Your thoughts on fortune tellers: do you go to them and why?

SparkyTech · 18-04-2011 10:57AM

I think its unethical and wrong. If you have problems or grief work through them with a trained counciller. Don't place your trust and false hope in someone charging you for pure profit.

candy-gal1 · 18-04-2011 10:58AM

I went to one back when i was 17, not really believing anything like that and still not really, and looking back there were names, places and things ive done the past few years since that which were mentioned by her.
maybe coincidence, maybe not, who knows! All i know what she said was true for me.

Raze_them_all · 18-04-2011 06:04PM

I don't go to them never will, If I'm going to throw away money I'll go on the beer and play some poker, least I'll have a bit of fun then rather than being told a story

lrushe · 18-04-2011 06:10PM

HugoDrax wrote: »

Any of the things she said she could guess because nearly any of those things could be said about any body.

Really???
He could have guessed at 21 I'd be given a house, that's a pretty big jump, even I couldn't have predicted that. How many people would that situation apply to?
He 'guessed' my current partners first inital, the fact that he would have fair hair but made of point of saying it wouldn't be blond (it's red) and the exact age I'd be when we'd meet, 5 years before it happened.
If he'd come out with crap like 'Mary says hello' I'd have saw through him in an instant, but his information was so exact. He was even able to tell me my mother didn't like the colour of her headstone, I was young when she died (2 years old) so I asked my Dad about it and he said that there had been a fight between her family and him over the headstone but her family ultimately won and got her a grey headstone even though she'd told my Dad she wanted a black one, how does someone make that up, even I didn't know that

Just for the record this fortune teller didn't charge anything I got to see him through a friend of a friend, so what had he to gain? He wrote everything he said down and I still have it somewhere, in foresight it's scary to see just how accurate he was. Would love another reading from him if I knew where he was now

18-04-2011 06:12PM

lrushe wrote: »

Really???
He could have guessed at 21 I'd be given a house, that's a pretty big jump, even I couldn't have predicted that. How many people would that situation apply to?
He 'guessed' my current partners first inital, the fact that he would have fair hair but made of point of saying it wouldn't be blond (it's red) and the exact age I'd be when we'd meet, 5 years before it happened.
If he'd come out with crap like 'Mary says hello' I'd have saw through him in an instant, but his information was so exact. He was even able to tell me my mother didn't like the colour of her headstone, I was young when she died (2 years old) so I asked my Dad about it and he said that there had been a fight between her family and him over the headstone but her family ultimately won and got her a grey headstone even though she'd told my Dad she wanted a black one, how does someone make that up, even I didn't know that
Just for the record this fortune teller didn't charge anything I got to see him through a friend of a friend, so what had he to gain? He wrote everything he said down and I still have it somewhere, in foresight it's scary to see just how accurate he was. Would love another reading from him if I knew where he was now

The fortune teller was a friend of a friend and knew about a family dispute?
And red hair in ireland?

lrushe · 18-04-2011 06:14PM

Giselle wrote: »

Do you accurately remember all the things you were told that didn't wind up having some tentative link with reality?.

I don't need to remember, he wrote it all down and it was all scarily accurate.

lrushe · 18-04-2011 06:18PM

bluewolf wrote: »

The fortune teller was a friend of a friend and knew about a family dispute?
And red hair in ireland?

No I got to see the fortune teller through a friend of a friend. My mother died 28 years ago in a different county.
The thing about the red hair is that I didn't even know my boyfriend had red hair until I was going out with him for a month, he shaves his head

18-04-2011 06:26PM

lrushe wrote: »

No I got to see the fortune teller through a friend of a friend. My mother died 28 years ago in a different county.
The thing about the red hair is that I didn't even know my boyfriend had red hair until I was going out with him for a month, he shaves his head

Right, but he still had red hair in ireland regardless of whether you knew it or not...
I'm not really convinced here

desertcircus · 18-04-2011 06:29PM

The problem with being open-minded is that if you're too open-minded your brain will dribble out.

It drives me insane that people adopt an attitude of "well, what harm can be done" when talking about frauds and delusionals who take money from frequently emotionally damaged people, "see" a bunch of stuff that always happens to be entirely decipherable by anyone good at cold reading, make up some bull**** about the future, give these people advice on what to do and then send them out the door.

