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Emigration to Europe

  • 03-05-2011 05:26PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 564 ✭✭✭2ygb4cmqetsjhx


    I am thinking about looking for work in another country but I'm not that interested in going to America or Australia. I am wondering say if I were to emigrate to somewhere like the Netherlands, France or Sweden or somewhere would it be possible to learn the languages quickly? Have any of you done it? How long does it take to become proficient and be able to read local news papers etc. I don't want to be an alien and feel stupid. Obviously for a while I'd only be able to speak English but I think I could learn.

    Going to Europe just seems like a much better option in terms of visas etc. Don't need to worry about that. And they are not far away? Just wondering has anyone ****ed off to france and learned the langauge from scratch within a reasonable timeframe. There are tonnes of jobs in my field in all of these places. In Germany for example there doesn't even seem to be a recession!

    Emigrants I want your experinece learning languages and working in Europe.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    I'd like to do the same but I'm shyte at languages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    I went to Denmark and tried to learn a bit of Danish. It was f'n impossible.

    I know someone over there and he's been learning, still a long, long way from fluency.

    I'd say German might be easiest to learn, since it's closest to English (as far as I know, linguists, prepare to attack with your semantics!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 946 ✭✭✭Predalien


    Not a personal experience but a friend of mine who had bad leaving cert french moved over there and was pretty much fluent within six months.

    If you can afford to move over for a bit with enough saved to keep you going until you get a job I say go for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Not much help from me, i went to an english speaking country...

    But I hear german is fairly easy to learn, very like english.

    i think I'd be more tempted by southern europe though, somehwre you could be dealing with tourists where your english would be an asset perhaps?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    Germany or one of the Baltic countries...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,796 ✭✭✭✭The Princess Bride


    Have some friends who went to Netherlands ,with no dutch and learnt lingo relatively quickly-( some still live there decade later) most natives speak english anyway.
    Also friends who went to France- and did likewise.
    If babies can be multilingual,methinks adults could surely learn if they put their mind to it.
    Bon chance!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 564 ✭✭✭2ygb4cmqetsjhx


    I went to Denmark and tried to learn a bit of Danish. It was f'n impossible.

    I know someone over there and he's been learning, still a long, long way from fluency.

    I'd say German might be easiest to learn, since it's closest to English (as far as I know, linguists, prepare to attack with your semantics!)

    Still getting by though? How long has he been there?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,796 ✭✭✭✭The Princess Bride


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    I'd like to do the same but I'm shyte at languages.

    Really?:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Still getting by though? How long has he been there?

    I think about 6 years now, everyone speaks fluent English there though, so that makes it a lot easier, probably makes actually learning Danish easy to avoid as well mind.

    It's a great place to live by all accounts, I was talking to loads of people who emigrated there from here, the UK, America and China while I was there and they all love it, and mostly had little Danish, so you could get by without being fluent.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    msthe80s wrote: »
    Really?:rolleyes:

    Swear filter, smart a**e.

    :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭malkmoose


    Moved to Helsinki recently, starting to learn Finnish but very hard especially because everyone is so good at English and are eager to practice their English with a native speaker. I am at an instant disadvantage when it comes to looking for work as most employers ask for native Finnish as part of their requirements, luckily I came over to work for a company that uses English as their business language. My advise would be to apply for work in the country you are interested in before you go and move over to a job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭cosmicfart


    I havent bothered looking at this thread, I just LOLLED at the OPs name LOL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    msthe80s wrote: »
    Have some friends who went to Netherlands ,with no dutch and learnt lingo relatively quickly-( some still live there decade later) most natives speak english anyway.
    Also friends who went to France- and did likewise.
    If babies can be multilingual,methinks adults could surely learn if they put their mind to it.
    Bon chance!
    Kids learn languages much faster than any adult. Past a certain age it becomes increasingly hard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭JohnMearsheimer


    I always loved the thought of moving to Italy or the south of France. Shame I'm crap at languages though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭TaraFoxglove


    msthe80s wrote: »
    If babies can be multilingual,methinks adults could surely learn if they put their mind to it.

