Plastic Paddies, What's Your View??

SharpshooterTom

Is there such a thing, and if so what constitutes one? I was born in England and lived there till I was 14, then moved to Omagh where I have lived ever since.

I always read reports and threads about people getting annoyed with people Irish ancestry who mention it an awful lot. Do you have an opinion?

These conversations seem to be at the heart of irish sport a lot of the time. Some are ok with players with english accents playing, a lot think it ruins the consensus of the team.

I know Americans have worse reputation than any country for their naive/small minded outlook on Ireland in the first place. But we are nation of emigrants and many because of this recession are leaving yet again far aboard and will have children born in those countries and so the dilemma will continue again.

What's you view?? Does it annoy you??

Diabhal Beag

If they're proud to be associated with this country in whatever manner good for them. God knows we hate ourselves enough these days.

Plastic Paddy is also a term that Dave McWilliams would use so please refrain from using it.

seamus

I've heard the term, but I've never really understood what "Plastic Paddy" means.

If someone wants to call themselves Irish, what do I care?

Links234

They're good, but not as durable as perspex paddies.

fontanalis

Gnobe wrote: »

Is there such a thing, and if so what constitutes one? I was born in England and lived there till I was 14, then moved to Omagh where I have lived ever since.

I always read reports and threads about people getting annoyed with people Irish ancestry who mention it an awful lot. Do you have an opinion?

These conversations seem to be at the heart of irish sport a lot of the time. Some are ok with players with english accents playing, a lot think it ruins the consensus of the team.

I know Americans have worse reputation than any country for their naive/small minded outlook on Ireland in the first place. But we are nation of emigrants and many because of this recession are leaving yet again far aboard and will have children born in those countries and so the dilemma will continue again.

What's you view?? Does it annoy you??

Well irish people have no problem clinging to someones scant irish ancestry to claim them as irish; I remember someone on a radio show trying to claim John Wayne as Irish. Embarassing stuff.
Another thing is people with irish ancestry tend to have the need to claim irishness through their original irish ancestors as when irish went abroad they tend to hang around with other irish people and wear it on their sleeves.
It's the kitsch irish nonsense that does my head in; the stereotypical leprachauns, terms like st patttys day, black irish etc some of which irish people also have no problem latching on to.

fontanalis

Links234 wrote: »

They're good, but not as durable as perspex paddies.

Or latex paddies.

thebigbiffo

sure most of europe is a little bit irish now.

as in they f'ucking own us.

Oh_Noes

I think it's usually fine when it's only one generation (two Irish parents) to identify yourself as Irish. When it is Americans who have a very vague connection to Ireland yet identify themselves as "Irish" kind of annoys me. The main reason for that is that if I moved to America or somewhere where there are a lot of these people, I wouldn't want the general public having preconceptions about my culture/identity based on someone with very little connection to Ireland.

Yahew

Those of you who are in Ireland, who are dating Irish girls ( or guys) and who are coming over to the UK, what would you bring your child up as.

1) English only?
2) English with some Irish interest.
3) Irish?

Pauleta

Dont mind them but the ones from Scotland, particularly Glasgow are the height of embarrassment.

kfallon

If you want to sail on the good ship 'Ireland' then welcome aboard!!!

Except Jermaine Pennant!

kfallon

Pauleta wrote: »

Dont mind them but the ones from Scotland, particularly Glasgow are the height of embarrassment.

Even Ray Houghton despite all he did for us?

Links234

fontanalis wrote: »

Or latex paddies.

Get teflon paddies, they're non stick.

dpe

Yahew wrote: »

Those of you who are in Ireland, who are dating Irish girls ( or guys) and who are coming over to the UK, what would you bring your child up as.

1) English only?
2) English with some Irish interest.
3) Irish?

I'm in the opposite situation; I'm English, living in Ireland with an Irish partner. My daughter was born here. She's Irish. Obviously I'll expect her to be more open minded about the UK than certain people, but bottom line is she's Irish.

I note Dara O'Briain has a section in his act called "I will love my English child..." saying exactly the same thing. All this "I'm Irish because my great-great-granddad used to live in a hole in the ground in a field outside Cork" is a load of old bollocks.