People make big decisions on foot of what they're told by these frauds and delusionals. They're not regulated, they're not tested for basic competence; they're allowed to charge whatever the hell they want to manipulate people who are often in a state of intense grief or worry and advise whatever random nonsense they feel like.

When Derren Brown does it, it's harmless fun, because he makes it clear that he's doing it through cold reading and never pretends to have any idea of an afterlife. When spiritualists do it, it's someone taking money to pretend to be someone's dead relative.

Next time you go to a reader, stick on a black mask, don't talk, and keep completely still. See how far they get.

LegacyUser · 18-04-2011 07:35PM

SparkyTech wrote: »

I think its unethical and wrong. If you have problems or grief work through them with a trained counciller. Don't place your trust and false hope in someone charging you for pure profit.

Woah there for a second - do you think counsellors do it for hugs? Or that they donate everything that comes in to some charity? A counsellor runs a business in the same way as a hairdresser does, even if their business is to help people to deal with their issues. I'm not running down counsellors, but there are good, bad and ugly ones of them too. All professions have a mixed-bag in them.

In 2002 - 2003 I went to a counsellor for about 6 months. I've never felt worse in my life than I did when I was seeing him - not before I went to see him, but while I was seeing him. He charged me €90 a session to make me feel like I was a horrible person, and the night I went to tell him I wasn't coming back he used my own mother as a pawn to try to bully me into continuing to avail of his services. I've only been to a fortune teller once, but I left her feeling on top of the world. She didn't promise me anything outlandish, she didn't tell me I was going to win the lotto the next weekend or find the man of my dreams around the next corner, the things she said may or may not happen over the next decade (some things have already happened, and I'm happy with the outcome), but I felt optimistic and happy leaving. It might have been a temporary fix, but I needed a lift - better than going out getting sh!tfaced, which would have cost me a darn sight more, and left me feeling a lot worse.

I wouldn't consider myself "damaged" or gullible. I was as sceptical as many of the posters on this thread for years - although perhaps not vocal about it. I know a lot of what I was told could easily have just been vague presumptions about the way things might have been, or might be into the future in approximate terms, given my age, appearance and attitude on the day. I went in there for a bit of fun and all I can say about her reading was fair play to her - I'd love to be able to do that myself for the laugh. There were signs on the wall and counter as I went in, and in the room the reading was held in too, stating that the readings etc. were for entertainment purposes and not to be taken too seriously.

People with problems have to acknowledge them and deal with them through the right channels - just because they happen to choose the wrong channels doesn't mean those channels are wrong for everyone.

lrushe · 18-04-2011 07:38PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm not really convinced here

That's kinda how it is with subjects like this though. Non believers will poke holes in it no matter what is said because lets face it it's going to be pretty hard to prove and believers will believe everything no matter what is said because they have blind faith in it. It's hard to find a middle ground.
I'm not so far in that I can't see a faker when it's in front of me but what I experienced was bang on the money and I can't dispute that.

Raze_them_all · 18-04-2011 07:49PM

lrushe wrote: »

That's kinda how it is with subjects like this though. Non believers will poke holes in it no matter what is said because lets face it it's going to be pretty hard to prove and believers will believe everything no matter what is said because they have blind faith in it. It's hard to find a middle ground.
I'm not so far in that I can't see a faker when it's in front of me but what I experienced was bang on the money and I can't dispute that.

Houdini proved it pretty well. Him and his wife agreed on a phrase before his death, not one so called medium could repeat it in all their attempts

lrushe · 18-04-2011 07:51PM

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Houdini proved it pretty well. Him and his wife agreed on a phrase before his death, not one so called medium could repeat it in all their attempts

Doesn't mean they don't exist, just that Houdini's wife hasn't found one yet

Raze_them_all · 18-04-2011 08:03PM

she spent years trying you can't say that she somehow only went to shams and never a real one...actually you can as they're all shams

Dudess · 18-04-2011 08:10PM

Heavens2Betsy wrote: »

Woah there for a second - do you think counsellors do it for hugs? Or that they donate everything that comes in to some charity?

