Plastic Paddies, What's Your View??

brummytom · 20-04-2011 03:38PM

prinz wrote: »

Do you have to have a hometown? You qualify as "Irish" Irish. :pac: I don't mind anyone with a serious connection to the country describing themselves as Irish (actual Irish ancestors/lived a long period of their lives here etc) if that's what they identify with.

People with no tanglible connection to the country whatsoever calling themselves Irish is another matter.

I've never heard of anyone with no connection to Ireland at all describe themselves as Irish. They should be shot.

But, just out of interest, how much Irish ancestry is required for you to consider people Irish? I, for example, have 3 Irish grandparents. One was English, but considered himself Irish because both of his parents were. When he married my nan (from Dublin), he was hated by her family (all ex 'RA members!) for being English, even though he didn't identify himself to be.

My parents are both English, but on the census put their heritage down as Irish. Everyone I know has at least one Irish grandparent, I used to play gaelic at primary but I'm not very sporty so I stopped. I play trad music and regularly go to sessions with 'real Irish' people. Should I stop? Am I too English to be allowed?

SharpshooterTom · 20-04-2011 03:50PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

That's a tough one alright, I'd probably argue your hometown is Ipswich or that you're at least English as you spent your formative years there. It's a very grey topic though.

This is the problem most people in Ipswich wouldn't regard me as an Ipswich person. Wasn't born there, no family/relations from there, I was considered a "blow in" even then and definitely would be now. Nearly everyone in Ipswich I knew was born ipswich, as were there parents and grandparents.

I put down my hometown once as "Omagh, but originally from Ipswich" a few years back but one of my Ipswich friends stated "your not from Ipswich you weren't even born here" (he's lived there his whole life). Also I haven't been back there since I left (nothing to go back there for obviously), and to say a town which I lived in only 8 years of my 25 years is my hometown is a bit daft.

What happens if I spoke with irish accent? I have brother in law born and bred in preston till he was 14, moved to county down, he was 32 now and speaks with a irish 100% accent, nobody would guess he was English born :cool:(most people would think of him as irish ).

prinz · 20-04-2011 03:52PM

brummytom wrote: »

I've never heard of anyone with no connection to Ireland at all describe themselves as Irish. They should be shot.

Generally an American thing. Everyone has to be something else, they can't just be 'American'.

brummytom wrote: »

But, just out of interest, how much Irish ancestry is required for you to consider people Irish? I, for example, have 3 Irish grandparents. One was English, but considered himself Irish because both of his parents were. When he married my nan (from Dublin), he was hated by her family (all ex 'RA members!) for being English, even though he didn't identify himself to be. My parents are both English, but on the census put their heritage down as Irish. Everyone I know has at least one Irish grandparent, I used to play gaelic at primary but I'm not very sporty so I stopped. I play trad music and regularly go to sessions with 'real Irish' people. Should I stop? Am I too English to be allowed?

I put all your details into my fancy Irishtron 2000 and you passed by 2%. I think the trad music did it. Congrats, you're just Irish enough to call yourself Irish.

pragmatic1 · 20-04-2011 03:57PM

I dont see the problem. If people have Irish roots its their heritage and they're entitled to it. Some Irish people can be very arrogant by puting down people who have a real interest in the country.

PeterIanStaker · 20-04-2011 04:04PM

I'd prefer a plastic paddy over an Irish journo with a self-inflicted cultural cringe any day.

That said, I ticked the John Lennon box.

dpe · 20-04-2011 04:07PM

brummytom wrote: »

I've never heard of anyone with no connection to Ireland at all describe themselves as Irish. They should be shot.

But, just out of interest, how much Irish ancestry is required for you to consider people Irish? I, for example, have 3 Irish grandparents. One was English, but considered himself Irish because both of his parents were. When he married my nan (from Dublin), he was hated by her family (all ex 'RA members!) for being English, even though he didn't identify himself to be.

My parents are both English, but on the census put their heritage down as Irish. Everyone I know has at least one Irish grandparent, I used to play gaelic at primary but I'm not very sporty so I stopped. I play trad music and regularly go to sessions with 'real Irish' people. Should I stop? Am I too English to be allowed?

I used the Irishtron 4000 (with shamrock bugfix) and it came back "you are made entirely of green polypropolene".

