B.C.L v L.L.B

dienbienphu · 18-05-2011 01:23PM #1

Hi,
I was just wondering whether an L.L.B in Law is more valuable than a B.C.L? Our lecturer told us if we undertook an L.L.B. degree we could almost guarantee ourselves a lucrative job at the end of it. The L.L.B is 1 year longer than the BCL but Im unsure whether it would be worth doing.

jacko1 · 18-05-2011 02:28PM

absolutely no difference - LLB (Legum Baccalaureus) is effectively the latin for BCL.

Law firms are more interested in the quality of the law school that you attended rather than whether your degree is in English or latin.

As a rule of thumb the top law firms recruit primarily from the traditional university law degrees . in rank order these are generally perceived as being

TCD
UCC
UCD
NUIG
UL

They have no real interest in people from the GCD / Portobello background

Within the University sector there is now more demand for Law + degrees

-Law& French
-Law & Economics
-Law (International)
-Law (Clinical)

etc

beeftotheheels · 18-05-2011 02:53PM

Outside Ireland LLB is probably a better known standard.

BCL can be confused with the Oxford BCL which is one of the most prestigious masters law degrees in law in the world so if you're ever applying outside Ireland make sure no one makes that mistake!

dienbienphu · 18-05-2011 03:31PM

thanks for the replies. it says on the UCC website that the L.L.B. is a post graduate option. so if one finishes with a BCL i take it they can take 1 further year of study to obtain the LLB if they need it?

18-05-2011 05:20PM

dienbienphu wrote: »

Our lecturer told us if we undertook an L.L.B. degree we could almost guarantee ourselves a lucrative job at the end of it.

Your lecturer is living a complete fantasy.

dienbienphu · 18-05-2011 07:06PM

234 wrote: »

Your lecturer is living a complete fantasy.

well its either that or he is trying to boost the prestige of the law school by creating the LLB programme.
i dont see any reason why you would spend another year doing an LLB because you can pretty much sit the kings inn and the fe1s with a BCL.

FreudianSlippers · 18-05-2011 07:27PM

dienbienphu wrote: »

well its either that or he is trying to boost the prestige of the law school by creating the LLB programme.
i dont see any reason why you would spend another year doing an LLB because you can pretty much sit the kings inn and the fe1s with a BCL.

Once your degree is King's Inns approved that is.

dienbienphu · 18-05-2011 07:28PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Once your degree is King's Inns approved that is.

it is

johnnyskeleton · 18-05-2011 07:30PM

jacko1 wrote: »

TCD
UCC
UCD
NUIG
UL

Without getting into Trinity vs UCD which is a whole other pointless endeavour, why out of curiosity do you rank UCC over UCD? Is there a logic to it or are you a UCC grad?

FreudianSlippers · 18-05-2011 07:34PM

I also wouldn't say they have no interest in GCD students necessarily. But I don't know anything really about getting a job at a solicitors firm.

I would imagine it wouldn't make any difference if you were just applying for a job in house.

almostnever · 18-05-2011 08:02PM

Is there actually anything to that perception that the big firms prefer graduates from certain colleges? I always thought it was something of a myth but a lot of people in my year think it rings true.

dienbienphu · 18-05-2011 08:17PM

almostnever wrote: »

Is there actually anything to that perception that the big firms prefer graduates from certain colleges? I always thought it was something of a myth but a lot of people in my year think it rings true.

its bull. i know of a guy who got an internship with matheson ormsby and prentice and we're ranked at the bottom of law schools

18-05-2011 10:21PM

dienbienphu wrote: »

well its either that or he is trying to boost the prestige of the law school by creating the LLB programme.
i dont see any reason why you would spend another year doing an LLB because you can pretty much sit the kings inn and the fe1s with a BCL.

Absolutely. I wonder what your lecturer would say these lucrative jobs were when questioned? He of all people would know that a LLB or any other law degree qualifies you for nothing.

ananas · 18-05-2011 10:46PM

jacko1 wrote: »

absolutely no difference - LLB (Legum Baccalaureus) is effectively the latin for BCL.