No, but a lot of them chose the field because they are genuinely passionate about helping people. In my opinion, it's a calling - like nursing or teaching. Anyone who's solely in it for the money won't be long getting miserable or getting the hell out - the road to being qualified and finding employment/setting up your own practice alone is arduous and long enough as it is.

lrushe · 18-04-2011 08:12PM

Raze_them_all wrote: »

she spent years trying you can't say that she somehow only went to shams and never a real one...actually you can as they're all shams

In my (small) experience the shams are usually the ones who shout the loudest, the ones with a true gift don't advertise it. Like the guy who I went to, if I tried I'd probably never find him again.

Dudess · 18-04-2011 08:18PM

Years ago I did go to a girl who was my age (only 20s), friends of friends, that kinda way - seemed genuine. I don't know what she was capitalising on - a few lucky guesses which caused her to feel she had a sixth sense perhaps? While she was spot-on about a lot of present stuff, most of what she predicted didn't happen. :pac:
But to be fair, I don't think she was a ruthless scam merchant or anything.

The whole sixth sense, paranormal thing, another dimension etc - I wouldn't fully rule it out as I can't fully know what's out there. I'm mostly skeptical though.

desertcircus · 18-04-2011 08:30PM

lrushe wrote: »

That's kinda how it is with subjects like this though. Non believers will poke holes in it no matter what is said because lets face it it's going to be pretty hard to prove and believers will believe everything no matter what is said because they have blind faith in it. It's hard to find a middle ground.
I'm not so far in that I can't see a faker when it's in front of me but what I experienced was bang on the money and I can't dispute that.

But you can. Testing indicates that people remember fortune-tellings as being far more specific than they actually were. People who specify loudly and clearly that they're doing nothing supernatural are able to match any supposed psychic or clairvoyant. Every attempt to test whether people have psychic ability - by blocking out the non-psychic sources of information - has resulted in ignominious failure for the advocates of psychic powers.

You're talking about a field in which people have difficulty coming to terms with the fact that Derren Brown fakes it despite the fact that he says so, and even includes basic explanations for the tricks he does. If you think someone might conceivably have psychic powers, you can't spot a faker.

A ring of pale skin on a ring finger? Relationship fell apart recently. A woman in her fifties? She's probably had a parent die, or at least an aunt or uncle. Well-cut suit looking a bit worn? Recent money problems. You give off dozens of tells in everything you wear and do, and the skilled hucksters are just good at spotting and using them.

amacachi · 18-04-2011 08:38PM

desertcircus wrote: »

But you can. Testing indicates that people remember fortune-tellings as being far more specific than they actually were. People who specify loudly and clearly that they're doing nothing supernatural are able to match any supposed psychic or clairvoyant. Every attempt to test whether people have psychic ability - by blocking out the non-psychic sources of information - has resulted in ignominious failure for the advocates of psychic powers.

There was a clip on Youtube I can't find now of James Randi where someone had gotten a reading and was delighted with it and said it was accurate. Randi then read out a list of about 30 names that were mentioned in the reading and only 11 were hits but the guy who got the reading still defended the fraudster. It was pretty funny :P

Faith · 18-04-2011 08:56PM

I went to one a few years ago as a gift from a friend. My friend swore she was the real deal and that she'd had loads of accurate readings herself. Off I went with an open mind... And it was shíte. Absolute shíte. She kept talking about dead people I had no knowledge of - "John says he's proud of you" kind of rubbish. Then she kept talking about babies. I remember her saying "Don't worry, the baby will be fine". I hate kids, and she made me freak out until I got my period a few weeks later. The one thing she said was that I'd meet an older man who would take me out to dinner and that night tell me he loved me. The night before the reading, my boyfriend who was 5 years older than me, had taken me for dinner and had told me he loved me for the first time.

On the whole, while I'd like to believe in them, I can't. Sure, right now I feel like grabbing one and shouting "Will I ever love again?!?!", but I honestly don't believe that they're genuine.

krudler · 18-04-2011 09:12PM

Heavens2Betsy wrote: »

Woah there for a second - do you think counsellors do it for hugs? Or that they donate everything that comes in to some charity? A counsellor runs a business in the same way as a hairdresser does, even if their business is to help people to deal with their issues. I'm not running down counsellors, but there are good, bad and ugly ones of them too. All professions have a mixed-bag in them.

