Anyone else pi$$ed of at subsiding tracker mortgages?

prospect

I was actually very disappointed with Ivan's attitude this morning, and I usually find myself in agreement with him.

I still don't understand this lynch mob mentality at Tracker mortgage holders when clearly the fault lies with the banks who lent the money, the regulator who didn't regulate and all the people who borrowed money they couldn't afford.

Look at it like this,
The banks are loosing money (not purely because tracker mortgage holders, but for the reasons outline above).
They need to recoup as much as possible they can do it three ways:

1. Cut their costs.
2. Legally increase price of their products, like variable rate mortgages.
3. Illegally increase the price of their tracker mortgages.

erictheviking1

Tracker mortgage holders being subsidised?:rolleyes:
It amazes me that people are actually worried about banks losing money:D
They would take the food from your kids mouths if you let them.
With ECB rates rising over the next few years the banks will be getting their money back and some in the long term. An added bonus is the begrudgers can watch as people struggle to pay.:rolleyes:

Floppybits

prospect wrote: »

I was actually very disappointed with Ivan's attitude this morning, and I usually find myself in agreement with him.

I still don't understand this lynch mob mentality at Tracker mortgage holders when clearly the fault lies with the banks who lent the money, the regulator who didn't regulate and all the people who borrowed money they couldn't afford.

Look at it like this,
The banks are loosing money (not purely because tracker mortgage holders, but for the reasons outline above).
They need to recoup as much as possible they can do it three ways:

1. Cut their costs.
2. Legally increase price of their products, like variable rate mortgages.
3. Illegally increase the price of their tracker mortgages.

I use to be in the same boat as you in regards to Yates but lately I thinking that he is just saying things to stir the pot and possibly trying to increase revenue via text messages to the show by spouting the rubbish like he did this morning. Does he really think that everyone on a tracker is not paying for the bank bailout?

So banks are loosing money on trackers so why don't they come up with some sort of offer to those people on trackers to get them off it? They could offer cash or a reduction in the amount of the mortgage or maybe offer people on trackers a special fixed rate mortgage for say 10 years if they agree to come off the trackers.

It seems to me that banks are just not doing enough and are just sitting back and taking the hand outs.

themacdaddy

danbohan wrote: »

maybe I should stop blaming other people for my problems in not been able too afford a holiday and place the blame where it really belongs , with myself

Well said Dan. I can understand everyones frustration who does not have a tracker. I don't. But at the same time it was the bank that made the mistake in offering the 'product' those to people. The banks have been ripping people off for decades so its nice to see them get a taste of their own medicine. It is just a pity they can pass it on to everyone else. In a perfect world I would have loved to see all the banks fall but sadly we couldn't/didn't do it.

Donal Og O Baelach

How much are tracker holders really benefiting though?
Say on a 200,000 mortgage, can anyone please work out the different monthly repayments between a tracker and a variable?

seamus

prospect wrote: »

I was actually very disappointed with Ivan's attitude this morning, and I usually find myself in agreement with him.

I didn't even hear it, in fact I've stopped listening to newstalk because of Ivan; he's just a troll who says things to get people annoyed. His opinions are usually factually incorrect or otherwise lacking in foresight.

murphaph

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Because you were TOO STUPID to change to a tracker when you could...between 2004 and 2008 or so. Most variable rate mortgagees evidently did.

Exactly. I was basically being screwed by the ICS building society for 3 years with repayments of ca. €800 a month and something like 32 years to run on the mortgage. I switched to UB after trackers came on the market and paid not a penny in legal fees due to their WELL ADVERTISED 'switcher' mortgage. I kept paying about the same per month (actually about €830) but my term was immediately reduced by TWELVE YEARS to 20 years. I made the switch in 2003 so now have about 12 years to run.

I don't begrudge tracker holders who got a better tracker rate than me (I pay 1.25% above ECB, many with National Irish Bank pay less than that and I say good luck to them) and I believe a lot of this antagonism is indeed pure Irish begrudgery and nothing more. You should have switched or taken out a tracker to begin with. People opted for silly introductory discount rates to save a few quid in year one and then let their bank switch them to their standard variable rate without question. Poor financial decision making in what is the biggest purchase most people will ever make.

halkar

Donal Og O Baelach wrote: »

How much are tracker holders really benefiting though?
Say on a 200,000 mortgage, can anyone please work out the different monthly repayments between a tracker and a variable?

