Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

MagicSean · 07-04-2011 09:04AM

Birdnuts wrote: »

There serious allegations - I doubt he'd put himself at risk of being sued by a named Garda without firm evidence

The man has been protesting for five years. I doubt he has much to be sued for. He hasn't named the Garda in public has he?

Iwannahurl · 07-04-2011 09:08AM

Odysseus wrote: »

But the thing is it is not causing me any upset, and that seems to be true for lots of other posters here, as well as other professionals I know who deal with the people who experienced sexual violent. So not everybody is "upset" by this event.

Now this point cannot apply to posters here, as I do not know any posters personally. However, I have heard lots of people speak about this incident today but I have not heard one person who has worked with people who have experienced sexual violence express outrage or think that this is indicative of how AGS view rape. It certainly does not affect my belief about AGS's ability to deal with people who have experienced sexual violence to do so in a professional manner.

As I said in a earlier poster I have experienced numerous reasons from patients as to why they would not report a rape to AGS, now I will only deal with a small amount of rape cases over the next year [when compared to the total number of rapes in my area], however, I would be very surprised if this tape was put to me a reason. Now none of us can see the future, but during the next year I will see clients who have been raped, but I would say the amount that won't report because of this incident will be zero.

This is AH -- posters here are a self-selecting sample and are not representative of the general public (or of any relevant sub-group either). No reliable or applicable conclusions can be drawn from the discussion in this forum.

You have no way of knowing the potential effect on actual victims of rape or sexual assault, in terms of their willingness to report. Your 'zero effect' assertion is pure speculation.

In any case, the Garda themselves disagree with you, and with every other poster on Boards who would like to dismiss this as trivial or vexatious.

Three Garda associations have sought to distance themselves from such behaviour.

Birdnuts · 07-04-2011 09:12AM

k_mac wrote: »

The man has been protesting for five years. I doubt he has much to be sued for. He hasn't named the Garda in public has he?

How do you know?? - if a complaint was made to a state body he obviously had to indentify who the complaint was made against. He also complained to the acting Super at the time so there must be a record of it there too!!

MagicSean · 07-04-2011 09:15AM

Birdnuts wrote: »

How do you know?? - if a complaint was made to a state body he obviously had to indentify who the complaint was made against. He also complained to the acting Super at the time so there must be a record of it there too!!

That kind of publication doesn't necessarily allow for a civil action if you read the defamation act. There is also a thread in legal about it from a while back.

04KY · 07-04-2011 09:33AM

k_mac wrote: »

That kind of publication doesn't necessarily allow for a civil action if you read the defamation act. There is also a thread in legal about it from a while back.

k_mac, don't even bother at this stage, this guy isn't logical.

When he is pointed out as being wrong or making unsubstantiated claims he will disregard the post as "BS" or "self-serving guff".

His aggressiveness towards those who do not agree with him reminds me of a certain relevant group of people.

Padkir · 07-04-2011 11:12AM

Birdnuts wrote: »

It serves to justify many of the complaints locals have about policing in the area. Further footage of other incidents are being highlighted today in the Daily Mail going on its front page as highlighted on the VB show last night

You see that's your first problem right there, reading that tripe!! I'd be a lot more inclined to read a reputable news report (Rte.ie, etc.), or listen to the appropriate tapes yourself, to form your own opinion!

Don't just take your opinions from a sensationalist anti-Garda journalist who is taking things out of context to stir sh1t!

CokaColumbo · 07-04-2011 11:23AM

This was blown out of all proportion and shouldn't have made national news. People need to stop being so thin skinned and realise that this, although crude, was nothing more than a bit of craic. We all have and all do say (and think) wildly outrageous things about people.

Phill Ewinn · 07-04-2011 11:25AM

Padkir wrote: »

You see that's your first problem right there, reading that tripe!! I'd be a lot more inclined to read a reputable news report (Rte.ie, etc.), or listen to the appropriate tapes yourself, to form your own opinion!

Don't just take your opinions from a sensationalist anti-Garda journalist who is taking things out of context to stir sh1t!

This is just beyond belief. Quoting RTE as a reputable news sourcre is laughable. Their completely bias coverage of the blanket guarantee and their unwaning support for the current FG/FF oligarchy is widely condemed by every level headed individual I've met recently. Serious fella if you want people to take your points seriously. I'd try and hide this love for RTE you have.

mconigol · 07-04-2011 11:34AM

It's a pity shell to sea campaigners aren't just as concerned about following the law of the land as some off the cuff comments made in a private conversation between some guards in the west of Ireland.

They shouldn't be there at all nor should the gardai. Complete waste of time and resources.

Padkir · 07-04-2011 12:03PM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

This is just beyond belief. Quoting RTE as a reputable news sourcre is laughable. Their completely bias coverage of the blanket guarantee and their unwaning support for the current FG/FF oligarchy is widely condemed by every level headed individual I've met recently. Serious fella if you want people to take your points seriously. I'd try and hide this love for RTE you have.

