USA! USA!

CommuterIE · 03-05-2011 10:50PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I'm not all that concerned about Bin Laden's death.

What I am concerned about - and what is always a constant concern when it comes to the USA - is their constant, blatant disregard for human rights.

Oh talk straight will ya? What about the human rights record these countries had before they got there??

Downlinz · 03-05-2011 10:51PM

Sure the germans do this? I'd heard Germans were very reserved about their national pride.

landsleaving · 03-05-2011 10:51PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The Americans go to the Olympics to win gold medals. We go as it's all about partaking in the games. They have a winning attitude winning we could do with.

They also put far too much credence on athletic achievement, which I'm sure encourages the youngsters to participate, and a larger pool of athletes.

D1stant · 03-05-2011 10:51PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Why do so many Irish have a problem with patriotism?

So Americans like to be patriotic by flying the stars and stripes outside their houses... the British also do this, as do the French, Germans etc...

The Irish don't, and why the f*** not??? Have you people not got a sense of pride and dignity about your country? There is something very wrong about this country!

Why are Americans proud? Seriously OP - I'd really like to know

I mean its not culture, not history, not cuisine, not intellect, not compassion, not equal rights, not leading social policy, not enlightened foreign policy and certainly not vanity

I've been to the US maybe 50 times. With few exceptions the US is a dump. 2 years ago I witnessed 2 homeless guys on Hollywood boulevard fighting over food from a public bin. Some of it fell on Clarke Gables star. The American dream my bum

landsleaving · 03-05-2011 10:52PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Oh talk straight will ya? What about the human rights record these countries had before they got there??

Shooting at them to force them to be more civilised doesn't make an enormous amount of sense though, does it?

Toby Take a Bow · 03-05-2011 10:53PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

What America did to itself on Monday was to inject more pride into itself, and I can gaurantee every single American will rejoice at it, and rightly so.

You can't guarantee that. Especially when a relative of one of those who died in 911 spoke out against the rejoicing and whooping so close to ground zero.

America doesn't base it's pride on the battlefield... fundamental to the Americans is the "American Dream"... which is a middle class family in a humble home...

A dream which is unattainable to most. But if you're constantly striving for an unattainable dream, it'll be less likely that you'll stop, look around, band together and be all the stronger for it.

CommuterIE · 03-05-2011 10:55PM

D1stant wrote: »

Why are Americans proud? Seriously OP - I'd really like to know

I mean its not culture, not history, not cuisine, not intellect, not compassion, not equal rights, not leading social policy, not enlightened foreign policy and certainly not vanity

I've been to the US maybe 50 times. With few exceptions the US is a dump. 2 years ago I witnessed 2 homeless guys on Hollywood boulevard fighting over food from a public bin. Some of it fell on Clarke Gables star. The American dream my bum

What places were you to???? I witnessed loads of homeless guys in many different cities... some people are very desperate in a country of nearly 400 million!!! We have our desparate side of society to... granted they don't have the social welfare we have (THE BEST IN THE ****ING WORLD!)

NTMK · 03-05-2011 10:56PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Oh talk straight will ya? What about the human rights record these countries had before they got there??

probably about the same as the rights that they give in gitmo so tell me with around 1 million people dead in both wars what human rights have improved in those countries and what good has it done the world? I'm half american but FFS nothing and i repeated Nothing good has come from those two wars

Dudess · 03-05-2011 10:57PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

He only orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, the USS Coleman attack and numerous others... yes he was going to be shot dead on-sight, get with reality!

I am with reality - you're the one who feels emotions should dictate. I'm assuming the Americans broke international law?

D1stant wrote: »

Why are Americans proud? Seriously OP - I'd really like to know

I mean its not culture, not history, not cuisine, not intellect, not compassion, not equal rights, not leading social policy, not enlightened foreign policy and certainly not vanity

I've been to the US maybe 50 times. With few exceptions the US is a dump. 2 years ago I witnessed 2 homeless guys on Hollywood boulevard fighting over food from a public bin. Some of it fell on Clarke Gables star. The American dream my bum

I wholeheartedly disagree. America's got its flaws but it has plenty of positives too. I think it's disingenuous to question what good things it has to offer.

PK2008 · 03-05-2011 10:57PM

I think America has a lot to be proud of. Their history in terms of justice and championing human rights is actually a good one (one of the best), the problem is modern American culture doesnt really celebrate the great things America has achieved.

