The Death Agony of Capitalism

hoorsmelt · 07-04-2011 02:01PM #1

The US is going to run out of money tomorrow, and there may be a default by the US on debt owed by the middle of next month. The time has come for a new economic system based on communities, local production, and common ownership.

http://politifi.com/news/Turbo-Timmy-Says-US-Will-Run-Out-of-Money-Unless-Debt-Limit-is-Increased-by-May-16-1861820.html

Lu Tze · 07-04-2011 02:04PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

The US is going to run out of money tomorrow, and there may be a default by the US on debt owed by the middle of next month. The time has come for a new economic system based on communities, local production, and common ownership.

http://politifi.com/news/Turbo-Timmy-Says-US-Will-Run-Out-of-Money-Unless-Debt-Limit-is-Increased-by-May-16-1861820.html

Well if turbo timmy says it it must be true!

Finnbar01 · 07-04-2011 02:07PM

Hopefully the special interests will get it in the neck.

Adamantium · 07-04-2011 02:07PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

The US is going to run out of money tomorrow, and there may be a default by the US on debt owed by the middle of next month. The time has come for a new economic system based on communities, local production, and common ownership.

http://politifi.com/news/Turbo-Timmy-Says-US-Will-Run-Out-of-Money-Unless-Debt-Limit-is-Increased-by-May-16-1861820.html

they'll just print more make believe money ftm that doesn't actually exist in gold weight or borrow it from china...thus digging a deeper hole

societies will never adopt a debt free money system...cos that would make too much sense!

Cookie_Monster · 07-04-2011 02:08PM

the us ran out of money decades ago, they owe 14 trillion...
tomorrow they will owe slightly more that's all...

Sergeant · 07-04-2011 02:12PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

The time has come for a new economic system based on communities, local production, and common ownership.

Stalinism? Worked a treat the last time it was tried.

mickydoomsux · 07-04-2011 02:13PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

The US is going to run out of money tomorrow, and there may be a default by the US on debt owed by the middle of next month. The time has come for a new economic system based on communities, local production, and common ownership.

http://politifi.com/news/Turbo-Timmy-Says-US-Will-Run-Out-of-Money-Unless-Debt-Limit-is-Increased-by-May-16-1861820.html

Ugh, more socialist rubbish.

Local production? Sure, i'll get the lad down the road to build me a car and grow me some pineapples.

hoorsmelt · 07-04-2011 02:14PM

Sergeant wrote: »

Stalinism? Worked a treat the last time it was tried.

:rolleyes: Gob****e. Stalinism was based on centralised planning and coercion. This new system will have to be based on community and local production for local consumption.

hoorsmelt · 07-04-2011 02:16PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Ugh, more socialist rubbish.

Local production? Sure, i'll get the lad down the road to build me a car and grow me some pineapples.

Enjoy what's coming. Food prices are rocketing, as are all other commodities, and we need to be more self sufficient. Globalised capitalism is not a sustainable system, and it's time is limited.

Sergeant · 07-04-2011 02:16PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

:rolleyes: Gob****e. Stalinism was based on centralised planning and coercion. This new system will have to be based on community and local production for local consumption.

And if one local community doesn't have a commodity it requires, will it be able to trade with another community? Using money, or would it be some type of bartering system? Can you flesh out your proposals?

Companero · 07-04-2011 02:17PM

idea than Capitalism for running the world, I would genuinely love to hear it, but I am strongly sceptical that you do.

Vague statements like "The time has come for a new economic system based on communities, local production, and common ownership" will not cut it either.

If you've got a better idea it's gonna need to be really detailed, really complicated and have all sorts of built in checks and balances to stop it becoming totalitarian. It is the kind of thing that would require centuries or patient study and thought, and would probably require several wings of a library to explain itself properly.

The reason the left has failed so spectacularly since the 1960's has been its refusal to acknowledge the immense complexity of the world, and thus the immense complexity of the system needed to replace Capitalism. It seems to have been though sufficient to say "Capitalism's ****, It'll Collapse on Its Own, and we'll all start automatically being groovy to one another."

If you want to replace Capitalism with something better: Which Im all in favour of, you're going to have to put on a suit, get a degree in economics, law, finance, history and sociology and stay up very, very late and have a good , hard think. Good luck.

mickydoomsux · 07-04-2011 02:18PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

:rolleyes: Gob****e. Stalinism was based on centralised planning and coercion. This new system will have to be based on community and local production for local consumption.

Oil. End of that idea.

Also, we have an increasingly export based economy. Guess we should stop all that and only produce what's needed here?

Pauleta · 07-04-2011 02:18PM

Left wing loons are looney

pragmatic1 · 07-04-2011 02:21PM

Capitalism will eventually run its course but it wont be replaced by communism either.

problemchimp · 07-04-2011 02:24PM

Pauleta wrote: »

Left wing loons are looney

Oh here we go again!!!!!!!!!

Monty Burnz · 07-04-2011 02:25PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

:rolleyes: Gob****e. Stalinism was based on centralised planning and coercion. This new system will have to be based on community and local production for local consumption.

Oh right. So like what used to happen before the invention of international trade? Marvellous.

Of course, capitalism has been on its deathbed for a hundred years at least. I'll start to get worried when people stop announcing it.

Fratton Fred · 07-04-2011 02:25PM

So when we've all paid off our huge negative equity, we should sell the house, build a hut in the middle of a small field and live off potatoes and cabbage.

