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Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

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Comments

  • #1742
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    And what about the windows. shutters? There has been a lot of debate about them? Easy to open frm outside? Noisy?
    If they are like the ones I came across they are not at all easy to open from outside .In fact I think police reports stated they couldnt be and in fact the Mc Canns changed their story about the shutter later on . The noise wouldnt really be an issue as I imagine shutters are up and down alot in that area . And the window and door was well hidden by bushes .
    No one passing has ever been known to have noted the window open that night .


    http://clarencemitchell.webs.com/
    2. Being forced to deny the McCanns’ initial claim of a break-in

    On the evening that Madeleine was reported missing, the McCanns claimed an abductor had broken into the children’s room by ‘jemmying open the shutters’. They repeated that claim many times - a claim the media reported extensively. But the managers of the Mark Warners resort where the McCanns were staying, and the police, soon discovered that the shutters had not been tampered with. This forcing the McCanns to dramatically change their story - one of many changes of story - to say: ‘the abductor must have walked in through an unlocked patio door”. Asked about this discrepancy, Mitchell was forced to concede on the record: “There was no evidence of a break-in. I'm not going into the detail, but I can say that Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape. To do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily”. It is however most unlikley that an abductor could have ‘got out of the window easily’ leaving no forensic trace.


    And oddly enough , knowing this fact and knowing the statement had to be retracted Gerry went ahead on the Late Late and said the shutters could be opened from outside ,when all investigations said they couldnt .
    And then they wonder why people dont believe other statements they make .


  • #1743
    Silver Moon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Silver Moon


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    And what about the windows. shutters? There has been a lot of debate about them? Easy to open frm outside? Noisy?

    these type of shutters are common place all over Portgual and Spain - the whole point of them is that they can't be opened form the outside.


  • #1744
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    ppink wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRw5wMx0QcM

    also the CNN ones on the panel to the right of this video
    Thank you for that . Like in " being the garden " my ass , it was not like it at all . Between the Tapas bar and the apartment is a large swimming pool , walk way , trees , bushes and a path .

    Also , Gerry says " why would you think of someone coming into a holiday apartment and stealing your children ? "

    The same way you presume someone would come in and steal your cash , so you secure it . I bet they secured their credit cards and jewellery


  • #1745
    AskMyChocolate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    some one mentioned the detectives book a while back, can it be purchased/borrowed anywhere?:o

    It's free on-line. He's not in it for the money. Also, he has spent the last four years of his retirement trying to solve the case/find the girl.

    Cue the drumbangers.


  • #1746
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    If they are like the ones I came across they are not at all easy to open from outside .In fact I think police reports stated they couldnt be and in fact the Mc Canns changed their story about the shutter later on . The noise wouldnt really be an issue as I imagine shutters are up and down alot in that area . And the window and door was well hidden by bushes .
    No one passing has ever been known to have noted the window open that night .


    http://clarencemitchell.webs.com/
    2. Being forced to deny the McCanns’ initial claim of a break-in

    On the evening that Madeleine was reported missing, the McCanns claimed an abductor had broken into the children’s room by ‘jemmying open the shutters’. They repeated that claim many times - a claim the media reported extensively. But the managers of the Mark Warners resort where the McCanns were staying, and the police, soon discovered that the shutters had not been tampered with. This forcing the McCanns to dramatically change their story - one of many changes of story - to say: ‘the abductor must have walked in through an unlocked patio door”. Asked about this discrepancy, Mitchell was forced to concede on the record: “There was no evidence of a break-in. I'm not going into the detail, but I can say that Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape. To do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily”. It is however most unlikley that an abductor could have ‘got out of the window easily’ leaving no forensic trace.

    x

    And oddly enough , knowing this fact and knowing the statement had to be retracted Gerry went ahead on the Late Late and said the shutters could be opened from outside ,when all investigations said they couldnt .
    And then they wonder why people dont believe other statements they make .

    The forensics were a mess by the time the cops got there though right?

    Why did it take reception an hour to call them?

    The location of 5A would answer why M as opposed to the other kids left alone in other apartments.

    Twin toddlers? Far too risky and cumbersome and hard to take care of.

