Irish and its detractors.

Aimsigh · 07-04-2011 07:04PM #1

I have seen some amazing feets of Logical dexterity when it comes to arguing against Irish, If the language's detractors are to be believed Irish is a Dead peasent language with loads of made up words, that is too purist to borrow words from other languages, that everyone hates and is spoken by elitists who only send their kids to Gaelscoils for racist reasons.

If rich people don't speak Irish it's a peasant language, if they do its a snob language.

When students are mandated merely to sit in an Irish class for two hours a week by their school to receive a capitation grant, Irish is being forced upon them, yet people chose to speak English out of their own free will, this despite all education, administration, legislation, commerce and even religion having been mandated (by ecclesiastical or governmental authority) to be conducted through English (or English and latin).

If the Gaelscoileanna are underpopulated, it's because people hate Irish, but if they are overpopulated it's because parents are racist, not because people love Irish.

If Irish speakers don't speak Irish in public, it's because they don't exist, if they do they're trying to prevent foreigners from hearing them, or are purposely being rude.

If there is no employment in Irish, it's because Irish is a useless language not worth learning, if there is, it's because Irish speakers are selfishly wanting government money for themselves.

If Irish has more borrowings than English, it's because Irish is an inferior language with a limited vocabularly, if it has less, it's because Irish isn't as open to borrowings or as international as English.

If a person is good at Irish, it's because of their own personal ability and natural flare for languages, if a person is bad at Irish it's because of the teacher.

Needless to say, this list is hardly exaustive, has anyone got a few more examples?

Hookah · 07-04-2011 07:05PM

Aimsigh wrote: »

Needless to say, this list is hardly exaustive, has anyone got a few more examples?

It's useless in today's world?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-04-2011 07:06PM

... if someone says they don't think Irish should be compulsory for the leaving cert, they are automatically anti-Irish and are tyring to kill off the language.

cml387 · 07-04-2011 07:06PM

If God had wanted us to speak Irish he wouldn't have invented Peig.

super_furry · 07-04-2011 07:10PM

cml387 wrote: »

If God had wanted us to speak Irish he wouldn't have invented Peig.

Or the Brits.

LEG IT!

Kettle316 · 07-04-2011 07:12PM

@Hookah just smashed your entire argument OP!!

At least learning French, German or Spanish opens up new doors for you later in life!!

Learning Irish in school is a pain in the arse that doesnt benefit your later life in any way!!

chin_grin · 07-04-2011 07:14PM

Kettle316 wrote: »

@Hookah just smashed your entire argument OP!!

At least learning French, German or Spanish opens up new doors for you later in life!!

Learning Irish in school is a pain in the arse that doesnt benefit your later life in any way!!

...............you forgot to mention Mandarin.

mehfesto · 07-04-2011 07:15PM

Ah, I remember the time I was in Austria at a Restaurant and the waiter spoke no English. She tried her best, god bless 'er.

'Deutsch?' She asked. I shook my head.
'Espanyol?' No joy.
'Francais', 'Fraid not.

She pointed to Russia on the map in a last ditch attempt, then gave up. All her language were no use to me.

'Gaeilge?' I enquired.

ride-the-spiral · 07-04-2011 07:17PM

And if the pro-Irish camp is to be believed then Irish is a living language which is used everyday all over the world, yet making it optional for the leaving certificate will be killing it.

chin_grin · 07-04-2011 07:19PM

mehfesto wrote: »

'Gaeilge?' I enquired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSRildGCw64

weldoninhio · 07-04-2011 07:20PM

Aimsigh wrote: »

I have seen some amazing feets of Logical dexterity when it comes to arguing against Irish, If the language's detractors are to be believed Irish is a Dead peasent language with loads of made up words, that is too purist to borrow words from other languages, that everyone hates and is spoken by elitists who only send their kids to Gaelscoils for racist reasons.

If rich people don't speak Irish it's a peasant language, if they do its a snob language.

