fair played to the dinosaurs ye have running the gardai!!

Eru · 31-03-2011 01:29PM

charlemont wrote: »

You know all the answers !! Do you anything about the legal drugs people misuse ?? Anadins Oh my god, Ha Ha.
Have you ever heard of Valium, Upjohns, D5's/D10's, Zanax ??
(These drugs would commonly be referred to as Smarties, Relaxers)

Yes I smoke some Hash and go on a rampage, kicking in car windows and snatching bags, Asking random strangers for money. Breaking into buildings. False confidence is needed for these stupid acts and you wont get that confidence from smoking Hash alone.

What do I mean by drug crime ?? Well if you cant figure that one out, Then I think Houston ,We have a problem..

A problem with addicts robbing and stealing things to sell/swop for drugs, ie Breaking into dwellings, cars, shops etc :cool:

Your not really saying anything new here are you? Still showing the same ignorance of the law, criminals and drugs.

Asnwer these simple questions:

A, You do realise what Gardai do dont you?

B, You do realise who deals with a persons addictions dont you?

C, You do realise that if a tablet is legal its legal regardless of how people use it right? Its completely besides the point is its anadin or valium that a persons knocking back. It remains a legal item. You get that dont you?

D, What makes you think that criminals need to take a drug (legal or otherwise) before committing crime? Please, whats your basis for that belief?

E, What else does your dealer sell?

F, Who is importing for your dealer?

G, Going back to point c, if hash was legalised would it be ok for criminals and heroin users to smoke it while standing around the Boardwalk?

H, You do realise that we havent yet passed an appearance law so looking like a junkie / criminal / scumbag isnt actually against the law, right?

I, Moving even further from H, you do realise that being addicted to heroin is no more illegal than being addicted to alcohol, cigarettes or gambling.

J, Drug crime means a crime involving drugs under the misuse of Drugs Act 1977 / 84 which actually my friend, YOU commit by your own admission. What your calling drug crime is in fact called theft primarily with a bit of robbery or criminal damage thrown in. So yep, we do have a problem but its your lack of understanding or the subject. Guess what? Most of these crimes aren't committed by junkies.

The thing is, if you have a problem with hash being illegal thats fine, if you think it should be sold in shops, again thats fine. In fact I wont even disagree with you but I dont understand how people can expect Gardai to solve addictions they didnt create and arent legally empowered to deal with. Then cry foul over some minor infraction against YOUR civil right but demand we lock people up simple because YOU dont like how they look.

charlemont · 01-04-2011 07:35PM

Eru wrote: »

Your not really saying anything new here are you? Still showing the same ignorance of the law, criminals and drugs.

Asnwer these simple questions:

A, You do realise what Gardai do dont you?

B, You do realise who deals with a persons addictions dont you?

C, You do realise that if a tablet is legal its legal regardless of how people use it right? Its completely besides the point is its anadin or valium that a persons knocking back. It remains a legal item. You get that dont you?

D, What makes you think that criminals need to take a drug (legal or otherwise) before committing crime? Please, whats your basis for that belief?

E, What else does your dealer sell?

F, Who is importing for your dealer?

G, Going back to point c, if hash was legalised would it be ok for criminals and heroin users to smoke it while standing around the Boardwalk?

H, You do realise that we havent yet passed an appearance law so looking like a junkie / criminal / scumbag isnt actually against the law, right?

I, Moving even further from H, you do realise that being addicted to heroin is no more illegal than being addicted to alcohol, cigarettes or gambling.

J, Drug crime means a crime involving drugs under the misuse of Drugs Act 1977 / 84 which actually my friend, YOU commit by your own admission. What your calling drug crime is in fact called theft primarily with a bit of robbery or criminal damage thrown in. So yep, we do have a problem but its your lack of understanding or the subject. Guess what? Most of these crimes aren't committed by junkies.