    Despite the windows the patio doors were open offerring easy access.


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  • #1747
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Thank you for that . Like in " being the garden " my ass , it was not like it at all . Between the Tapas bar and the apartment is a large swimming pool , walk way , trees , bushes and a path .

    Also , Gerry says " why would you think of someone coming into a holiday apartment and stealing your children ? "

    The same way you presume someone would come in and steal your cash , so you secure it . I bet they secured their credit cards and jewellery

    Eh no you dont assume that your child will be abducted, but you also dont assume they wont fall out of the bed, get up in the middle of night and do something stupid...eh like go for walk through the OPEN patio door by some guy offerring them an icecream and saying their mom is in the hospital bull****...or have a nightmare...a fire...anything...

    I really cant believe that guy. Why doesnt he just come out and say they made a huge error of judgement, they took huge risks, and stop comparing it to being downstairs in your house while the kids are upstairs asleep. WTF is wrong with him?


  • #1748
    Silver Moon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Silver Moon


    If you believe the McCann version of events then - in the space of around 5 minutes - the abductor got into the apartment through either the patio doors or the front door and then sedated all three children, then picked up Madeliene and climbed out the window with her without leaving and fingerprints or DNA anywhere in the apartment. And they did all that in the dark!

    Very skilled. Makes you wonder why they have never struck again.


  • #1749
    Silver Moon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Silver Moon


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Eh no you dont assume that your child will be abducted, but you also dont assume they wont fall out of the bed, get up in the middle of night and do something stupid...eh like go for walk through the OPEN patio door by some guy offerring them an icecream and saying their mom is in the hospital bull****...or have a nightmare...a fire...anything...

    I really cant believe that guy. Why doesnt he just come out and say they made a huge error of judgement, they took huge risks, and stop comparing it to being downstairs in your house while the kids are upstairs asleep. WTF is wrong with him?

    He's an arrogant tosser, that's what's wrong with him. His primary concern has always been about protecting himself and covering his own back.

    Despite what some people claim, the McCanns have NEVER said that what they did was WRONG. The have expresse REGRET at leaving their children night after night in the dar, in an unlocked apartment, out of ear-shot and out of eye sight BUT they still claim it was acceptable behaviour. Had Madeleine not been 'abducted' they would probably still be doing it.

    If I was to walk out of my house now and got run over by a bus I could turn round and say "I wish I hadn't tried to cross the road at the moment" or "I really regret going at out that time". But that is NOT the same as saying that what I did was WRONG. I would still be entitled to say that my behaviour in leaving my house and crossing the road was logical and acceptable and that I could not have forseen being run over by a bus - especially considering no buses come down my round anyway!

    Gerry McCann must think we're all idiots. He ought to look at himself in the mirror - although he probably loves himeself so I doubt if he'd see what every one else sees.


  • #1750
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Silver Moon wrote: »
    If you believe the McCann version of events then - in the space of around 5 minutes - the abductor got into the apartment through either the patio doors or the front door and then sedated all three children, then picked up Madeliene and climbed out the window with her without leaving and fingerprints or DNA anywhere in the apartment. And they did all that in the dark!

    Very skilled. Makes you wonder why they have never struck again.

    I don't believe any of them checked on the kids at all. I think thats a blatant lie, especially given GMs vision of good parenting.

    So that gives whomever did it an hour an a half to do it.

    The alternative possibility - if she wasnt abducted... where is she?


  • #1751
    TheBucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭TheBucks


    I find it hard to believe all their story, but the alternative is they did it, I would prefer to believe the story.


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  • #1752
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    TheBucks wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe all their story, but the alternative is they did it, I would prefer to believe the story.
    Brilliant.


  • #1753
    Benzino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭Benzino


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    ^ the detective did his own documentary which you can look at on youtube. Im not convinced by him either.

    I watched that last night, and found it quite interesting. He does mention the fact that you can't walk straight to the apartment from the bar, which is a very interesting point.

    Another thing he mentions is that a witness, who speaks in it, noticed that the McCann's left the boot of their car open every day for a week, approximately 23 days after she went missing. Is there any other statements to back this up?


