The Leinster Way of Rugby

Teferi · 08-05-2011 03:11AM

In fairness, red at a Leinster game. I'd expect a few comments...

CatFromHue · 08-05-2011 03:31AM

in fairness are you and leo 12!

myflipflops · 08-05-2011 05:37AM

Irish sports fans by their nature are pretty fickle and fair weathered. The best marketing Munster and Leinster can do is to continue to succeed on the pitch.

If either side had a couple of seasons of mid table obscurity in the Magners League and group stage knock outs in the Heineken Cup, you will see a big reduction in interest across the board. Fortunately, I think both provinces have the structures in place to ensure this won't happen.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 08-05-2011 10:35AM

myflipflops wrote: »

Irish sports fans by their nature are pretty fickle and fair weathered. The best marketing Munster and Leinster can do is to continue to succeed on the pitch.

If either side had a couple of seasons of mid table obscurity in the Magners League and group stage knock outs in the Heineken Cup, you will see a big reduction in interest across the board. Fortunately, I think both provinces have the structures in place to ensure this won't happen.

definitely true, Munster's average attendance are down 17% or so this season after getting knocked out in the group stages of the HEC

EDIT extra game in musgrave could have caused part of the drop, and the rest could be explained by having an extra two total fixtures

copacetic · 08-05-2011 11:04AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

28 year old catfromhue is wearing his 09 lions jersey with pride as he is a mega, yes a mega lions fan.

along comes leo the lion and procedes to mock catfromhue about his red lions jersey being like a munster jersey. queue the laughter from all around at catfromhue's situation. catfromhue first went to games in donnybrook in the 01/02 season and first went to games in lansdowne in the 97/98 season.

the resentment still runs deep!

I'd say that one was well deserved myself. If you are around that long you must have seen piles of Munster fans over the years wearing Lions jerseys in lieu of the Munster one.

irishbucsfan · 08-05-2011 11:30AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

ha!

let me tell you a tale

28 year old catfromhue is comfortably sitting 6 rows back from the front in the south terrace of the rds at the start of the 09/10 season.

28 year old catfromhue is wearing his 09 lions jersey with pride as he is a mega, yes a mega lions fan.

along comes leo the lion and procedes to mock catfromhue about his red lions jersey being like a munster jersey. queue the laughter from all around at catfromhue's situation. catfromhue first went to games in donnybrook in the 01/02 season and first went to games in lansdowne in the 97/98 season.

the resentment still runs deep!

Surely Leinster fans should know not to wear red at a Munster/Leinster match?

As for the OP. I really really hope "The Leinster Way" doesn't catch on. Sounds so pretentious, just asking to be hated by other Irish rugby fans.

GerM · 08-05-2011 11:36AM

copacetic wrote: »

I'd say that one was well deserved myself. If you are around that long you must have seen piles of Munster fans over the years wearing Lions jerseys in lieu of the Munster one.

Nah, it's a jersey representing a number of areas one of which is Leinster. I wouldn't have any issue with someone wearing Lions gear to a Leinster game unless the opposition were wearing red. Of course it's preferable they wear blue but it's their choice. The only issue people have with it is that it's the same colour as a Munster jersey. Would like to think that if someone went to Thomond wearing an Auckland Blues top, they wouldn't get the piss taken out of them because it's a similar colour to Leinster's jersey.

The former mascot for Leinster could be a tool. I've seen him taking the piss out of several people who were clearly uncomfortable and his party trick in Donnybrook used be walking up to to opposition fans in the terraces and banging his drum in their faces. He took the whole thing a bit too seriously.

phog · 08-05-2011 11:41AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

definitely true, Munster's average attendance are down 17% or so this season after getting knocked out in the group stages of the HEC

EDIT extra game in musgrave could have caused part of the drop, and the rest could be explained by having an extra two total fixtures

Have you noticed there's a recession, it's hard to lose that amount of jobs and the knockon effect it has on disposable money and people leaving the country without clubs and fans being hit.

Teferi · 08-05-2011 11:49AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

in fairness are you and leo 12!

Jaysus, you're obviously very touchy. Relax yourself there. We'll get the wahmbulance for you.

Foxtrol · 08-05-2011 11:59AM

David900 wrote: »

I'm no marketing expert but I think the Munster brand is more effective than the Leinster one. Leinster to me really seems to incorporate things that they should be seeking to leave behind. Some of the things they do play on old stereotypes that they should be trying to drop.

In my opinion Munster and Leinster marketing have been targeting at two completely separate markets when aiming to gain new fan base.

Munsters marketing has focused on the pushing values that are tightly linked with the GAA, with each of "pride", "passion", "honesty", "players from the parish" you'd hear repeatedly mentioned during GAA match coverage. This along with the urban myth that they managed to generate that rugby is a working mans game in Munster has allowed it to garner support from many fans from many GAA territories that at one stage would have had reservations about supporting rugby.

