And we thought our Justice system was bad

kfallon · 17-05-2011 07:49PM #1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387341/Serial-burglar-Nathan-Cassidy-free-judge-accepts-OCD-make-jail-traumatic.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Did he clean up the mess after he smashed in the windows? :rolleyes:

In before "wiping the slate clean" jokes!

orourkeda · 17-05-2011 07:51PM

I see he's into wiping peoples eye too

AckwelFoley · 17-05-2011 07:51PM

He would be passed around the jail shower room like a bong at a hippy party

biko · 17-05-2011 07:52PM

content

Burglar with a cleanliness obsession is spared jail... because he'd find it too dirty
Walking free: Criminal Nathan Cassidy who escaped a prison sentence for burglary when a judge was persuaded his OCD would make jail unbearable for him

He's got a string of previous convictions as long as your arm. But crime isn’t Nathan Cassidy’s only compulsion.
The serial burglar has an obsession with cleanliness – and that condition has helped keep him out of prison.
The 20-year-old was allowed to walk free from court after he told a judge he would find jail ‘too traumatic’ because of his obsessive compulsive disorder.
Cassidy smashed his way into an elderly couple’s home while they were sleeping and stole a handbag containing £105.
The thief, who has 14 previous convictions for 29 crimes, committed the burglary while on a suspended sentence for robbery and handling stolen goods.
However, he avoided jail by convincing Cambridge Crown Court he would not be able to cope with life behind bars because he is obsessed with cleanliness.
Instead Judge Gareth Hawkesworth handed Cassidy, of Cambridge, a 12-month sentence in a young offenders’ institution, suspended for two years.

Saila · 17-05-2011 07:53PM

fair play

kfallon · 17-05-2011 07:53PM

prinz · 17-05-2011 07:55PM

FFS, why didn't they stick him in prison and see then how he was. :mad:

Naikon · 17-05-2011 07:59PM

Taking responsibility for your own actions is percieved as a stupid move these days. **** the OCD excuse. This guy is a thief. Honesty won't get you very far anymore as far as I can tell. Bloody Psychiatrists

Oranage2 · 17-05-2011 08:01PM

Do the crime, do the grime!

Ciaran_B · 17-05-2011 08:03PM

You might say he made

<puts on sunglasses>

a clean getaway.

YEEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Raging_Ninja · 17-05-2011 08:03PM

It could be seen as mental torture, cruel and unusual.

I'm conflicted. Punishment is important, but rehabilitation is more so.

You don't want minor criminals to become brutalized in prison and come out ten times worse than when they went in. A prison sentence could have led to it, if it didn't break the kid entirely and he committed suicide.

Naikon · 17-05-2011 08:07PM

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

It could be seen as mental torture, cruel and unusual. I'm conflicted. Punishment is important, but rehabilitation is more so. You don't want minor criminals to become brutalized in prison and come out ten times worse than when they went in, and I think this could have led to it, if it didn't break the kid entirely and he committed suicide.

The string of previous convictions does not help his case, mind you. "OCD" is NOT an excuse to justify stealing from old people for instance. It riles me that Psychiatrists can use "OCD" or whatever fancy term to potentially explain certain conduct. Had this guy been beaten to within an inch of his life by an abusive father, maybe I would agree. "OCD" has nothing to do with stealing. Even if the condition affects his day to day life, how does it explain the actions? It's not like this chap is stealing bread to feed his poverty stricken family. There is no grey area when it comes to simple theft. Simples.

CrazyRabbit · 17-05-2011 08:11PM

If prison is so bloody hard on him because of his OCD, then why the hell is he still breaking the law!!! Sounds like a pretty good (extra) reason to stay within the law.

Naikon · 17-05-2011 08:15PM

I am pretty certain there are plenty of law abiding citizens with OCD traits who don't try to justify simple moral choices by blaming it on their "condition". Why should a report by a psychiatrist/counsellor hold weight in this case? Theft is a very simple choice. He deliberately set out to harm people. No grey area.

kfallon · 17-05-2011 08:17PM

I'd have locked him in a cell with shit smeared all over the walls, that'd teach him.
The world's gone soft :rolleyes:

Biggins · 17-05-2011 08:18PM

When his probation is over, does he get a clean sheet or is he already washed up?

