dont forget to get onto your wedding suppliers re VAT reduction

CelineOC · 16-05-2011 02:50PM

hi

the hotel has come back to me again to say;

Thank you for your response and we note your concerns. This issue of the VAT reduction is going to be discussed by the Irish Hotels Federation who will offer advice and guidance to the industry. The IHF will issue guidance in due course on how this matter is to be dealt with before it comes into effect in July 2011.

The changes to the VAT rate were only announced late last week and there has been no further clarification as of yet. We will deal with the matter when we receive guidance from the IHF and further advice from the Revenue Commissioners. We are not in a position to offer any further comment on the issue of the VAT rate until we have had clarification from the IHF and Revenue Commissioners. These things typically take a few weeks to filter through and we will deal with the matter when we are presented with further information.

so i guess i'll wait and see what they come back with ! dont really see what the problem is as to me it seems its straight forward, they were charging 13% and its now reduced to 9%!!!?

D3PO · 16-05-2011 03:39PM

CelineOC wrote: »

hi

the hotel has come back to me again to say;

Thank you for your response and we note your concerns. This issue of the VAT reduction is going to be discussed by the Irish Hotels Federation who will offer advice and guidance to the industry. The IHF will issue guidance in due course on how this matter is to be dealt with before it comes into effect in July 2011.

The changes to the VAT rate were only announced late last week and there has been no further clarification as of yet. We will deal with the matter when we receive guidance from the IHF and further advice from the Revenue Commissioners. We are not in a position to offer any further comment on the issue of the VAT rate until we have had clarification from the IHF and Revenue Commissioners. These things typically take a few weeks to filter through and we will deal with the matter when we are presented with further information.

so i guess i'll wait and see what they come back with ! dont really see what the problem is as to me it seems its straight forward, they were charging 13% and its now reduced to 9%!!!?

They are fobbing you off. What they are basically saying is we are meeting other hotels soon to discuss how we can avoid passing on the VAT reduction and once we know the agnle to take we will let you know that angle.

Hotels set their own prices now. So its nothing more than a fob hoping you reluctantly back off.

CelineOC · 16-05-2011 03:45PM

so annoying ! I dont want to cos a song and dance with her just yet as i dont want a bad vibe before the wedding plans even start but to me its pretty black and white ! its VAT she cannot hold onto it and doesnt set the rate !! i will wait it out and see what her reply is and depending on that i will then take it further!

What do you think ?

Theboinkmaster · 16-05-2011 05:20PM

I sent a mail last week. We booked in November last year for our wedding this November and I'm relaxed enough now to follow it up for another few weeks.

You will get the reduction, there's no chance they could justify it and you don't want to be too heavy-handed as you have to work with these people to plan your wedding.

The change doens't come into affect into July so as long as your wedding isn't until well after that what's the rush? Just relax and follow it up in June/July.

krankykitty · 16-05-2011 10:11PM

I've emailed the Consumer Association of Ireland for more advice. I want to get all my facts straight before reverting to the hotel.

I will fill you all in if I get any relevant info about our rights here.

CelineOC · 18-05-2011 07:28PM

krankykitty wrote: »

I've emailed the Consumer Association of Ireland for more advice. I want to get all my facts straight before reverting to the hotel.

I will fill you all in if I get any relevant info about our rights here.

Great krankykitty thanks. Pls be sure to keep us posted the hotel still has got back to me but as the poster above said I'm not going to put them (for the moment!!!)

Theboinkmaster · 23-05-2011 01:49PM

Anyone have any updates? My hotel are being surprisingly stubborn :rolleyes:

LBD · 23-05-2011 03:27PM

We got our reply on friday.

-"It will apply, but we can’t say if it will apply to your wedding as we will have to wait for it to come into law, as this depends on the finance bill."

We just replied that guidelines say it will come into effect on the 1st of July and as our wedding is in late July we will take it that it does apply and that we will confirm once it comes into effect!

We didn't have the fight we thought we would have actually...

krankykitty · 23-05-2011 08:53PM

Excerpt from reply from National Consumer Agency:

"Your email does not indicate whether a deposit has been paid. If not, then no contract would yet be formed and the hotel would have discretion to alter the price. If a deposit has been paid and a contract formed then a consumer is entitled to expect the hotel to honour it within any terms and conditions that apply.

The NCA do not have information on the application of VAT. You would need to contact Revenue, at www.revenue.ie, to establish what VAT rate is payable where services are booked prior to, but not provided, until after the rate changes.

