JUstice the American Way

HellFireClub · 17-05-2011 02:48PM

You'd have to ask is there is there not a protocol in place for folks like this and stuff like hotel room service... I imagine his VIP status at the moment is up there with world leaders, surely a protocol was in place where he isn't getting out of the shower or in the middle of getting dressed and he finds that a chambermaid is working around him as he is putting on his clothes.

You wouldn't see something like this being allowed to happen for obvious reasons, if it was a head of state of a Minister of Finance in the same hotel (say for example it was allowed to happen, and a chambermaid for example took it upon herself to video some visiting dignitary getting dressed or just walking back into his room naked after a shower and the video footage ends up going viral on the internet/youtube/facebook), surely they have a protocol to deal with this kind of stuff and it wasn't followed on this occasion...

I just can't imagine that it is normal for a diplomat or dignitary to be getting dressed or getting out of the shower or even in the same room while a chambermaid is attending to room service...

paddydriver · 17-05-2011 02:54PM

When are we gonna see a picture of the alleged victim? - If she is an awful mutt then I reckon he is home free... but if she is hot like the girl from 9 years ago then I think he is in trouble!!

I am guessing for $3k a night they probably come into clean the rooms naked themselves.

On the mobile phone thing - supposedly he actually called the hotel when he realised he had left his mobile behind; doesn't sound like a guy that is worried bout getting away!

pickarooney · 17-05-2011 03:08PM

paddydriver wrote: »

When are we gonna see a picture of the alleged victim? - If she is an awful mutt then I reckon he is home free... but if she is hot like the girl from 9 years ago then I think he is in trouble!!

I know you're having a laugh but I read a relayed quote from his legal team to that exact effect in Metro earlier.

Now I've outed myself as a hypocrite for reading/talking about something I claim should not be written about.

Dangerous Man · 17-05-2011 03:39PM

orourkeda wrote: »

What does arresting anyone on suspicion of a serious sex crime prove about the criminal justice system of any nation.

Nobody has been prosecuted and the case has not even got to court yet. If this is true why is the US worthy of praise on the basis of an arrest?

People aren't praising the arrest per se, but rather the fact that the conditions exist in the United States that allow the police to actually do their jobs - rather than sit on their hands waiting to be told to do their jobs. In Ireland we have a force that is utterly supine to the mores of the political / economic elite.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Our police force is great for going after the small guy - but ask it to do something about political corruption, white collar crime or high profile criminals and it's an abject failure.

southsiderosie · 17-05-2011 04:01PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What makes it worse some accusers remain unidentified when the other person is found innocent. It is therefore very easy to ruin a persons reputation.

Coming out to the press 8 years after an alleged assault when you are an adult at the time is a little odd too.

It doesn't take a complicated conspiracy theory to think that this is a possible stitch up.

France is not the US - it is more liberal when it comes to sex, but conservative when it comes to traditional gender roles. In many ways, France is still a deeply patriarchal and hierarchical society. Sexual harassment is tolerated in France (and Italy) in a way that would be totally unacceptable in the US - and Strauss-Kahn was warned about this when he took the IMF position. Washington DC ain't Paris.

pickarooney wrote: »

If this person was given the same treatment as the ordinary Joe Soap he wouldn't be all over the media and you wouldn't be talking about him. An ordinary Joe Soap probably wouldn't be refused bail because of his connections (but might be if he couldn't afford it). Bear in mind this is the same justice system that acquits the likes of OJ Simpson.

People accused of serious crimes appear on the local evening news every night in the US. Most courtrooms have cameras. This has received the world's attention because of who he is, but it would still probably be on the local news regardless.

Overheal · 17-05-2011 04:47PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgXjNkwVyeE

pickarooney wrote: »

I've always thought it a disgrace that anyone's identity was made public in relation to any criminal charge up to and until a guilty sentence has been passed and I stand by that.