Odysseus · 17-05-2011 08:33PM

Naikon wrote: »

The string of previous convictions does not help his case, mind you. "OCD" is NOT an excuse to justify stealing from old people for instance. It riles me that Psychiatrists can use "OCD" or whatever fancy term to potentially explain certain conduct. Had this guy been beaten to within an inch of his life by an abusive father, maybe I would agree. "OCD" has nothing to do with stealing. Even if the condition affects his day to day life, how does it explain the actions? It's not like this chap is stealing bread to feed his poverty stricken family. There is no grey area when it comes to simple theft. Simples.

Whilst I personally think this guy should be locked up, I cannot understand your last statement. If he had experienced physical abuse you may agree? Whilst there are many different opinions on the aetiology of OCD, a significant amount of those with OCD that I have treated have experienced childhood sexual abuse, those I would be careful in not saying that is the cause. So would that facilitate such a sentence in this case, if the chap had been abused?

I'm all for taking into account psychological issues when a person is being sentenced, with the limited info we have on this case, I don't think his OCD should stop him from going to jail. Psychological issues and terms can explain a person's behaviour; but it does not justify it. There is a big difference and I think it is a common misunderstanding. My own work would bring me into contact with varying degrees of criminality, mental health professionals seek to understand, explain and treat the behaviour, but never to justify criminal behaviour.

Naikon · 17-05-2011 08:54PM

Odysseus wrote: »

I cannot understand your last statement. If he had experienced physical abuse you may agree? Whilst there are many different opinions on the aetiology of OCD, a significant amount of those with OCD that I have treated have experienced childhood sexual abuse, those I would be careful in not saying that is the cause. So would that facilitate such a sentence in this case, if the chap had been abused?

This chap didn't suffer any sort of abuse. Childhood abuse cannot really be faked. OCD severity can. The clear lack of objective criteria for diagnosing OCD leads me to believe the disorder should not be held in the same regard. While chronic cases may possibly exist, OCD is something that ANY member of the general population could have in a given time period based on an arbitrary, culturally influenced checklist. Handing out labels on a whim to half explain actions is a cop out for society as a whole. Empirical isn't a word used too often by mental health professionals.

ArtyM · 17-05-2011 08:57PM

Proper Order

Yakult · 17-05-2011 09:19PM

He was pretty easy to find on facebook, looks like a right tosser.

Odysseus · 17-05-2011 09:20PM

Naikon wrote: »

This chap didn't suffer any sort of abuse. Childhood abuse cannot really be faked. OCD severity can. The clear lack of objective criteria for diagnosing OCD leads me to believe the disorder should not be held in the same regard. While chronic cases exist, OCD is something that ANY member of the general population could have in a given time period based on an arbitrary, culturally influenced checklist. Handing out labels on a whim to half explain actions is a cop out for society as a whole.

I did not say he did if you read my post; I asked the poster who could understand this guys criminality if hed been physically abused; if he could understand it if he had been sexually abused, as I would experience a history of sexual abuse in my patients with OCD. However, we do not have access to his case file to say whether he did or did not have OCD or how severe it was. How can you say abuse cannot be faked, I know of cases where people have made false claims to the Redress Board and received compensation. So like most things it can be faked.

Unless you possess info that I don't, it is impossible to say whether he was abused or not, even though we are going off topic. Clinically relevant OCD symptoms are not something that most of the population could have in a given time. What some people call OCD traits yes, but the high levels of distress that accompany certain behaviours are totally different in OCD is totally different. OCD is one of those terms like psychopath that has become part of our everyday lexicon, but it's use does not reflect it's clinical meaning.

Are the ICD-10 and DSM merely arbitrary cultural checklists? Yes I would have to agree with you on that one, but for the rest I can't.

holystungun9 · 17-05-2011 09:26PM

prinz wrote: »

FFS, why didn't they stick him in prison and see then how he was. :mad:

Exactly, give him some Mr. Muscle (the spray, not the cell mate) and a feather duster and leave go mental cleaning everything. He could clean the hole thing top to bottom, nobs and all. Wait, cell door don't have nobs, do they?