In 2002 - 2003 I went to a counsellor for about 6 months. I've never felt worse in my life than I did when I was seeing him - not before I went to see him, but while I was seeing him. He charged me €90 a session to make me feel like I was a horrible person, and the night I went to tell him I wasn't coming back he used my own mother as a pawn to try to bully me into continuing to avail of his services. I've only been to a fortune teller once, but I left her feeling on top of the world. She didn't promise me anything outlandish, she didn't tell me I was going to win the lotto the next weekend or find the man of my dreams around the next corner, the things she said may or may not happen over the next decade (some things have already happened, and I'm happy with the outcome), but I felt optimistic and happy leaving. It might have been a temporary fix, but I needed a lift - better than going out getting sh!tfaced, which would have cost me a darn sight more, and left me feeling a lot worse.

I wouldn't consider myself "damaged" or gullible. I was as sceptical as many of the posters on this thread for years - although perhaps not vocal about it. I know a lot of what I was told could easily have just been vague presumptions about the way things might have been, or might be into the future in approximate terms, given my age, appearance and attitude on the day. I went in there for a bit of fun and all I can say about her reading was fair play to her - I'd love to be able to do that myself for the laugh. There were signs on the wall and counter as I went in, and in the room the reading was held in too, stating that the readings etc. were for entertainment purposes and not to be taken too seriously.

People with problems have to acknowledge them and deal with them through the right channels - just because they happen to choose the wrong channels doesn't mean those channels are wrong for everyone.

you're comparing counsellers to fortune tellers? fail.

lrushe · 18-04-2011 09:24PM

desertcircus wrote: »

But you can. Testing indicates that people remember fortune-tellings as being far more specific than they actually were. People who specify loudly and clearly that they're doing nothing supernatural are able to match any supposed psychic or clairvoyant. Every attempt to test whether people have psychic ability - by blocking out the non-psychic sources of information - has resulted in ignominious failure for the advocates of psychic powers.

You're talking about a field in which people have difficulty coming to terms with the fact that Derren Brown fakes it despite the fact that he says so, and even includes basic explanations for the tricks he does. If you think someone might conceivably have psychic powers, you can't spot a faker.

A ring of pale skin on a ring finger? Relationship fell apart recently. A woman in her fifties? She's probably had a parent die, or at least an aunt or uncle. Well-cut suit looking a bit worn? Recent money problems. You give off dozens of tells in everything you wear and do, and the skilled hucksters are just good at spotting and using them.

Ok, I'm up for being proven wrong. Have a look at the things I posted I was told during my reading and tell me the siganls I gave off that might result in the answers I got.
Also, I am not relying on memory from my reading, I had it written down.

Dudess · 18-04-2011 09:41PM

Faith wrote: »

The one thing she said was that I'd meet an older man who would take me out to dinner and that night tell me he loved me. The night before the reading, my boyfriend who was 5 years older than me, had taken me for dinner and had told me he loved me for the first time.

That is kinda freaky though...

Ickle Magoo · 18-04-2011 09:42PM

When one of them picks up the million dollars from James Randi then I'll go visit them, until then, I'm sceptical. Frankly, the more psychics try and fail the more suspicious I get. Now that more people like Derren Brown are not just saying but showing how it is done, the likelihood for genuine supernaturality is firmly weighted against them.

Jame Randi

Wibbs · 18-04-2011 09:44PM

krudler wrote: »

you're comparing counsellers to fortune tellers? fail.

No I think she's pointing out that in her opinion as far as results go sometimes a crappy counselor is worse than a good "psychic" and TBH I would tend to agree. Just because they've a brass plaque on the door doesn't mean they're any good. Number one, in Ireland any fcukwit can call him or herself a "counselor" or a life coach or any other such guff. Among the actually trained and registered ones screwups can get through even with the best of intentions. Among the unregulated? You're nearly as safe with some gypsy rose lee. Still if it was me, I'd change shrinks rather than go the tarot card route, so I see where you're coming from K.

Faith wrote: »

"Will I ever love again?!?!"

... the fog is clearing... the spirits are speaking from the dark.... and uncle Podge says Yes. You can cross my palm with silver now. Actually a 50 will do.

beks101 · 18-04-2011 09:47PM

Heavens2Betsy wrote: »

Woah there for a second - do you think counsellors do it for hugs? Or that they donate everything that comes in to some charity? A counsellor runs a business in the same way as a hairdresser does, even if their business is to help people to deal with their issues. I'm not running down counsellors, but there are good, bad and ugly ones of them too. All professions have a mixed-bag in them.

