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Japanese earthquake / tsunami discussion

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    #4952
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Coles wrote: »
    Here's a really excellent update on the situation .

    This is worth reposting, I watched it after your post a couple of days ago.

    "70R an hour, basically a few hours and you're dead"


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    #4953
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,503 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Remember this thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056206691

    The numbers are now in - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13388370 It seems that (as expected by most on that thread ^^^) the numbers were waaaaay off.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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    #4954
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    andrew wrote: »
    Here's some good news about Fukushima: After being hit by a huge Tsunami one of the biggest earthquakes ever, and several powerful explosions, a 40 year old nuclear power station has held up sufficiently that nobody has died from radiation. In fact, only 2 people have suffered from doses high enough to warrant a hospital visit. I'd count that as good news. But news outlets tend not to write stories about how everything is ok, since it's not very interesting. And if they did, they'd probably be accused of 'downplaying' the disaster.
    And here is the bad news about Fukushima, Nuclear related cancer illnesses do not appear over night and can linger on for generations to come. Not alone that any land within 30KM surrounding the power plant will be rendered a nuclear wasteland and no one in their right mind will want to live there.

    Tepco to cover damaged Fukushima reactors with useless polyester tents.

    "In a demonstration of the company's shocking ignorance concerning the nature of radioactive particles, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has announced that it is going to place large polyester domes -- yes, you read that right -- around the damaged reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in an alleged attempt to help contain radioactive particles. The polyester domes will begin appearing next month, and all are expected to be in place by the end of the year, say reports"

    http://www.naturalnews.com/032400_Fukushima_tents.html

    I am not generally in favour of international or global organizations taking over in emergency situations but in this instance Tepco, need a kick in the ass and someone that knows what they are doing need to take over. The Russians 25 years ago did a better job at disclosing the seriousness of Chernobyl after it was exposed and then doing something about it.


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    #4955
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    And here is the bad news about Fukushima, Nuclear related cancer illnesses do not appear over night and can linger on for generations to come. Not alone that any land within 30KM surrounding the power plant will be rendered a nuclear wasteland and no one in their right mind will want to live there.

    Well, obviously there's bad news. Nuclear wasteland? Got any proof for that? Or are you just assuming that any radiation release automatically turns a place into a nuclear wasteland?
    Tepco to cover damaged Fukushima reactors with useless polyester tents.

    "In a demonstration of the company's shocking ignorance concerning the nature of radioactive particles, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has announced that it is going to place large polyester domes -- yes, you read that right -- around the damaged reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in an alleged attempt to help contain radioactive particles. The polyester domes will begin appearing next month, and all are expected to be in place by the end of the year, say reports"

    http://www.naturalnews.com/032400_Fukushima_tents.html

    Useless? Another assertion. That article just says they're useless without explaining why.
    I am not generally in favour of international or global organizations taking over in emergency situations but in this instance Tepco, need a kick in the ass and someone that knows what they are doing need to take over. The Russians 25 years ago did a better job at disclosing the seriousness of Chernobyl after it was exposed and then doing something about it.

    No they didn't. They told no one about it, and then begrudgingly disclosed information because it got a bit obvious that something was happening. In comparison, with this disaster you can find online the results of numerous radiation tests carried out on land, in the sea, and in food; there's a constant stream of information. So any comparison between the information released in this event and during Chernobyl is silly and ridiculous.


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    #4956
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The polyester domes will begin appearing The Russians 25 years ago did a better job at disclosing the seriousness of Chernobyl after it was exposed and then doing something about it.

    I'd suggest it's just to cover the reactors so TV and other media won't be constantly reminded of the disaster.


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    #4957
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    gbee wrote: »
    I'd suggest it's just to cover the reactors so TV and other media won't be constantly reminded of the disaster.
    In otherwords a sticking plaster.


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    #4958
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    In otherwords a sticking plaster.

    Is there anything that TEPCO could do, at this stage, that you'd think was positive?


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    #4959
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    andrew wrote: »
    Is there anything that TEPCO could do, at this stage, that you'd think was positive?
    Yes, admit their defeat on the situation and get some international body in to take over. Someone that can reveal the truth of the situation and not cover up issues.


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    #4960
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Yes, admit their defeat on the situation and get some international body in to take over. Someone that can reveal the truth of the situation and not cover up issues.

    Which international body exactly?


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    #4961
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    andrew wrote: »
    Which international body exactly?
    How about an international body that has no financial interest in the outcome? What about an international response team that uses the resources, experience and expertise of Russia, China, the UK, France and the USA?

