Anyone else pi$$ed of at subsiding tracker mortgages?

positron · 05-04-2011 05:45PM

I am on tracker, and I live out in the commuterland and my mortgage outstanding is still about 5 times my annual income.

I am working really hard to pay the mortgage without fault - but if any of the anti-tracker brigade want to meddle with my situation, sure go ahead, and while at it, may be you could also help deliver my housekeys in a "jingle mail" to the bank - and share rest of the mortage among the rest of your supports.

Please let me know when you are coming, I'll put the kettle on. Seriously. What's the point fighting over this - we are all victims here!

Godge · 05-04-2011 10:42PM

eamo12 wrote: »

Exactly - people want to benefit from the great rate they got (capitalism), but want the taxpayer to fund the low rate when in reality the banks should be in liquidation and all contracts nullified (what's the opposite to capitalism?)

That is deluded. How many times do I have to explain to you what would happen if the banks go into liquidation. Depositors would lose their money, shareholders would lose their money and bondholders would lose their money. They are the people subsidised by the taxpayer.

Those with tracker mortgages would have their loans bundled and sold on at a discount to another bank (whatever they would pay in a firesale) with their contracts honoured. Your delusional rant against tracker mortgage holders has no basis in fact or even speculation.

leeroybrown · 05-04-2011 11:14PM

My final post on this topic:

This thread seems to have run through this circular argument so many times that I can't remember when the last novel point of any substance was made. Is it not just time to kill it off humanely?

dan_d · 06-04-2011 10:14AM

Please? To any mods out there??

positron · 06-04-2011 10:28AM

Just one last question: Does any one here know of the 400,000 or so tracker mortgage holders, how many are with each banks.

The reason being, I remember it was NIB that really championed the LTV tracker mortgages, and I remember they totally captured that market for two - three years. Just out of curiousity, it would be nice to see how many are with NIB, and how many are with the 'state funded' banks.

murphaph · 06-04-2011 07:26PM

positron wrote: »

Just one last question: Does any one here know of the 400,000 or so tracker mortgage holders, how many are with each banks.

The reason being, I remember it was NIB that really championed the LTV tracker mortgages, and I remember they totally captured that market for two - three years. Just out of curiousity, it would be nice to see how many are with NIB, and how many are with the 'state funded' banks.

Ulster Bank also heavily pushed the trackers, also not a bank relying on state support.

Gumbo · 06-04-2011 07:37PM

murphaph wrote: »

Ulster Bank also heavily pushed the trackers, also not a bank relying on state support.

Also Bank Of Scotland (who im with), when they entered the Irish Mortgage market in 2006 were pushing strong deals to get the business, they were offering trackers of ECB + 1.25% and for the first year, you got 0.5% discount on that rate (ECB + 0.75%).

Phoenix Park · 06-04-2011 07:41PM

positron wrote: »

Just one last question: Does any one here know of the 400,000 or so tracker mortgage holders, how many are with each banks.

The reason being, I remember it was NIB that really championed the LTV tracker mortgages, and I remember they totally captured that market for two - three years. Just out of curiousity, it would be nice to see how many are with NIB, and how many are with the 'state funded' banks.

I am on a LTV with NIB. I pay 0.59% above ECB. I borrowed 80% of what they deemed was the value.

Godge · 07-04-2011 03:21PM

positron wrote: »

Just one last question: Does any one here know of the 400,000 or so tracker mortgage holders, how many are with each banks.

The reason being, I remember it was NIB that really championed the LTV tracker mortgages, and I remember they totally captured that market for two - three years. Just out of curiousity, it would be nice to see how many are with NIB, and how many are with the 'state funded' banks.

Had forgotten that most of the banks pushing trackers were foreign-owned. Mine is with NIB. At least if any taxpayer is subsidising my mortgage, it is a Danish taxpayer!:D:D

Gumbo · 07-04-2011 03:31PM

Godge wrote: »

Had forgotten that most of the banks pushing trackers were foreign-owned. Mine is with NIB. At least if any taxpayer is subsidising my mortgage, it is a Danish taxpayer!:D:D

me too, im with BOS, so can i claim that the Queen owns some of my house, so therefore, i have a Royal Palace?

davdvn · 09-04-2011 04:48PM

i have just been reading that the ecb are putting up interest rates by.25% and this is the first rise since 2008.
i have a tracker mortage with perm tsb and my repayments went up by 120euro last month.
a full 1% rise, am i being fleeced by tsb and did any other tsb tracker mortgage holders experience the same.

later12 · 09-04-2011 04:59PM

davdvn wrote: »

i have just been reading that the ecb are putting up interest rates by.25% and this is the first rise since 2008.
i have a tracker mortage with perm tsb and my repayments went up by 120euro last month.
a full 1% rise, am i being fleeced by tsb and did any other tsb tracker mortgage holders experience the same.