    Well yeah, but very young children soak up languages so it's not exactly the same. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭Ouchette


    Swedish is way easier than German and very closely related to English. Word order is mostly the same as English and the grammar kind of goes "I am, you am, he/she am, we am, they am". None of that complicated verb conjugation rubbish. You'd probably be reasonably proficient in a few months.

    Finnish though.. different story. Got a mate who moved there and she's great at languages but Finnish is insane and not like English at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Spanish is an easy enough language to learn. If you learn the basic rules of pronunciation of Spanish, you can read anything as all the words are pronounced phonetically.

    Understanding what you are reading is a bit more difficult, but it's very doable.

    The trick with learning any language is just to immerse yourself in it & try to avoid hanging around with English speaking people for the majority of the time, otherwise you'll learn nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭Coeurdepirate


    Ouchette wrote: »
    Swedish is way easier than German and very closely related to English. Word order is mostly the same as English and the grammar kind of goes "I am, you am, he/she am, we am, they am". None of that complicated verb conjugation rubbish. You'd probably be reasonably proficient in a few months.

    Finnish though.. different story. Got a mate who moved there and she's great at languages but Finnish is insane and not like English at all.

    +1

    I have to say it's a relatively easy language for English speakers compared to others. WAY easier than Irish, considerably easier than French.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Apanachi


    I moved to Germany a long time ago and became fluent very fast. When it comes to learning a new language, you have to make sure to use whatever little you know, incorporating any new words you learn into your speech and be adamant that the natives speak to you in their language, most people abroad are only to happy to practise their english on you, defeating the purpose of learning a new language.

    When I first moved here I lived directly on the Danish border, that language is so hard to speak, they have the weirdest accents - it's like talking with a hot potato in your mouth, on the other hand, the language itself is easy enough to learn, just the pronunciation of the words is hard. I watched a lot of Danish TV when I first moved to Germany as most TV series/films are in English with Danish subtitles and it's amazing how much Danish I actually learned (to read, not speak)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭Saila


    mmmmmmm.. daniiiiish


  • Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm crap at languages... Which doens't bode well for me trying to learn Vietnamese. 6 fuking tones for each word. For European speakers, it's one of the most difficult in the world.. Even Mandarin only has 4 tones. Eg. Pronounce "pho" wrong and instead of noodle soup, you say prostitute.
    I still can't pronounce one of the girl's names after a few weeks so I've resorted to calling her Sarah.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭Azureus


    Im in the process of getting together basic Spanish and I want to travel around/possibly live in South America one day-Id rather have the basics before getting there otherwise Id feel lost. Im gonna do a few little trips to Spain aswell just to get a bit of confidence with it. I hope... :s
    My friend from Argentina is probably joining me on at least one of these to laugh at how shocking my attempts are.

    I only have leaving cert French aswell though, and I find from using it ocassionally to native speakers in work the last few months its improved tenfold! Its all about the confidence ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    German is an easy language to learn, a hard one to master. How quick you become fluent will depend on how you approach it. My first job in Germany was working for an American multinational and all business was conducted through English. German was spoken in the office but everyone spoke English to me. I picked up the basics but not enough. I then worked for a German company. Initially people spoke to me in English but I insisted I could speak German and shortly afterwards everyone was speaking to me in only German. My German improved very quickly from there. Try and have a basic understanding of the native language before you go, otherwise people will speak only English with you and it will take much longer to grasp the language.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Emigrants I want your experinece learning languages and working in Europe.

    Pick your country and do some language courses before you go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 374 ✭✭Cliona99


    Don't lose hope, read these:

    http://zenhabits.net/fluent/

    http://www.fluentin3months.com/

    Benny the Irish polyglot says you can become fluent in three months if you really put your mind to it :)

    Good luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Cliona99 wrote: »
    Benny the Irish polyglot says you can become fluent in three months if you really put your mind to it :)

    Benny is talking through his backside. You may become conversant enough to survive a holiday, basic meetings etc. but there's not a hope you are going to become 'fluent'. Fluent is one of the most misused words in the English language.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    prinz wrote: »
    Benny is talking through his backside. You may become conversant enough to survive a holiday, basic meetings etc. but there's not a hope you are going to become 'fluent'. Fluent is one of the most misused words in the English language.