    It's certainly getting a bit late in the day now, but there's no way of knowing how much more serious this crisis could get or how much longer it could go on for.


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    #4962
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Coles wrote: »
    How about an international body that has no financial interest in the outcome? What about an international response team that uses the resources, experience and expertise of Russia, China, the UK, France and the USA?

    It's certainly getting a bit late in the day now, but there's no way of knowing how much more serious this crisis could get or how much longer it could go on for.

    So you'll only be happy if an international non-partisan body qualified to handle the situation is conjured up, and TEPCO, the people who have the best information about the nuclear plant in question, are left completely out of the picture. Wishful thinking, no? Such a team could be a good thing, but you're wishing for something which is nearly impossible to create in practice. Most people who know a lot about nuclear energy tend to have some sort of financial link to nuclear energy. And what would this team do differently? It's not like there's a magic wand the japanese aren't using; if there was, they would've used it.

    So in response to my question, you may as well have said 'nothing.' There's nothing TEPCO can do to satisfy you. You will automatically be critical of everything that is done.

    Also, your view of financial incentives is hypocritical. You constantly post Fairewinds stuff, from someone who has a financial motive in litigating against nuclear accidents. Yet you demand a team to deal with this who has no financial interest in the outcome. When it suits you, you ignore the financial incentives under which people operate.

    And since TEPCO are the only ones with a financial interest in getting this situation under control, aren't they the one's with the strongest incentive to clean up this accident? What's wrong with their financial incentive.


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    #4963
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    Good news! You Can Stop Worrying about a Radiation Release - Here's Why. -BusinessInsider (13th March 2011)
    It would be comical if it wasn't so serious.


    More good news! Japan Reactor Not to Release More Radiation, TEPCO says. (20th March 2011)
    Tokyo Electric Power Corp (TEPCO), the operator of the plant in Fukushima, said it would not need to relieve the pressure of the containment vessel at reactor 3 at the plant, damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami that rocked the region.
    And why didn't they need to release the pressure? Because there was no pressure! There was already a hole in the containment vessel! Genius!


    EneNews is becoming an excellent source for information about what's happening at Fukushima. Everything is referenced and linked to the source. Very up to date.


    @Andrew. Stop trolling -it's boring.


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    #4964
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Coles wrote: »
    @Andrew. Stop trolling -it's boring.

    Well reasoned and logical arguments are not trolling. Implying they are is trolling.


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    #4965
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Coles wrote: »
    Good news! You Can Stop Worrying about a Radiation Release - Here's Why. -BusinessInsider (13th March 2011)
    It would be comical if it wasn't so serious.


    More good news! Japan Reactor Not to Release More Radiation, TEPCO says. (20th March 2011)

    And why didn't they need to release the pressure? Because there was no pressure! There was already a hole in the containment vessel! Genius!


    EneNews is becoming an excellent source for information about what's happening at Fukushima. Everything is referenced and linked to the source. Very up to date.


    @Andrew. Stop trolling -it's boring.

    As per the charter, if you think I'm trolling, report me to the mods. I assure you I'm not trolling. It would appear you've just run out of viable counter arguments is all, so you've resorted to thinking I'm trolling/accusing me of such, rather than accepting the truth in what I'm saying.


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    #4966
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Well reasoned and logical arguments are not trolling. Implying they are is trolling.
    How about we stick to the topic? Post some relevant information or don't bother.

    @Andrew. This thread is not about me. Stop attacking me and stay on topic.


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    #4967
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    Another excellent up-to-date source of information about the Fukushima disaster. The Ex-SKF Blog. Again everything is referenced and sources are linked.

    Anyone else got any good sources? Post them up.


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    #4968
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    The TEPCO Press Room. Press releases etc. They're all there. Very interesting to read through the older ones, particularly with the information that is coming to light now.


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    #4969
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    The IAEA Fukushima Update Log. Loads of information.


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    #4970
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    And the best source of information of them all, Fairewinds.

    Here's a link to the RPII (Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland). They have a good section on the Japanese disaster including links to radiation monitoring data. There really doesn't appear to be any reason for concern in Ireland yet. The longer the disaster continues, that might change.


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    #4971
    Statistician
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Statistician


    Does anyone know what is happening to the fuel in unit 1?

