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What would you pay now?

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  • 18-04-2011 9:38am
    #1
    mrgaa1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭


    So you've just seen a house you'd like to buy (for either living in or for renting out) - what would you pay that you deem to be fair for a house in your area?
    Lets take the common sought after house(s) as being 3 bed semi-detached and a 4 bed semi-detached.

    Personally anything in and around the 100k mark anywhere in the country would be acceptable for a 3-bed semi - bar the larger cities like Dublin, Cork, Galway etc...
    For a 4-bed I'd say €135k as per above.
    It will be much cheaper to buy now than to build.


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    #2
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    It depends what area as location is a significant factor in a buyers choice of where to live. It's not an 'one fits all' approach to pricing, a house in a small Donegal town will be cheaper than a house in Kilcock for example.


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    #3
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,967 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    I ultimately want to buy a 3 or 4 bed semi D in Rarthfarnham (proper Rathfarnham - near the Grange Road/village). Probably in about 3 - 5 years and i would expect to pay around €350k.


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    #4
    Lyn256
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Lyn256


    I'm in the market for a 4 bed with garage/playroom in Lucan and hoping/planning to buy in the next 9-12 months.
    Like this
    http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=586791&s[bd_no]=4&s[mnp]=1&s[mxp]=375000

    Prepared to pay €250k or thereabouts considering thats what the 4 bed went in the Allsops auction last Friday
    http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=734&MP=84&ID=734000074&S=L&O=A

    (I checked out this property but didn;t meet my criteria for schools shops etc but a grand house/nice estate for whomever bought it)

    Just waiting on the right property!


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    #5
    mrgaa1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭mrgaa1


    gurramok wrote: »
    It depends what area as location is a significant factor in a buyers choice of where to live. It's not an 'one fits all' approach to pricing, a house in a small Donegal town will be cheaper than a house in Kilcock for example.
    your absolutley right - thats why I mentioned in the OP "your area" :p


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    #6
    robd
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    I'd pay 400k for a proper sized 4 bed (3d,1s) in Clontarf. Reckon it will be 2-3 years before I see availability at that price though.


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    #7
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    200k for standard 3bed 'walk in condition' in Ringsend/Irishtown, Dublin, asking about double that now. Most housing down here is small(old cottages) unlike the standard old Corpo ones I seek. Would pay 200k for a big 2bed apt, they do exist here but asking silly prices influenced by NAMA holding similar off the market.

    However, I have my eye on moving back to the northside. 150k for a 3bed house in non-scummy areas of 'Glasnevin North'/Finglas East/Navan Road Cabra/Blanch would be a fair price. They are about 250k-300k now, alot of sellers still in denial.


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    #8
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Lyn256 wrote: »
    I'm in the market for a 4 bed with garage/playroom in Lucan and hoping/planning to buy in the next 9-12 months.
    Like this
    http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=586791&s[bd_no]=4&s[mnp]=1&s[mxp]=375000

    Prepared to pay €250k or thereabouts considering thats what the 4 bed went in the Allsops auction last Friday
    http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=734&MP=84&ID=734000074&S=L&O=A

    (I checked out this property but didn;t meet my criteria for schools shops etc but a grand house/nice estate for whomever bought it)

    Just waiting on the right property!

    I don't think those properties will ever fall to that level...they were going for about 480k in the boom. Would expect them to bottom out around 300k bearing in mind those houses have decent sized rooms and gardens, which as the new builds are in much higher density developments, will be sought after.


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    #9
    Lyn256
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Lyn256


    Well athtrasna, I'll have to 'beg to differ' with you! I believe that the Westbury house is currently overpriced by about €50k-in that its should be on the market for €299 with a view to accepting about €280. I predict that it will remain on the market for the next few months and will have to be reduced before it will sell. I haven't viewed it as it has a northfacing back garden and I'm only interested in a property with a south or west facing back garden.
    This view is also shared by at least one of the estate agents in Lucan (not Smith Curley or KBA)

    This property has been on sale for almost a year in westbury

    http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-westbury-drive-lucan-dublin-west/1265089

    I went to view it in July (in fact its the reason that we sold our house) when it was €375k and even at that time KBA agreed that it was overpriced-the market in Lucan has fallen by over 20% since then

    Anyway, I have my money in the bank and am renting and when the right property comes along_i'll buy it-currently I think that the west bury properties are worth about €280k and by next year -in the region of €250k

    Saying that if the right house in Westbury comes up-I'll be looking to buy so I may end up paying more than I hope


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    #10
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    If they were going for 480k in 2006, and asking 349k now, it ain't even near a 50% drop. Expect further drops on houses like that.(34 Westbury Avenue)


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    #11
    Lyn256
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Lyn256


    Thanks Gurramok! My thoughts exactly!
    My own former estate (in Lucan) is down almost 40% from peak and has more to go so!
    So €480k less 40% €284 . . . . .