  • #1754
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Eh no you dont assume that your child will be abducted, but you also dont assume they wont fall out of the bed, get up in the middle of night and do something stupid...eh like go for walk through the OPEN patio door by some guy offerring them an icecream and saying their mom is in the hospital bull****...or have a nightmare...a fire...anything...

    I really cant believe that guy. Why doesnt he just come out and say they made a huge error of judgement, they took huge risks, and stop comparing it to being downstairs in your house while the kids are upstairs asleep. WTF is wrong with him?
    In fact one of the couples , I cant remember which , stated that they left the patio doors unlocked in case of fire . Good Lord , the thought of fire crossed their minds and yet they chose to leave them ? Oh of course , lets leave the door unlocked so we can save them if we happen to see flames . :rolleyes:


  • #1755
    AskMyChocolate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Absolutely not , I am a parent and under no circumstances would I condone what that group of people did .
    I stayed in an apartment that looked straight down on the number 5a and the Mark Warner complex . What the Mc Canns failed to mention is that you cant walk in a straight line from the Tapas bar to 5a, you have to go out by the reception entrance on to the road and up the steps into the apartment .You cannot see the doors from the bar unless you eat standing on a chair .
    The apartment 5a is particulary vulnerable as its the corner one and the steps lead on to the road outside .Its the main road leading from many apartments down to the sea front and restaurants , so people are passing all the time .The front entrace ( facing away from the complex is hidden from view by trees and bushes .
    I would not have left cash or credit cards openly exposed in that apartment , never mind three precious little children
    I dont know the full story , I know the evidence is flawed , stories changed , mobile phones wiped clear before handing over and many many more little niggles .
    What I do know is that that group and most of all the Mc Canns put their own enjoyment and entertainment before the safety of thier children .
    For that alone in my eyes they were hugely neglectful and sellfish .
    In fact watching that apartment and how it could be open to break in and is vulnerable I am very surprised that not all three kids were taken .

    I think the Mc Canns are on a mission to blame anyone they can so they dont have to look inward and see they it was they who facilitated and they who were the childrens keepers and they who should have kept them safe .

    Sorry, excellent post there chief. I hope you didn't take me up wrong. I was replying to a previous post. I was trying to point out that, being single does not necessarily make you irresponsible, anymore than being a parent makes you responsible. There's been a lot of "when you have kids you'll understand" going on in this thread, and personally I just don't buy that.

    Btw, while it has tended to be parents defending the McCanns behaviour, it has also been parents utterly condemning it.

    I'm old, free, and neutral.:pac:


    People's idea of responsible childcare has nothing to do with whether they are parents or not.IMHO

    And if I was a child, I'm glad who you are.


  • #1756
    baltimore sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭baltimore sun


    Benzino wrote: »
    I watched that last night, and found it quite interesting. He does mention the fact that you can't walk straight to the apartment from the bar, which is a very interesting point.

    Another thing he mentions is that a witness, who speaks in it, noticed that the McCann's left the boot of their car open every day for a week, approximately 23 days after she went missing. Is there any other statements to back this up?

    have you got a link for that?


  • #1757
    Silver Moon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Silver Moon


    The Truth of the Lie Part 5
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K4sLeaHkPY



    See Approx 4.00

    English Translation
    Some witnesses are never questioned again in Portugal, like the Smith family, who said they saw Gerald McCann carrying a child in his arms, towards the sea, at around 10 p.m. on the 3rd of May 2007.

    40.04 – The witness who lived near the McCanns’ second home, in Aldeia da Luz, who says she witnessed an uncommon fact about the McCanns’ hire car, where the dogs detected cadaver odour and remains that may belong to Maddie, was not heard, either. This neighbour has signed a document authorising the broadcast of her deposition that identifies her, but fearing threats and pressures, she doesn’t show her face.

    40.30 – This is an interesting matter, when I left the Criminal Investigation Department in Portimão, in October 2007, nothing was known about this vehicle, about this issue of the open car boot. We knew that inside the vehicle cadaver odour and bodily fluids had been found, where Madeleine McCann’s DNA profile was extracted from, with 15 alleles. Months later, there is a jurist, who lives nearby, who came to report that after the McCanns arrived at this villa, they saw the car boot open from then on.