The thing is, if you have a problem with hash being illegal thats fine, if you think it should be sold in shops, again thats fine. In fact I wont even disagree with you but I dont understand how people can expect Gardai to solve addictions they didnt create and arent legally empowered to deal with. Then cry foul over some minor infraction against YOUR civil right but demand we lock people up simple because YOU dont like how they look.

My original argument is basically that Hash/Weed by its nature is much easier to detect on people/property. That actually gives a dealer an incentive to deal with a powder based drug as its easier to conceal so therefore less chance of getting caught.

Where I live almost all crime is connected to hard drugs or alcohol, the Gardaí in this area know who most of the addicts are and unfortunately the prison is leaving them out on T.R. as its overcrowded.

As for ignorance, well you have proved what you think about a member of the public having an opinion and you have moved so far from my original comment as to be on wheels !!

Drug crime as in smoking Hash/Weed doesn't have an effect on the general public whereas some addict smashing car windows does.

Ill answer these questions now.
A. Yes
B. Yes an inadequate health system, And a useless court service system that leaves these people re offend over and over again.
C. Yes
D. Iv seen the effect 1st hand where I live, Various shops held up by idiots on drugs, both hard and legal.
E. Not my business.
F. No Idea, Dont really care
G. Better than seeing them shooting up, it should legally be treated same as a person drinking a can of beer in public.
H. Iv mentioned nowhere anything about someones appearance, This is just you dragging the subject farther and farther away.
I. It has a bigger effect on crime as the Heroin itself is illegal, so the money involved supports organised crime, whereas the others mentioned are legal.
J. Most of these crimes are not committed by stoners either.

I agree completely with what you said at the bottom. But iv mentioned nothing about locking people up by their appearance. And im not trying to be anti Gardaí or anything either, Im only stating what i see and what I know..:pac:

whoopdedoo · 01-04-2011 09:28PM

so correct me if I'm wrong but eru has just stated the gardai want nothing to do with people out of their heads/selling on prescription drugs even though 99% probably don't have a script from a gp to be in possession of the drugs in the first place!

that's just ridiculous imo

I should have went on the valiums and not been smokin the herb half me life!

Eru · 01-04-2011 09:32PM

charlemont wrote: »

My original argument is basically that Hash/Weed by its nature is much easier to detect on people/property. That actually gives a dealer an incentive to deal with a powder based drug as its easier to conceal so therefore less chance of getting caught.

Where I live almost all crime is connected to hard drugs or alcohol, the Gardaí in this area know who most of the addicts are and unfortunately the prison is leaving them out on T.R. as its overcrowded.

As for ignorance, well you have proved what you think about a member of the public having an opinion and you have moved so far from my original comment as to be on wheels !!

Drug crime as in smoking Hash/Weed doesn't have an effect on the general public whereas some addict smashing car windows does.

Ill answer these questions now.
A. Yes
B. Yes an inadequate health system, And a useless court service system that leaves these people re offend over and over again.
C. Yes
D. Iv seen the effect 1st hand where I live, Various shops held up by idiots on drugs, both hard and legal.
E. Not my business.
F. No Idea, Dont really care
G. Better than seeing them shooting up, it should legally be treated same as a person drinking a can of beer in public.
H. Iv mentioned nowhere anything about someones appearance, This is just you dragging the subject farther and farther away.
I. It has a bigger effect on crime as the Heroin itself is illegal, so the money involved supports organised crime, whereas the others mentioned are legal.
J. Most of these crimes are not committed by stoners either.

I agree completely with what you said at the bottom. But iv mentioned nothing about locking people up by their appearance. And im not trying to be anti Gardaí or anything either, Im only stating what i see and what I know..:pac:

I would direct you to B, E, F, I and J and your answers to them. I dont feel the need to comment any further as I'm confident that anyone reading this thread will see the severe holes in your arguement and your lack of knowledge of the subject.

Eru · 01-04-2011 09:40PM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

so correct me if I'm wrong but eru has just stated the gardai want nothing to do with people out of their heads/selling on prescription drugs even though 99% probably don't have a script from a gp to be in possession of the drugs in the first place!

that's just ridiculous imo

I should have went on the valiums and not been smokin the herb half me life!

