Are you ashamed of the State's behaviour in the 40's, 50's. 60's & 70's?

CommuterIE · 12-05-2011 11:11PM #1

The Catholic schools... can be any strain... the CBS's, The Magdeline Schools etc... do you blame the State for the abuses or the Institutions (for hiding it in a lot of cases)... I blame the State tbh, it is ultimatley their responsibility... what happened to the victims was gross beyond believe and many living today have very deep scars that they will never overcome.

Praetorian Saighdiuir · 12-05-2011 11:13PM

Its defo you fault!

Daemos · 12-05-2011 11:13PM

Why the fcuk should I feel ashamed for something that happened 50 years before I was born?

ArtSmart · 12-05-2011 11:13PM

em, i think serious threads are banned for the next hours or so.

so my funny bone tells me (course - it's drunk. again)

CreepingDeath · 12-05-2011 11:13PM

We didn't start the fire... it was always burning since the world's been turning.

ElaElaElano · 12-05-2011 11:14PM

Yes, absolutely. The negligence of the state over those years to overlook abuse is fcuking disgusting, and all in the name of a so-called moral institution.

Edit: posted that before the poll came up. If the question is who is to blame- then it's both in equal measure. But the role of the state is to serve and protect its people but what it did was serve and protect the vile behaviour of the church.

Saila · 12-05-2011 11:14PM

is this a "when did you stop beating your wife" type question

easyeason3 · 12-05-2011 11:14PM

I blame any individual in a position to change things or voice concerns that stayed quiet.
State or church. It makes no difference. Wrong is wrong regardless of who you are.

Dudess · 12-05-2011 11:14PM

No, I blame the religious orders first and foremost, then the state. The two were obviously inextricably linked, but the church had the final say - it's frightening how much power the church had in Ireland up to... even the early 90s.

But as for being ashamed myself because of being born here in 1978... er... no?

rockmongrel · 12-05-2011 11:14PM

Both of course! They were each implicit, each equally responsible and guilty.

ArtSmart · 12-05-2011 11:16PM

Saila wrote: »

is this a "when did you stop beating your wife" type question

when she died of course.

Dudess · 12-05-2011 11:16PM

easyeason3 wrote: »

I blame any individual in a position to change things or voice concerns that stayed quiet.

Important part bolded though - there is a terrible scapegoating culture in Ireland.

HavingCrack · 12-05-2011 11:18PM

:mad: I hate these threads, how can I feel ashamed (or proud) of something that happened before I was even born. Unless I have a direct impact upon a particular issue, feeling shame or pride in it happening is just ridiculous.

Senna · 12-05-2011 11:19PM

......80's, 90's and 00's as well. There's plenty of abuse still going on. 12 priests in the 270 cases reported last year are still in ministry (although abuse may not be resent)

DundalkDuffman · 12-05-2011 11:19PM

Why stop at the 70's?

themadchef · 12-05-2011 11:19PM

All we can do is try to make it better for our kids. We cant turn back the clock.

Shame is what got us inot alot of trouble in the first place is it not?

steddyeddy · 12-05-2011 11:20PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

The Catholic schools... can be any strain... the CBS's, The Magdeline Schools etc... do you blame the State for the abuses or the Institutions (for hiding it in a lot of cases)... I blame the State tbh, it is ultimatley their responsibility... what happened to the victims was gross beyond believe and many living today have very deep scars that they will never overcome.

Yes I am indeed ashamed to live in a country were this was allowed. Im ashamed that members of our defense force enabled children to be abused and the fact that it took so long to get recognition for these people!

CommuterIE · 12-05-2011 11:20PM

Daemos wrote: »

Why the fcuk should I feel ashamed for something that happened 50 years before I was born?

So you'ld apply your view to the Catholic Church also I assume... since it happened "50 years ago" which is utter bull**** in itself... I am ashamed at the State in the past, simply because I love this country and I look back in horror at was ALLOWED to happen... that was never what this country ever should've been!

