Very rural Ireland

jmayo · 10-05-2011 10:57am

Clareboy wrote: »

Bad planning is at the root cause of the problems in rural Ireland. By allowing widespread one off housing and uncontrolled ribbon development, the life blood has been drained out of the villages and small towns with the result that many of our traditional settlements are now devoid of essential services. The fabric of many of our towns has been destroyed giving these places an air of dereliction and decay. Due to our scattered pattern of rural housing, we can never have a functioning public trasport system. Basically, we have screwed up big time!

Ah yes lets have a rant about one off rural housing and lay the blame for villages and small towns losing services on them. :rolleyes:

Do you have an effing clue ?
Don't bother answering that. :rolleyes:

In terms of the commerical life of small villages and small towns, they are loosing out to larger towns, where the latest Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl are sucking the retail trade away form the local small shops.

In terms of services, it is more cost effective to close the local small Garda station, postoffice, etc.

Nearly everyone be they the ones living in one off rural houses or living in the actual small towns/villages you speak of, have cars and they travel to the nearest big town to do their business.

So please stop this sh**e of blaming one off rural homes for all the ills that small towns and villages now face. :mad::mad:

Oh and for the other poster who claim that one off rural homes are a drag on resources like water and sewage.
Sunshine most of them are not, since most are either using private water and sewage services. :mad:

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Well I'm from Cork and I think it's amazing that it's the 2nd biggest city in a country. I also think that the fact that the Elysian is the tallest building (17 floors) in the country is amazing as well.

I spent a lot of time living in New Zealand which has a lot of parallels with here. Same size populations, both in the OECD, both with strong agricultural histories and both dominated by one city.

However as can be seen in the tables below there is a massive difference in the drop off after the first city. The top 4 cities in NZ are bigger than Ireland's second city and the top 7 cities in NZ are bigger than Ireland's third city Limerick.

Ehh when was the first town in New Zealand founded ?

Have you travelled in the South Island much ?
For a start half the place is uninhabitable.

Hell the country has only been inhabited for 6 odd centuries and only by western style habitation for the last couple of centuries.
For most of the country farms were only created in the latter half of the 19 century.
They are much larger in scale and the country is much larger meaning there was always going to be a lower population density.
It is much like other places in the New World.

We have had a very rural population base until the latter half of the 20th century and it would have been much higher but for our famine and forced emigration.

So you can't compare us to NZ in this argument.

Cú Giobach · 10-05-2011 10:59am

markpb wrote: »

If those children are taking over the farm or working in the area, that's perfectly fine. If they're driving 60k round trips to get to work, can't socialise without drinking and driving, complaining about the speed of their internet connection or campaigning because the local small hospital, that's a different matter.

We have the technology and ability to fit services around people and this is the way it should be, people should not be forced around services.
We have a population that likes to live in rural areas and what makes a pleasant healthy society is considering peoples needs, not forcing people into situations they do not want.

To see the reality of urbanisation one only has to travel through most of England or Northern Europe (Germany, The Netherlands etc).
If you live in an English city to get to one of these areas of natural beauty people here are going on about, you have to drive for hours through huge traffic jams and endless concrete jungles.
The fact is we still have a pretty unspoilt country and there is no comparing a few holiday homes to the concrete sprawls of other countries.

markpb · 10-05-2011 11:05am

Cú Giobach wrote: »

We have the technology and ability to fit services around people and this is the way it should be, people should not be forced around services.

Electricity, water, sewage, high speed internet connections (wireless is not high speed except in dense areas) are still physical services. Technology doesn't change the need to dig up thousands of miles of roads to provide them.

We have a population that likes to live in rural areas and what makes a pleasant healthy society is considering peoples needs, not forcing people into situations they do not want.

We have a section of the population that wants to live in the country but enjoy the benefits of urban living. The same section complain about garda stations, post offices and hospitals closing. These services aren't cheap to provide.