Leinsters focus has actually been to a great extent aimed at children which in the long term could reap benefits. The whole match day experience seems to be directed more towards a young audience and in this way they're breaking into new markets as the children grow up, while also gaining the support of adults who might bring along with their kids with very little knowledge about the game themselves. Leinster dont have the option of leaving "the old stereotypes behind" as their training base, offices, both stadiums and a decent proportion of their fan base is in south dublin. Trying to distance themselves from this would be like Munster trying to disassociate itself from Limerick in the hope of gaining fans from other provinces. Their marketing has not hid from this but instead has tried to show that though a proportion of the team are from Dublin theres still a large number of players from all over the province and as such "they're you're team and you should go out and support them no matter what part of the province you're from".

Both teams have/are improving their match day facilities which assists greatly in keeping fans traveling back after their initial visit. As many have mentioned already the key thing the provinces need to do is to keep on winning as can be seen time & time again, success breeds more fans.

GerM · 08-05-2011 12:10PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Look at the production quality of this. It didn't come cheap and it's excellent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3pjHEAvd-Q8#at=25

First time I've ever seen that....they'd want to up their marketing! :pac:

You also have to remember the starting points of the relative products. When things started taking off 10 years ago Leinster had little to draw upon aside from snide comments in relation to the make up of their fans and players whilst Munster had the All Blacks game and an image of working class heroes to build on. Don't underestimate the role Sky played in all of this too. I think they were the most significant factor in expanding the Munster brand in the past decade. They built their HEC coverage on them and brought them to a massive audience. They gave them the prime slot in their coverage for years and ensured the fixture list was arranged to give their pools dramatic finishes. Note how this has changed in the past 2 years since the crown has slipped and they've become a harder team to market to their audience.

Leinster were starting years behind Munster due to those factors. A massive amount of the population in Leinster didn't want to be associated with the team in any way due to the historical culture of rugby in the province. This was the case right up until 3 or 4 years ago. The turnaround in that time has been nothing short of remarkable when you look at it in those terms.

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2011 12:57PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Munsters marketing has focused on the pushing values that are tightly linked with the GAA, with each of "pride", "passion", "honesty", "players from the parish" you'd hear repeatedly mentioned during GAA match coverage. This along with the urban myth that they managed to generate that rugby is a working mans game in Munster has allowed it to garner support from many fans from many GAA territories that at one stage would have had reservations about supporting rugby.

It's not a myth. Cork rugby may have centred around CBC and PBC in the past, but Limerick rugby has never been a game for the elite.

Donnielighto · 08-05-2011 01:09PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's not a myth. Cork rugby may have centred around CBC and PBC in the past, but Limerick rugby has never been a game for the elite.

He said Munster, not Limerick, you are looking to market at an entire province, not just one portion of.

Donnielighto · 08-05-2011 01:11PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Surely Leinster fans should know not to wear red at a Munster/Leinster match?

As for the OP. I really really hope "The Leinster Way" doesn't catch on. Sounds so pretentious, just asking to be hated by other Irish rugby fans.

How do you see it as being pretentious? Promotion is grand as long as it doesn't come with arrogance.

CatFromHue · 08-05-2011 01:33PM

it was a lions jersey at leinsters first home game the next season after the tour to sa, home to the dragons i think.

its quite different than a munster jersey.

Quint2010 · 08-05-2011 01:53PM

The U17 team referred to in the article contained 8 players from one school. Anyone hazard a guess at which school?..

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2011 02:02PM

Donnielighto wrote: »

He said Munster, not Limerick, you are looking to market at an entire province, not just one portion of.

Yes, I read what he said. Munster rugby has in the past been primarily a game played in the private schools in Cork, and an everyman's game in Limerick. To say that they created a 'myth' that it is a working man's game ignores the fact that - for one of the twin centres of Munster rugby - it always has been.

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2011 02:02PM

Quint2010 wrote: »

The U17 team referred to in the article contained 8 players from one school. Anyone hazard a guess at which school?..

Hogwarts?

Donnielighto · 08-05-2011 02:05PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, I read what he said. Munster rugby has in the past been primarily a game played in the private schools in Cork, and an everyman's game in Limerick. To say that they created a 'myth' that it is a working man's game ignores the fact that - for one of the twin centres of Munster rugby - it always has been.

To say that it is a working man's game isn't right htough, it is nearly all encompassing in munster in terms of social strata and focusing on one, as munster have done does an injustice to others if you dont recognise that it is a marketing ploy.

crisco10 · 08-05-2011 02:12PM

For all the impressive marketing by both teams. The most important and effective marketing is done by the 22 players on the pitch. A winning team attracts attention. In the press, in merchandise sales, in match attendances etc. Marketing teams can only do a fraction of the work. That said I hope leinsters focus on children will promote more die hard fans in 10 years who will attend all games regardless of performance.

Quint2010 · 08-05-2011 02:16PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Hogwarts?

How did you guess?..:)

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2011 02:26PM

Donnielighto wrote: »

To say that it is a working man's game isn't right htough, it is nearly all encompassing in munster in terms of social strata and focusing on one, as munster have done does an injustice to others if you dont recognise that it is a marketing ploy.

To be honest, I haven't noticed anything in association with Munster rugby or the marketing therof which suggests it's only for 'working men', or it's only for any particular group. The reality is as I stated it earlier. They are now trying to expand the game geographically around the province, and to all social groups.