Don't like it in general.. American. Sometimes it's great though, I've met people from South America with Irish blood who just state it as a matter of fact and are proud of it. Usually an interesting story.

gurramok

Pauleta wrote: »

Dont mind them but the ones from Scotland, particularly Glasgow are the height of embarrassment.

Somebody has a problem with the entire population of Scots that are of Irish descent, way to go for generalisations!

SharpshooterTom

dpe wrote: »

All this "I'm Irish because my great-great-granddad used to live in a hole in the ground in a field outside Cork" is a load of old bollocks.

But we're not talking about those types. We're talking about people who have significant amount of irish ancestry.

I was born in England to two irish parents, and lived there until I was 14 when my parents decided to move back to (Northern) Ireland. This gets a bit more difficult for somebody like me.

RichieC

They can do as they please as long as they don't wear emerald green trousers in my house.

stovelid

Moved here at 11 from England where I was born (to Irish parents) and have lived here for 29 years. If I was forced to declare myself as anything, it would without a doubt certainly be Irish but I'm not concerned about it to the extent of caring what people think about me or craw-thumping.

I do find it a little strange when people who have lived in a country all their lives project themselves toward another country, especially when they are not even first-generation. For example, an Amercian who has lived their whole life in the States calling themselves Irish but each to their own.

prinz

No problem with people born to an Irish parent, or parents but raised abroad describing themselves as Irish. Or people with foreign parents born and raised here.

The only thing that annoys me is Americans describing themselves as Irish when they haven't a notion. I remember one bint trying to convince me she was 100% Irish, despite not being able to trace any Irish ancestry whatsoever. Apparently it was a great- great- great- grandparent or some such nonsense. Call yourself of Irish or part-Irish descent, but you're not "Irish" Irish.

Canis Lupus

Born in UK, Irish mother, English father, moved to Ireland as a toddler. I have only a handful of vague memories of the UK.

So, grew up in Ireland, some time in Dublin but the majority down in Kerry. I consider myself Irish, my outlook/cultural identity etc. It's kind of annoying though as I'll never 'technically' BE Irish and whilst I currently live in the UK I don't associate with them as a nation at all. My mates call me an Englishman who's just good at accents

chickenbutt

I know I do have some Irish heritage somewhere (I'm American) but to be honest, I have no idea who/what/where/when. It's not that I don't care but I just have no idea about it. Therefore I don't sit there and say, oh I'm Irish-American how cool am I? It's just annoying when people say they're Irish when they have no clue about the history and culture, etc.

I also find it annoying whenever I meet someone new (Irish) who ask me if I have Irish heritage. When I say yes but I don't really know/care, they always say the same thing and it's along the lines of 'oh good, you're not one of those Americans.' Like they were setting me up to make fun of me if I were to list my Irish family... Don't ask if you don't care.

SharpshooterTom

prinz wrote: »

Call yourself of Irish or part-Irish descent, but you're not "Irish" Irish.

But what is "Irish" Irish? I was born a rural village in oxfordshire which I left when I was 1 (never been back there since), moved to, London, left there when I was 6, Moved Ipswich, left there when I was 14, moved to Omagh and have lived there ever since. When people say what's your hometown its so difficult.

Aoifey!

The only one that annoys me is if they have a great great grandfather who was Irish so they claim to be Irish. If their parents are Irish fair enough, or if they grew up in Ireland, or lived here for a significant amount of their life.

brummytom

prinz wrote: »

No problem with people born to an Irish parent, or parents but raised abroad describing themselves as Irish. Or people with foreign parents born and raised here.

The only thing that annoys me is Americans describing themselves as Irish when they haven't a notion. I remember one bint trying to convince me she was 100% Irish, despite not being able to trace any Irish ancestry whatsoever. Apparently it was a great- great- great- grandparent or some such nonsense. Call yourself of Irish or part-Irish descent, but you're not "Irish" Irish.

I've been accused of being a plastic paddy. I'm wearing the Ireland football top at the moment actually!


I don't think I am one though. Like you said, I'd only ever say 'I've from Irish descent' or something like that. Although I feel a strong affinity to Ireland, and some 'Irish culture' plays a big part in my life, I would never describe myself as Irish. It just sounds pathetic.