Its legal, Gardai are there for illegal activity, if you make bad decisions or take things that are bad for you is not our problem. I fail to see the issue here. You may as well blame bus drivers.

(you can make a complaint to the medical board that theres people selling without a pharmacists license if you want)

Perhaps you shouldn't take anything that unhealthy and not required hmmm? Less smoking, less drinking and more fibre or should we start to police the populations fibre intake as well?

Seriously though, think about it for a second, your suggesting it should be illegal to be in possession of prescription drugs unless they are yours, correct? Who here has used a painkiller or antibiotic that was given to their wife / mother / father for that sore back or killer migraine? How many people have carried medicines in their pockets or bags for someone? How many have collected prescriptions for a family member? Thats all being in possession of prescription drugs that aren't yours.

Folks, think about it fully before commenting because its not us and them, its simple all of us that the laws effect.

whoopdedoo · 02-04-2011 05:27PM

Eru wrote: »

Its legal, Gardai are there for illegal activity, if you make bad decisions or take things that are bad for you is not our problem. I fail to see the issue here. You may as well blame bus drivers.

(you can make a complaint to the medical board that theres people selling without a pharmacists license if you want)

Perhaps you shouldn't take anything that unhealthy and not required hmmm? Less smoking, less drinking and more fibre or should we start to police the populations fibre intake as well?

Seriously though, think about it for a second, your suggesting it should be illegal to be in possession of prescription drugs unless they are yours, correct? Who here has used a painkiller or antibiotic that was given to their wife / mother / father for that sore back or killer migraine? How many people have carried medicines in their pockets or bags for someone? How many have collected prescriptions for a family member? Thats all being in possession of prescription drugs that aren't yours.

Folks, think about it fully before commenting because its not us and them, its simple all of us that the laws effect.

you're really good at splitting hairs there eru and also at throwing up nonsensical arguments about dietary habits! first off, if I was a member of the Garda I'd be ashamed to be reading your response quoted above, without you knowing you are exposing the level of intelligence a typical upholder of the law might have and that's quite scary in my eyes.

over 500 people die each year in Ireland due to prescription drug abuse and even though some of it is the fault of some GPs they black market is awash with "legal" drugs!

also, are you not aware that the scenario you describe above of being offered/taking a tab not prescribed to you specifically could land both people in a lot of bother, mainly a possession charge for the taker and the other may also get a supply charge, no money need change hands as you well know but in typical ignorant fashion you volunteered your ridiculous notions on "drugs" thinking you know it all and you are nothing but correct and right in your views!

http://www.addictionireland.ie/faq/article.asp?FID=55&T=F

Irelands drug laws : the contradictions are plain mental!! cannabis is landed in category 1 meaning they're believed to be of no medical use whatsoever yet countries all over the world and the eu are now admitting cannabis has indeed many many medical uses!! also in cat 1 with no medical use is LSD which is great in small doses for migrane, ecstasy which is now making a return to the counselling for post traumatic stress etc.

so there's 3 of the drugs in cat 1 in Ireland with no supposed medical uses yet they actually do!!!

read below

The availability of drugs in Ireland is controlled by a number of laws. For example, there are laws restricting the supply of legal, prescription drugs through pharmacies only. The sale of alcohol and tobacco is also regulated, mainly to prevent young people drinking and smoking. The Misuse of Drugs Acts (MDA) are the main laws controlling the drugs we term 'illegal' drugs.

The MDA aims to prevent the non-medical use of drugs. This includes the misuse of medicinal drugs, as well as the use of drugs for which there is no medical use.

Drugs covered by the MDA are known as controlled drugs and are listed in five lists, known as schedules. For example, Schedule One lists drugs that are considered to have no medical use, and includes hallucinogenic drugs and so-called 'designer' drugs, such as ecstasy. Schedule Two drugs have medical uses, but are dangerous if misused - this list includes opiates, such as morphine.