Can anyone provide any evidence of this deliberate 'myth-making' regarding who plays rugby, or exclusionary marketing?

Foxtrol · 08-05-2011 02:46PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, I read what he said. Munster rugby has in the past been primarily a game played in the private schools in Cork, and an everyman's game in Limerick. To say that they created a 'myth' that it is a working man's game ignores the fact that - for one of the twin centres of Munster rugby - it always has been.

Munster rugby being a working mans game is just as much a myth as Leinster Rugby being solely a game for posh rich lads from south dublin. The simple truth is that both sides now have a following in a lot of different demographics throughout their provinces.

I'm not ignoring the fact that it would be more an everyman's game in Limerick, I'm pointing out that if anything the marketing team at Munster have (very cleverly) been the ones ignoring the other side of Munster Rugby. They've been playing up the working class element while pretending that a large proportion of their team and supporters do not come from quite well off backgrounds.

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2011 02:49PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not ignoring the fact that it would be more an everyman's game in Limerick, I'm pointing out that if anything the marketing team at Munster have (very cleverly) been the ones ignoring the other side of Munster Rugby. They've been playing up the working class element while pretending that a large proportion of their team and supporters do not come from quite well off backgrounds.

I'm going to have to ask you to back that up with some evidence, or I'm going to conclude that this is a wind-up. How in the name of Christ do they play up the 'working-class'-ness of Munster rugby?

Links to videos or pictures of ads would be quite acceptable.

John_Rambo · 08-05-2011 02:52PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Can anyone provide any evidence of this deliberate 'myth-making' regarding who plays rugby, or exclusionary marketing?

Excellent point, and, I doubt it. Most of that shyte is typed on forums like this to be honest, I guess we are all a little guilty of bitchiness when in front of the keyboard, Gerry Thornley included! I hear all accents at Leinster matches from Wexford, North Dublin to the lads from Louth sitting next to me at the last Munster v Leinster match. We were chatting to a Munster supporter before hand, he was a doctor, his wife had a pic of Johnny Sexton holding her grandson on her phone... So it's all bollix really.

Thornley's article is interesting, he just capped it with a bitchy little title for some reason.

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2011 02:55PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I hear all accents at Leinster matches from Wexford, North Dublin to the lads from Louth sitting next to me at the last Munster v Leinster match

I'm not surprised. When I lived in Dublin I used to go to the Leinster games, and seemed a lot more interested in Leinster's success than the people around me, at least insofar as I was actually following the game.

wixfjord · 08-05-2011 02:58PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

To be honest, I haven't noticed anything in association with Munster rugby or the marketing therof which suggests it's only for 'working men', or it's only for any particular group. The reality is as I stated it earlier. They are now trying to expand the game geographically around the province, and to all social groups.

Can anyone provide any evidence of this deliberate 'myth-making' regarding who plays rugby, or exclusionary marketing?

Definitely some element of truth to it though lads. I'm from Wexford, and rugby is still seen in many quarters as a game that posh people and Protestants play. You only have to look at names on the first teams to decipher this.

However, this is changing dramatically in the last 10-15 years, particularly in the younger ranks, and rugby has taken over as the Winter sport for many who see soccer as an awfully boring and terribly dour game, and it's great to see. The more Sean O Briens that come through the better. However, I would say that there could be much more done in schools around the province too.

John_Rambo · 08-05-2011 03:13PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

at least insofar as I was actually following the game.

You will get that everywhere. Munster, Leinster, Biarritz... to some it's not all about the rugby, it's a family day out, a photo with the team mascot, it's a chance to score, they go for the atmosphere, they go to meet old friends, it's a chance to spend some time with your Da or Ma. It's rugby, not mass!

Foxtrol · 08-05-2011 03:23PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm going to have to ask you to back that up with some evidence, or I'm going to conclude that this is a wind-up. How in the name of Christ do they play up the 'working-class'-ness of Munster rugby?

Links to videos or pictures of ads would be quite acceptable.

Clearly they dont come out with bill boards saying that "Munster - We're Working Class", but it has been built up as a myth for years through the the Munster Brand. The best way to build a brand is subconsciously and Munster have done that extremely well over the years. This has obviously been assisted by the media and players (current and ex) who have helped build the narrative that Munster is a working mans team.

If you want an example just look at the Thomond Park video someone linked earlier and listen to the phraseology and watch the images used and honestly tell me that it doesn't play up the "working-class-ness" while ignoring the upper-class element of Munster Rugby.

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2011 03:27PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Clearly they dont come out with bill boards saying that "Munster - We're Working Class", but it has been built up as a myth for years through the the Munster Brand.

Well I must be pretty dumb, because I never got that message at all. I got a more 'rugby is for everyone' vibe. And bear in mind the people in the team that you might characterise as 'upper class' include ROG, Strings, POC, MOD, TOL and various others. Not exactly Lord Snooty types, are they? And that's what most of the products of the CBC and PBC are like - they are a different breed to the Blackrock/Gonzaga/what have you lads.

The Leinster Way of Rugby

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