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John Waters: "Dublin never quite seceded from the British empire"

245

Comments

  • #32
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Opelfruit wrote: »
    Well there you go, you've proved the point. That's the exact kind of stereotype of Irishness I had to contend with when living in the UK. It's the same stereotype Dubliners have of Irish people, expcept instead of Paddy and Mick, Dubliners use Bogger and Culchie.

    Big time. Dubliners would see themselves as having more in common to Liverpool than Limerick.


  • #33
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    Opelfruit wrote: »
    Well there you go, you've proved the point. That's the exact kind of stereotype of Irishness I had to contend with when living in the UK. It's the same stereotype Dubliners have of Irish people, expcept instead of Paddy and Mick, Dubliners use Bogger and Culchie.

    Bollox. Dubliner's mock people from outside Dublin in the same way as people from outside Dublin mock Dubliner's. Its all tongue in cheek, unless you are an extremely sensitive soul who is unable to see the humour in things.

    Walters seems to be saying that Dubliner's are not Irish enough to be considered properly Irish. His view of Irishness seems to be something similar to what oplefruit described.


  • #34
    smokedeels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    dvpower wrote: »

    tl;dr: Dubliners aren't really Irish at all, just a bunch of West Brits really.
    ?

    tbf, I don't speak Irish, I'm not Catholic, I don't identify with any Irish political party and I am not involved in the community in any form. I don't like much of our indigenous music or literature (as in, I like others more)

    I just happen to live in Ireland, nothing about me makes me "Irish” and I wouldn’t live anywhere in this country other than Dublin.

    I didn't read the entire article because it's.... well, boring, but he's probably got a point...


  • #35
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I like England but yeah, im proud to be on this island. Never said i was shamed of it. Just different political views to most people here. But thats ok. :)


    Which is it Keith,proud to be Irish or British.I suppose you have the best of both worlds.Have you got both passports?


  • #36
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Kevin Myers must have phoned in sick.


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  • #37
    tonycascarino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭tonycascarino


    Opelfruit wrote: »
    I know Dubliners whose parents are from the countryside yet they look down on "boggers"

    Very true. It's strange carry on.


  • #38
    Aldebaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Aldebaran


    Opelfruit wrote: »
    Well there you go, you've proved the point. That's the exact kind of stereotype of Irishness I had to contend with when living in the UK. It's the same stereotype Dubliners have of Irish people, expcept instead of Paddy and Mick, Dubliners use Bogger and Culchie.

    I don't see how I proved any point of yours?

    My point was that you can't claim that Dubliners aren't 'like Irish people' when they very clearly are, unless you have some very narrow definition of what an Irish person is.

    And don't you see how you too are guilty of stereotyping Dubliners in much the same way as you claim Dubliners stereotype country people?


  • #39
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I like England but yeah, im proud to be on this island. Never said i was shamed of it. Just different political views to most people here. But thats ok. :)

    Keith is the type of Irishman who whom the term 'West Brit' is a compliment.


  • #40
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    super_furry wrote: »
    Kevin Myers must have phoned in sick. the article
    FYP

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #41
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    Big time. Dubliners would see themselves as having more in common to Liverpool than Limerick.

    And I suppose you have checked that with the lot of us, aye?


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  • #42
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    Big time. Dubliners would see themselves as having more in common to Liverpool than Limerick.
    In what ways?


  • #43
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭optogirl


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    John waters... If your reading this I hope you know that I think you are a silly prick.

    As a dubliner I am a proud Irishman and I am most definitely not a west brit. As are most people I know.


    This attitude that Dubliners somehow go out of their way to be British and 'look down' on people from other counties is simply incorrect. Firstly we had no influence on how our city was used or influenced when part of the empire. We were born into a Republic and are as Irish as anybody else regardless of county.

    Secondly, yes, there are ignorant pigs in Dublin who think they are superior to everybody else based on the county they were born in however this is true of every county. Dubs get tarnished with the old 'Ye think ye are better than us' boll*x time and again despite it not being true. My father (a Cavan man) once pointed out that anyone who actually believes this to be true simply has issues with their own identity & an inferiority complex which they can only vocalise by shouting loudly about how Dubs/Corkonians/Londoners 'think they're better than me'.


  • #44
    Krusader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Krusader


    I agree in part with what he wrote, we are becoming to anglo-centric, Galway would have been a better place to have the capital and when i become ruler of ireland i shall move it there


  • #45
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,385 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Wibbs wrote: »
    FYP

    Nah, Kev opts for a 'Ireland is backward and most be closer to England' style of trolling.