I'm still proud of where I came from, of what my family lived through, and I'd probably consider myself more Irish than English, but I'd only ever describe myself (begrudgingly) as the latter. I know my place :pac:

Vertakill

Gnobe wrote: »

But what is "Irish" Irish? I was born a rural village in oxfordshire which I left when I was 1 (never been back there since), moved to, London, left there when I was 6, Moved Ipswich, left there when I was 14, moved to Omagh and have lived there ever since. When people say what's your hometown its so difficult.

I listed "Only people born and/or bred in Ireland are irish" as my answer but, in your case (which isn't really covered in the poll), I think you're entitled to call yourself English or Irish.

I just don't like the way some people say they're Irish based on their grandparents or even further down their family tree, despite the fact they, themselves, have not set foot in Ireland or have only been here on holiday.

If you were born else where and if you've lived a large portion of your life here and actually want to call yourself Irish, I think that's great and I'm all for it.

dvpower

Yahew wrote: »

Those of you who are in Ireland, who are dating Irish girls ( or guys) and who are coming over to the UK, what would you bring your child up as.

1) English only?
2) English with some Irish interest.
3) Irish?

4) Welsh?
5) Scottish?

Canis Lupus

Gnobe wrote: »

But what is "Irish" Irish? I was born a rural village in oxfordshire which I left when I was 1 (never been back there since), moved to, London, left there when I was 6, Moved Ipswich, left there when I was 14, moved to Omagh and have lived there ever since. When people say what's your hometown its so difficult.

That's a tough one alright, I'd probably argue your hometown is Ipswich or that you're at least English as you spent your formative years there. It's a very grey topic though.

dvpower

prinz wrote: »

The only thing that annoys me is Americans describing themselves as Irish when they haven't a notion. I remember one bint trying to convince me she was 100% Irish, despite not being able to trace any Irish ancestry whatsoever. Apparently it was a great- great- great- grandparent or some such nonsense. Call yourself of Irish or part-Irish descent, but you're not "Irish" Irish.

Take that, Obama!

prinz

Gnobe wrote: »

But what is "Irish" Irish? I was born a rural village in oxfordshire which I left when I was 1 (never been back there since), moved to, London, left there when I was 6, Moved Ipswich, left there when I was 14, moved to Omagh and have lived there ever since. When people say what's your hometown its so difficult.

Do you have to have a hometown? You qualify as "Irish" Irish. :pac: I don't mind anyone with a serious connection to the country describing themselves as Irish (actual Irish ancestors/lived a long period of their lives here etc) if that's what they identify with.

People with no tanglible connection to the country whatsoever calling themselves Irish is another matter.

prinz

dvpower wrote: »

Take that, Obama!

There's only one thing worse than someone claiming Irish ancestry, that's an Irish person trying to force it onto them, no matter how far back in the family tree you have to go.

brummytom

prinz wrote: »

Do you have to have a hometown? You qualify as "Irish" Irish. :pac: I don't mind anyone with a serious connection to the country describing themselves as Irish (actual Irish ancestors/lived a long period of their lives here etc) if that's what they identify with.

People with no tanglible connection to the country whatsoever calling themselves Irish is another matter.

I've never heard of anyone with no connection to Ireland at all describe themselves as Irish. They should be shot.


But, just out of interest, how much Irish ancestry is required for you to consider people Irish? I, for example, have 3 Irish grandparents. One was English, but considered himself Irish because both of his parents were. When he married my nan (from Dublin), he was hated by her family (all ex 'RA members!) for being English, even though he didn't identify himself to be.

My parents are both English, but on the census put their heritage down as Irish. Everyone I know has at least one Irish grandparent, I used to play gaelic at primary but I'm not very sporty so I stopped. I play trad music and regularly go to sessions with 'real Irish' people. Should I stop? Am I too English to be allowed?

SharpshooterTom

Canis Lupus wrote: »

That's a tough one alright, I'd probably argue your hometown is Ipswich or that you're at least English as you spent your formative years there. It's a very grey topic though.

This is the problem most people in Ipswich wouldn't regard me as an Ipswich person. Wasn't born there, no family/relations from there, I was considered a "blow in" even then and definitely would be now. Nearly everyone in Ipswich I knew was born ipswich, as were there parents and grandparents.

