Climbing Mt. Everest

alex73

Considering that about 5% who attempt Mt. Everest Die in the process (over 200 have died) Should a guy with small kids attempt the journey? I know life has its risks but is it irresponsable to risk your life and leave a family behind.

I would love to attempt Mt. Everest, but apart from the risk of death there is also a financial risk to my wife and kids because my Life insurance would not be paid out if I die on everest.

I don't want to comment on the story in the press today, poor guy, but it really is a calculated risk trying to reach the summit.

orourkeda

alex73 wrote: »

Considering that about 5% who attempt Mt. Everest Die in the process (over 200 have died) Should a guy with small kids attempt the journey? I know life has its risks but is it irresponsable to risk your life and leave a family behind.

I would love to attempt Mt. Everest, but apart from the risk of death there is also a financial risk to my wife and kids because my Life insurance would not be paid out if I die on everest.

I don't want to comment on the story in the press today, poor guy, but it really is a calculated risk trying to reach the summit.

He's dead.

How can this be a good decision

cml387

orourkeda wrote: »

He's dead.

How can this be a good decision

Who's dead?

Sparks43

Fair play to him for trying and may he rest in peace

cml387

Sparks43 wrote: »

Fair play to him for trying and may he rest in peace

Who,WHO?

That_Guy

cml387 wrote: »

Who's dead?

John Delaney... And not that John Delaney.

Sparks43

cml387 wrote: »

Who's dead?

An Irishman has died attempting to reach the summit of Mount Everest, days after his wife gave birth to a baby girl.
John Delaney, 41, from Kilcock in Co Kildare, is understood to have collapsed less than 50 metres from the top. He is the first Irish man to die on the world's highest mountain.
The climber, managing director of an online market prediction company, died on Saturday but because his team was out of contact it has only just been confirmed.
Mr Delaney - who also had two young sons - died without knowing his wife Orla gave birth to a baby girl last Wednesday.
Orla's brother Liam Hurley said she was planning to call the baby Hope.
'The one person who can describe him best is the one person who can't speak at the moment, and that's Orla,' said Mr Hurley.
'He was a generous, loving guy - the family came first for him.'
Mr Delaney and his wife were married five years ago. He had been mountaineering for several years and was attempting to conquer Everest after a failed attempt five years ago.
His body will remain on Everest because it would be too dangerous for the rest of his team to bring it back to base.
'He adored his two children, and he spent as much time as he could with them,' said a distraught Mr Hurley. 'It's just a shame he's not going to get to meet the third.'
He was originally from Ballinakill, Co Laois, where his mother still lives. He also leaves a brother and a sister.
Irish adventurer Pat Falvey, who knew Mr Delaney and has been in contact with Everest base camp about the tragedy, said it was the first Irish death on Everest.
'John was a passionate adventurer who loved challenge and mountains. He will be sadly missed by all his family and friends,' he said.
Mr Delaney was among a team of 18, including one US and six Russian climbers, eight Sherpas and two other guides.
They left a camp at 8,300 metres last Friday evening in a bid to scale the final section of the notorious peak.
After he got into difficulty, Sherpas helped Mr Delaney down the mountainside but attempts to resuscitate him failed.
Mr Delaney left for the expedition on 9 April.
It was separate from the team involving Mark Quinn, 26, who became the youngest Irish man to reach the Everest summit at the weekend.
Mr Hurley appealed for Mr Delaney's family to be given the privacy to deal with their grief.

.

_feedback_

Sad news, hadn't heard until this thread:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0524/delaneyj.html

Another young Irish man made it to the summit only a few days ago.

Yakult

Unless your an experienced climber don't do it.
Everest takes years of preparation and its your inexperience that will kill you if you dont prepare.

orourkeda

cml387 wrote: »

Who's dead?

The climber from Kilkenny whose wife recently gave birth. He died 50 metres from the summit of mount everest

Uncle Mclovin

It was a crazy decision to attempt Everest considering his wife was due.

It says on the RTE website that he didn't even know she gave birth.

It then follows up with a quote that he was a loving family man and that his family always came first. Madness.

alex73

Did not want the discussion to focus on the person. Rather on the general moral principle of taking this risk of Dying and leaving your family without a Father (and maybe without an income). Is it morally acceptable to try Mt. everest if you have 3 small kids?

hondasam

RIP it is a sad story.

_feedback_

alex73 wrote: »

Did not want the discussion to focus on the person. Rather on the general moral principle of taking this risk of Dying and leaving your family without a Father (and maybe without an income). Is it morally acceptable to try Mt. everest if you have 3 small kids?