That sounds like progress alright.

_Cato_ · 07-04-2011 02:26PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

:rolleyes: Gob****e. Stalinism was based on centralised planning and coercion. This new system will have to be based on community and local production for local consumption.

I've a better idea - how about you give people the freedom to choose.

07-04-2011 02:26PM

Lu Tze wrote: »

Well if turbo timmy says it it must be true!

If it's on the internet it must be true!!

07-04-2011 02:26PM

I thought the Worgl experiment with currency was a good idea, but 'local production only'? I don't think so - the lads down the road aren't going to build our ipods :pac:

Monty Burnz · 07-04-2011 02:27PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I thought the Worgl experiment with currency was a good idea, but 'local production only'? I don't think so - the lads down the road aren't going to build our ipods :pac:

They will if they can knit them out of wool and potatoes.

Fremen · 07-04-2011 02:34PM

hoorsmelt wrote: »

The time has come for a new economic system based on communities, local production, and common ownership.

Communities don't scale well beyond a few hundred people. After that, the tragedy of the commons kicks in.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup · 07-04-2011 02:37PM

_Cato_ wrote: »

I've a better idea - how about you give people the freedom to choose.

relevant username is relevant

ejmaztec · 07-04-2011 02:39PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So when we've all paid off our huge negative equity, we should sell the house, build a hut in the middle of a small field and live off potatoes and cabbage.

That sounds like progress alright.

That's a blight idea.

karma_ · 07-04-2011 03:16PM

Damn, I think the OP is talking about co-operative schemes, which have been going on in Ireland for many years and will probably become more popular again, how the fúck it got equated to Stalinism within a page is crazy. In fairness, when I see who made such posts it's no great surprise the usual suspects are involved.

Sergeant · 07-04-2011 03:21PM

karma_ wrote: »

Damn, I think the OP is talking about co-operative schemes, which have been going on in Ireland for many years and will probably become more popular again, how the fúck it got equated to Stalinism within a page is crazy. In fairness, when I see who made such posts it's no great surprise the usual suspects are involved.

Co-operatives are fine, they work well in certain industries, but to say they will replace Capitalism and a global economy is politically naive at best, sheer stupidity at worst.

Fremen · 07-04-2011 03:23PM

karma_ wrote: »

Damn, I think the OP is talking about co-operative schemes, which have been going on in Ireland for many years and will probably become more popular again, how the fúck it got equated to Stalinism within a page is crazy. In fairness, when I see who made such posts it's no great surprise the usual suspects are involved.

The title "The death agony of capitalism" stinks of the typical student Marxist. Slogans, rhetoric and no practical ideas.

Monty Burnz · 07-04-2011 03:24PM

karma_ wrote: »

Damn, I think the OP is talking about co-operative schemes, which have been going on in Ireland for many years and will probably become more popular again, how the fúck it got equated to Stalinism within a page is crazy. In fairness, when I see who made such posts it's no great surprise the usual suspects are involved.

The OP was a bit thin on detail. Perhaps he might elaborate on this new system that will set us free, now that capitalism is 'on its knees' (as usual). As I recall it was on its knees in the time of Karl Marx too.

I'd be more inclined to subscribe to Schumpeter's idea of creative destruction than that of Marx.

karma_ · 07-04-2011 03:33PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The OP was a bit thin on detail. Perhaps he might elaborate on this new system that will set us free, now that capitalism is 'on its knees' (as usual). As I recall it was on its knees in the time of Karl Marx too.

I'd be more inclined to subscribe to Schumpeter's idea of creative destruction than that of Marx.

It's not the system that sets us free.

Monty Burnz · 07-04-2011 03:38PM

karma_ wrote: »

It's not the system that sets us free.

Maybe not, but systems can certainly enslave us. Ask the folks who lived under communist/socialist rule in Eastern Europe for confirmation.

robd · 07-04-2011 03:39PM

The problem with this thread is the title. Once you mention the world "Capitalism" then it turns into a Capitalism vs Socialism debate.

The problem being reported, and it's been talked about more and more, is that the current money supply system is broken. That's not to say that Capitalism is broken, just that the current system whereby the US in particular spends about 1 trillion more than it earns each quarter is not sustainable.

The current debt backed money supply system only came into existence in the US in 1971. It was brought in due to rocketing inflation as a result of spending on the Vietnam War. The US has in recent times been involved in Afghanistan Iraq, and now Libya. Throughout history most wars have cause massive inflation. Surprise surprise inflation is showing signs of going though the roof. Of course inflation has been under-reported in the US for at least the last decade due to changes to calculation methods.

If the Chinese decide to stop buying or even curtail buying Treasury Bonds, the US is in deep deep trouble. Interesting to see China giving out about the US's participation in Libya and then a week later an announcement about reduced participation by US in Libya. China is desperately trying to protect it's investment. It's doesn't want inflation in US as it would seriously deflate the value of it's monstrous holding of Treasury bonds.

So in the end it comes down to trust. The exponential increase in US money supply is a bubble the same as every other bubble in history and it has to burst at some stage. Eventually the market loses faith. What happened in Ireland in terms of the market losing faith and massively pushing up the price of bonds to >10% can and will likely happen in the US. It's just a matter of time.

Then the US needs to default and invent some new money supply system. It will still be capitalism or whatever you want to call it just in a different form. Interesting times !!!

The Death Agony of Capitalism

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