When students are mandated merely to sit in an Irish class for two hours a week by their school to receive a capitation grant, Irish is being forced upon them, yet people chose to speak English out of their own free will, this despite all education, administration, legislation, commerce and even religion having been mandated (by ecclesiastical or governmental authority) to be conducted through English (or English and latin).

If the Gaelscoileanna are underpopulated, it's because people hate Irish, but if they are overpopulated it's because parents are racist, not because people love Irish.

If Irish speakers don't speak Irish in public, it's because they don't exist, if they do they're trying to prevent foreigners from hearing them, or are purposely being rude.

If there is no employment in Irish, it's because Irish is a useless language not worth learning, if there is, it's because Irish speakers are selfishly wanting government money for themselves.

If Irish has more borrowings than English, it's because Irish is an inferior language with a limited vocabularly, if it has less, it's because Irish isn't as open to borrowings or as international as English.

If a person is good at Irish, it's because of their own personal ability and natural flare for languages, if a person is bad at Irish it's because of the teacher.

Needless to say, this list is hardly exaustive, has anyone got a few more examples?

If someone makes up a thread about languages, then uses the incorrect spelling on his 6th word, its a fail!

fkt · 07-04-2011 07:26PM

It is a complete disgrace that we waste so much valuable learning time for the next generation on this.

The Chinese have to learn English, we have to learn Irish.

Sums up the embarrassing state of this country.

cml387 · 07-04-2011 07:28PM

We were supposed to add more posts supporting the OP's argument.I feel such a fool now.

Aimsigh · 07-04-2011 07:30PM

Kettle316 wrote: »

@Hookah just smashed your entire argument OP!!

At least learning French, German or Spanish opens up new doors for you later in life!!

Learning Irish in school is a pain in the arse that doesnt benefit your later life in any way!!

Tell that to the thousands of people who earn their Living through the Irish Language:rolleyes:

karma_ · 07-04-2011 07:33PM

fkt wrote: »

It is a complete disgrace that we waste so much valuable learning time for the next generation on this.

The Chinese have to learn English, we have to learn Irish.

Sums up the embarrassing state of this country.

I realise this is AH, still though, this is a hell of a leap.

cml387 · 07-04-2011 07:33PM

Aimsigh wrote: »

Tell that to the thousands of people who earn their Living through the Irish Language:rolleyes:

I think you mean the state subsidised Irish language industry,civil servants pointlessly translating documents etc. etc.

Aimsigh · 07-04-2011 07:34PM

karma_ wrote: »

I realise this is AH, still though, this is a hell of a leap.

I refer you to the OP.:D

PeterIanStaker · 07-04-2011 07:35PM

The OP has been arrested on charges of treason, and has been taken away for interrogation, and his fingernails are being pulled out as we speak.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Colonel K Myers, KGB VC WAN KR, Viceroy, Governor-General & Inquisitor-in-Chief.

fkt · 07-04-2011 07:36PM

Aimsigh wrote: »

Tell that to the thousands of people who earn their Living through the Irish Language:rolleyes:

Teachers. But thats all it benefits, and that brings no benefit to society. You might aswell employ a teacher to teach students how to w*nk for a half an hour every day, and then send them through three years education so those students can go and teach it all over again. It's an endless circle which wastes time and money.

Pherekydes · 07-04-2011 07:37PM

fkt wrote: »

It is a complete disgrace that we waste so much valuable learning time for the next generation on this.

The Chinese have to learn English, we have to learn Irish.

Sums up the embarrassing state of this country.

Compare like with like.

The Chinese must learn their own language, plus English.

We learn our own language, plus English, so what's the big difficulty?

As for the argument that Irish is useless on the world stage, so's Finnish, or Norwegian. No one else in the world speaks either of these languages, yet they conduct all of their day-to-day business through their own languages and yet they manage just fine on the world stage. This gives them their own national identity, something which we are losing bit by bit. How many times have you been mistaken for English while on holiday abroad?