Law firms are more interested in the quality of the law school that you attended rather than whether your degree is in English or latin.

As a rule of thumb the top law firms recruit primarily from the traditional university law degrees . in rank order these are generally perceived as being

TCD
UCC
UCD
NUIG
UL

They have no real interest in people from the GCD / Portobello background

Within the University sector there is now more demand for Law + degrees

-Law& French
-Law & Economics
-Law (International)
-Law (Clinical)

etc

I'd love to hear where you have gotten your statistics from.

beeftotheheels · 19-05-2011 10:49AM

almostnever wrote: »

Is there actually anything to that perception that the big firms prefer graduates from certain colleges? I always thought it was something of a myth but a lot of people in my year think it rings true.

I don't think it is entirely simple as you have to remember that when it comes to selecting candidates for interview, or offering jobs from interview, the process involves human beings acting within certain guidelines.

So, if the person choosing applicants for interview/ interviewer has 500+ points and a degree from a redbrick institution, the chances are that they are going to show some preference for candidates with 500+ points and a degree from a redbrick institution.

If that individual came into the profession through a circuitous route, then they may show a slight preference towards candidates with a similar background.

I suspect that once you get to interview stage it is less important, but at application stage all the person assessing the application knows about you is what is on the piece of paper in front of them, and points and course studied are going to factor in that if nothing else separates two applicants.

jacko1 · 19-05-2011 10:50AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Without getting into Trinity vs UCD which is a whole other pointless endeavour, why out of curiosity do you rank UCC over UCD? Is there a logic to it or are you a UCC grad?

UCC research output is very high in recent years - leading the way in areas such as child law, human rights, environmental, eu, medical law etc

ViP3r · 19-05-2011 12:01PM

I'm doing a BA Hons in Law in IT carlow. The degree is effectively an LLB. It's overseen by nui, covers all the usual stuff and we have fairly high examination standards. When I say high standards, it's because of 3 hour exams without statute books ( Excluding EU ). Apparently the higher standard is to do with the kings inns imposing them on the course as a condition for recognition.

Kosseegan · 19-05-2011 12:27PM

dienbienphu wrote: »

i dont see any reason why you would spend another year doing an LLB because you can pretty much sit the kings inn and the fe1s with a BCL.

Why do a degree at all then? It often helps in practise to have had further academic training and more specialised knowledge of some areas than a general degree will provide.

johnnyskeleton · 20-05-2011 01:17AM

jacko1 wrote: »

UCC research output is very high in recent years - leading the way in areas such as child law, human rights, environmental, eu, medical law etc

Assuming for the moment that that is true and that solicitors care about academic research, what makes you think that solicitors believe students at UCC recieve a better education than those in other universities because of the academic research that, largely, will not come close to the undergraduates?

FreudianSlippers · 20-05-2011 09:54AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Assuming for the moment that that is true and that solicitors care about academic research, what makes you think that solicitors believe students at UCC recieve a better education than those in other universities because of the academic research that, largely, will not come close to the undergraduates?

I have to agree here. Are we talking about professional "lawyers" or academics?

Honestly in the King's Inns I don't think it matters if you went to toilet paper folding academy once you do the dip and pass the exams.
I'd imagine it's different for Solicitors because you are put in an interview situation.

For research and academics, your undergraduate is nowhere near as important as your postgraduate IMO.

drkpower · 20-05-2011 01:46PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Honestly in the King's Inns I don't think it matters if you went to toilet paper folding academy once you do the dip and pass the exams.
I'd imagine it's different for Solicitors because you are put in an interview situation.

Nah, its much the same for solicitors unless you happen to be vetted/interviewed by someone with an irrational prejudice for/against a particular institution.

Noone cares where you went to uni; they will care (to a degree) what results you got; what they care about most is what type of person you are and what kind of interest/aptitude/potential you show in the particular area of law they are looking for.

College wars end in the college bar. They dont exist in real life.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 21-05-2011 12:14AM

dienbienphu wrote: »

its bull. i know of a guy who got an internship with matheson ormsby and prentice and we're ranked at the bottom of law schools

Any chance you're in Maynooth?