People like jmayo complain that local shops are closing because people are driving to bigger towns. Maybe if people lived in the small towns instead of all around them, the local shops would do better because could walk to them instead of trying to decide between driving 5 mins and 20 minutes.

Mal-Adjusted · 10-05-2011 11:18am

Cú Giobach wrote: »

50 years ago my neighbours family all lived in one house, 3 generations living together, today members of this family each have their own houses, a total of 4 houses for roughly the same number of people who previously had 1.
Should these people be forced to live in the nearest concrete settlement, or all stuffed into one house, just so tourists can look at green fields (which are actually pretty devoid of wild natural diversity and I personally consider them deserts) instead.

pretty much this. for all the people who complain that houses ruin their view of the countryside, you do realize that it's almost a completely artificial environment right? if you want real Irish wilderness, (if such a thing exists) go to an ancient woodland. there's a bit in Clare and i think Roscommon.
Even Connemara is completely man made.

for people who complain about their taxes subsidizing services on the area
1. my taxes pay for a bus system in Limerick or a tram in Dublin but i never use those.
2. Okay, without being pedantic, it's a moot point anyway because most people in rural areas are either on a group scheme with neighbors or pay for those services individually.

and besides, it's all (or at least for the most part) private land. who should have the bigger say on what goes on there, the owners or Sunday drivers out for a picnic?

jmayo · 10-05-2011 11:21am

markpb wrote: »

Electricity, water, sewage, high speed internet connections (wireless is not high speed except in dense areas) are still physical services. Technology doesn't change the need to dig up thousands of miles of roads to provide them.

You don't get it do you ?
Most of the one off rural houses that you complain about provide their own water and sewage.
So cut that off your list.

Yes they need electricity and telecoms, but I challenge you to find any road in this country that has not been near a electricity line of telephone line for the last 20 or more years.

markpb wrote: »

We have a section of the population that wants to live in the country but enjoy the benefits of urban living. The same section complain about garda stations, post offices and hospitals closing. These services aren't cheap to provide.

FFS why do people drag hospitals into this ?
In rural Mayo my family would live 20 miles from Castlebar and roughly 30 miles from Sligo.
They don't expect a hospital any nearer.
But do you think those hospitals that service towns of 10,000 plus should be shut and everyone should have to drag their sick ar**es to Galway which would be 70 miles plus ?

markpb wrote: »

People like jmayo complain that local shops are closing because people are driving to bigger towns. Maybe if people lived in the small towns instead of all around them, the local shops would do better because could walk to them instead of trying to decide between driving 5 mins and 20 minutes.

You must be a green with your image of innocense of happy rural types strolling down the road with their little shoping bag to the nearest little local shop. :rolleyes:

People are going to go to the nearest Tesco, Dunnes, Lidl, Adli, etc.
They will do big bulky shop.
They will buy their clothes in Dunnes, Heatons, Penneys.
They won't shop in the local draper shop anymore.

Lets turn you argument to the city.
Why do people in Dublin spend half an hour driving through traffic to Dundrum, Liffey Valley, Blanchardstown, Tallaght rather than walk to the Spar around the corner ?

Brussels Sprout · 10-05-2011 11:26am

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Actually it is only amazing if you haven't travelled and seen other countries with very rural populations, or are only beginning to learn about the rest of the world.
Being amazed that a country with a population of 4.2 million has smaller cities than a country of 60 million is naive in the extreme.

I don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest with you about who's travelled more but needless to say I've been all over the world and over a long period of time.

You've also directly mis-represented what I said. Never did I compare Ireland to a country of 60 million people-that I believe was another poster. I compared Ireland to a country of equal population.

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Population density has nothing to do with the urban/rural distribution of people, if we don't have the numbers it doesn't matter how you distribute them the density will not change.
In 1841 the population of Ireland was 8 million (containing almost 1/3 the pop of the UK), a density of 114 per sq/km,
The pop of Britain was 18.5 mill a density of 76 per sq/km
Today the density here is 60 per sq/km and in Britain 246 per sq/km

Well actually population density is directly linked to the urban/rural distribution. Do you honestly think that Ireland could have kept increasing it's famine-era population whilst maintaining a small urban population?