Pauleta · 12-05-2011 11:20PM

The people of Ireland helped the cover up and denial. Its our parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on's fault. Remember this all didnt just happen this century. Its been happening for centuries. Catholics are to blame.

easyeason3 · 12-05-2011 11:22PM

Dudess wrote: »

Important part bolded though - there is a terrible scapegoating culture in Ireland.

Sorry now but scapegoating physical, mental, sexual & emotional abuse is not scapegoating in my book. It's bullying at it's worst. It is basically breaking a person down to the worst that a person can make them in order to satisfy a persons own needs or just not be brave enough to open the can of worms.

Plenty of people knew what went on.

It is 50/ 50.

Dudess · 12-05-2011 11:22PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

So you'ld apply your view to the Catholic Church also I asume... since it happened "50 years ago" which is utter bull**** in itself... I am ashamed at the State in the past, simply because I love this country and I look back in horror at was ALLOWED to happen... that was never what this country ever should've been!

That's your take - other people find it illogical to hold oneself accountable for something in which they had absolutely no role. Other people also aren't particularly swayed either way when it comes to loving or hating the country in which they were born.

Dudess · 12-05-2011 11:25PM

easyeason3 wrote: »

Sorry now but scapegoating physical, mental, sexual & emotional abuse is not scapegoating in my book.

That doesn't even make sense. People are scapegoated - I didn't say anything about abuse being scapegoated. I'm referring to blame being thrown at the wrong people, who in hindsight might have been able to do something - e.g. an employee in an industrial school. It's very easy to point fingers with hindsight though.

CommuterIE · 12-05-2011 11:26PM

Dudess wrote: »

That's your take - other people find it illogical to hold oneself accountable for something in which they had absolutely no role. Other people also aren't particularly swayed either way when it comes to loving or hating the country in which they were born.

Hang on a second, no one thinks for one second they are accountable and I certainly don't... however, this country was founded on principles that were broken non-stop and destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of people... This is what makes me ashamed of those years... that the country I love sank so low!

My name is URL · 12-05-2011 11:27PM

Which came first...

HavingCrack · 12-05-2011 11:27PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

So you'ld apply your view to the Catholic Church also I assume... since it happened "50 years ago" which is utter bull**** in itself... I am ashamed at the State in the past, simply because I love this country and I look back in horror at was ALLOWED to happen... that was never what this country ever should've been!

I actually would hold a similar view to this. If I happened to be a Catholic I suppose I might feel ashamed (but it's by no means a given) but since I am not, feeling ashamed of something that I had no impact upon and happened before I was alive seems absolutely absurd. I actually think the mentality of 'collective guilt' is an extremely dangerous road to start travelling down.

HavingCrack · 12-05-2011 11:28PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Hang on a second, no one thinks for one second they are accountable and I certainly don't... however, this country was founded on principles that were broken non-stop and destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of people... This is what makes me ashamed of those years... that the country I love sank so low!

Ah, ok that was the impression I got from the Op, apologies.

Dudess · 12-05-2011 11:29PM

Pauleta wrote: »

The people of Ireland helped the cover up and denial. Its our parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on's fault.

I presume you've cut ties with the older generations of your family in disgust at their complicitness?

Catholics are to blame.

Narrow that down a tad... Or are you just engaging in your usual attention-seeking sh1t?

KeithAFC · 12-05-2011 11:29PM

The state is what i went for.

steddyeddy · 12-05-2011 11:29PM

I have to correct my post not having any influence on what happened in the past im not ashamed of it but I would be if I didnt learn anything from the the revelations and change my views of certain institutions.

ScumLord · 12-05-2011 11:29PM

But, we're the state.

My name is URL wrote: »

Which came first...

The bishop usually get's first go.

easyeason3 · 12-05-2011 11:30PM

Dudess wrote: »

That doesn't even make sense. People are scapegoated - I didn't say anything about abuse being scapegoated. I'm referring to blame being thrown at the wrong people, who in hindsight might have been able to do something - e.g. an employee in an industrial school. It's very easy to point fingers with hindsight though.

That's a fair point. But how many people did raise concerns? And to who?
I'm guessing if anyone did it would have fallen on deaf ears.

Are you ashamed of the State's behaviour in the 40's, 50's. 60's & 70's?

Who is responsible? 18 votes

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