I did a quick basic calculation on Karl's Mort. Calc.

Based on 200k borrowed at 2007 for 25 years :

On 5% (roughly what is around these days) it is 1169€ monthly.
On 2.25 % (Ecb 1 + plus 1.25) it is about 872€

Almost 300€ difference and maybe more as some trackers are lower than ecb+1.25. Over 600€ difference if the mort. amount is 400k :eek: based on above figures

Iwannahurl

eamo12 wrote: »

Well, this issue came of on newstalk this morning. If I had a tracker, I'd be upset as well with the prospect of paying their fair share, but there is no doubt that tracker mortgages are being subsidised. The point was made that no contract stands in the case of a liquidation. If you think that the trackers mortgage would have been bundled up and sold to German investors, then you are mistaken - they wouldn't touch them even for a 90% discount.

The reason this issue has been kept under the radar is because there are twice as many tracker mortgages as variable rates, so they try to keep the issue quiet, or shout it down when it does come up. Burn the trackers. Good work to newstalk.

Fair share of what?

We're paying our mortgage, nobody else is.

Not only that, we're still making the necessary repayments (nearly ten years into the term) even though our net income has been drastically reduced due to increased taxes and levies introduced to help bail out the banks.

Iwannahurl

seamus wrote: »

I didn't even hear it, in fact I've stopped listening to newstalk because of Ivan; he's just a troll who says things to get people annoyed. His opinions are usually factually incorrect or otherwise lacking in foresight.

The Gerry Ryan school of broadcasting?

dan_d

Actually the same could be said about most news presenters/interviewers these days. They've moved off the public/private debate, there's a new Gov, so now it's on to the mortgages. You say black, they'll say white and there isn't an ounce of logic behind the reasoning or their questions. It tends to just be sensationalist journalism and that's it.

rodento

Quite simply the government should stop morgage relief for these people

seamus

rodento wrote: »

Quite simply the government should stop morgage relief for these people

On what basis?

rodento

On the basis that they already are getting tax relief on their morgages, its to much to ask for the tax payer to pay for the short fall of their mortgages as well.

seamus

Ah you mean, mortgage relief for jobseekers? Doesn't seem all that fair, people on variable rates also get TRS and mortgage relief if they too are unemployed.

rodento

Who you calling mean:eek:

I refer to the tax credits(relief) for loan interest (Secured and Unsecured)
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it1.html#section7

Maglight

And what about people who took out Tracker mortgages with Bank of Scotland Ireland. Should they be forced onto variable rate mortgages? OK, so the Irish government hasn't bailed out BOSI, but perhaps they should lose tax relief because their repayments are going out of the country.

Following that logic, we should put a higher tax levy on imported beer

nice1franko

The amount of sheer nonsense on this thread is mind-boggling.

EoghanConway

nice1franko wrote: »

The amount of sheer nonsense on this thread is mind-boggling.

The title leaves me unsurprised at the contents TBH.

seamus

rodento wrote: »

I refer to the tax credits(relief) for loan interest (Secured and Unsecured)
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it1.html#section7

rodento wrote: »

On the basis that they already are getting tax relief on their morgages

So you're calling for "mortgage relief" to be taken away on the basis that tracker holders are already getting "tax relief" on their mortgages?

What is this mysterious "tracker-only" tax relief and how do I avail of it? I only get TRS on my mortgage, and incidentally anyone on a higher variable rate is getting more tax relief than me. OMG! IT'S SO UNFAIR!

jjmcclure

eamo12 wrote: »

Then so be it - that is a good point. If we all were to get free houses, great, or there might have been some sort of financial meltdown - whatever! But the govt intervened to the effect that now we have one group (variable) effectively subsidizing another (trackers). PPL here think that's great - I don't.

It's simple Eamo. You should have got a TRACKER!!

Would you consider those who bet on a loosing horse as subsidising the winners? You make your choices and live with them. A contract is a contract is a contract....

PS.
I LOVE MY TRACKER!!!

jamesbrond

We were moving our mortgage from the original bank to another bank for the lower fixed rate that they had. On the day before we were to sign the mortgage over, the original bank phone me and offered me a tracker at ECB + 0.5%.

They offered. I took it.

Over the next couple of years we were paying hundreds more on the tracker than we would have been on the fixed rate as rates were rising fairly fast at the time. We wondered had we made a big mistake, but paid the consequences.