    41.09 – I drive down this street every day to turn my car around at that end, and every time that I passed the house, and I looked at the car, and the car always had an open boot door, day or night. I often passed at night, and always verified it. It was a fact, I reported it, and that was it.

    41.33 – It’s important to report the following: that lady, that jurist, was never heard at the Polícia Judiciária because her deposition was not considered to be relevant, which is strange. While she was not heard, while a rogatory letter was sent to England, relatives of Gerald and Kate McCann came out to say that they had transported, inside this car boot, food from the supermarket, namely a meat package that leaked blood.

    42.09 – The great question is how the family heard about the witness, despite the fact that she was not heard by the PJ, and tried to reply to the observed facts.

    42.18 – Only a few months later, the investigation is closed. Gonçalo Amaral resigns from the police, writes a book about the case and accepts to return to 5A at the Ocean Club, to demonstrate his conviction that Madeleine McCann died inside this apartment on the 3rd of May 2007.

    42.37 – The family’s spokesman (Mitchell) accuses him (Amaral) of being an opportunist, who is merely interested in making money.


  • #1758
    Benzino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭Benzino


    baltimore sun wrote: »
    have you got a link for that?

    Yup, here is the documentary and the book it is based on. All released for free on the internet as the English version of the book has been banned in the uk.

    The part about the car boot door is at approximately 40 minute mark. Now note Amaral is not the must trustworthy of sources, hence why I'm trying to see if there is other documents backing him up.


  • #1759
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,893 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    I think the child simply walked out of the apartment either looking for her parents or just out of innocent curiosity & unfortunately was discovered by some sort of creepy degenerate.

    How could someone get into the apartment without being seen, take the child without waking her siblings & just walk off into the night?


  • #1760
    Silver Moon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Silver Moon


    the 'woke up wandered off' theory is certinaly more credible than the abduction one - imho. However, in her new book Kate McCann says the suggestion that this could have happened is an 'insult to her intelligence'. I guess that if Madeleine did go out of her own accord then the fault well and truly lays with her parents - their claims of abduction put the onus on someone else and absolve them of responsibility (in their eyes).


  • #1761
    Savage Tyrant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    Silver Moon wrote: »
    the 'woke up wandered off' theory is certinaly more credible than the abduction one - imho. However, in her new book Kate McCann says the suggestion that this could have happened is an 'insult to her intelligence'. I guess that if Madeleine did go out of her own accord then the fault well and truly lays with her parents - their claims of abduction put the onus on someone else and absolve them of responsibility (in their eyes).

    I find it hard to fathom what exactly would be an insult to the intelligence of a woman who thinks leaving three small children alone in an unlocked apartment is perfectly acceptable behaviour for a caring parent.


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  • #1762
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Why would they need to go through the window if the door was open?

    Because, if they used the door, they would be seen.


  • #1763
    Karona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭Karona


    I dont have the Mc Canns down as caring parents, if you read the timeline of the day that maddie went missing, you'll see they dropped the kids into the kids club while they went off for walks, tennis, etc.

    Why bother bringing your kids on holiday if you are just going to dump them on someone else. It is after all a family holiday.


  • #1764
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Karona wrote: »
    I dont have the Mc Canns down as caring parents, if you read the timeline of the day that maddie went missing, you'll see they dropped the kids into the kids club while they went off for walks, tennis, etc.

    Why bother bringing your kids on holiday if you are just going to dump them on someone else. It is after all a family holiday.

    Parents spend time alone together on holiday shocker!


  • #1765
    Silver Moon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Silver Moon


    every day and every night?

    don't forget - Kate McCann herself claims to have slept in the kids room on the night of the 2nd becuase she was annoyed at Gery getting up and abruptly leaving the batr at 11.50pm!

    Yep that's right - it was almost midnight and she moaned about him being rude and leaving her and their friends at the bar. I presume the kids had been in bed since 8.00/8.30 ish. Were they checking every 30mins that night too? Who knows, because mummy dearest says that on the morning of the 3rd Madeleine says to her "why didn't you come to use when we were crying last night?"

    Jesus wept!!!