Why? The media doesn't convict a defendant. The judicial system does. People have the right to know what's happening in the system, and they have a right to know the outcome. The thought of an opaque justice system makes my skin crawl. If you had the same thing in Ireland you would never hear about the suspended sentences run amok or the Eddie Halvey's of the world. You have a right to see how justice is carried out and a responsibility to use that visibility to ensure it is carried out correctly.

inforfun · 17-05-2011 06:19PM

paddydriver wrote: »

When are we gonna see a picture of the alleged victim? - If she is an awful mutt then I reckon he is home free... but if she is hot like the girl from 9 years ago then I think he is in trouble!!

Judge yourself

That is her, supposedly.

32 year, originally from Cameroon, now living in the Bronx with her 15 year old daughter.

Dudess · 17-05-2011 08:11PM

Rawhead wrote: »

I know the man has a presumption of innocence

Exactly.

but you have to hand it to the Americans the way they have dealt with Dominique Strauss-Kahn.
-Hauled off first class in JFK
-Perp walked in front of the worlds media
-Remanded in custody to Rikers Island (equivellent to the Joy)

And on the basis of your statement above, no you don't have to hand it to them.

Consider the same situation in this banana republic

Ireland is like Ecuador now?

-Plane given priority take off clearance
-Super injunction placed on victim
-Gardai sent in 3 months later to get evidence

I don't know about that. And an injunction (whatever a "super" one is) is dead right.

I know the Americans get it wrong a lot of the time, but man do they give the public at least a sense that the big guys don't always get away with it i.e. Bernie Madoff

Get away with what? This guy hasn't been charged with anything.

HellFireClub wrote: »

Fair play to the Yanks for holding him to the same standard as everyone else less privileged, without fear or favour, it just shows this sorry backwater kip up for the childish smarmy corrupt sh*thole that it is...

HellFireClub wrote: »

This guy isn't your ordinary Joe who has to go to an airport with a passport to leave a country, he is connected with some of the wealthiest people on earth, people with private jets, etc. He probably has his 1 Mil bail money hanging off his shoe or else he has it on his credit card. Dead right to remand him.

FFS, you're talking about him as if he has been convicted of the rape. Some people don't give a sh1t about innocent until proven guilty. How would you like if you were charged with a crime you didn't commit and the public decided you were guilty? Maybe he is guilty, but he should be allowed the benefit of the doubt until the verdict.

Logical Fallacy · 17-05-2011 08:19PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

mmmmmm IMF.... political aspirations..... politics and money - what a toxic combination. The changes will probably be dropped due to "lack of evidence" but his political career is over before it's even started.

lol, no it won't. If the case gets dropped it won't even dent his rep in France.

Rawhead · 17-05-2011 09:47PM

Dudess wrote: »

Exactly.

And on the basis of your statement above, no you don't have to hand it to them.

Ireland is like Ecuador now?

I don't know about that. And an injunction (whatever a "super" one is) is dead right.

Get away with what? This guy hasn't been charged with anything.

FFS, you're talking about him as if he has been convicted of the rape. Some people don't give a sh1t about innocent until proven guilty. How would you like if you were charged with a crime you didn't commit and the public decided you were guilty? Maybe he is guilty, but he should be allowed the benefit of the doubt until the verdict.

Can you name another first world country that would adopt a policy at the highest government level to protect and keep anonymous a tiny minority of elite people who nearly single handedly bankrupt that same nation.

Name another first world democracy that would allow a group of people abscond the jurisdiction while they were implicated in the biggest financial crime in the states history and then make no effort to get these people returned for questioning.

Name another first world country that would allow these same people hinder, evade and down right obstruct that investigation by withholding vital information and passwords.

If I were an Ecuadorian I would be f*cking raging if I were compared to this place......

Manic Moran · 17-05-2011 10:32PM

RichieC wrote: »

American justice! F*ck yea.. cop shoots young black man, says he mistook his gun(2.44 lb) for a taser(7 oz), walks away.

Actually, he was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and is doing two years right now. When he gets out, he's probably going to need a new identity, let alone a new job.

France has well established 'form' of not cooperating with the American judicial system.

It's more a matter that France won't extradite French citizens to anyone, not just the Americans.

NTM

Freddie59 · 17-05-2011 11:16PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

You can only imagine the outcome if he was implicated in that manner in Ireland...