It's a bit unavoidable really. .

RIP

cml387

It seems to me that it is a kind of tourist attraction now. Pay a "guide" an unfeasibly large sum of money and you too can climb everest (although I do note this guy R.I P. seems to have been an experienced mountaineer).

But I get scared on the top of a step ladder,so I'm hardly qualified to judge.

Quandary

alex73 wrote: »

Did not want the discussion to focus on the person. Rather on the general moral principle of taking this risk of Dying and leaving your family without a Father (and maybe without an income). Is it morally acceptable to try Mt. everest if you have 3 small kids?

I would say no.

However improbable, the possible effect of destroying 4 lives is just not worth it.

Sparks43

alex73 wrote: »

Did not want the discussion to focus on the person. Rather on the general moral principle of taking this risk of Dying and leaving your family without a Father (and maybe without an income). Is it morally acceptable to try Mt. everest if you have 3 small kids?

Yes it is acceptable imho

5% chance of death on the Mountain

Plenty of chances to die at home or even crossing a road

He took a risk and sadly lost his life but i have the height of respect for him for trying

hondasam

Uncle Mclovin wrote: »

It was a crazy decision to attempt Everest considering his wife was due.

It says on the RTE website that he didn't even know she gave birth.

It then follows up with a quote that he was a loving family man and that his family always came first. Madness.

alex73 wrote: »

Did not want the discussion to focus on the person. Rather on the general moral principle of taking this risk of Dying and leaving your family without a Father (and maybe without an income). Is it morally acceptable to try Mt. everest if you have 3 small kids?

It's not for us to criticise his decisions or his devotion to his family.

ejmaztec

cml387 wrote: »

It seems to me that it is a kind of tourist attraction now. Pay a "guide" an unfeasibly large sum of money and you too can climb everest (although I do note this guy R.I P. seems to have been an experienced mountaineer).

But I get scared on the top of a step ladder,so I'm hardly qualified to judge.

Did you plant a flag on it?

Deus Ex Machina

As William Wallace said, all men die, but few men really live. I think life is made of the risks we do and don't take, and I am not going to criticise him for taking this one.

My name is URL

If everyone had to make the choice between resigning to a quiet life with their families and taking chances, then we probably wouldn't be where we are today

alex73

hondasam wrote: »

It's not for us to criticise his decisions or his devotion to his family.

Ok, I am not focusing on the decision on the Person who died, but in general on the principle.

I planned to Climb Mt. Everest.. But my wife said if I did to not come home. She said it would be selfish of me to Risk my life. Apart from the fact it would cost me 25K to do it.

Maybe if I were single I would go for it. But to attempt it knowing you have a 5% chance of dying?...

Yes Life has risks, I could be run over by a car. But the chances are not 5%.

Absurdum

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

As William Wallace said, all men die, but few men really live.

Mel Gibson said that :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


but yeah, RIP to that guy and all, but it has to be said that climbing a big mountain shouldn't really be his main priority given that his missus was about to pop, then again who are we to tell him what to do

Quandary

My name is URL wrote: »

If everyone had to make the choice between resigning to a quiet life with their families and taking chances, then we probably wouldn't be where we are today

Agreed.

But taking chances, however small, with lives (in this case his/her family) other than your own is not acceptable imo. At the end of the day it is a selfish, indulgent endeavor to put your family through that kind of needless worry.

hondasam

alex73 wrote: »

Ok, I am not focusing on the decision on the Person who died, but in general on the principle.

I planned to Climb Mt. Everest.. But my wife said if I did to not come home. She said it would be selfish of me to Risk my life. Apart from the fact it would cost me 25K to do it.

Maybe if I were single I would go for it. But to attempt it knowing you have a 5% chance of dying?...

Yes Life has risks, I could be run over by a car. But the chances are not 5%.

I don't think it's selfish to want to fulfil a dream,life is full of difficult choices.

you will probably always regret not doing it.

alex73

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think it's selfish to want to fulfil a dream,life is full of difficult choices.

you will probably always regret not doing it.

I do regret it. Would be great. But then again reading the news today I think (for me) its better I put my family before my dreams? Anyway I could not find an insurer in Ireland who would cover my life insurance if I died on Everest.

Kevin Duffy

Apart from high-altitude tourists, people who go to Chomolungma have most likely already been mountaineering for quite a while, faced these decisions many times and have already made their mind up about what they want to pursue.

Is it irresponsible to carry on after you have a family? Maybe.
If you know someone is a serious mountaineer and has their sights on this, or similar targets, is it assuming a risk to have a family with them? Maybe so.
Personally, as a fairy serious climber, I made my choice not to have a family long ago, not that that's a criticism of anyone who does otherwise and I don't know that my choice was right either now that I'm older.