  • #1766
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,947 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Slightly off topic here -

    Hotels usually offer a safe for rental or free in the room, purely to satisfy holidaymakers securing their passports/cash cards/currency/jewellery/electronics while on holiday.

    If the apartment was as safe as the McCanns claim (in spite of an abduction disproving that assertion) then their passports and valuables were in the room too - no need for a safe, surely? if its secure enough for their children...

    It would be a disgrace if they had a safe rented, yet wouldnt stretch to a babysitter.

    My theory is that what they are hiding is the fact that none of the Tapas 9 checked their children as often as they claimed, and that some went as far as to sedate the children so that they would not wake up, and therefore spoil the adults night. I believe they were in the habit of leaving their children home alone, not just on this holiday, but on every holiday prior to this, and it became such a normal thing for them that they assume all 'good' parents did it. I believe that the McCanns thwarted the investigation from the very beginnning to protect their gangs rather than their daughter. I dont know how they can live with that.

    How can you still defend this neglect when, as a direct result of you leaving your children alone, one goes missing? The fact is, if there was an adult minding these children, this would not have happened.


  • #1767
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    I think the child simply walked out of the apartment either looking for her parents or just out of innocent curiosity & unfortunately was discovered by some sort of creepy degenerate.

    How could someone get into the apartment without being seen, take the child without waking her siblings & just walk off into the night?

    The shutter at the side of the apartment was pulled right up. This shutter goes very high up off the ground so Maddie would not have been able to do that...


  • #1768
    mariaf24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭mariaf24


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    I think the child simply walked out of the apartment either looking for her parents or just out of innocent curiosity & unfortunately was discovered by some sort of creepy degenerate.

    How could someone get into the apartment without being seen, take the child without waking her siblings & just walk off into the night?

    I always thought that too. If a 3-4 year old woke up (say after a bad dream) they are in a panic for a parent. She could have easily have walked out looking for them and come into the wrong hands.

    I do believe that the McCanns are innocent (I hope) but i still don't fully believe Kate for some reason. I suppose it's easier to claim that the child was abducted rather than wandered out herself, in terms of guilt and accusations of negligence...


  • #1769
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Karona wrote: »
    I dont have the Mc Canns down as caring parents, if you read the timeline of the day that maddie went missing, you'll see they dropped the kids into the kids club while they went off for walks, tennis, etc.

    Why bother bringing your kids on holiday if you are just going to dump them on someone else. It is after all a family holiday.

    :rolleyes: lORDY LORDY!


  • #1770
    Benzino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭Benzino


    I need to rewatch the RTE interview, but it seems Gerry McCann in it claims he proposed the sniffer dogs (which he claims are unreliable). This is also untrue.


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  • #1771
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,893 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Neyite wrote: »
    Slightly off topic here -

    Hotels usually offer a safe for rental or free in the room, purely to satisfy holidaymakers securing their passports/cash cards/currency/jewellery/electronics while on holiday.

    If the apartment was as safe as the McCanns claim (in spite of an abduction disproving that assertion) then their passports and valuables were in the room too - no need for a safe, surely? if its secure enough for their children...

    It would be a disgrace if they had a safe rented, yet wouldnt stretch to a babysitter.

    My theory is that what they are hiding is the fact that none of the Tapas 9 checked their children as often as they claimed, and that some went as far as to sedate the children so that they would not wake up, and therefore spoil the adults night. I believe they were in the habit of leaving their children home alone, not just on this holiday, but on every holiday prior to this, and it became such a normal thing for them that they assume all 'good' parents did it. I believe that the McCanns thwarted the investigation from the very beginnning to protect their gangs rather than their daughter. I dont know how they can live with that.

    How can you still defend this neglect when, as a direct result of you leaving your children alone, one goes missing? The fact is, if there was an adult minding these children, this would not have happened.

    At first i had only sympathy for the McCanns & i still do to certain extent, it obviously must be terrible to have a child go missing.

    But lets face it there is a bit of a lack of parental vigilance in this story. What happened was borderline neglect in my opinion. They are partly to blame for the child disappearing.

    I don't know anyone who would leave 3 kids alone in an apartment in order to get away for drinks at a bar. Its a pretty silly thing to do & unfortunately they have payed the ultimate price.


This discussion has been closed.
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