You simply cannot have a population density similar to Britain's without having a larger proportion of the population as urban dwellers.

To say that we could have the same population density as Britain whilst having a countryside full of people (who aren't living in poverty) is simply not correct.

Brussels Sprout · 10-05-2011 11:38am

jmayo wrote: »

So you can't compare us to NZ in this argument.

I wasn't comparing Ireland to NZ in terms of population density. That would have been ridiculous considering it's four times the size of Ireland.

I was comparing the sizes of the cities outside of Dublin and Auckland.

Cú Giobach · 10-05-2011 11:44am

markpb wrote: »

Electricity, water, sewage, high speed internet connections (wireless is not high speed except in dense areas) are still physical services. Technology doesn't change the need to dig up thousands of miles of roads to provide them.

There are very few spots on this island that are away from the electric grid, very few indeed.
As was said earlier most isolated houses have their own water and sewage systems, that the people themselves pay for.
Nobody who lives isolated expects special cables to be laid especially for their internet and the vast phone line network as technology advances will be sufficient for most people who choose this life.
This "thousands of miles of digging" is utter rubbish.

We have a section of the population that wants to live in the country but enjoy the benefits of urban living. The same section complain about garda stations, post offices and hospitals closing. These services aren't cheap to provide.

No they are not cheap but neither are they prohibitively expensive, and they are what a modern developed society should provide for people.
The fact is Ireland is a very small island, nowhere is really isolated and supplying these things is not as expensive as in many other countries with much more scattered populations.

People like jmayo complain that local shops are closing because people are driving to bigger towns. Maybe if people lived in the small towns instead of all around them, the local shops would do better because could walk to them instead of trying to decide between driving 5 mins and 20 minutes.

The problem with shops and businesses closing has more to do with globalisation and peoples desire for good looking but cheap and tasteless food, than people not living on top of each other.

jmayo · 10-05-2011 11:44am

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I wasn't comparing Ireland to NZ in terms of population density. That would have been ridiculous considering it's four times the size of Ireland.

I was comparing the sizes of the cities outside of Dublin and Auckland.

Fair enough, but again you have to look at the historic settlement of the country and the South Island in particular.
You have larger towns out near the coast with not very major towns/cities inland.
There was never a huge rurual population like here because the country was settled at a time when urbanisation had become the norm.

ei.sdraob · 10-05-2011 11:45am

@jmayo is right there is quite a bit of ignorance displayed on this thread,
from own rural experience

* sewage - had to install own sewage treatment plant (mucho $$), water coming out the other end keeping the lawn green is cleaner than **** they supply to Galway city :P
* water - community scheme had to pay install fee (mucho $$) water is hard and needs filtering
* electricity - large connection fee despite several poles less than 30m away for neighbouring homes
* roads - i pay the top rate of tax you insensitive clod for my v8

i wish the money was actually used to repair the "roads" on which you barely fit 2 cars side by side or loose a wheel in the potholes
*internet - 2mbit wireless broadband, no complaints, works well, low pings, not as great or cheap as UPC but hey I get my IT work done ok
* heating - oil, wood/turf stove and solar water heaters

did I miss anything? People in rural Ireland do pay more for the infrastructure and services, as several people here have mentioned already.

Cú Giobach · 10-05-2011 12:17pm

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

You've also directly mis-represented what I said. Never did I compare Ireland to a country of 60 million people-that I believe was another poster. I compared Ireland to a country of equal population.

Roughly equal population but nearly 4 times the size, with huge amounts of uninhabitable land, and was only occupied by indigenous tribal peoples until very recently.
Not a good comparison.

Well actually population density is directly linked to the urban/rural distribution.