If you're interested in this, it may be worth reading Regions Of The Heart, it's about Alison Hargreaves, who went through all this as a wife, mother and mountaineer. She faced (unfairly IMO) more criticism than men in the same situation. It's a pretty broad, deep, well written analysis, of her as a climber and as a wife and mother.

tightropetom

alex73 wrote: »

Considering that about 5% who attempt Mt. Everest Die in the process (over 200 have died) Should a guy with small kids attempt the journey? I know life has its risks but is it irresponsable to risk your life and leave a family behind. t.

Um, how is 200 fatalities equal to 5% of over 11,000 attempts? Your numbers are a bit flawed there buddy. There have been 4000-ish succesful ascents. But not everyone who dies has died in a sucessful ascent.

Sparks43

So going by the people who say its not allowable to take risks when you have a young family then people with kids shouldnt head out to Sea to make a living/Shouldnt be Firemen or any other occupation that has inherent risks

Oranage2

Life is for living - so yes right to try it - with 5% chance of death is not really that much of a selfish risk

Whats the point spending all you life on a sofa?

tragic all the same though

alex73

Sparks43 wrote: »

So going by the people who say its not allowable to take risks when you have a young family then people with kids shouldnt head out to Sea to make a living/Shouldnt be Firemen or any other occupation that has inherent risks

Yes, But a Firemen has life insurance.. Has anyone see the quote for life insurance when trying to climb everest?

Uncle Mclovin

Uncle Mclovin wrote: »

It was a crazy decision to attempt Everest considering his wife was due.

It says on the RTE website that he didn't even know she gave birth.

It then follows up with a quote that he was a loving family man and that his family always came first. Madness.

Couldn't have put it better myself

Sparks43

alex73 wrote: »

Yes, But a Firemen has life insurance.. Has anyone see the quote for life insurance when trying to climb everest?

Id say the quote would be sky high alright

the culture of deference

If my wife was 7 months pregnant nothing would drag me away.

He went two months ago, yes he was doing something he loved but I am sure he loved his 2 kids and wife more.

Its sad but he made the choice and his family have to live with his selfishness.

tightropetom

OP where did you get the 5% statistic from? It is way wide of the mark. More than 11,000 attempts on Everest have been made

Kevin Duffy

tightropetom wrote: »

But not everyone who dies has died in a sucessful ascent.

I would say that by definition, a death on the mountain is an unsuccessful attempt, going up or coming down.

tightropetom

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I would say that by definition, a death on the mountain is an unsuccessful attempt, going up or coming down.

Exactly - therefore the 'chances' of death are much much less than the OP would have us believe

Blitzkrieger

alex73 wrote: »

Apart from the fact it would cost me 25K to do it.
Yes Life has risks, I could be run over by a car. But the chances are not 5%.

I'd say it would cost a lot more than 25k for an attempt. And keep in mind you'd have to do lots of training and preparation, and of course, may need to make more than one attempt.

I don't know about the moral aspects tbh. I mean, if you've a family at home, that's going to affect how you assess risks. If you're told that conditions are a bit iffy you're going to turn back straight away. There's always the chance that something completely unexpected will go wrong, but for an experienced, well prepared climber with a competent experienced team, the odds of not coming back have to be less than 1%.

I'd weigh that up against the consequences of the kids having a dad without the balls and the drive to follow a dream.


I was thinking about climbing Everest myself. Even a preliminary costing killed the idea for me. Maybe if I win the lotto....

alex73

tightropetom wrote: »

Exactly - therefore the 'chances' of death are much much less than the OP would have us believe

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060824222248.htm

Oranage2

alex73 wrote: »

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060824222248.htm

thats success:death ratio

http://www.adventurestats.com/tables/EverestAgeFat.shtml

are some facts to say 2.something chance

alex73

alex73 wrote: »

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060824222248.htm

The death rate on Mount Everest has not changed over the years, with about one death for every 10 successful ascents. For anyone who reaches the summit, they have about a 1 in 20 chance of not making it down again.
So why are there so many people dying on Mount Everest?

There seems to be either an over statement over what constitutes an attempt or different ways of recording deaths/attempts.