Standard variables were to go up 1% in pTSB last month, don't know why a tracker might have changed.

Xcellor · 09-04-2011 05:38PM

davdvn wrote: »

i have just been reading that the ecb are putting up interest rates by.25% and this is the first rise since 2008.
i have a tracker mortage with perm tsb and my repayments went up by 120euro last month.
a full 1% rise, am i being fleeced by tsb and did any other tsb tracker mortgage holders experience the same.

You are not on tracker if you are being charged like that. I would contact the bank for clarification...

andrewdeerpark · 09-04-2011 08:45PM

Xcellor wrote: »

You are not on tracker if you are being charged like that. I would contact the bank for clarification...

Never mind ringing the bank for clarification time for you to dust off your old contract and letters. Knowledge is POWER.

Trackers are valuable and they may be using your ignorance to pull a fast one or they may have spotted some opt out clause, you did not say if you are owner occupier or a landlord plus what qualified you for a tracker in the first place usually you mortgaged less than 60% of the value of the property. Every contract is different.

Get you own independent advice and do not let the bank bully you into any situation. In any meetings bring your own advice and individuals...

davdvn · 10-04-2011 09:08AM

Xcellor wrote: »

You are not on tracker if you are being charged like that. I would contact the bank for clarification...

just checked the open 24 web site and under mortage it states "standard variable rate" i can only assume this is a mistake on the banks part or i didnt read the small print on the tracker i took out.
thanks for replies.

gandalf · 10-04-2011 01:06PM

Coming to this thread late but I really hate this begrudger mentality that exists against people because they did their homework and opted for a contract that made sense to them financially.

I am on a tracker mortgage and damn glad I did go that route. I originally opted for that route because it was the only contract that I could get from the bank that allowed me pay off more and maybe pay my mortgage off early with no penalty from the bank. Obviously I had the additional advantage of tracking the ECB rates closely because I remember clearly the pressure my parents were put through paying their mortgage when it hit rates of around 15% in the 1980's. I just checked my documentation to see what the mark-up was on top of the ECB rate was, I thought it was .75% but actually I got it at .6%.

The people who the OP and others should blame for this is the management in the banks and the financial regulator for allowing products like this enter the Irish market when they were not going to be profitable in the long term.

I certainly don't feel guilty because I did my homework on the biggest financial contract I have committed to so far in my life.

Sand · 10-04-2011 09:41PM

There does seem to be some intense begrudgery going on.

Previously, Ive seen posters trying to blame Joe and Mary Bloggs for ruining the economy by taking out loans they couldnt pay back. Its an idea that takes a good idea (personal responsibility) and exaggerates it to ludicrous extremes (it was all those breakfast roll men taking advantage of those poor innocent bankers). Personally I see it as being part of the "We were all to blame, so no one in particular is to blame" thats so advantageous to those who are to blame. Or it could just be plain old begrudgery.

Now, Joe and Mary Bloggs are up against the wall for taking a loan their banks were really stupid for extending to them because it wasnt actually profitable. I remember listening to a lot of radio and TV pundits warning people to get off trackers back two years ago and I remember being totally puzzled (oh how innocent I was) by how they could be offering such bad advice to Joe and Mary Bloggs.

I am curious when the responsibility of the banks to look out for the interests of their shareholders and their staff comes into play. Or indeed, when the responsibility of the civil service and their responsibility for maintaining economic and fiscal security come into play. Joe and Mary Bloggs are nobodies. Bank executives and civil servants are paid stupendous amounts of money precisely because they are tasked with properly managing the banks and the risks they take.

They failed. Thats their responsibility, not Joe and Mary Bloggs who have their own concerns and their own responsibilities.

I think now though a new chapter has been opened in the Irish story - were going to see a series of interest rate rises from the ECB, and all those people who were just about holding on by their finger tips are going to be forced to default. Thats going to open up a pandoras box of political, social, economic and fiscal issues.

eamo12 · 18-04-2011 12:08PM

positron wrote: »

Please let me know when you are coming, I'll put the kettle on. Seriously. What's the point fighting over this - we are all victims here!

Obviously, some are bigger victims than others.

Well, interesting how everyone here makes a reference to 'Bedgrudgers' and the thought that any mention their dirty little subsidised secret sends them into a flying rage.

Tracker mortgages are subsidised - fact. It is the exact same as tracker mortgage holders dipping their hands into variable rate mortgage holders' pockets and helping themselves to €500 per MONTH, and then flying into a rage and barking 'BEDGRUDGERS' if they complain.