It tends to celebrate the 'might over right', tough guy gangster culture. Its in all their current media- the idea of the 'Tony Soprano' type alpha male superiority.

Which is such a pity when they had really great orators and political minds (see below); to me they seem to becoming more insular and regressive in their politics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Vll-t0H6A

CommuterIE · 03-05-2011 10:58PM

NTMK wrote: »

probably about the same as the rights that they give in gitmo so tell me with around 1 million people dead in both wars what human rights have improved in those countries and what good has it done the world? I'm half american but FFS nothing and i repeated Nothing good has come from those two wars

The prisoners in Gitmo are there for a reason, they are by no means innocent... in fact if it wasn't for intelligence from there, Bin Laden wouldn't have been caught on Monday... I disagree with Gitmo and believe they should be trialed in federal court

starbelgrade · 03-05-2011 10:59PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Oh talk straight will ya? What about the human rights record these countries had before they got there??

It is possible for armed forces to help foreign nations enforce laws that protect human rights. The USA have aided countries in such efforts on many occassions but they have also been constantly guilty of giving with one hand and taking with the other...

- Imprisoning people in Guantanamo
- Imprisoning conscientious objectors in the USA
- Abu Ghraib prison abuse
- Extraordinary rendition

etc

chickenbutt · 03-05-2011 11:01PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I think Ireland had a lot going for it, not that you'd know it by reading the constant drone of whinging threads started about the place.

And unlike America, our sense of pride is not always based on a common bonding over wars & the deaths of others.

What America did on Monday is little to be proud of, let alone to be shouting about.

Americans take pride in many things, and bond over more than just "wars & the deaths of others." How many times has the destructive forces of nature ripped through towns and cities and left families devastated and torn apart? Every single time this happens, I can 100% guarantee you that Americans band together to help their neighbors and complete strangers to recover. Despite what everyone thinks, not all Americans are bloodthirsty mongrels. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of patriotism.

Bullseye1 · 03-05-2011 11:01PM

The one thing America doesn't have but which we have in abudence is begrudgery. It's a great country.

But it does have some lousy foreign policy. But most of Europe ain't exactly a beaming light.

Killer Wench · 03-05-2011 11:01PM

D1stant wrote: »

Why are Americans proud? Seriously OP - I'd really like to know

I mean its not culture, not history, not cuisine, not intellect, not compassion, not equal rights, not leading social policy, not enlightened foreign policy and certainly not vanity

I've been to the US maybe 50 times. With few exceptions the US is a dump. 2 years ago I witnessed 2 homeless guys on Hollywood boulevard fighting over food from a public bin. Some of it fell on Clarke Gables star. The American dream my bum

Funny. I remember walking past the Times Building and seeing images of President Obama and Martin Luther King, Jr. along the wall. When I went up to Belfast and participated in a walking tour, the tour guide approached me and told me how much the Civil Rights Era in the States was such a personal motivation for him and many of his peers. I remember going to a bar in Temple Bar to listen to Karaoke and hearing many, many Irish people singing not just songs by American artists, but R&B classics by Otis Redding and Al Green. Or, just scrolling through multiple forums and seeing sub-boards dedicated to American tv shows (there's a bigger following of The Wire here than in the States, I reckon).

Yeah, I'm totally not buying the whole "it's not culture, not history, blah blah blah". The US may have its problems but there seems to be a lot of goods things that people across the world do admire and appreciate.

tjones64 · 03-05-2011 11:02PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVdU2eVYSg

D1stant · 03-05-2011 11:03PM

Dudess wrote: »

I wholeheartedly disagree. America's got its flaws but it has plenty of positives too. I think it's disingenuous to question what good things it has to offer.

Disingenuous how?

I am merely asking the OP as to why he is proud. As I have spent time in many parts of the US and do not share that high regard

NTMK · 03-05-2011 11:03PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

The prisoners in Gitmo are there for a reason, they are by no means innocent... in fact if it wasn't for intelligence from there, Bin Laden wouldn't have been caught on Monday... I disagree with Gitmo and belive they should be trialed in federal court

quite a few are innocent

Link

Predator_ · 03-05-2011 11:04PM

^ Invading idiot. Native Americans own that land

CommuterIE · 03-05-2011 11:05PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

It is possible for armed forces to help foreign nations enforce laws that protect human rights. The USA have aided countries in such efforts on many occassions but they have also been constantly guilty of giving with one hand and taking with the other...