I put down my hometown once as "Omagh, but originally from Ipswich" a few years back but one of my Ipswich friends stated "your not from Ipswich you weren't even born here" (he's lived there his whole life). Also I haven't been back there since I left (nothing to go back there for obviously), and to say a town which I lived in only 8 years of my 25 years is my hometown is a bit daft.

What happens if I spoke with irish accent? I have brother in law born and bred in preston till he was 14, moved to county down, he was 32 now and speaks with a irish 100% accent, nobody would guess he was English born :cool:(most people would think of him as irish ).

prinz

brummytom wrote: »

I've never heard of anyone with no connection to Ireland at all describe themselves as Irish. They should be shot.

Generally an American thing. Everyone has to be something else, they can't just be 'American'.

brummytom wrote: »

But, just out of interest, how much Irish ancestry is required for you to consider people Irish? I, for example, have 3 Irish grandparents. One was English, but considered himself Irish because both of his parents were. When he married my nan (from Dublin), he was hated by her family (all ex 'RA members!) for being English, even though he didn't identify himself to be. My parents are both English, but on the census put their heritage down as Irish. Everyone I know has at least one Irish grandparent, I used to play gaelic at primary but I'm not very sporty so I stopped. I play trad music and regularly go to sessions with 'real Irish' people. Should I stop? Am I too English to be allowed?

I put all your details into my fancy Irishtron 2000 and you passed by 2%. I think the trad music did it. Congrats, you're just Irish enough to call yourself Irish.

pragmatic1

I dont see the problem. If people have Irish roots its their heritage and they're entitled to it. Some Irish people can be very arrogant by puting down people who have a real interest in the country.

PeterIanStaker

I'd prefer a plastic paddy over an Irish journo with a self-inflicted cultural cringe any day.

That said, I ticked the John Lennon box.

dpe

brummytom wrote: »

I've never heard of anyone with no connection to Ireland at all describe themselves as Irish. They should be shot.


But, just out of interest, how much Irish ancestry is required for you to consider people Irish? I, for example, have 3 Irish grandparents. One was English, but considered himself Irish because both of his parents were. When he married my nan (from Dublin), he was hated by her family (all ex 'RA members!) for being English, even though he didn't identify himself to be.

My parents are both English, but on the census put their heritage down as Irish. Everyone I know has at least one Irish grandparent, I used to play gaelic at primary but I'm not very sporty so I stopped. I play trad music and regularly go to sessions with 'real Irish' people. Should I stop? Am I too English to be allowed?

I used the Irishtron 4000 (with shamrock bugfix) and it came back "you are made entirely of green polypropolene".

Gnobe wrote: »

This is the problem most people in Ipswich wouldn't regard me as an Ipswich person. Wasn't born there, no family/relations from there, I was considered a "blow in" even then and definitely would be now. Nearly everyone in Ipswich I knew was born ipswich, as were there parents and grandparents.

I put down my hometown once as "Omagh, but originally from Ipswich" a few years back but one of my Ipswich friends stated "your not from Ipswich you weren't even born here" (he's lived there his whole life). Also I haven't been back there since I left (nothing to go back there for obviously), and to say a town which I lived in only 8 years of my 25 years is my hometown is a bit daft.

What happens if I spoke with irish accent? I have brother in law born and bred in preston till he was 14, moved to county down, he was 32 now and speaks with a irish 100% accent, nobody would guess he was English born :cool:(most people would think of him as irish ).

Ah, now you see you're confusing people from East Anglia with humans. You couldn't have chosen a more insular, suspicous bunch of people if you tried (I had a similar experience in Lincolnshire). I put it down to a racial memory of vikings turning up in longboats to shag the women every five minutes.

SharpshooterTom

dpe wrote: »

Ah, now you see you're confusing people from East Anglia with humans. You couldn't have chosen a more insular, suspicous bunch of people if you tried (I had a similar experience in Lincolnshire). I put it down to a racial memory of vikings turning up in longboats to shag the women every five minutes.

You see this thing dpe, its interesting to see you were denouncing people of irish descent being actually irish because when I was growing up in Ipswich, I would have been one of these types supported that Ireland over England in everything (I was encouraged too by my parents), but thing about it was that, all the English people went along with it too. No one ever pointed out to me that because I was born in England I'm strictly English etc etc, everyone knew me as that "Irish kid" and started putting on father ted accents when taking the piss out of me (teachers and parents of other kids included).