"We need to keep moving forward, we cannot shock the markets or the IMF"...

"The IMF are delighted at our engagement with their organisation and a decision was made to release the suspect as he enjoys diplomatic immunity anyway so it's only a waste of tax payers money holding a trial"...

Fair play to the Yanks for holding him to the same standard as everyone else less privileged, without fear or favour, it just shows this sorry backwater kip up for the childish smarmy corrupt sh*thole that it is...

+1 to that. There was a criminologist on the Last Word last week. He was amazed at how the golden Circle have been almost granted anonymity in this country. He was shocked at the password debacle in Anglo. He said that in the States they'd have the passwords in three days - and the ones who refused to hand them over locked up.

Freddie59 · 17-05-2011 11:18PM

Dudess wrote: »

Maybe he is guilty, but he should be allowed the benefit of the doubt until the verdict.

He probably should. But would YOU have left that plane take off? As the OP pointed out, we're WAY too soft on crims in this country.

Freddie59 · 17-05-2011 11:19PM

Rawhead wrote: »

Can you name another first world country that would adopt a policy at the highest government level to protect and keep anonymous a tiny minority of elite people who nearly single handedly bankrupt that same nation.

Name another first world democracy that would allow a group of people abscond the jurisdiction while they were implicated in the biggest financial crime in the states history and then make no effort to get these people returned for questioning.

Name another first world country that would allow these same people hinder, evade and down right obstruct that investigation by withholding vital information and passwords.

If I were an Ecuadorian I would be f*cking raging if I were compared to this place......

+1 to ALL of that.

Dudess · 18-05-2011 01:57PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

As the OP pointed out, we're WAY too soft on crims in this country.

Yes, but how is that even relevant when this man hasn't been convicted of anything yet? Has his trial even started?

People should hold back until the judge/jury have their say...

LeeHoffmann · 18-05-2011 02:01PM

I find it odd that people are calling for his resignation. I thought it was innocent until proven guilty?

nacho libre · 18-05-2011 02:34PM

Rawhead wrote: »

Can you name another first world country that would adopt a policy at the highest government level to protect and keep anonymous a tiny minority of elite people who nearly single handedly bankrupt that same nation.

..

You obviously have not watched the documentary Inside Job. As I doubt you could come to this conclusion otherwise.

Also with regard to Ireland, justice delayed, is better than justice not served at all. These investigations into anglo are a legal mind field by all accounts. So it would be a mistake to speed up the process and possibly risking not securing prosecutions against certain individuals, it's better if the process is painstaking and thorough, thereby hopefully increasing the chances of people being convicted.

Mr.Micro · 18-05-2011 03:13PM

nacho libre wrote: »

You obviously have not watched the documentary Inside Job. As I doubt you could come to this conclusion otherwise.

Also with regard to Ireland, justice delayed, is better than justice not served at all. These investigations into anglo are a legal mind field by all accounts. So it would be a mistake to speed up the process and possibly risking not securing prosecutions against certain individuals, it's better if the process is painstaking and thorough, thereby hopefully increasing the chances of people being convicted.

I hope you are right Nacho, its just that too many have gotten away in the past and we have become a bit jaundiced when it comes the culprits paying the price.

Elisabeth Blanctorche · 18-05-2011 03:45PM

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I find it odd that people are calling for his resignation. I thought it was innocent until proven guilty?

PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty. If I murder someone, and the trial proving me guilty isn't for 2 years - I am hardly "innocent" during that time.

LeeHoffmann · 18-05-2011 03:54PM

EB you're being pedantic. Clearly I'm not saying he's innocent - that remains to be seen. Clearly my point here is that he shouldn't be treated as if he was guilty when the evidence has not been heard :rolleyes:

southsiderosie · 18-05-2011 06:40PM

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I find it odd that people are calling for his resignation. I thought it was innocent until proven guilty?

Even if he is, a trial would be a huge distraction for the IMF at a critical time. At this point, the sooner they can get their leadership settled, the better.

Overheal · 18-05-2011 09:41PM

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

EB you're being pedantic.

Law regularly is. Necessarily so.

JUstice the American Way

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