  • #46
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    I love this. Cork mocks Kerry, Dublin, Waterford. Waterford mocks Kilkenny, Cork, Wexford. Kilkenny mocks Waterford, Cork, Tipp. All fine as its a bit of rivalry and all in good humour.

    Dublin mocks anyone and they are West Brits who are ignorant, not really Irish and would be out waving the Union Jack if they could.

    Hypocrisy at its best.


  • #47
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    dvpower wrote: »
    Keith is the type of Irishman who whom the term 'West Brit' is a compliment.

    Why shouldn't he? Is it supposed to be offensive?

    I must have missed the part where Irish people became different, better human beings to those from the island a short boat ride away.


  • #48
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭optogirl


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't he? Is it supposed to be offensive?

    I must have missed the part where Irish people became different, better human beings to those from the island a short boat ride away.


    Not better but yes, different. You wouldn't like to be called Australian would ya?


  • #49
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    John waters... If your reading this I hope you know that I think you are a silly prick.

    As a dubliner I am a proud Irishman and I am most definitely not a west brit. As are most people I know.
    Orando Broom wrote: »
    Big time. Dubliners would see themselves as having more in common to Liverpool than Limerick.


    Interestingly, I did a quick search of DrumSteve's posting history as I had my suspicions when I saw "proud Irishman" next to "Dubliner" used by somebody who posts in Afterhours and sure enough he's a regular poster on the British soccer fora (469 posts!), and seems to have a particular interest in the soccer team in the city of ... Liverpool.

    John Waters is just being honest. There's a mass of vociferous people in Dublin who are obsessed with what goes on in Britain. They bore the pants off most of us, particular with their British soccer obsession. The world may be a very big place, but all these people do is follow events in that single country. If they followed Spanish, Italian or Brazilian soccer that would show some independence of mind. They don't. It's all anglocentric thinking coming out of that quarter of Dublin. Just look at the way the Dublin-based media is going on today about this British royal family. Depressing, myopic stuff. Cringe, cultural cringe.


  • #50
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    This is one of those ironic threads were Dubliners go up in arms about being called West Brits or "not Irish" yet in another thread they enjoy the spoils of the Royal Wedding.

    Will wonders never cease.


  • #51
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭optogirl


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Interestingly, I did a quick search of DrumSteve's posting history as I had my suspicions when I saw "proud Irishman" next to "Dubliner" used by somebody who posts in Afterhours and sure enough he's a regular poster on the British soccer fora (469 posts!), and seems to have a particular interest in the soccer team in the city of ... Liverpool.

    John Waters is just being honest. There's a mass of vociferous people in Dublin who are obsessed with what goes on in Britain. They bore the pants off most of us, particular with their British soccer obsession. The world may be a very big place, but all these people do is follow events in that single country. If they followed Spanish, Italian or Brazilian soccer that would show some independence of mind. They don't. It's all anglocentric thinking coming out of that quarter of Dublin. Just look at the way the Dublin-based media is going on today about this British royal family. Depressing, myopic stuff. Cringe, cultural cringe.

    Or maybe it's because people like soccer and growing up the most coverage and exposure they got was to English teams. You can enjoy sports from another country without being 'obsessed' with that nation. So what if somebody supports an English football team? I don't understand why people get their knickers in a twist over this.


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  • #52
    Aldebaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Aldebaran


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Interestingly, I did a quick search of DrumSteve's posting history as I had my suspicions when I saw "proud Irishman" next to "Dubliner" used by somebody who posts in Afterhours and sure enough he's a regular poster on the British soccer fora (469 posts!), and seems to have a particular interest in the soccer team in the city of ... Liverpool.

    John Waters is just being honest. There's a mass of vociferous people in Dublin who are obsessed with what goes on in Britain. They bore the pants off most of us, particular with their British soccer obsession. The world may be a very big place, but all these people do is follow events in that single country. If they followed Spanish, Italian or Brazilian soccer that would show some independence of mind. They don't. It's all anglocentric thinking coming out of that quarter of Dublin. Just look at the way the Dublin-based media is going on today about this British royal family. Depressing, myopic stuff. Cringe, cultural cringe.

    Just thought I'd point out that a hell of a lot of people from the country follow British soccer too.


  • #53
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭optogirl


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    This is one of those ironic threads were Dubliners go up in arms about being called West Brits or "not Irish" yet in another thread they enjoy the spoils of the Royal Wedding.