The MDA defines a series of offences relating to controlled drugs. These offences include unlawful production, possession and supply of these drugs, growing opium or cannabis and forging prescriptions. The law makes a distinction between possession of a drug for your own personal use, and possession with intent to supply to others (dealing), for which the penalties are heavier. Gardai and Customs officers have special powers to stop, detain and search people and vehicles without a warrant if they suspect that someone is in possession of a controlled drug.

MagicSean · 03-04-2011 09:55AM

Just for a bit of clarity. There is no simple posession charge for prescription drugs. It is not illegal to be high unless it causes you to do something illegal (i.e. public order, driving under the influence).

The drugs in cat 1 are considered to have negligable medical side-effects compared to their main effects. LSD and ecstasy are not medicinal drugs. LSD might cure a headache but so can knocking yourself unconscious and I doubt your doctor will recommend that.

whoopdedoo · 04-04-2011 10:00AM

k_mac wrote: »

The drugs in cat 1 are considered to have negligable medical side-effects compared to their main effects. LSD and ecstasy are not medicinal drugs. LSD might cure a headache but so can knocking yourself unconscious and I doubt your doctor will recommend that.

the law is more precise than your interpretations:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_Drugs_Act_(Ireland)

here's some info on medical uses of cannabis

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/emotional_health/addictions/cannabis.shtml

LSD

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide

XTC

http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/

professore · 04-04-2011 10:11AM

foreign wrote: »

It was to do with Norris being openly gay when it was illegal in this country. Somehow thats the same as being a drug user / cultivator.

Foreign, I don't think you spelled it out correctly.
Gay SEX was illegal, being openly gay was not. Prof Norris was practising gay sex and admitted to it, a criminal act at the time.

Ash.J.Williams · 04-04-2011 10:35AM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

within days of a letter being written by a proper scumbag td against Ming growing cannabis, the gardai are to investigate this like it's the most serious threat against the credibility of the law in this country since the founding of the state!

where the fcuk are the gardai when it comes to Bertie Ahern, Cowen, Lenihan, Lowry, Denis Desmond etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc!!!!!

shame on anyone who has a hand in this investigation and best of luck with getting to the bottom of it too bahahahahahahaha

ps. gardai are appealing to members of the public to be vigilant and to pass on any info to their local Garda stn or call it in by pressing the hash key

best thing you can do is go and report the people you mentioned for the crimes you believe they have committed.

04-04-2011 11:40AM

professore wrote: »

Foreign, I don't think you spelled it out correctly.
Gay SEX was illegal, being openly gay was not. Prof Norris was practising gay sex and admitted to it, a criminal act at the time.

Either way, comparing how two consenting adults have sex in not the same as buying an illegal substance from a criminal which is in turn directly supporting shootings and bombings.

Eru · 04-04-2011 03:36PM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

you're really good at splitting hairs there eru and also at throwing up nonsensical arguments about dietary habits! first off, if I was a member of the Garda I'd be ashamed to be reading your response quoted above, without you knowing you are exposing the level of intelligence a typical upholder of the law might have and that's quite scary in my eyes.

over 500 people die each year in Ireland due to prescription drug abuse and even though some of it is the fault of some GPs they black market is awash with "legal" drugs!

also, are you not aware that the scenario you describe above of being offered/taking a tab not prescribed to you specifically could land both people in a lot of bother, mainly a possession charge for the taker and the other may also get a supply charge, no money need change hands as you well know but in typical ignorant fashion you volunteered your ridiculous notions on "drugs" thinking you know it all and you are nothing but correct and right in your views!

http://www.addictionireland.ie/faq/article.asp?FID=55&T=F

Irelands drug laws : the contradictions are plain mental!! cannabis is landed in category 1 meaning they're believed to be of no medical use whatsoever yet countries all over the world and the eu are now admitting cannabis has indeed many many medical uses!! also in cat 1 with no medical use is LSD which is great in small doses for migrane, ecstasy which is now making a return to the counselling for post traumatic stress etc.