If the hotel are not adhering to the terms and conditions of the original contract and/or revenue rules and you are unable to resolve the matter over the phone or in person, then you could make a formal complaint in writing to the Manager. Failing resolution further options may be either the Small Claims Procedure or independent legal advice from a solicitor."

Bens · 25-05-2011 08:12PM

Just to throw in my experience here.
My sister is getting married in September. She asked the hotel about the new VAT rate last week and basically got the run around.
So I went down to the hotel with her today.

They tried to give me the run around too. Basically stone walling me in the hope I would go away.
They were sticking to their guns that the price would be the same as that agreed and saying they were facing increased costs and the rest blah blah blah.
I saw on another forum how to go about this, and from my day to day business dealings I know that if I asked them for an itemized quote to include the vat rate and amount, they would have to give it to me.

So now we have a quote that has everything on it and the vat rate too. They had to put on todays vat rate. That quote means everything now that the vat rate and amount is on it.

When the day comes to pay for the wedding we will just query the vat rate they are charging and ask for an itemized receipt similar to the one we have.

If they are charging what was agreed then there will be a difference because of the new lower vat rate, so we will see overcharging straight away and will refuse to pay if the amount does not match the quote we have now, but with the new vat amount.

The hotel will not have a leg to stand on. So even if they are giving you the run around now, you are completely within your rights to get them the vat difference back. Just get that quote.

Chubi · 26-05-2011 09:15AM

Hi All,

This is the response I received from my hotel;

“Deposits received pre 1 July 2011
If a member has already received a deposit for a future event that may take place after 1 July 2011 a VAT tax point has been created. The tax point for a business client is either the date the deposit is received or alternatively if a VAT invoice is raised before 15 of the following month the date of the VAT invoice. For example, if a business client paid a deposit for a future event on 1 May 2011 the VAT tax point would either be 1 May 2011 or if an invoice was raised, say on 14 June 2011 the VAT tax point would be 14 June 2011. In either situation a VAT tax point has been created and VAT at 13.5% must be declared to Revenue.
Alternatively, if a non business client paid a deposit before 1 July 2011 the VAT tax point is the date of receipt of payment. There is no VAT requirement to issue a VAT invoice to a non business client. In these circumstances a VAT tax point has been created prior to 1 July 2011 and VAT at 13.5% must be declared to Revenue.”

ETA - Our wedding in late next year and we paid our deposit in April....
Any thoughts???
Thanks,
DubShelley

montane · 26-05-2011 09:27AM

Chubi wrote: »

Hi All,

This is the response I received from my hotel;

“Deposits received pre 1 July 2011
If a member has already received a deposit for a future event that may take place after 1 July 2011 a VAT tax point has been created. The tax point for a business client is either the date the deposit is received or alternatively if a VAT invoice is raised before 15 of the following month the date of the VAT invoice. For example, if a business client paid a deposit for a future event on 1 May 2011 the VAT tax point would either be 1 May 2011 or if an invoice was raised, say on 14 June 2011 the VAT tax point would be 14 June 2011. In either situation a VAT tax point has been created and VAT at 13.5% must be declared to Revenue.
Alternatively, if a non business client paid a deposit before 1 July 2011 the VAT tax point is the date of receipt of payment. There is no VAT requirement to issue a VAT invoice to a non business client. In these circumstances a VAT tax point has been created prior to 1 July 2011 and VAT at 13.5% must be declared to Revenue.”

ETA - Our wedding in late next year and we paid our deposit in April....
Any thoughts???
Thanks,
DubShelley

I think you should cancel your wedding, wait until the new VAT date comes into force and then rebook saving you a whopping 4.5%. Or you could write a completely aggressive letter about taking legal action even though you have no basis for any.

Chubi · 26-05-2011 09:32AM

montane wrote: »

I think you should cancel your wedding, wait until the new VAT date comes into force and then rebook saving you a whopping 4.5%. Or you could write a completely aggressive letter about taking legal action even though you have no basis for any.

Why bother even replying?

Theboinkmaster · 26-05-2011 10:00AM

Chubi wrote: »

Hi All,

This is the response I received from my hotel;

“Deposits received pre 1 July 2011
If a member has already received a deposit for a future event that may take place after 1 July 2011 a VAT tax point has been created. The tax point for a business client is either the date the deposit is received or alternatively if a VAT invoice is raised before 15 of the following month the date of the VAT invoice. For example, if a business client paid a deposit for a future event on 1 May 2011 the VAT tax point would either be 1 May 2011 or if an invoice was raised, say on 14 June 2011 the VAT tax point would be 14 June 2011. In either situation a VAT tax point has been created and VAT at 13.5% must be declared to Revenue.
Alternatively, if a non business client paid a deposit before 1 July 2011 the VAT tax point is the date of receipt of payment. There is no VAT requirement to issue a VAT invoice to a non business client. In these circumstances a VAT tax point has been created prior to 1 July 2011 and VAT at 13.5% must be declared to Revenue.”