Gnobe wrote: »

This is the problem most people in Ipswich wouldn't regard me as an Ipswich person. Wasn't born there, no family/relations from there, I was considered a "blow in" even then and definitely would be now. Nearly everyone in Ipswich I knew was born ipswich, as were there parents and grandparents.

I put down my hometown once as "Omagh, but originally from Ipswich" a few years back but one of my Ipswich friends stated "your not from Ipswich you weren't even born here" (he's lived there his whole life). Also I haven't been back there since I left (nothing to go back there for obviously), and to say a town which I lived in only 8 years of my 25 years is my hometown is a bit daft.

What happens if I spoke with irish accent? I have brother in law born and bred in preston till he was 14, moved to county down, he was 32 now and speaks with a irish 100% accent, nobody would guess he was English born :cool:(most people would think of him as irish ).

Ah, now you see you're confusing people from East Anglia with humans. You couldn't have chosen a more insular, suspicous bunch of people if you tried (I had a similar experience in Lincolnshire). I put it down to a racial memory of vikings turning up in longboats to shag the women every five minutes.

SharpshooterTom · 20-04-2011 04:48PM

dpe wrote: »

Ah, now you see you're confusing people from East Anglia with humans. You couldn't have chosen a more insular, suspicous bunch of people if you tried (I had a similar experience in Lincolnshire). I put it down to a racial memory of vikings turning up in longboats to shag the women every five minutes.

You see this thing dpe, its interesting to see you were denouncing people of irish descent being actually irish because when I was growing up in Ipswich, I would have been one of these types supported that Ireland over England in everything (I was encouraged too by my parents), but thing about it was that, all the English people went along with it too. No one ever pointed out to me that because I was born in England I'm strictly English etc etc, everyone knew me as that "Irish kid" and started putting on father ted accents when taking the piss out of me (teachers and parents of other kids included).

I had a friend whose father approached me and said "is that a paddy I smell in my house?!" and didn't even bother to shake my hand (he used to be a squaddie in Northern Ireland).

This is the problem I have you see, very few people called me English in England, and I spent my whole time in England being seen as another nationality, so it's very hard to have much affinity with that place when most people saw me as some sort of a foreigner, this is why these debates are very interesting.

Oh by the way, Dara O'Briain did actually Wayne Rooney Irish once.

westendgirlie · 20-04-2011 04:54PM

I was called a mongrel once :eek:

D!ckhead Kerryman

major bill · 20-04-2011 05:06PM

Dont mind people that have genuine pride in where their family hailed from but i cant stand it when the likes of Obama and other politicians/celebs use their ancestry roots to gain popularity.

dpe · 20-04-2011 05:07PM

Gnobe wrote: »

Oh by the way, Dara O'Briain did actually Wayne Rooney Irish once.

An Offally hurler with the wind blowing between his teeth as I recall.

I know what you're saying about the attitude in England, but I'd say it was probably a function of the time you lived there, and as I say, that particular part of the world (the Taff thing I had to deal with disappeared as soon as I moved away from Lincolnshire to Manchester).

cosanostra · 20-04-2011 05:20PM

I have no problem with "plastic paddys" what really annoys me is irish people who go to america for a couple of months and come back yanks

God... · 20-04-2011 06:12PM

The thing with places like America, Canada and Australia everyone is an emigrants or descendants of emigrants. Accept Natives and Aboriginies obviously but a lot of them are mixed at this stage too. So everyone is naturally interested in there background.

I live in the states myself at the moment. People don't claim to be "Irish" as in from Ireland there saying they have Irish blood in them like a lot of others claim to have Polish or Italian or whatever.

I don't have a problem with that at all I'm sure I would be the same. If anything I feel slighty jealous I would love to have a mixture of nationalitys in my background instead of purely Irish and I'm sure I'd be just as proud of them too.

I find it rather sad when people have an issue with people being proud of there heritage when it doesn't even effect them in the slightest.

Chinasea · 20-04-2011 09:29PM

Pompous
Facetious
self-absorbed
rude
insulting
embarrassing
who do the irish think they are

Yahew · 20-04-2011 09:59PM

Chinasea wrote: »

Pompous
Facetious
self-absorbed
rude
insulting
embarrassing
who do the irish think they are

And thats just you and your family.

beer enigma · 20-04-2011 11:43PM

I dont know where I'd fall in this as I'm English but was called a Plastic Paddy last week for the first time....!