    Will wonders never cease.


    so in conclusion:
    *only Dubs watched the royal wedding.
    *Watching the royal wedding makes you British
    *all Dubs who watched the wedding posted in the related thread and then came onto this one 'up in arms' about being called British
    * you don't understand the terms irony or wonder


  • #54
    Krusader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Krusader


    optogirl wrote: »
    Or maybe it's because people like soccer and growing up the most coverage and exposure they got was to English teams. You can enjoy sports from another country without being 'obsessed' with that nation. So what if somebody supports an English football team? I don't understand why people get their knickers in a twist over this.

    You missed the point of his post, me thinks,


  • #55
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    optogirl wrote: »
    Not better but yes, different. You wouldn't like to be called Australian would ya?

    Where is the humiliation in being different? What a strange phrase to use as an insult. In fact I think it must only be for the person who is using it to reassure themselves that they are more correct or better than those they say it to.

    I would hardly see it as an insult if it was Australian culture (:D) and daily life, sports, tv, music etc that interested me. It would mean I had a great affection for the country and to be labelled as one of them wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

    Maybe if he was suggesting people were Nazis or rapists then it may be a bit offensive, but British? Dear oh dear.


  • #56
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't he? Is it supposed to be offensive?
    The term 'West Brit' is generally suppposed to be offensive of course.

    Keith can, of course, identify himself as Ulster Scot or British Irish or even West Brit. It doesn't make him a lesser Irish person than anyone else.


  • #57
    BrockSamson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭BrockSamson


    In the 5th Century, the fierce Saxon and Angle tribes migrated to England and pushed the ancient Britons to the frontiers of the island. The noble Waters family are descendants of these invading tribesmen

    Anglo-Saxons is the term often used to describe the invading Germanic tribes in the south and east of Great Britain from the early 5th century AD, and their creation of the English nation

    looks like his ancestors formed the english nation maybe he should write about that :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


  • #58
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Moderrn day Patrick Kavanagh really. Bitter culchie savant with a bee in his bonnet about the smoke. That said; at least Paddy didn't write brutal eurovison songs or get dumped by Sinead O'Connor.


  • #59
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭optogirl


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Where is the humiliation in being different? What a strange phrase to use as an insult. In fact I think it must only be for the person who is using it to reassure themselves that they are more correct or better than those they say it to.

    I would hardly see it as an insult if it was Australian culture (:D) and daily life, sports, tv, music etc that interested me. It would mean I had a great affection for the country and to be labelled as one of them wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

    Maybe if he was suggesting people were Nazis or rapists then it may be a bit offensive, but British? Dear oh dear.

    Nobody mentioned humiliation? I think most people, from every country, are proud of their own nationality or at least would make it clear if somebody mistook them for another. You wouldn't expect a Canadian to be happily known as an American or a Pakistani person to be happy to be called an Indian


  • #60
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    optogirl wrote: »
    so in conclusion:
    *only Dubs watched the royal wedding.
    *Watching the royal wedding makes you British
    *all Dubs who watched the wedding posted in the related thread and then came onto this one 'up in arms' about being called British
    * you don't understand the terms irony or wonder

    No.

    I said the same Dubliners that proclaim to be up in arms about being called "unirish" are the same people that condemn Irishness in its entirety. Also the same people who enjoying the royal wedding.

    Also please look up the definitions of those words before you as somebody else to.


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  • #61
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Interestingly, I did a quick search of DrumSteve's posting history as I had my suspicions when I saw "proud Irishman" next to "Dubliner" used by somebody who posts in Afterhours and sure enough he's a regular poster on the British soccer fora (469 posts!), and seems to have a particular interest in the soccer team in the city of ... Liverpool.

    Well done on checking my posting history Sherlock. Your Blue Peter badge is winging its way to you as we converse.

    A) It's not the British Soccer Forum. It's the Soccer forum. I'm sure many of the regulars would be happy to confirm that for you.

    B1) Following an English football team is not mutually exclusive with being a proud Irishman and Dubliner.

    B2) I follow Football not just Liverpool. I've regularly attend Bohs matches since about 91/92 and will be there tonight against Derry in Dalymount. I also consider myself to be a fan of Barcelona having been to a few games there too. But hey let's not that get in the way of your fine argument.

    I take exception to the article printed in the OP's post, as if somehow Dublin is stuck in the past and secretely wants to be back in the UK. This is bull****.

    It's this kind of small minded ****e that pisses me off.


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