No it isn't population density is the population of a country divided by the area of that country eg 4,200,000 people divided into 70,000 sq/kms = 60 people per sq/km.
You are thinking of the respective densities of rural and urban areas which was not what I said in the original statement you quoted. I was clearly talking about the population densities of the respective islands.

Do you honestly think that Ireland could have kept increasing it's famine-era population whilst maintaining a small urban population?

Of course not, which is why I never mentioned nor hinted at anything remotely like that :rolleyes:

You simply cannot have a population density similar to Britain's without having a larger proportion of the population as urban dwellers.

Obviously.

To say that we could have the same population density as Britain whilst having a countryside full of people (who aren't living in poverty) is simply not correct.

I believe that is why nobody has said any such thing.

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 12:28pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

* electricity - large connection fee despite several poles less than 30m away for neighbouring homes

Rural electricity services are still in effect subsidised due to PSOs.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

* roads - i pay the top rate of tax you insensitive clod for my v8 i wish the money was actually used to repair the "roads" on which you barely fit 2 cars side by side or loose a wheel in the potholes

Motor tax isn't for the maintenance and upkeep of roads, it's for local government.

ei.sdraob · 10-05-2011 1:01pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Rural electricity services are still in effect subsidised due to PSOs.

The electic bill levies subsidise wind and turf. Rural customers also pay higher standing charges

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Motor tax isn't for the maintenance and upkeep of roads, it's for local government.

Is it not the job of local governments to upkeep the local roads?
and not just motor tax, petrol/diesel is used which 2/3rds tax

bk · 10-05-2011 1:02pm

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

for people who complain about their taxes subsidizing services on the area
1. my taxes pay for a bus system in Limerick or a tram in Dublin but i never use those.

Actually, no they don't and that is the problem.

Dublin and the other urban areas are net exporters of tax money to rural areas of Ireland.

In other words, 100% of tax raised in urban areas of Ireland isn't spent on those areas. I don't have exact figures, but something like only 80% of the money raised in Dublin is spent in Dublin. The other 20% goes to subsidise services and infrastructure in rural areas of Ireland.

Dublin only seems to get more services because so many people live in a small area, their taxes can be more effectively invested in services like Luas.

The increased tax subsidies received in rural areas have less noticeable effect, as the tax money has to be spread across such a large, low density area.

A fairer system would be 100% of your tax money gets spent in the area you live in. But this would effectively mean less services and infrastructure for rural areas and more in urban areas.

invinciblePRSTV · 10-05-2011 1:19pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The electic bill levies subsidise wind and turf. Rural customers also pay higher standing charges

The PSO is there to subsidise the cost of electricity delivery in rural areas, that's the stated aim.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Is it not the job of local governments to upkeep the local roads?

It is, but motor tax is used as a general slush fund for all sorts of LA projects, not roads specifically. And seeing as the lions share of motor tax is paid in the the State's urban areas........

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and not just motor tax, petrol/diesel is used which 2/3rds tax

Yeah but that's not for roads, that goes into general expenditure. And again the majority share of that would be paid by people living in and around the state's urban areas.

Cú Giobach · 10-05-2011 1:35pm

bk wrote: »

A fairer system would be 100% of your tax money gets spent in the area you live in. But this would effectively mean less services and infrastructure for rural areas and more in urban areas.

It should also mean some parts of Dublin should have more than others based on their output.
To bring this to its logical conclusion then surely it should be on an individual level and each person gets a "percentage" based on what they add to the economy.
Such a system would gradually split and fracture society and we would end up resembling something from the middle ages.

The whole point of having the country we call Ireland is to take the whole as one entity and just as parts of Dublin are more productive than others so parts of Ireland produce more than others, but we all reap the rewards of the combined productivity of Ireland.

Batsy · 10-05-2011 1:38pm

HivemindXX wrote: »

The problem is that for every person posting here that ribbon development is bad there's at least one person somewhere complaining that the planning board has no right to restrict where they put their house.