Thankfully this issue is gaining a bit of traction now (perhaps thanks to the smugness of some on this thread) and the issue cannot continue to be ignored. See recent articles in the UK press and some mentions by Michael Noonan. Irish media still too intimidated by the tracker lobby still.

Nobody here has yet addressed the issue - tracker contracts would not be worth the paper they were written on had it not been for the bailout. So, why should one group have such a massive benefit at the expense another because of this. Anyone??

This culture of entitlement has to end and burden sharing must be just that, shared.

seamus · 18-04-2011 12:12PM

eamo12 wrote: »

Nobody here has yet addressed the issue - tracker contracts would not be worth the paper they were written on had it not been for the bailout.

Everybody has addressed this issue, you've just chosen to ignore the answers.

Personally I'd love if my tracker contract wasn't worth the paper it was written on, because then I wouldn't owe anything.

positron · 18-04-2011 12:43PM

Again, just want to remind everyone that so far, every tracker mortgage holder here seems to have their mortgage with non-Irish banks - mostly with NIB, and the rest with Bank of Scotland, Ulster Bank etc.

So, before we spend any more time fighting own corner, just look at the facts - we are probably talking about a few dozen tracker mortgages now owned by the tax payer.

TL;DR/ Vast majority of the tracker mortgages are funded by UK and Danish banks and their tax payers. Don't rock the boat too much, or else, they will notice and in the end will cost Irish tax payer even more...!

jhegarty · 18-04-2011 12:53PM

eamo12 wrote: »

Nobody here has yet addressed the issue - tracker contracts would not be worth the paper they were written on had it not been for the bailout. So, why should one group have such a massive benefit at the expense another because of this. Anyone??

Do you understand if the contract was voided I would need to pay anything back to the bank ?

Head The Wall · 18-04-2011 01:25PM

eamo12 wrote: »

Tracker mortgages are subsidised - fact

If there was never tracker mortgages offered in this country there would still be a massive hole in the banks balance sheet and they would still be getting money from every source possible.

Stop dreaming you're going to get a free house and keep paying your bills which you contractually signed up to do.

dan_d · 18-04-2011 01:50PM

eamo12 wrote: »

Obviously, some are bigger victims than others.

Well, interesting how everyone here makes a reference to 'Bedgrudgers' and the thought that any mention their dirty little subsidised secret sends them into a flying rage.

Tracker mortgages are subsidised - fact. It is the exact same as tracker mortgage holders dipping their hands into variable rate mortgage holders' pockets and helping themselves to €500 per MONTH, and then flying into a rage and barking 'BEDGRUDGERS' if they complain.

Thankfully this issue is gaining a bit of traction now (perhaps thanks to the smugness of some on this thread) and the issue cannot continue to be ignored. See recent articles in the UK press and some mentions by Michael Noonan. Irish media still too intimidated by the tracker lobby still.

Nobody here has yet addressed the issue - tracker contracts would not be worth the paper they were written on had it not been for the bailout. So, why should one group have such a massive benefit at the expense another because of this. Anyone??

This culture of entitlement has to end and burden sharing must be just that, shared.

If that's how you feel, I'll re-direct my 1100eur a month bill to you so. Then you can really subsidise it.

My tracker is with BOSI. Who are now pretty much BOS. So if anyone is subsidising my repayments (and let me assure you, that last I checked, I'm definitely the one producing the repayments every month) it's the British tax payer.

Not worth the paper it's written on? Are you delusional? The minute money is handed over, it's a contract. You buy something in a shop.....you are making a contract with the shopkeeper. It's not on paper, but he has received a payment in return for goods, hence it's a contract. With larger amounts, terms and conditions are naturally added. Trackers are obviously worth the paper they're written on to the banks, who are extremely worried about them, and to the payee - those who are handing over the money every month.

It's absolutely nothing to do with begrudgery - well it might be to those who started this argument.You need to re-read this thread.Your questions have been answered one hundred times over. The raises in the variable rates are due to the banks covering the f&*k ups they made by risky lending, much of which was to developers who are now gone bust. It's a very simple concept to understand and, therefore, I do not understand why you are having so much trouble with it. I do not condone what the banks are doing, but they are hitting the only thing they can in order to raise funds. It's not right by any means, but it's what banks do.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Jaysoose · 18-04-2011 02:08PM

dan_d wrote: »

If that's how you feel, I'll re-direct my 1100eur a month bill to you so. Then you can really subsidise it.

My tracker is with BOSI. Who are now pretty much BOS. So if anyone is subsidising my repayments (and let me assure you, that last I checked, I'm definitely the one producing the repayments every month) it's the British tax payer.