"Oh, no, I'm not English. I'm Irish!"

karma_ · 07-04-2011 07:38PM

fkt wrote: »

Teachers. But thats all it benefits, and that brings no benefit to society. You might aswell employ a teacher to teach students how to w*nk for a half an hour every day, and then send them through three years education so those students can go and teach it all over again. It's an endless circle which wastes time and money.

You should get a job at the Daily Mail.

Pace2008 · 07-04-2011 07:41PM

This is stroked straight from politics.ie, complete with persistent, bizarre misspellings.

fkt · 07-04-2011 07:42PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Compare like with like.

The Chinese must learn their own language, plus English.

We learn our own language, plus English, so what's the big difficulty?

As for the argument that Irish is useless on the world stage, so's Finnish, or Norwegian. No one else in the world speaks either of these languages, yet they conduct all of their day-to-day business through their own languages and yet they manage just fine on the world stage. This gives them their own national identity, something which we are losing bit by bit. How many times have you been mistaken for English while on holiday abroad?

"Oh, no, I'm not English. I'm Irish!"

Irish isn't our language though.

Irish learn English because we use it every day. We should have another one compulsory that benefits us on the world stage.

The Finnish and Norweigans use Finnish and Norweigan, and probably another that benefits them on the world stage.

The thing is, the pro-Irish people know their wrong. They're just embarrassed to admit it because once they start arguing their point, they feel they have to continue

Hookah · 07-04-2011 07:43PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

This is stroked straight from politics.ie, complete with persistent, bizarre misspellings.

Pla-gaeilge-iarism?

Aimsigh · 07-04-2011 07:43PM

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

The OP has been arrested on charges of treason, and has been taken away for interrogation, and his fingernails are being pulled out as we speak.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Colonel K Myers, KGB VC WAN KR, Viceroy, Governor-General & Inquisitor-in-Chief.

TOKENISM!!! Seize Him!

mickoneill30 · 07-04-2011 07:44PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Compare like with like.

....
yet they conduct all of their day-to-day business through their own languages and yet they manage just fine on the world stage.

That's not comparing like with like. I left secondary 20 years ago. I haven't conducted one bit of business in Irish in Ireland since.
Having it forced on me made me resent it though.

I'm not embarrassed not being able to speak it though. What is embarrassing is travelling around Europe and having people having to speak to me in my native language because the languages I knew best were English & Irish.

fkt · 07-04-2011 07:45PM

karma_ wrote: »

You should get a job at the Daily Mail.

Am I wrong?

karma_ · 07-04-2011 07:49PM

fkt wrote: »

Irish isn't our language though.

Irish learn English because we use it every day. We should have another one compulsory that benefits us on the world stage.

The Finnish and Norweigans use Finnish and Norweigan, and probably another that benefits them on the world stage.

The thing is, the pro-Irish people know their wrong. They're just embarrassed to admit it because once they start arguing their point, they feel they have to continue

Because you don't use it does not mean others on the island do not.

The fact is, that research has proven that learning a second language at an early age improves your ability to learn further languages.

The old argument about having Irish forced down your throat is just that, old, even though most schools in Ireland learn French right up to 3rd year and most offer German, how many Irish people speak French or German? Still though, lets blame the teaching of Irish for the failure.

karma_ · 07-04-2011 07:50PM

fkt wrote: »

Am I wrong?

Completely, utterly, totally, unequivocally wrong.

Pace2008 · 07-04-2011 07:52PM

karma_ wrote: »

Because you don't use it does not mean others on the island do not.

The fact is, that research has proven that learning a second language at an early age improves your ability to learn further languages.

Does the second language have to be Irish to confer you with this advantage?

fkt · 07-04-2011 07:52PM

karma_ wrote: »

Because you don't use it does not mean others on the island do not.

The fact is, that research has proven that learning a second language at an early age improves your ability to learn further languages.

The old argument about having Irish forced down your throat is just that, old, even though most schools in Ireland learn French right up to 3rd year and most offer German, how many Irish people speak French or German? Still though, lets blame the teaching of Irish for the failure.

You accept I don't use it, so why should it be compulsory?

Irish and its detractors.

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