I've lived in Ireland for 14 years, married to a Cork Woman, three Irish kids and classed as an Irish citizen. I remember being in East village in Douglas in 1994 when Ireland beat England in the nations - I was in my England shirt with my brother in law in Ireland shirt & 10 mins after the final whistle my wife walks in with my 1 year old on her shoulder in full ireland gear.....happy days

But plastic paddy ?

Proud of most of my heritage (some exception) but happy where I am and even wear an Ireland shirt - except against england (although if results keep going the way they are !!! lol)

lcrcboy · 21-04-2011 12:24AM

who cares if some one who has a great, great, great grandfather who is irish and then wants to call themselves Irish, these people are worth money to are economy and we should do as much as possible to make money from the situation and sell Ireland abroad.

LizT · 21-04-2011 12:27AM

I've heard Americans describe themselves as Irish because their (great great) grandparents were Irish. But they've never been to Ireland, can only name a handful of places in Ireland and have only cliched views about Ireland. I wouldn't consider them Irish.

Il Trap · 21-04-2011 12:36AM

Pauleta wrote: »

Dont mind them but the ones from Scotland, particularly Glasgow are the height of embarrassment.

James Connolly???!!! Granted, he was from Edinburgh.

SharpshooterTom · 21-04-2011 12:36AM

lizt wrote: »

I've heard Americans describe themselves as Irish because their (great great) grandparents were Irish. But they've never been to Ireland, can only name a handful of places in Ireland and have only cliched views about Ireland. I wouldn't consider them Irish.

We're not talking about those people. We're talking about people who are entitled to at least to an irish passport.

What about someone like Shane McGowan?

LizT · 21-04-2011 12:44AM

Gnobe wrote: »

We're not talking about those people. We're talking about people who are entitled to at least to an irish passport.

What about someone like Shane McGowan?

He was born in England to Irish parents, lived in ireland for a few years and moved back to england. I would describe him as Irish or English, depending on the context.

However if he was born to Irish parents and had never set foot in Ireland, I wouldn't describe him as Irish.

cardwizzard · 21-04-2011 12:52AM

Its a hard one OP. If you feel your Irish then your Irish. Some people get defensive and say if you where born here only, but a lot of people as you say have left and I'd describe their kids as Irish if they come back home.

In your instance i feel your Irish, but an English man with no connection to Ireland, and then marries an Irish girl and lives here, would still always be English in my view. There kids would be Irish.

Jesus i'm confusing myself.

*could be any nationality, just using England as an example.

Scarinae · 21-04-2011 01:26AM

Gnobe wrote: »

I had a friend whose father approached me and said "is that a paddy I smell in my house?!" and didn't even bother to shake my hand (he used to be a squaddie in Northern Ireland).

:eek: What a bigoted twat! Especially to say it to a child, the mind boggles...

Terry · 21-04-2011 01:36AM

Yahew wrote: »

Those of you who are in Ireland, who are dating Irish girls ( or guys) and who are coming over to the UK, what would you bring your child up as.

1) English only?
2) English with some Irish interest.
3) Irish?

4) French. Just to piss off the majority of English people and rabid Irish Soccer fans.

stovelid wrote: »

Moved here at 11 from England where I was born (to Irish parents) and have lived here for 29 years. If I was forced to declare myself as anything, it would without a doubt certainly be Irish but I'm not concerned about it to the extent of caring what people think about me or craw-thumping.

I do find it a little strange when people who have lived in a country all their lives project themselves toward another country, especially when they are not even first-generation. For example, an Amercian who has lived their whole life in the States calling themselves Irish but each to their own.

Everybody point and laugh at the 40 year old. He's old.

Stovelid, you have 5 years on me. Please give me this little moment because I know how fast time goes once you hit 21.

LondonIrish90 · 21-04-2011 02:45AM

brummytom wrote: »

I've never heard of anyone with no connection to Ireland at all describe themselves as Irish. They should be shot.