To the poster from Bolton....nobody in Dublin has a problem recognising that Cork is nothing more than a small city.

(that's a joke Cork people, please don't lynch me, I love Cork honestly!)

Whatever about Ireland being a rural country, even though Cork (and Galway and Belfast) are relatively small cities, you can't claim that people who live in them are anything other than urban dwellers.

Compared to many other Western countries, the Republic of Ireland is comparatively rural.

Only 60% of the Republic's population lives in urban areas and 40% lives in rural areas.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0712/1224274512053.html

In the US, around 80% of people lives in urban areas and 20% lives in rural areas.

In the UK, around 90% of the population lives in urban area and just 10% lives in rural areas.

Mal-Adjusted · 10-05-2011 6:30pm

bk wrote: »

Actually, no they don't and that is the problem.

Actually, yes they do. all out taxes go into the same pot & that pot is where the money for these services comes from. no matter where you are, you're going to pay the same amount of tax towards a service you never use as someone on the other end of the country.

oh, and thanks for conveniently ignoring the part where i stated that most rural houses pay for their services themselves :rolleyes:

Pete_Cavan · 10-05-2011 7:36pm

jmayo wrote: »

You don't get it do you ?
Most of the one off rural houses that you complain about provide their own water and sewage.
So cut that off your list.

Group Water Schemes have their costs subsidised. See Its back on the list. And I very much doubt "Most of the one off rural houses" provide their own water and sewage.

jmayo wrote: »

Yes they need electricity and telecoms, but I challenge you to find any road in this country that has not been near a electricity line of telephone line for the last 20 or more years.

Once again the five houses on a back road in the middle of nowhere did not pay the full cost of providing those electricity lines and telephone lines. If people had to pay the full costs of these services they would not be living in one off houses.

murphaph · 10-05-2011 10:14pm

Clareboy wrote: »

Anytime that I travel in the UK, I am always amazed at the glorious unspoilt countryside and beautifully conserved towns and villages that exist in a country with a population of over 60 million. Here in Ireland, as a result of disasterous planning policies, we have completely lost that sense of countryside. It was an awful pity that we did not adopt planning policies similar to those in the UK and have proper national parks and designated areas of outstanding natural beauty.

Totally agree. I remember I bought a motorbike in Sheffield on eBay one time and flew in to Manchester airport and took a train over the pennines. It was completely desolate and breathtakingly beautiful. This was the contryside between 2 cities of well over a million people each. The English have realised that such countryside is precious and deserve full credit for protecting it.

I have just come back from a short tour around South Kerry and West Cork. Cork has done a better job of it but neither county is as special as the likes of the Pennines, the lake district or most of Wales. Faaar too many one offs, usually in tasteless styles.

Very sad to see what has happened to our country. The countryside doesn't belong to rural dwellers. It belongs to all of us and urban dwellers have every right to make comment on land use in rural Ireland.

Cú Giobach · 10-05-2011 10:27pm

murphaph wrote: »

The countryside doesn't belong to rural dwellers.

I think you will find most of it does.

Jo King · 10-05-2011 10:36pm

jmayo wrote: »

A
Nearly everyone be they the ones living in one off rural houses or living in the actual small towns/villages you speak of, have cars and they travel to the nearest big town to do their business.

that is exactly the problem, people are totally car dependent in these areas consuming vast amounts of fuel just to do normal things like go to school, play sports visit shops, doctors etc.. In France people live in a village, walk to school, or to see the doctor, or the pub and so on.

jmayo wrote: »

A
We have had a very rural population base until the latter half of the 20th century and it would have been much higher but for our famine and forced emigration.