They're trying to push the LLB there as it's a new degree. Although if I had had the chance to do it I would have gone for it as opposed to Law and Arts!

And the MOP internship was exclusive to Maynooth so thats why he got it. I got the other one :P
Not that that that completely proves the certain colleges get picked theory but you can't use him as an example :P

Arsenal1986 · 21-05-2011 04:42AM

Defo UCD above UCC as regards law firms perceptions of law schools, its not even close! I'm not a graduate of either so not biased!

dienbienphu · 21-05-2011 01:28PM

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Any chance you're in Maynooth?

They're trying to push the LLB there as it's a new degree. Although if I had had the chance to do it I would have gone for it as opposed to Law and Arts!

And the MOP internship was exclusive to Maynooth so thats why he got it. I got the other one :P
Not that that that completely proves the certain colleges get picked theory but you can't use him as an example :P

ya maynooth. oh really, i didnt know that. in that case, the law department must have friends in high places!

as from what i can see from this thread, theres no point doing another year. the reason i wouldnt is because im a mature student so time is of the essence if you know what i mean! i need to get the ball rolling as fast as i can

drkpower · 21-05-2011 01:59PM

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

Defo UCD above UCC as regards law firms perceptions of law schools, its not even close! I'm not a graduate of either so not biased!

But you are still wrong. Law firms dont care what law school you went too. In many cases they dont even care whether you went to law school at all!

lawladdie · 21-05-2011 02:38PM

jacko1 wrote: »

UCC research output is very high in recent years - leading the way in areas such as child law, human rights, environmental, eu, medical law etc

I think all the law schools including Cork are doing good research but that looks like you've been reading too many UCC press releases!

I would have thought Geoffrey Shannon was the child law guru for example - he does all the important reports, heads up all the govt policy stuff and his book seems highly rated

http://www.ialt.ie/about-us/prizes-competitions/book-prize/

And I think other schools would rank ahead of Cork in some of the areas you mention - Trinity for environmental, Galway for human rights and UCD for eu.

Arsenal1986 · 21-05-2011 05:45PM

I would agree that it doesnt seem to be a big factor for Law firms but it is certainly a factor, and the perception would generally be UCD over UCC.

drkpower · 21-05-2011 10:22PM

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

I would agree that it doesnt seem to be a big factor for Law firms but it is certainly a factor, and the perception would generally be UCD over UCC.

No; it is not even a factor.

The colour of your shoes is as much a factor as a particular university to those who vet & interview potential trainees.

johnnyskeleton · 22-05-2011 10:59AM

drkpower wrote: »

No; it is not even a factor.

The colour of your shoes is as much a factor as a particular university to those who vet & interview potential trainees.

While you do have a point that for many if not most solicitors it is irrelevant, I don't think you can say that it is not relevant to every single solicitors firm.

Apart from anything else, don't the big firms do milk rounds in the major universities, suggesting that they do have a preference for the larger institutions?

drkpower · 22-05-2011 12:13PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

While you do have a point that for many if not most solicitors it is irrelevant, I don't think you can say that it is not relevant to every single solicitors firm.

Apart from anything else, don't the big firms do milk rounds in the major universities, suggesting that they do have a preference for the larger institutions?

Well, sure, there may be a small firm in Muff who are all for UCC grads.....:p

Big firms doing milk rounds in the big unis is simply about efficiency; a firm can get its message out to many potential trainees without wasting too many man hours. Does the fact that big firms dont do milk rounds in Harvard suggest they would not prefer a Harvard graduate over a UCC grad?

Listen, i dont doubt that there are some solicitors out there who will (perhaps subconciously) rank a candidate higher becasuse of where their degree is from. However, for the vast majority of solicitors and particularly the larger firms, the institution from where you got your degree is so minor a factor that it is negligible.

LadyLily · 22-05-2011 03:09PM

To reassure people out there, I did my degree in UL supposedly the "bottom" according to previous posts, I got both an internship and training contract in one of the Top 5 on first try...As anyone who has been in any of these firms knows, there is a mix from all the universities, so do not be turned off by hearsay:)

B.C.L v L.L.B

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