Not worth the paper it's written on? Are you delusional? The minute money is handed over, it's a contract. You buy something in a shop.....you are making a contract with the shopkeeper. It's not on paper, but he has received a payment in return for goods, hence it's a contract. With larger amounts, terms and conditions are naturally added. Trackers are obviously worth the paper they're written on to the banks, who are extremely worried about them, and to the payee - those who are handing over the money every month.

It's absolutely nothing to do with begrudgery - well it might be to those who started this argument.You need to re-read this thread.Your questions have been answered one hundred times over. The raises in the variable rates are due to the banks covering the f&*k ups they made by risky lending, much of which was to developers who are now gone bust. It's a very simple concept to understand and, therefore, I do not understand why you are having so much trouble with it. I do not condone what the banks are doing, but they are hitting the only thing they can in order to raise funds. It's not right by any means, but it's what banks do.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Why bother replying to the guy at this stage, the thread should be renamed..."im not sure how trackers work..but i read some stuff in the paper and im angry..i think".

prospect · 18-04-2011 03:12PM

positron wrote: »

Again, just want to remind everyone that so far, every tracker mortgage holder here seems to have their mortgage with non-Irish banks - mostly with NIB, and the rest with Bank of Scotland, Ulster Bank etc.

My tracker is with AIB.

I'd like to thank Eamo for helping me pay it off, it is very useful, allows me a few quid for a heap of pints 3 nights a week. :rolleyes:

Iwannahurl · 18-04-2011 10:57PM

eamo12 wrote: »

Obviously, some are bigger victims than others.

Well, interesting how everyone here makes a reference to 'Bedgrudgers' and the thought that any mention their dirty little subsidised secret sends them into a flying rage.

Tracker mortgages are subsidised - fact. It is the exact same as tracker mortgage holders dipping their hands into variable rate mortgage holders' pockets and helping themselves to €500 per MONTH, and then flying into a rage and barking 'BEDGRUDGERS' if they complain.

Thankfully this issue is gaining a bit of traction now (perhaps thanks to the smugness of some on this thread) and the issue cannot continue to be ignored. See recent articles in the UK press and some mentions by Michael Noonan. Irish media still too intimidated by the tracker lobby still.

Nobody here has yet addressed the issue - tracker contracts would not be worth the paper they were written on had it not been for the bailout. So, why should one group have such a massive benefit at the expense another because of this. Anyone??

This culture of entitlement has to end and burden sharing must be just that, shared.

"Dirty little subsidised secret", "tracker mortgage holders dipping their hands into variable rate mortgage holders' pockets"...

Pure unadulterated drivel.

When did this alleged subsidy to my lawfully-contracted and duly paid-up mortgage start? When did I start dipping variable rate mortgage holders' pockets? When I bought my house several years ago, took on a large debt and started to make the payments as stipulated by the bank's legally-binding contractual terms?

Or did all this subsidising and dipping suddenly start in the last couple of years?

steve9859 · 18-04-2011 11:04PM

eamo12 wrote: »

tracker contracts would not be worth the paper they were written on had it not been for the bailout.

What a load of nonsense. If you go off on a rant, please get your facts right. Were there not a bailout, and the banks failed, everyone would just pay their mortgage payment to someone else. Terms would stay the same, and someone else would have taken over the bank's side of the contract. From our perspective, nothing would change. Trying to tie this into the bailout to justify your gripe does nothing for your cause.

(I am not on a tracker - I am on a variable rate. So I am not one of the tracker lobby)

Phoenix Park · 19-04-2011 07:51AM

Jaysoose wrote: »

Why bother replying to the guy at this stage, the thread should be renamed..."im not sure how trackers work..but i read some stuff in the paper and im angry..i think".

Don't bother answering, surely the guy is winding you up, nobody can be that thick...can they?

prospect · 19-04-2011 09:16AM

Jaysoose wrote: »

Why bother replying to the guy at this stage, the thread should be renamed..."im not sure how trackers work..but i read some stuff in the paper and im angry..i think".

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Don't bother answering, surely the guy is winding you up, nobody can be that thick...can they?

Well, he did say it was a Fact, and put it in Bold and Italics, soooooo

Fat_Fingers · 19-04-2011 11:14AM

This made me think... Eamo is right. Let me too get angry!
Why should my tax be used to subsidise any mortgage relief as i don’t have property.
I go even more angry just thinking that some of you might have children and my tax is paying for child benefits. I’ll cross this one of my list once and if i do have children of my own. I’ve never been sick, why is my tax paying to all those sick people in hospitals?! Oh and bears... let the bears pay the bear tax.

Anyone else pi$$ed of at subsiding tracker mortgages?

Comments