Naikon · 17-05-2011 09:33PM

Odysseus wrote: »

I did not say he did if you read my post; I asked the poster who could understand this guys criminality if hed been physically abused; if he could understand it if he had been sexually abused, as I would experience a history of sexual abuse in my patients with OCD. However, we do not have access to his case file to say whether he did or did not have OCD or how severe it was. How can you say abuse cannot be faked, I know of cases where people have made false claims to the Redress Board and received compensation. So like most things it can be faked.

Unless you possess info that I don't, it is impossible to say whether he was abused or not, even though we are going off topic. Clinically relevant OCD symptoms are not something that most of the population could have in a given time. What some people call OCD traits yes, but the high levels of distress that accompany certain behaviours are totally different in OCD is totally different. OCD is one of those terms like psychopath that has become part of our everyday lexicon, but it's use does not reflect it's clinical meaning.

Are the ICD-10 and DSM merely arbitrary cultural checklists? Yes I would have to agree with you on that one, but for the rest I can't.

Ok, I am wrong on this one.

Saila · 17-05-2011 09:44PM

Naikon wrote: »

The string of previous convictions does not help his case, mind you. "OCD" is NOT an excuse to justify stealing from old people for instance. It riles me that Psychiatrists can use "OCD" or whatever fancy term to potentially explain certain conduct. Had this guy been beaten to within an inch of his life by an abusive father, maybe I would agree. "OCD" has nothing to do with stealing. Even if the condition affects his day to day life, how does it explain the actions? It's not like this chap is stealing bread to feed his poverty stricken family. There is no grey area when it comes to simple theft. Simples.

Naikon wrote: »

I am pretty certain there are plenty of law abiding citizens with OCD traits who don't try to justify simple moral choices by blaming it on their "condition". Why should a report by a psychiatrist/counsellor hold weight in this case? Theft is a very simple choice. He deliberately set out to harm people. No grey area.

cop on and read the article and tell me where it says he is using OCD to justify/explain the thefts :rolleyes:

Naikon · 17-05-2011 09:51PM

Saila wrote: »

cop on and read the article and tell me where it says he is using OCD to justify/explain the thefts :rolleyes:

Where exactly did I state he was using OCD as an excuse? It's pretty obvious from the article that it was a major factor in not landing this guy in pound me in the ass prison. A reduced sentance based on an OCD diagnosis. "It’s clear to me from the psychological report you have a raft of psychological problems that need addressing.’ The OCD is basically a mitigating factor towards his theft offences.

ArtyM · 17-05-2011 10:06PM

holystungun9 wrote: »

Exactly, give him some Mr. Muscle (the spray, not the cell mate) and a feather duster and leave go mental cleaning everything. He could clean the hole thing top to bottom, nobs and all. Wait, cell door don't have nobs, do they?

No but cellmates do(knobs) and they always need polishing!

m@cc@ · 17-05-2011 10:07PM

kfallon wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387341/Serial-burglar-Nathan-Cassidy-free-judge-accepts-OCD-make-jail-traumatic.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Don't feed the troll.

holystungun9 · 17-05-2011 10:09PM

m@cc@ wrote: »

Don't feed the troll.

Can we scratch his belly??

Saila · 17-05-2011 10:11PM

Naikon wrote: »

Where exactly did I state he was using OCD as an excuse? It's pretty obvious from the article that it was a major factor in not landing this guy in pound me in the ass prison. A reduced sentance based on an OCD diagnosis. "It’s clear to me from the psychological report you have a raft of psychological problems that need addressing.’ The OCD is basically a mitigating factor towards his theft offences.

no its not, you are missing the point the reason OCD is being used as a defence in this is that serving in prison with a condition of that nature is going to be cruel and difficult for him which a couple of other posters have gone into a bit more detail about early on in the thread.
You seem to have the sterotypical notion of what OCD is, but dont seem to get the point of what it actually is. The psych reports will not be justifying the crime, but rather explaining the cruel nature of the punishment involved and the judge being a human and b an understanding of what getting the propper treatment he needs will be better for society in the long run has decided he get his head sorted out for him

m@cc@ · 17-05-2011 10:11PM

holystungun9 wrote: »

Can we scratch his belly??

It's a bit sexist to assume the troll was male. You want to take a long hard look at yourself and your prejudices.

Gummy Panda · 17-05-2011 10:13PM

I hear in prison, they make you pee in a cup then throw it at you.

And we thought our Justice system was bad

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