It works out for us now, and for the last couple of years. But I didnt hear the bank offering us our money back when they were doing much better than us out of the deal.

The bank sold me a product. I bought it. End of story.

Firefox11

Tracker Mortgages are not the problem. if people want to get pissed off than it's the mortgage interest relief is the government subsidy for mortgage holders. and FG want to increase it!!! ta very much!!

bamboozle

Firefox11 wrote: »

Tracker Mortgages are not the problem. if people want to get pissed off than it's the mortgage interest relief is the government subsidy for mortgage holders. and FG want to increase it!!! ta very much!!

exactly, give it 6 months and a few ECB rate hikes and the mood swing will very much go away from tracker mortgages onto mortgage interest rates in general.

this is the big issue coming down the tracks, when ECB rate rise over the next few months, mortgages will go up, mortgage non-payment & default will increase, more houses will go on sale, house prices will further drop & there will be huge pressure on the Government to provide far great mortgage interest relief to mortgage holders.

back in the 1980's the govt provided 100% interest relief on mortgages but will they be able to do that when the mortgage crisis hits? my concern is the amount of money being drained by the banks there will be nothing left for Joe Soap in his 3 bed semi-d.

Jaysoose

jamesbrond wrote: »

We were moving our mortgage from the original bank to another bank for the lower fixed rate that they had. On the day before we were to sign the mortgage over, the original bank phone me and offered me a tracker at ECB + 0.5%.

They offered. I took it.

Over the next couple of years we were paying hundreds more on the tracker than we would have been on the fixed rate as rates were rising fairly fast at the time. We wondered had we made a big mistake, but paid the consequences.

It works out for us now, and for the last couple of years. But I didnt hear the bank offering us our money back when they were doing much better than us out of the deal.

The bank sold me a product. I bought it. End of story.

Exactly there wasnt a peep when the tracker rates were higher than fixed and variables. Im on a tracker and i wont be getting rid of it any time soon, unlucky to whoever took fixed or variable but you cant have it every way.

Floppybits

bamboozle wrote: »

exactly, give it 6 months and a few ECB rate hikes and the mood swing will very much go away from tracker mortgages onto mortgage interest rates in general.

This is also the reason why banks have not been breaking their backs trying to get people of tracker mortgages. They know that interest rates are going to rise so they are going to recoup the money lost on the trackers when that happens. If the banks thought they wont recoup anything I bet anyone with a tracker would be getting calls from their banks with all sorts of offers to come off the tracker.

jjmcclure

Floppybits wrote: »

This is also the reason why banks have not been breaking their backs trying to get people of tracker mortgages. They know that interest rates are going to rise so they are going to recoup the money lost on the trackers when that happens. If the banks thought they wont recoup anything I bet anyone with a tracker would be getting calls from their banks with all sorts of offers to come off the tracker.

The banks are accepting proposals from people on Trackers to move away. BOSI have a back log in respect to this. I have a proposal with them at the moment.

Correct me if I'm wrong but interest rates moving up won't help the Irish banks as the will still be borrowing short term money to cover the tracker mortgages and therefore the interest rate they pay moves up also.

theofficepest2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdJSrldXtc4

robd

Interesting and heated debated. I don't really want to add my own right or wrong on it, and I acknowledge they are legally binding contracts taken out in good faith by customers.

If we look to the US though, who are the leaders in jiggury pokery when in times of need, in other words when their banks and hence economy were bust, they basically changed the rules each time. For example, at the stroke of a pen they came off the gold standard and made their bonds no longer redeemable for gold. They confiscated gold at another time.

Could/Would the Irish government (directed by EU/IMF) change the rules of play, via legislation, with regard to tracker mortgages if it propped up the banks. You better believe it.

I wouldn't like to definitively call it, but do I believe their is a strong risk that tracker mortgages could be legislated away via some emergency bill.

halkar

bamboozle wrote: »

exactly, give it 6 months and a few ECB rate hikes and the mood swing will very much go away from tracker mortgages onto mortgage interest rates in general...

I think it will be very long time before Ecb rate + trackers to reach to current fixed and variable rates out there. With Portugal in the basket now and possibly Spain following for bailouts and Greece probably defaulting. It also depends on US data. I don't see the rates will go up much in near future while US has almost 0 %.
ECB will probably increase by .25% and will stay static for rest of the year (possibly next year too).

God, I love my tracker:D
Sorry