so there's 3 of the drugs in cat 1 in Ireland with no supposed medical uses yet they actually do!!!

read below

The availability of drugs in Ireland is controlled by a number of laws. For example, there are laws restricting the supply of legal, prescription drugs through pharmacies only. The sale of alcohol and tobacco is also regulated, mainly to prevent young people drinking and smoking. The Misuse of Drugs Acts (MDA) are the main laws controlling the drugs we term 'illegal' drugs.

The MDA aims to prevent the non-medical use of drugs. This includes the misuse of medicinal drugs, as well as the use of drugs for which there is no medical use.

Drugs covered by the MDA are known as controlled drugs and are listed in five lists, known as schedules. For example, Schedule One lists drugs that are considered to have no medical use, and includes hallucinogenic drugs and so-called 'designer' drugs, such as ecstasy. Schedule Two drugs have medical uses, but are dangerous if misused - this list includes opiates, such as morphine.

The MDA defines a series of offences relating to controlled drugs. These offences include unlawful production, possession and supply of these drugs, growing opium or cannabis and forging prescriptions. The law makes a distinction between possession of a drug for your own personal use, and possession with intent to supply to others (dealing), for which the penalties are heavier. Gardai and Customs officers have special powers to stop, detain and search people and vehicles without a warrant if they suspect that someone is in possession of a controlled drug.

waffle of the highest order and again exposing your lack of understanding. Do some research on what a 'controlled drug' actually is as compared to what you consider it to be. Controlled is defined by the minister, not based on needing a prescription or your personal opinion.

This is why to much CSI is bad for people, it leads them to believe they actually know the law and police work. That may also be why none of my colleagues are actually agreeing with you.

Now feel free to waffle about law all you like or change to some other crazy arguement but remember, reading a law via google search only shows you can read, not that you understand the law in question or the hundreds of case laws that have amended it in the last 30 odd years. I wont be replying again either way

whoopdedoo · 05-04-2011 12:32PM

foreign wrote: »

Either way, comparing how two consenting adults have sex in not the same as buying an illegal substance from a criminal which is in turn directly supporting shootings and bombings.

ya but ya see Ming wasn't doing any of what you mention above! he grew his own plants and smoked it in the privacy of his own home!

whoopdedoo · 05-04-2011 12:39PM

Eru wrote: »

waffle of the highest order and again exposing your lack of understanding. Do some research on what a 'controlled drug' actually is as compared to what you consider it to be. Controlled is defined by the minister, not based on needing a prescription or your personal opinion.

This is why to much CSI is bad for people, it leads them to believe they actually know the law and police work. That may also be why none of my colleagues are actually agreeing with you.

Now feel free to waffle about law all you like or change to some other crazy arguement but remember, reading a law via google search only shows you can read, not that you understand the law in question or the hundreds of case laws that have amended it in the last 30 odd years. I wont be replying again either way

you are a classic example of the type of ignorant prick of a Garda I would hate to have the misfortune of meeting!

as far as I'm concerned you've done plenty of talking out of your hole in this thread and have highlighted the ignorance of some of our police force when it comes to the law and applying it evenly and fairly!

angelfire9 · 05-04-2011 12:47PM

k_mac wrote: »

LSD might cure a headache but so can knocking yourself unconscious and I doubt your doctor will recommend that.

:D:D:D:D

As for the other poster
It is next to impossible to get a conviction for possession of legal drugs as stated by ERU i think someone who collects a prescription in a pharmacy on behalf of a sick relative is strictly speaking in possession of prescribed drugs not for their own use and not prescribed for them nonetheless they won't be prosecuted for it

With Possession of Class A drugs like cocaine or even Class C drugs like Cannabis there is no grey area it is illegal and that's that

Shield · 05-04-2011 03:24PM

Infracted and banned for one month for this post.