There are good counsellors and there are bad counsellors, as with any profession. But any counsellor, psychotherapist or psychologist you visit will have earned a qualification to practice and will have engaged in sufficient training in helping emotionally/mentally vulnerable people that are deemed eligible to practice without being a danger to people's mental health.

Can you really say the same about 'psychics'? It's one thing going 'for a laugh', but personally I know of a few cases where already fragile people walked away from one of these 'readings' in a worse state of mind and with an urgent need to return to 'find out more' about their dead relative or their own future, to the point where it has become a very expensive crutch. A crutch based on a series of elaborate lies.

As others have said, there are catch-all scenarios that these guys can use that will have resonance with a vast majority of people. If you're young-sounding and call one of the 'psychic lines', you'll possibly hear 'I see a lot of travel in your future', well no sh1t sherlock, anyone know of a young Irish person who doesn't have a passport?

The better the scam-artist, the 'better' the predictions...they'll have more experience reading body language and matching generalized scenarios with different groups of people. They'll be more responsive and pick up on subtle cues immediately. They'll get you emotionally involved quicker by throwing our clever generalisations with such confidence that they seem completely personal to their customers. In a way it is a skill and almost one I'd admire if it wasn't used in such a dishonest and predatory way.

Raze_them_all · 18-04-2011 09:51PM

Wibbs wrote: »

... the fog is clearing... the spirits are speaking from the dark.... and uncle Podge says Yes. You can cross my palm with silver now. Actually a 50 will do.

I sense that your hard times are coming to an end and you will be coming into money in the near future

Wibbs · 18-04-2011 09:53PM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

When one of them picks up the million dollars from James Randi then I'll go visit them, until then, I'm sceptical. Frankly, the more psychics try and fail the more suspicious I get. Now that more people like Derren Brown are not just saying but showing how it is done, the likelihood for genuine supernaturality is firmly weighted against them.

Jame Randi

True but IMHO Randi is pretty damn vague about that million quid prize. It's pretty much designed that unless my name is Obi Wan Kenobi and I levitate in front of him then no way can one win. It has a very black and white approach to stuff on the edge of what could one day be science. Quite narrow minded. Personally I'd suspect future events can be influenced and/or predicted. That causality doesn't break down, but is a lot more flexible at the micro level than we think. It doesn't mean I think dead aunty flo is channeling cleopatra to me of a friday evening, but as Einstein said* "the universe is a bit mad Ted"

*Al may have not said this, but I think he would have. Indeed if his family are reading, I'm broke, so don't bother suing. You can't take trousers off a bare arse.

Wibbs · 18-04-2011 09:57PM

beks101 wrote: »

There are good counsellors and there are bad counsellors, as with any profession. But any counsellor, psychotherapist or psychologist you visit will have earned a qualification to practice and will have engaged in sufficient training in helping emotionally/mentally vulnerable people that are deemed eligible to practice without being a danger to people's mental health.

Hate to break it to you B, that's simply not true. Not in this country. I can set up in the morning and say I'm a counselor. No qualifications or training or certification required. Indeed I could name three utter effing charlatans that are currently screwing with people. If folks need one always always always check their credentials and even if they're OK there and are still crap for you, then get another one.

mystery1 · 18-04-2011 09:59PM

I am a tarot reader for the last 7 yrs or so, I worked for a well renound psychic telephone like for a few months (I can't say the name), and let me tell you I was given a contract to sign which said that I must not upset anyone on the phone. So in some cases, that meant that I could not tell someone the truth if I thought it would upset them e.g. "my boyfriend left me 2 yrs ago and is with another woman, will he come back to me?"... you don't need a fortune teller to realise that relationship is over, yet I could not be direct and tell her "no" incase I upset her... god forbid that she would do something to herself, then I would be to blame because I upset her and I was contracted not to.....

My advice, if you want to see a psychic go see one face-to-face, you will get much more out of it, and because they are working for themselves they can be honest with you.

Your thoughts on fortune tellers: do you go to them and why?

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