- Imprisoning people in Guantanamo
- Imprisoning conscientious objectors in the USA
- Abu Ghraib prison abuse
- Extraordinary rendition

etc

The Abu-Graib scandel is nothing you wouldn't expect from a war-zone. Anyone who thinks differently is naive to the extreme. They were disgusting soldiers and were held to account.

The others were simply about national security... and I don't believe for a second that anyone picked up had nothing to answer for...

WallyGUFC · 03-05-2011 11:05PM

Saila wrote: »

OLE OLE OLE OLE.....OLEEE OOLE

DOLÉ DOLÉ DOLÉ DOLÉ....DOLÉÉÉ DOOLÉ!

starbelgrade · 03-05-2011 11:06PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

The US may have its problems but there seems to be a lot of goods things that people across the world do admire and appreciate.

America is without doubt, a fabulous nation, with a hell of a lot going for it. It doesn't have the same history that Europe (for example) does, but what it lacks in that area, it makes up for in it's richness of modern culture.

The only thing that fucks up the USA in world terms is it's insane foreign policies & seeming willingness to invade other countries at the drop of a hat.

W.Shakes-Beer · 03-05-2011 11:07PM

Theres an Irish flag that hangs out my back garden. been there for years. Its one of them things you put on the car for Paddy's day.

GaelMonfils · 03-05-2011 11:09PM

America = greed = power = capitalism = slavery for 95% of the planet.

Slaves never get anywhere.

Dudess · 03-05-2011 11:09PM

D1stant wrote: »

Disingenuous how?

I am merely asking the OP as to why he is proud. As I have spent time in many parts of the US and do not share that high regard

Well you said "It's not culture" - really? Cinema, theatre, literature, television, music - hell of a lot of good stuff from these categories has come from the USA.

starbelgrade wrote: »

America is without doubt, a fabulous nation, with a hell of a lot going for it. It doesn't have the same history that Europe (for example) does, but what it lacks in that area, it makes up for in it's richness of modern culture.

The only thing that fucks up the USA in world terms is it's insane foreign policies & seeming willingness to invade other countries at the drop of a hat.

And the social inequality, which is shocking...

NTMK · 03-05-2011 11:10PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

The Abu-Graib scandel is nothing you wouldn't expect from a war-zone. Anyone who thinks differently is naive to the extreme. They were disgusting soldiers and were held to account.

The others were simply about national security... and I don't believe for a second that anyone picked up had nothing to answer for...

as a developed nation who "claim" to take the moral high ground against terrorists torturing civilians is not the way to go

starbelgrade · 03-05-2011 11:10PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

The Abu-Graib scandel is nothing you wouldn't expect from a war-zone. Anyone who thinks differently is naive to the extreme. They were disgusting soldiers and were held to account.

The others were simply about national security... and I don't believe for a second that anyone picked up had nothing to answer for...

National security, my hole.

That term has become a catch all phrase for the States to do whatever the fuck it wants, wherever the fuck it wants. And all over what was - in global terms & in historic terms - a miniscule number of people killed in a terrorist attack.

National security is just a by word for ripping up the rule book on the human rights of anyone the USA deems to be a "threat".

Killer Wench · 03-05-2011 11:11PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

America is without doubt, a fabulous nation, with a hell of a lot going for it. It doesn't have the same history that Europe (for example) does, but what it lacks in that area, it makes up for in it's richness of modern culture.

That is such Eurocentric crap. Sorry, but it is. Our history may not be centuries old buildings, or recorded stories, but you can't negate the thousands of years of history, culture, and community that existed in America prior to European arrival. And, those cultures and communities survive today, maybe not as large as they should have been, but they exist today. And, don't forget that it was due to these indigenous cultures that such things as potatos and chocolate were cultivated.

CommuterIE · 03-05-2011 11:11PM

NTMK wrote: »

as a developed nation who "claim" to take the moral high ground against terrorists torturing civilians is not the way to go

Naive

Sorry but you are

LondonIrish90 · 03-05-2011 11:11PM

America lacks the history, culture and identity which defines the majority of european nations. The American population hold their flag in such high regard because it is what they believe represents their country and unity. They use it to remind themselves they are one people, because in reality they are a mix of people from everywhere under the sun, still trying to forge a common identity.

They lack the thousand year old systems of governance and justice, and the castles, palaces, fortresses and cathedrals you find across Europe which give us a sense of our past and our heritage.

USA! USA!

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