    I suppose it's possible if you've got a brain the size of a pumpkin, and can store in three months what one of the natives has spent 20 odd years learning.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,226 ✭✭✭Solair


    I've lived on the continent an to be quite honest, the cultural differences are usually vastly overstated and, in reality, you'll find most of Europe pretty similar to home, once you crack the language barrier.

    The main thing you need to be sure of is that you are prepared to and have an ability to pick up a language. This can be quite a bit of work and you will need to actually open the books, preferably and crack the grammar when you are there. It's not all that difficult when you are actually totally immersed in a language to do that as the grammar and vocabulary suddenly makes sense as you're hearing it and using it every day.

    Simply picking it up on the fly will give you enough to get by, but you will not get the details right without formal classes and study.

    If you're looking at some of the Northern European countries where English is widely spoken as a second language e.g. Scandinavia & Finland and the Netherlands, then you might struggle somewhat to pick up languages as you simply won't get the opportunity to practice. My experience of the Dutch is they will kind of turn around and go "I speak English! FFS!" when you're trying to practice your Dutch.

    The situation in France is that basically they speak about as much English as we speak French, so you'll learn fast.
    Spain's the same! Don't expect *any* English outside of the coastal resorts.
    Germany, likewise, people do speak English but you certainly will have to learn German to get by on a normal basis.

    Depending on your ability, and it does vary a lot from person to person, it could take you anything from 12 months to 5 years to become proficient in a language. It also very much depends on how different the target language is from English. For example, you're unlikely to pick up say Finnish or Hungarian very quickly as they're radically different from most European languages. Most English speakers will pick up Swedish/Danish/Norwegian, Dutch, German, French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese quite quickly. The Germanic languages share a common root with English so, once you crack the vocabulary the grammar and structure tends to feel fairly familiar. French, Spanish and the romance languages are also very familiar as English has a huge chunk of Latin (particularly French-origin) vocabulary and most of us have been exposed to French at school.
    When you look at Slavic languages, you won't really be very familiar and you'll have to do a lot of learning of basics.

    Closer European languages also have the advantage of having similar phonemes (basic sounds) to English. Or, at least they're similar enough to survive using proximate ones from English, although your accent will sound very foreign. After a certain age, your brain stops recognising anything other than the phonemes in your native language(s). So, many people can find it quite difficult to crack the sound system in other languages after childhood. However, it can be done, particularly if you're totally immersed in a language all the time. Again, some people lose this ability more than other as they age. If you've a musical ear, or you're a good mimic / pick up accents easily, you're quite likely not to have a huge problem with this.

    One thing that can be very worth doing is to do an English-teaching qualification, particularly CELTA (at UCC or International House in Dublin) before you travel. It only takes a few weeks, but it can be a useful source of income while you're building up your new language. However, don't expect to be able to make a huge income out of it.

    To teach in many countries, you will need at least this AND an undergraduate degree.

    It can be a good money-spinner while you're setting yourself up and acclimatising though.

    Just be ware that there are loads of scam-like English teaching qualifications out there which aren't recognised. So, seek advice from ACELS (Advisory Council for English Language Schools) if you're looking at something that isn't from Cambridge (CELTA/DELTA etc) http://www.acels.ie/

    Also, bare in mind that you can have vast variations between regions in EU countries. E.g. if you take our nearest neighbour, compare say London, Newcastle and Glasgow, they're very different places. The same kinds of differences apply in all EU countries and certain cities can also have very difficult accents and dialects, so ALWAYS seek local advice / advise from a national of that country living in Ireland before you go :D

    The main thing is, if you do go, throw yourself into the local culture and just absorb and be part of it and you'll get on really well!

    The absolute worst thing you can do in the long term is spend your time hanging out with the local Irish/Brits and Americans all the time. Some people seem to exclusively hang out with expats and, they never really manage to connect with their new surrounding sand language.


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  • Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Lilly Cold Gorilla


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I suppose it's possible if you've got a brain the size of a pumpkin, and can store in three months what one of the natives has spent 20 odd years learning.

    Which is not the case for Benny :D It's impressive how easily he gets the basics down, but that's all he does. He's good at pretending he speaks languages, IMO.

    I think the key factor here is motivation. If you have a genuine interest in a language, you'll learn it. If you're doing it because you have to or you think you should, it'll be an uphill struggle.


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