Azureus

I love adventure and admire anybody who has the experience and training neccesary that attempts climbing Everest. If successful it would be the experience of a lifetime, and even if unsuccessful (and not resulting in death) then it would be almost as memorable. Life is for living as they say, and I would rather that risk than playing it safe and wrapping yourself up in bubble wrap. I also think it would be worth the financial cost if you reckon you could do it and have dedicated the time over years to prepare

However, if you attempt something like that without the training and experience then your an eejit. If you attempt something like that, experienced or otherwise, with a family who is dependent on you (financially/emotionally-it doesnt matter) then you are very inconsiderate. I dont want to get into specifics about the case being referred to here but a family man to not be there for your childs birth isnt the best planning in the world.

Dravokivich

alex73 wrote: »

Considering that about 5% who attempt Mt. Everest Die in the process (over 200 have died) Should a guy with small kids attempt the journey?

Couldn't get a Sherpa no?

Oranage2

Azureus wrote: »

I love adventure and admire anybody who has the experience and training neccesary that attempts climbing Everest. If successful it would be the experience of a lifetime, and even if unsuccessful (and not resulting in death) then it would be almost as memorable. Life is for living as they say, and I would rather that risk than playing it safe and wrapping yourself up in bubble wrap. I also think it would be worth the financial cost if you reckon you could do it and have dedicated the time over years to prepare

However, if you attempt something like that without the training and experience then your an eejit. If you attempt something like that, experienced or otherwise, with a family who is dependent on you (financially/emotionally-it doesnt matter) then you are very inconsiderate. I dont want to get into specifics about the case being referred to here but a family man to not be there for your childs birth isnt the best planning in the world.

would you like a hand off that fence ?

harry21

I think he (or you the OP) would be right to do it if it means that much to you (It wouldn't to me). Also, personally, I think the timing of the climb was inappropiate given the situation on his family life.

We shouldn't really judge though... we don't have all the details.

RIP Mr. Delaney

hondasam

Azureus wrote: »

I love adventure and admire anybody who has the experience and training neccesary that attempts climbing Everest. If successful it would be the experience of a lifetime, and even if unsuccessful (and not resulting in death) then it would be almost as memorable. Life is for living as they say, and I would rather that risk than playing it safe and wrapping yourself up in bubble wrap. I also think it would be worth the financial cost if you reckon you could do it and have dedicated the time over years to prepare

However, if you attempt something like that without the training and experience then your an eejit. If you attempt something like that, experienced or otherwise, with a family who is dependent on you (financially/emotionally-it doesnt matter) then you are very inconsiderate. I dont want to get into specifics about the case being referred to here but a family man to not be there for your childs birth isnt the best planning in the world.

He had been mountaineering for several years and was attempting to conquer Everest after a failed attempt five years ago.

Not all men are present when their children are born, this does not mean they are inconsiderate.

harry21

hondasam wrote: »

[/B]

Not all men are present when their children are born, this does not mean they are inconsiderate.

I agree. My future wife says I wont be allowed near the place when the kids are born. Fine with me.... her choice as I see it.

But what if something went wrong during child-birth. Thats the kind of thing you want to be close for.. just incase??

damoz

harry21 wrote: »

I agree. My future wife says I wont be allowed near the place when the kids are born. Fine with me.... her choice as I see it.
?

sorry to drag off topic - but you should have a choice here too. it is a moment in life not to be missed.

I should add - RIP to the climber today. I dont agree he should have been there at this time in his family life, but i wont criticise someone to follow a dream either. Just tragic timing.

thebigbiffo

i had the pleasure of meeting Sean McGowan last year, more info here.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfkfididkfsn/rss2/

he sailed solo across the atlantic and was close to death on many an occasion. now this guy was one of the bravest, smartest and most articulate fellows i've ever had the pleasure to meet and i immediately liked him...the problem is that he had 3 (i think) young kids and a wife at home. at one stage, he even called her from his satellite phone to say goodbye.

now i've got a huge amount of respect for pioneers, adventurers etc especially down through history. the problem is there's no longer a huge need to push the boundaries like this - these days it's a very personal, selfish, ego driven decision to go through something like this just to 'prove' something to yourself.

as far as i'm concerned, when you've got dependents, putting yourself deliberately in a situation like this is ego driven self absorbtion at it's worst and is unforgiveable.

but that's just me...

hondasam

harry21 wrote: »

But what if something went wrong during child-birth. Thats the kind of thing you want to be close for.. just incase??

If anything goes wrong you can't do anything anyway, that's what doctors are for. men who work away from home cannot always be there for different reasons.

kc83

Oh my God, I seriously got a heart failure, my heart actually stopped when you said man died today as my friend Mark just reached the top on Sat.
Obviously still very sad news.
You can see marks training on line if you google mark Quinn Limerick. He trained for two years.
He has no kids though so diff circumstances.