But, just out of interest, how much Irish ancestry is required for you to consider people Irish? I, for example, have 3 Irish grandparents. One was English, but considered himself Irish because both of his parents were. When he married my nan (from Dublin), he was hated by her family (all ex 'RA members!) for being English, even though he didn't identify himself to be.

My parents are both English, but on the census put their heritage down as Irish. Everyone I know has at least one Irish grandparent, I used to play gaelic at primary but I'm not very sporty so I stopped. I play trad music and regularly go to sessions with 'real Irish' people. Should I stop? Am I too English to be allowed?

Its all about trying to make yourself stand out from the crowd. I have a friend who is Nigerian. Goes on about Nigeria and how much better it is than England for ever and ever. However, pictures of him crop up on facebook following a recent trip back to his parents' country, and there for everybody to see are pictures of him in a Tottenham shirt, England rugby shirt, and England football shirt. Basically strutting his stuff in his sports jerseys like any Brit abroad.

Interestingly enough, you call yourself BrummyTom here while claiming to be Irish, just about making yourself stand out (not a dig, we are human, we all do).

To say you begrudgingly call yourself English is a bit strange though, I have two Irish parents and have never once called myself Irish. Born and grew up in London, amongst English people, in this fantastic country. Its played a massive part in who I am and its one of the most under rated places going. The grass isn't always greener.

u_c_thesecond · 21-04-2011 03:05AM

ive met a few plastic paddys (or wana be paddys as i call em)

1. The "I wish i was irish" Guy ( and not from here ) who says "Im pratically irish, my dad was dating one of ye about 3 years before he met my mam"(Ah no your not irish ok-and stop calling us "One of ye" )

2. The "dwelling on the past visitor" . My dad knows a man that fought against ye before, and you shouldnt have killed him, I like you, but your ancestors were awful (Ya WE were the ones that tried to take over you country !! )

3. The angry drunk racist guy "See ye irish all we tried to do was help ye and ye killed a bunch of us, My Grandad tried to help you be better and you all butchered him"As i said before YA we were the ones who tried to take over your country:rolleyes:

EDIT- My brother was born in england when my mam was on holiday it was 42 years ago and because of this he has an english passport as well as an irish one. He came home after 4 weeks because of complications ,and he was bullied for years and called a "Brit". just sayn

Sheeps · 21-04-2011 03:24AM

John Lennon was an awful gobshite, no wonder someone shot him.

flash1080 · 21-04-2011 07:21AM

Links234 wrote: »

They're good, but not as durable as perspex paddies.

Perspex is a plastic.

Pauleta · 21-04-2011 08:09AM

Il Trap wrote: »

James Connolly???!!! Granted, he was from Edinburgh.

He was a filthy socialist

panda100 · 21-04-2011 08:41AM

Gnobe, Im totally relating to all your saying!

My parents emigrated to London in the 60's along with half the population of Ireland. I was born and grew up in Cricklewood in the 80's, and moved back to Limerick when I was 16. I still have an English accent, and people over here think I am English. I have never considered myself English as I grew up with Irish culture, and am Irish through and through. I usually describe myself as London-Irish which is a unique brand of Irishness.

Most people had their English cousins pawned of on them for summer holidays and so know 'plastic paddies' are basically Irish.

SharpshooterTom · 21-04-2011 08:46AM

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

To say you begrudgingly call yourself English is a bit strange though, I have two Irish parents and have never once called myself Irish. Born and grew up in London, amongst English people, in this fantastic country. Its played a massive part in who I am and its one of the most under rated places going. The grass isn't always greener.

Uh no not really.

I was born in England to two irish parents and never ever supported England, infact, yes, I would have openly cheered against them on many occasions when I was a child. Euro 96 I was for anyone but them, world cup 98 (actually I felt sorry for them after Argentina), euro 2000 delighted when Phil Neville brought down that romanian . Yes even with my English accent.

Now granted, when I came over to Omagh I was called everyname under the sun about being an English c*nt, prod, orange bastard, and yes it annoyed me a bit. But rather than not feel irish as much, I still didn't feel English. In a true sporting sense I've never supported them I'm not going to now. I mean I'd rather jump off a cliff than play for them personally, but that's just me.

If people don't want to call irish then that's fine, I but I'll never feel English.

Plastic Paddies, What's Your View??

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