ETA - Our wedding in late next year and we paid our deposit in April....
Any thoughts???
Thanks,
DubShelley

That is complete and utter bo***x. A VAT registered hotel has to issue a VAT invoice, no matter who the customer is. Also the VAT tax point is the date of the invoice ie the date of your wedding.

They're just trying it on with you. For example if you paid a deposit of €5k in November 2010 for a wedding in August 2011 the hotel would not issue a VAT invoice in November and pay 13.5% of VAT of the €5k over to the Revenue then. They will wait until they create the full VAT invoice in August 2011 and pay over the VAT then.

Chubi · 26-05-2011 10:15AM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

That is complete and utter bo***x. A VAT registered hotel has to issue a VAT invoice, no matter who the customer is. Also the VAT tax point is the date of the invoice ie the date of your wedding.

They're just trying it on with you. For example if you paid a deposit of €5k in November 2010 for a wedding in August 2011 the hotel would not issue a VAT invoice in November and pay 13.5% of VAT of the €5k over to the Revenue then. They will wait until they create the full VAT invoice in August 2011 and pay over the VAT then.

Thanks Boinkmaster, my thoughts exactly. What are the IHF playing at? I know this may seem like a relatively small saving to some but for us with 200-220 guest to pay for, an extra few quid in our pocket would be brilliant!

I've contacted Revenue to see what their opinion is so hopefully they'll get back to me soon!

CelineOC · 26-05-2011 12:06PM

Hi Chubi - pls let us know what revenue say..

I mean the hotel is not losin or gaining on vat UNLESS they are blantant going to Rob us by keepin d 4% savings! I am so angry with this! As I've said above I dnt want to get too into it with them YET as our wedding is not till nxt yr so plans haven't even started and I dnt want a bad vibe but at the same time d vat is d vat not their profile or loss??!!

Savman · 26-05-2011 04:38PM

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

That is complete and utter bo***x. A VAT registered hotel has to issue a VAT invoice, no matter who the customer is.

Please stop spreading misinformation.

Revenue.ie wrote:

An accountable person is not required to issue a VAT invoice to an unregistered person otherwise, but may do so if he or she so wishes.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/charging/invoicing.html#section3

It's still poor form by the hotels in this case.

Theboinkmaster · 26-05-2011 06:12PM

You're wrong - all hotels issue VAT receipts, sure look at the last thing you bought in a shop which is liable to VAT, it will have the VAT disclosed on it.

In any case you can request a VAT invoice from your hotel and simply refuse to pay until you receive it.

Bens · 26-05-2011 08:40PM

Chubi wrote: »

Thanks Boinkmaster, my thoughts exactly. What are the IHF playing at? I know this may seem like a relatively small saving to some but for us with 200-220 guest to pay for, an extra few quid in our pocket would be brilliant!

I've contacted Revenue to see what their opinion is so hopefully they'll get back to me soon!

Chubi, I think what you should do now, provided you havent sent out invitations etc with the location, is to start looking around at other venues. Arm yourself with the price you have agreed and show the other hotels. Tell them you already have your wedding booked, but because of the hotel being assholes that you are now looking for an alternative. Tell them if they beat the price you would be paying with the new vat rate along with the potential loss of your deposit you will go with them.

Let your current venue know you are doing this and that you will stop if they start acting reasonably.

Also if you ask for the vat amount to be included in your quote in writing, they have to give it to you.

This is what is happening.
"How much vat am I paying on that product and can you write it down for me please"
"Oh, we cant tell you that. P1ss off".

Theboinkmaster · 27-05-2011 09:16AM

Bens wrote: »

Chubi, I think what you should do now, provided you havent sent out invitations etc with the location, is to start looking around at other venues. Arm yourself with the price you have agreed and show the other hotels. Tell them you already have your wedding booked, but because of the hotel being assholes that you are now looking for an alternative. Tell them if they beat the price you would be paying with the new vat rate along with the potential loss of your deposit you will go with them.

Let your current venue know you are doing this and that you will stop if they start acting reasonably.