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    #12
    Lyn256
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Lyn256


    Oops brain not properly engaged . .

    €480k less 40% €288


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    #13
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    athtrasna wrote: »
    ..they were going for about 480k in the boom.

    When will it sink in to people that the boom price is about as relevant to the actual value of a property as a packet of Angel Delight? They are completely and utterly divorced from each other.

    I'd pay nothing now as I can't see myself being willing to jump at anything less than an 8% yield, preferably 10%. Which are not only a long way off in most cases (houses asking for rent of €2750pm with sale asking prices of €1.5m :eek:) but impossible to calculate long-term while the rental market is still being propped up. The crash we've seen so far is just about the tip of the iceberg, tbh. In so many ways most people are still in denial and are waiting for things to go back to "normal."

    The other reason I'd not buy now is because I'm so unsure as to whether my short to medium term future is in this country. I moved back to Ireland a year ago for mainly personal reasons but I'm very seriously contemplating moving on again soon. The denial has led to a concerted movement to drag this recession out for as long as possible, which will damage the country so much more than is already on the cards. I'm not sure how much I want to stick around for that.:(


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    #14
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    It is a hard question, but in general I would pay 100k for a three bed in a "normal" part of Dublin (e.g. Swords) and about 150k for a nicer part of Dublin, e.g. Stillorgan.

    Personally I am more interested in living outside the city so I would pay about 80k maximum for a nice cottage with at least 10 acres of decent land.


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    #15
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    iguana wrote: »
    When will it sink in to people that the boom price is about as relevant to the actual value of a property as a packet of Angel Delight? They are completely and utterly divorced from each other.

    For a starter, we should be using "bubble" instead of "boom"... :pac:


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    #16
    who_ru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭who_ru


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    For a starter, we should be using "bubble" instead of "boom"... :pac:

    my thoughts exactly, describing the last decade in this country as a "boom" is so far removed from reality it's particularly sad.

    really it should be called a "bust" as opposed to a "bubble".


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    #17
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    +1

    people gotta get this notion of 2006/2007 prices as a bench mark outta there heads!
    those prices are /where cloud cuckoo land! they will never be seen again.


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    #18
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    iguana wrote: »
    .

    I'd pay nothing now as I can't see myself being willing to jump at anything less than an 8% yield, preferably 10%. Which are not only a long way off in most cases

    What are you basing the 10% yield on? Are there any countries in the world where 10% yield is normal?


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    #19
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    OMD wrote: »
    What are you basing the 10% yield on? Are there any countries in the world where 10% yield is normal?

    Yes. Considering the fact that 6-8% is the historical norm for savings rates. I was getting 8% on my savings 3 years ago, I get 5% now. To be utterly blunt anyone investing in property, which brings a load more hassle than a savings account, for less than 10% needs their head examined.

    Hell, even property investment cheerleader extraordinaire, Sarah Beeney routinely advised not to touch a rental investment for a yield below 10% on her show.


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    #20
    oflahero
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭oflahero


    iguana wrote: »
    I was getting 8% on my savings 3 years ago, I get 5% now.

    Jaysus, even 5% on deposit sounds risky. Are you with Icesave? :D


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    #21
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    It is a hard question, but in general I would pay 100k for a three bed in a "normal" part of Dublin (e.g. Swords) and about 150k for a nicer part of Dublin, e.g. Stillorgan.

    Personally I am more interested in living outside the city so I would pay about 80k maximum for a nice cottage with at least 10 acres of decent land.


    Where? Tanzania?


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    #22
    spockety
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    1996 prices adjusted for inflation please.

    Unwind the bubble entirely.


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    #23
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Where? Tanzania?

    Wait a few years and you will see.


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    #24
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Wait a few years and you will see.

    Note this is assuming we do not see hyperinflation in Europe (due to QE to bailout Spain, etc.)


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    #25
    smelltheglove
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭smelltheglove


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    So you've just seen a house you'd like to buy (for either living in or for renting out) - what would you pay that you deem to be fair for a house in your area?
    Lets take the common sought after house(s) as being 3 bed semi-detached and a 4 bed semi-detached.
    .

    Complete honesty (if I had the money again)

    2003 - 3 bed council house in Navan, paid 135 now would not consider over 110

    2005 - 3 bed semi in D15 large garden paid 235 now would not consider over 170

    2007 - planned build of cavan home fell through would have been large 6 bed on 1.2 acre 3 rec rooms would have cost region of 250 but now would not consider it at all

    The boom should not ever happen again, it was unrealistic, I was lucky to get on the property market but now I say I was also lucky to get off when I did. If I were to buy the house I am renting now I probably would not consider over 200 for it but not sure if I would consider buying again at all. As victims of the recession, my husband was unemployed for a prolonged period (for the first time in his life) and the struggles that went with that, I sure as hell would not want to go through that again being a home owner!