So you can't compare us to NZ in this argument.

a famine was inevitable sooner or later. The only way the large population was maintained was by continual subdivision of the land. This could not continue ad infinitum. The land was becoming exhausted from overuse and even before the famine, some landlords were beginning to clear holdings and consolidate them. The policies of the land commission in the early 20th century of allocating farms of 25 acres enabled a rural-based population to live at subsistence levels in relatively large numbers. These holdings or not viable and were extremely poor use of the land from agricultural point of view. The problem now is that each holder of a small farm of that era has now produced many descendants all of whom believe that they have a God-given right to build a house on that land even if it is 3 miles from the nearest village.
many group water schemes in Ireland of poor quality water and there are many environmental problems caused by the proliferation of septic tanks.

cailinardthair · 10-05-2011 10:45pm

Jo King wrote: »

that is exactly the problem, people are totally car dependent in these areas consuming vast amounts of fuel just to do normal things like go to school, play sports visit shops, doctors etc.. In France people live in a village, walk to school, or to see the doctor, or the pub and so on.

People in this country are car dependent anyway! you listen to the radio during the week at rush hour and a city car is on the go more often than one in the country. The transport system is crap all OVER the country. Im from a rural area. but live in Galway...i walk everywhere because the bus system is crap. our train system is to expensive. If we had a proper transport system in geranal there be less cars
Not everyone in France lives in town.....like here they live in or near it but there lucky not have ghost estates!

cailinardthair · 10-05-2011 10:55pm

murphaph wrote: »

Very sad to see what has happened to our country. The countryside doesn't belong to rural dwellers. It belongs to all of us and urban dwellers have every right to make comment on land use in rural Ireland.

Im going to assume you come from an urban area whether its a town or city and in some since the countryside is for everyone to an extent!! But you haven't made your life in that area and thats where your ownership stops!!! How can you justify having a say in any a privately owned area if you dont know it!!

This country has made the problem not the people who live in rural areas. Everyone is entitled to live where they like but due to the boom there is a load of empty ghost estates and abandoned buildings not in rural areas but in tiny towns.

I come from Connamara. I love where I live. I have never found one off housing as a detraction when in any rural area when traveling. Maybe because im not looking for it!

Jo King · 10-05-2011 11:02pm

cailinardthair wrote: »

People in this country are car dependent anyway! you listen to the radio during the week at rush hour and a city car is on the go more often than one in the country. The transport system is crap all OVER the country. Im from a rural area. but live in Galway...i walk everywhere because the bus system is crap. our train system is to expensive. If we had a proper transport system in geranal there be less cars
Not everyone in France lives in town.....like here they live in or near it but there lucky not have ghost estates!

the cities are not well-planned either. However there is some chance of pulling in good transport in a city where there is a high-density of population.the Dart and the Luas networks in Dublin work because there are a large number of people who can and do avail of them.there will ever be proper transport in rural areas as there are too few people to justify the cost of providing. People might live near towns in France but they don't live between towns and strung out up boreens. at least you can walk everywhere because you live in a city. how much time is spent by ambulances finding people in townlands in the middle of the night because they want to live miles from civilisation.

cailinardthair · 10-05-2011 11:16pm

Jo King wrote: »

the cities are not well-planned either. However there is some chance of pulling in good transport in a city where there is a high-density of population.the Dart and the Luas networks in Dublin work because there are a large number of people who can and do avail of them.there will ever be proper transport in rural areas as there are too few people to justify the cost of providing. People might live near towns in France but they don't live between towns and strung out up boreens. at least you can walk everywhere because you live in a city. how much time is spent by ambulances finding people in townlands in the middle of the night because they want to live miles from civilisation.

Id prefer a bus than standing in the rain....it is Ireland:rolleyes:

As for Dublin I only go a few times a year so i cant really comment, but the bus system there is grand!
As for transport depending where you are in the country is different! we have one bus in the morning five days a week! we lost a day due to less people! We accepted that we wont get the best service but we have it and were not going to complain! but its still comes down to price at the end of the day!

Where my boyfriend is from they lost a couple of bus service due to lack of demand to certain areas! the services are looked at due to supply and demand like anything else in the country.