Also if you ask for the vat amount to be included in your quote in writing, they have to give it to you.

This is what is happening.
"How much vat am I paying on that product and can you write it down for me please"
"Oh, we cant tell you that. P1ss off".

I'd be careful about being so heavy-handed with the venue at this stage. Don't forget you have to work with these people towards your special day so there's a fine line between being firm and negotiating and being aggressive (which would work in other business situations).

My venue are thinking about it so what ill probably do is leave it until the morning after the wedding when the balance is due and then demand it then. If they don't play ball ill just suggest they come after me legally for the extra 4.5% as ill only pay the 9% rate.

Chubi · 27-05-2011 01:58PM

Hi All,

I got a response from Revenue saying the following:

The answer they gave you only relates to their obligations with regard to the VAT on the deposit. If the hotel receives an advance payment it is obliged to return to revenue the VAT on that payment at the rate applicable at the time of payment. However, because your wedding is not until October, the balance I would feel would be taxable at the 9% rate but you should ask for clarification from the hotel in this regard.

So I've sent it onto the hotel and hopefully they'll respond favourably.

We picked this hotel because it was "the one" for us, after looking at about 15 other hotels so cancelling at this stage over a few hundred euro simply isn't an option! They are working on direction from the IHF so I'm not really that p*ssed with the hotel itself. I just don't want to let it go as we are entitled to the reduction!

I will let you know how they respond!

Chubi

mendacity · 29-05-2011 08:26PM

Anyone else have any joy with their hotel re Vat reduction. I have yet to approach ours.

modmuffin · 31-05-2011 10:42PM

I wrote to our hotel today, I basically added it as a query onto the end of a letter clarifying some of the terms & conditions.

I just mentioned the reduction, calculated the "new" rate per person and asked them to verify that my calculations were correct. Will report back with their reply.

CelineOC · 05-06-2011 08:03PM

How is everyone getting on with there hotel....?
Any of them helpful??

pauliewallie · 06-06-2011 02:34PM

modmuffin wrote: »

I wrote to our hotel today, I basically added it as a query onto the end of a letter clarifying some of the terms & conditions.

I just mentioned the reduction, calculated the "new" rate per person and asked them to verify that my calculations were correct. Will report back with their reply.

we have yet to contact our hotel. the wedding is the end of july. this approach looks good. how did you go?

wexford12 · 06-06-2011 05:28PM

I spoke to our hotel last week and she said it was the first she had heard of it.She didnt think they would do anything as i was told we were getting a great deal anyway. I told her we would settle for two bedrooms in the deal F.O.C .She is coming back to me over the next week

Theboinkmaster · 07-06-2011 09:55AM

wexford12 wrote: »

I spoke to our hotel last week and she said it was the first she had heard of it.She didnt think they would do anything as i was told we were getting a great deal anyway. I told her we would settle for two bedrooms in the deal F.O.C .She is coming back to me over the next week

the "great deal" is completely irrelevant, she seems to think you're trying to further negotiate the prices.

You should copy my illustrative example from my earlier post and e-mail it to them, which shows it has no affect on their bottom line.

Toto Wolfcastle · 07-06-2011 10:00AM

This 'great deal' thing seems to be used by a lot of hotels. When they agreed to reduce the price initially they did so knowing how much profit they'd make out of it. It makes no difference to their profits as it's just the VAT, which they don't get to keep anyway, that is being reduced. If they didn't want to reduce their prices initially then they shouldn't have.

godtabh · 07-06-2011 02:48PM

The great deal thing came up with us as well.

They said they would only pass the rate reduction illegally obliged to do so. So basically they will pocket the vat rate reduction themselves.

I'll be asking for a vat receipt once all is done and straight to the small claims court with every paper, wedding journal, blog etc etc getting a copy of the cover letter to the smalls claim court.

Our contract states that if vat goes up price will go up. I dont think they have a leg to stand on.

PS our wedding manager reads these pages so I would assume yours does to. They know exactly what the story is and they are just ripping us off.

D3PO · 07-06-2011 04:24PM

godtabh wrote: »

I'll be asking for a vat receipt once all is done and straight to the small claims court with every paper, wedding journal, blog etc etc getting a copy of the cover letter to the smalls claim court.

Our contract states that if vat goes up price will go up. I dont think they have a leg to stand on.

.

why bother. when your paying off your bill the following day just point blank refuse to pay the bill until they correctly adjust it.

Let them take you to court not the other way around.

dont forget to get onto your wedding suppliers re VAT reduction

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