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    #26
    Unrealistic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    OMD wrote: »
    What are you basing the 10% yield on? Are there any countries in the world where 10% yield is normal?
    Ireland. Our sovereign debt is yielding above 10% right now. If you can get 10% on loan note that doesn't require maintenance why would you accept less on a rental property where you're likely to called out in the middle of the night to deal with a burst pipe or something.


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    #27
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    It is a hard question, but in general I would pay 100k for a three bed in a "normal" part of Dublin (e.g. Swords) and about 150k for a nicer part of Dublin, e.g. Stillorgan.

    Personally I am more interested in living outside the city so I would pay about 80k maximum for a nice cottage with at least 10 acres of decent land.
    I think you have not been very logical about your calculations and have failed to see the market has changed fundamentally. There is now a different stock of housing then there was before. Family structures have changed and generally people don't need a three bed house anymore.

    Your calculations suggest somebody on the average national wage will be able to afford a 3 house on their own in the most densely populated area in the country. That is not sustainable and while it may possibly happen on a very temporary basis it is still extremely unlikely. As unlikely as everybody deciding to sell their homes

    You are also suggesting somebody who bought a 10 years ago could sell there house and live mortgage free on a few acres of land quite easily.

    Just because the market has gone down doesn't mean the fundamentals have no bearing on the market. Not everybody is a first time buyer,the national average wage is lower than the capital average wage and there are now a lot more two income families along with single people. You probably should think about the big picture rather than what you would like to happen.


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    #28
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    I think you have not been very logical about your calculations and have failed to see the market has changed fundamentally. There is now a different stock of housing then there was before. Family structures have changed and generally people don't need a three bed house anymore.

    Your calculations suggest somebody on the average national wage will be able to afford a 3 house on their own in the most densely populated area in the country. That is not sustainable and while it may possibly happen on a very temporary basis it is still extremely unlikely. As unlikely as everybody deciding to sell their homes

    You are also suggesting somebody who bought a 10 years ago could sell there house and live mortgage free on a few acres of land quite easily.

    Just because the market has gone down doesn't mean the fundamentals have no bearing on the market. Not everybody is a first time buyer,the national average wage is lower than the capital average wage and there are now a lot more two income families along with single people. You probably should think about the big picture rather than what you would like to happen.

    I couldn't disagree more.

    I am saying someone on the average wage in Dublin should be able to purchase an average home in Dublin. A three bed in a sprawling area like Swords is an average home. You may dislike this but it will become a reality in a few years.

    What I find hilarious about your post is you think a person on the average wage being able to afford an average home in an average part of the city is "unsustainable"...!

    Surely you can see by now our high property prices has been proven unsustainable?

    I can't understand what you are trying to say in the rest of your post.


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    #29
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    I couldn't disagree more.

    I am saying someone on the average wage in Dublin should be able to purchase an average home in Dublin. A three bed in a sprawling area like Swords is an average home. You may dislike this but it will become a reality in a few years.

    What I find hilarious about your post is you think a person on the average wage being able to afford an average home in an average part of the city is "unsustainable"...!

    Surely you can see by now our high property prices has been proven unsustainable?

    I can't understand what you are trying to say in the rest of your post.
    Obviously you failed to grasp the concepts I explained.

    3 bed house is no longer the average home

    The national average is not the same as the average wage in Dublin.

    A single wage is no longer the average situation to buy a family home.

    So essentially you think society will return to simpler times while it has radically changed along with the housing market being transformed.

    You may find it hilarious but it just proves you have no concept of the changes that have happened to Ireland.


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    #30
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,967 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Obviously you failed to grasp the concepts I explained.

    3 bed house is no longer the average home

    The national average is not the same as the average wage in Dublin.

    A single wage is no longer the average situation to buy a family home.

    So essentially you think society will return to simpler times while it has radically changed along with the housing market being transformed.

    You may find it hilarious but it just proves you have no concept of the changes that have happened to Ireland.

    I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make with your posts. Give us some examples of what you think property prices will drop to or what value you see now or would pay etc. Give us hard figures.


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    #31
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »
    I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make with your posts. Give us some examples of what you think property prices will drop to or what value you see now or would pay etc. Give us hard figures.
    Why do you need hard figures?

    The concept is really simple. Not every single person on the average wage will be able to afford a 3 bed house in a Dublin. Why would they?

    So much has changed in the market and society. Depending on the neighborhood the prices will be radically different. Middle class area average middle class income based on two adult wages will probably be the price for a 3 bed house there.

    Places like Clontarf with with more high paid professionals is going to be correspondingly expensive.

    So effectively house prices will only drop so far before they normalize.

    Single people buying 3 bed houses for themselves is not sustainable.

    Swords by the way is not as such a "normal" Dublin area as it is not even in the Dublin post code region. Ultimately affordability of a new mortgages is just as important as the house price. If the interest rate keeps climbing you could buy a house at a cheaper price but still be paying just as much or even more for the mortgage payments.


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