I had a friend whose father approached me and said "is that a paddy I smell in my house?!" and didn't even bother to shake my hand (he used to be a squaddie in Northern Ireland).

This is the problem I have you see, very few people called me English in England, and I spent my whole time in England being seen as another nationality, so it's very hard to have much affinity with that place when most people saw me as some sort of a foreigner, this is why these debates are very interesting.

Oh by the way, Dara O'Briain did actually Wayne Rooney Irish once.

westendgirlie

I was called a mongrel once :eek:

D!ckhead Kerryman

major bill

Dont mind people that have genuine pride in where their family hailed from but i cant stand it when the likes of Obama and other politicians/celebs use their ancestry roots to gain popularity.

dpe

Gnobe wrote: »

Oh by the way, Dara O'Briain did actually Wayne Rooney Irish once.

An Offally hurler with the wind blowing between his teeth as I recall.

I know what you're saying about the attitude in England, but I'd say it was probably a function of the time you lived there, and as I say, that particular part of the world (the Taff thing I had to deal with disappeared as soon as I moved away from Lincolnshire to Manchester).

cosanostra

I have no problem with "plastic paddys" what really annoys me is irish people who go to america for a couple of months and come back yanks

God...

The thing with places like America, Canada and Australia everyone is an emigrants or descendants of emigrants. Accept Natives and Aboriginies obviously but a lot of them are mixed at this stage too. So everyone is naturally interested in there background.

I live in the states myself at the moment. People don't claim to be "Irish" as in from Ireland there saying they have Irish blood in them like a lot of others claim to have Polish or Italian or whatever.

I don't have a problem with that at all I'm sure I would be the same. If anything I feel slighty jealous I would love to have a mixture of nationalitys in my background instead of purely Irish and I'm sure I'd be just as proud of them too.

I find it rather sad when people have an issue with people being proud of there heritage when it doesn't even effect them in the slightest.

Chinasea

Pompous
Facetious
self-absorbed
rude
insulting
embarrassing
who do the irish think they are

Yahew

Chinasea wrote: »

Pompous
Facetious
self-absorbed
rude
insulting
embarrassing
who do the irish think they are

And thats just you and your family.

beer enigma

I dont know where I'd fall in this as I'm English but was called a Plastic Paddy last week for the first time....!

I've lived in Ireland for 14 years, married to a Cork Woman, three Irish kids and classed as an Irish citizen. I remember being in East village in Douglas in 1994 when Ireland beat England in the nations - I was in my England shirt with my brother in law in Ireland shirt & 10 mins after the final whistle my wife walks in with my 1 year old on her shoulder in full ireland gear.....happy days

But plastic paddy ?

Proud of most of my heritage (some exception) but happy where I am and even wear an Ireland shirt - except against england (although if results keep going the way they are !!! lol)

lcrcboy

who cares if some one who has a great, great, great grandfather who is irish and then wants to call themselves Irish, these people are worth money to are economy and we should do as much as possible to make money from the situation and sell Ireland abroad.

LizT

I've heard Americans describe themselves as Irish because their (great great) grandparents were Irish. But they've never been to Ireland, can only name a handful of places in Ireland and have only cliched views about Ireland. I wouldn't consider them Irish.

Il Trap

Pauleta wrote: »

Dont mind them but the ones from Scotland, particularly Glasgow are the height of embarrassment.

James Connolly???!!! Granted, he was from Edinburgh.

SharpshooterTom

lizt wrote: »

I've heard Americans describe themselves as Irish because their (great great) grandparents were Irish. But they've never been to Ireland, can only name a handful of places in Ireland and have only cliched views about Ireland. I wouldn't consider them Irish.

We're not talking about those people. We're talking about people who are entitled to at least to an irish passport.

What about someone like Shane McGowan?

LizT

Gnobe wrote: »

We're not talking about those people. We're talking about people who are entitled to at least to an irish passport.

What about someone like Shane McGowan?

He was born in England to Irish parents, lived in ireland for a few years and moved back to england. I would describe him as Irish or English, depending on the context.

However if he was born to Irish parents and had never set foot in Ireland, I wouldn't describe him as Irish.