    Fairewinds say that it has melted and is now at the bottom of the primary containment chamber. The 13 March business insider article (a few posts above) states that
    Because at the end of the day, if cooling cannot be restored, the core will eventually melt (after hours or days), and the last line of defense, the core catcher and third containment, would come into play.

    So has the fuel reached the third containment and has safely spread out, or is it melting through this (in an unsafe ball), towards the water table where a steam explosion could happen?


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    #4972
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    Statistician wrote: »
    Does anyone know what is happening to the fuel in unit 1?

    Fairewinds say that it has melted and is now at the bottom of the primary containment chamber.

    So has the fuel reached the third containment and has safely spread out, or is it melting through this (in an unsafe ball), towards the water table where a steam explosion could happen?
    Here's some information on it. EneNews Article
    Tepco separately released its analysis on the timeline of the meltdown at unit No. 1. According to the analysis, the reactor core, or the nuclear fuel, was exposed to the air within five hours after the plant was struck by the earthquake. The temperature inside the core reached 2,800 degrees Celsius in six hours, causing the fuel pellets to melt away rapidly.

    Within 16 hours, the reactor core melted, dropped to the bottom of the pressure vessel and created a hole there.

    I have no idea what happens next.


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    #4973
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    Coles wrote: »
    How about we stick to the topic? Post some relevant information or don't bother.

    @Andrew. This thread is not about me. Stop attacking me and stay on topic.
    okay, so just so everyones clear, anything Coles doesn't agree with = irrelevent and anyone posting anything questioning Coles = a troll because he says so. :rolleyes:

    oh, and according to our new self proclaimed freshly unbanned thread mod, everyone has to post something relevant or not bother at all.

    ooh look, here's some nice relevant info on a potential new law in Japan to help compensate the people of the Fukushima prefecture for what has happened there.
    Prime Minister Naoto Kan has told the governor of Fukushima Prefecture that the government will consider enacting special laws on compensating people affected by the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

    Fukushima Governor Yuhei Sato met Kan at the prime minister's office in Tokyo on Saturday.

    Sato said the meltdown at the No.1 reactor was finally made clear 64 days after the nuclear accident. He called on the central government to bring the situation under control as quickly as possible.

    The governor also said the government should handle the compensation issue in a responsible manner by enacting special laws, which would back efforts to help nearby residents and rebuild the local economy.

    Kan replied that the government will do all it can to end the crisis and hinted at the possibility of enacting special laws on compensation payments.

    The Fukushima governor later told reporters that the leakage of radioactive substances into the air and sea is very troubling, and that he had called on the government to more tightly control the plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power


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    #4974
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    @vibe666. You haven't made a single contribution yet that wasn't about me. I'm flattered by the attention, but it's a little weird. I'm a married man, and anyway, that's not my scene.

    Let's just stick to the topic, eh?


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    #4975
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Coles, Please don't carry on like you did before.

    Any more sniping will lead to bans. Please report posts you object to.


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    #4976
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    Excellent thread on Politics.ie for anyone who is actually interested in what is happening at Fukushima.


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    #4977
    Solnskaya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Solnskaya


    Anyone know what's the story with Japan since the quake,tsunami, fukushima etc??. It has dropped out of the news totally, is it all better? (I doubt it cos a few companies I deal with can't get any spares/new supplies from factories in Japan which are still devastated. So, anyone know what's the story, and why it's not a story anymore??


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    #4978
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Merged.


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    #4979
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    A group of pensioners have volunteered to help in the surrounding areas so that young people don't have to.


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    #4980
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,383 ✭✭✭cml387


    Solnskaya wrote: »
    Anyone know what's the story with Japan since the quake,tsunami, fukushima etc??. It has dropped out of the news totally, is it all better? (I doubt it cos a few companies I deal with can't get any spares/new supplies from factories in Japan which are still devastated. So, anyone know what's the story, and why it's not a story anymore??


    Funny,someone asked me the same thing today.
    Just because a news story has moved off the front page,we somehow assume that now everything is "alright".

    Japan is still devastated,the nuclear plants are still leaking radioactivity and are offline.The damage has not suddenly been cleared away.
    By the way Ghadaffi is still in charge in Libya,they're still fighting in Afghanistan,and people are still starving in Afica.


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    #4981
    Solnskaya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Solnskaya


    Hmmm, bit strange how an unfolding nuclear disaster does not warrant one single mention in the Irish media lately. Would the fact that GE built the plant and GE have huge media influence have anything to do with it, or do the powers that be just not want to scare the horses?


This discussion has been closed.
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