John_Rambo · 10-05-2011 11:28pm

bk wrote: »

A fairer system would be 100% of your tax money gets spent in the area you live in

This would mean nothing for rural Ireland. Rural Ireland can't survive without Dublin money at the moment.

Did you see The Frontline last night? The figures are amazing. On average every Dublin person contributes over €4000 per year. On average every person in the midlands and the West receives over €4000 per year.

Hopefully things will change. Communities need to be revived and rebuilt, local produce needs to be produced and bought locally. Home grown business needs to be supported.

Kosseegan · 11-05-2011 11:34am

cailinardthair wrote: »

Id prefer a bus than standing in the rain....it is Ireland:rolleyes:

As for Dublin I only go a few times a year so i cant really comment, but the bus system there is grand!
As for transport depending where you are in the country is different! we have one bus in the morning five days a week! we lost a day due to less people! We accepted that we wont get the best service but we have it and were not going to complain! but its still comes down to price at the end of the day!

Where my boyfriend is from they lost a couple of bus service due to lack of demand to certain areas! the services are looked at due to supply and demand like anything else in the country.

That is why people should live in reasonable size communities. Services can be provided where ther are people. I live near a busy bus route with a lot of apartment blocks on it. Buses pass every few minutes, with plenty of paying passengers.

GisforGrenade · 11-05-2011 11:56am

As a person raised in the countryside, I can't really see the point of one off housing unless you are engaged in agriculture. Near my home place half way up a mountain a family are renovating an old farmhouse which is madness because they are not farmers and the farm is never going to be used again. If you think of the expense and isolation they are going to experience it just doesn't make sense to be working in a town or village then driving home 20 miles away halfway up a mountain.

If you are a farmer yes you need to live close to your property but if you are working in town you shouldn't be living miles away in the country, its bad for the environment and your pocket. Also in some of these once off houses the children don't even make use of the wide open spaces, their parents aren't home to supervise them, so they are confined to small gardens or stay inside and play computer games. That has changed dramatically from my childhood and that's less than 20 years ago. Yes the scenery in the countryside is beautiful but is it worth the expense, isolation and the very destruction of the country side as well?

Godge · 11-05-2011 2:03pm

Cú Giobach wrote: »

We have the technology and ability to fit services around people and this is the way it should be, people should not be forced around services.

For one minute, I will accept that you are right and we have the technology and ability to fit services around people. The problem is, we don't have the money. Whether it is to bring public transport, broadband, hospital services, post or electiricity to one-off houses on top of mountains, the state cannot afford to do so. Given the way our lust for property (be it stupid one-bedroom apartments only big enough to be hotel rooms or stupid ugly one-off monstrosities in Killaloe) has ruined the country (the bankers did need our help to waste the money), we just cannot afford to sustain our dispersed mode of living.

Wait for the next few years. You will see more rural bank branches close, you will see more rural post offices close, you will see more small schools close, you will see more rural pubs close, you will see more hospital closures (and thank God for that, there have been too many lives lost and mistakes made because of small hospitals), you will see GPs consolidate into shared practices in large towns as is happening already in cities, rural pharmacies will follow, public transport will be reduced (study the way the Dublin Bus Network review is attempting to focus on busy routes), you will see local authorities prioritise road maintenance to busy routes (if your road wasn't cleared of snow last winter, the potholes won't be fixed in three years time), you will see private telecoms and tv providers focus on delivery to the masses with the state unable to pick up the cost of delivery to the tops of mountains, you will be left with a Spar that will charge as much as it can while not so much that you travel 20 miles somewhere else for a pint of milk. That is the future of rural Ireland (and I haven't mentioned the cost of petrol or electicity for the electric car).

People will be left sitting in their house on the side of the hill, with nothing to do and nowhere to go with only their connection to the electricity pole that DeValera sent their way in the 1930s/50s, their well out the back and the seeping septic tank that the company can't get up the hill to empty because of the state of the roads in winter.

I don't envy them at all. Enjoy while you can.

Very rural Ireland

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