No comments on this post please and thanks.

whoopdedoo wrote: »

you are a classic example of the type of ignorant prick of a Garda I would hate to have the misfortune of meeting!

Chipboard · 10-04-2011 08:53PM

Paulzx wrote: »

John Gilligan got 20 odd years for importation of hash.

...for importation of hash...

I don't think so.

source · 10-04-2011 09:13PM

Chipboard wrote: »

...for importation of hash...

I don't think so.

Just goes to show that you don't know what you're talking about. In 2001 he was convicted to 30 years for possession of 20,000 kilos of cannabis resin. Reduced on appeal to 20 years. He was acquitted on charges of murder relating to the murder of Veronica Guerin.

Paulzx · 11-04-2011 10:21PM

Chipboard wrote: »

...for importation of hash...

I don't think so.

I do think so.

Read back about the case. Here's a bit of help for ya

http://www.rte.ie/news/2001/0315/gilligan.html

Chipboard · 15-04-2011 09:55PM

I'll spell it out so.

If all he ever did was import hash he wouldn't have been jailed for 20 years.

If your naive enough to think that the effort that was put in to get him off the street was because of a bit of the ganje you have got to be joking.

Al Capone was put away for tax evasion.

source · 15-04-2011 11:15PM

Chipboard wrote: »

I'll spell it out so.

If all he ever did was import hash he wouldn't have been jailed for 20 years.

If your naive enough to think that the effort that was put in to get him off the street was because of a bit of the ganje you have got to be joking.

Al Capone was put away for tax evasion.

And John Gilligan was put away for importing cannabis. 20,000 kilos of it. Not as you put it "a bit of ganje". Read the news reports and court reports. No matter what your opinion is, the fact is that he was convicted for 20 years for the importation and possession of 20,000 kilos of cannabis.

I know that you're insinuating that it had something to do with the Veronica Guerian murder, however that case was held the year after he received the 20 year sentence, and he was (unfortunately) acquitted.

Do you mind if I ask what is your expertise in the criminal justice system? I ask this because it is obvious that you're talking out your hole in the above posts.

Chipboard · 16-04-2011 08:39AM

foinse wrote: »

you're talking out your hole in the above posts.

Listen Mr "I was bullied at school, now it's my turn", I will state my view on here if I wish and you can take your ignorant language elsewhere because I won't be abused by your type.

The chronology of the cases means nothing.

Tough guy on boards - how original!

CaseyRyback · 16-04-2011 09:02AM

This entire thread was only ever going to be one big trollfest.

As an aside its amusing how much anti-police sentiment there is on this forum.

source · 16-04-2011 10:05AM

Chipboard wrote: »

Listen Mr "I was bullied at school, now it's my turn", I will state my view on here if I wish and you can take your ignorant language elsewhere because I won't be abused by your type.

The chronology of the cases means nothing.

Tough guy on boards - how original!

I wasn't bullied in school, and I have no problems with you stating your view, however on this forum, we like it when a view is backed up with proof, ie when you make a point, put up a link to back it up. Also when proven wrong, and evidence contrary to your view is given to you.........guess what???? that's the time to back down and accept that your view is wrong.

Paulzx · 16-04-2011 10:35AM

Chipboard wrote: »

I'll spell it out so.

If all he ever did was import hash he wouldn't have been jailed for 20 years.

If your naive enough to think that the effort that was put in to get him off the street was because of a bit of the ganje you have got to be joking.

Al Capone was put away for tax evasion.

Did you bother to read the links supplied? He was jailed for 20 years for the importation of millions of euro worth of cannabis. Not Heroin. Not cocaine. Are you just ignoring this and imagining your own made up story?

Shield · 16-04-2011 01:58PM

Warning issued for flaming. No further comments on this part of this post please and thanks.

foinse wrote: »

I ask this because it is obvious that you're talking out your hole in the above posts.

fair played to the dinosaurs ye have running the gardai!!

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