I'm not saying I agree with all of their opinions, and I agree that they are extremely politically biased. But in this matter, the report I have read from there is a lot closer to the truth (and I have watched the video/read the transcript, which a lot more people seem not to have done!) than any of the other sensationalist media outlets, such as the Daily Mail!

steddyeddy · 07-04-2011 12:42PM

Whatever your opinion this could be serious for the men in question

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20110406/tuk-rape-remarks-case-warning-from-gra-e1cd776.html

Iwannahurl · 07-04-2011 02:26PM

CokaColumbo wrote: »

This was blown out of all proportion and shouldn't have made national news. People need to stop being so thin skinned and realise that this, although crude, was nothing more than a bit of craic. We all have and all do say (and think) wildly outrageous things about people.

Three Garda associations disagree with you. And yet it's AGS officers who are in the dock of public opinion.

Odysseus · 07-04-2011 02:45PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

You have no way of knowing the potential effect on actual victims of rape or sexual assault, in terms of their willingness to report. Your 'zero effect' assertion is pure speculation.

Of course you are correct, as I stated none of use can see the future, and I also acknowledged that in relation to the amount of rapes that will occur over the next year, I will only see a sample of those people, within my own area. So there is nothing there that I have not said myself.

My guess, it may be based upon a fair bit of experience in the area, is still that that an educated guess. However, your point about drawing conclusions based upon this sample [AH] would also be applicable the other way, we cannot say for definite that it will stop people reporting sexual violence.

Both sexes fail to report sexual violence for many different reasons, and my point is that a lot of people have expressed opinions that this tape will effect the reporting of sexual violence. I'm in a position where I have experience in that particular area, [I would not however consider myself an expert on the matter] and I'm merely expressing my opinion based upon that experience. I'm just having a quick break before my next client who has experienced sexual violence as a child and an adult.

However, I still stand over my original statement, I would be very surprised if I encounter a person within the next year who fails to report such an incident based upon the content of this tape. However, I could be wrong; I'll have to wait a year to see

CokaColumbo · 07-04-2011 02:56PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Three Garda associations disagree with you. And yet it's AGS officers who are in the dock of public opinion.

Three Garda associations disagree with me because that is what is expected of them. The point is that the politically correct culture in the West has meant that crude, offensive but harmless comments which are made in private are seized upon and thrown into the public, national arena where a debate arises as to whether or not they are symptomatic of deeper societal issues. Why this story has been featured at such a high level is beyond me.

Political correctness has meant that things which everybody jokes about privately and thinks in their minds can never be uttered in public because everyone is too thin-skinned (unless you are a white male that is) to tolerate them.

PeakOutput · 07-04-2011 03:04PM

the reason public figures grab onto stuff like this and make it a big deal is because the reasonable people who can see that its not a big deal dont care what they say about it either way

its the fringe element who kick up a big stink that they keep happy by making their big overblown statements

conordeman · 07-04-2011 03:23PM

Is what was said appropriate?......Of course not.
Was it a credible threat?.............No.
Should they be punished?............Yes.
Should they be executed?............No.

I reckon the persons involved should be sent on some sort of awareness course presuming they are willing to enter into such an arrangement.
It is the attitudes that need to be corrected. I can assure you such conversations are carried on by all walks of life and by both sexes every day.
We have all heard jokes about starvation, abuse, murder and death and laughed heartily.
It was not appropriate. But lets not lose sight of the real problem. As a nation we are extremely quick to snigger and laugh when it suits us but then make scape goats of those who should know better but get caught. These men should be shown the eror of their ways and given the opportunity to make amends. THAT would be a far more positive and productive outcome than to simply hang, draw and quarter them.
Lastly, I am extremely uncomfortable with the fact that this was released to the media first (I presume for maximum effect) rather than reported to the Garda Ombudsman or Garda Management. Considering the subject matter and the furore caused by the remarks, I personally would have preferred a more appropriate avenue of investigation.

conordeman · 07-04-2011 03:33PM

Adan Shy Landlord wrote: »

If that was Brian Cowen or Ivor callaly joking about they would be lynched by now.

If Brian Cowen and Ivor CAllally haven't been lynched by now, nothing they EVER say will cause it to happen.

K-9 · 07-04-2011 04:00PM

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Three Garda associations disagree with me because that is what is expected of them. The point is that the politically correct culture in the West has meant that crude, offensive but harmless comments which are made in private are seized upon and thrown into the public, national arena where a debate arises as to whether or not they are symptomatic of deeper societal issues. Why this story has been featured at such a high level is beyond me.

Political correctness has meant that things which everybody jokes about privately and thinks in their minds can never be uttered in public because everyone is too thin-skinned (unless you are a white male that is) to tolerate them.

That doesn't mean there isn't any merit in what they say, white males or not!

The Waltzing Consumer · 07-04-2011 04:02PM

This has become even more of an embarrassment. Look at this:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-at-centre-of-corrib-tape-incident-demands-inquiry-500316.html

"Socialist TD Mr Higgins said the actions of the gardaí were like an occupying army against a civilian population in an occupied territory."

"Ms Sullivan and the Shell to Sea campaign have called for the Garda Ombudsman to widen its inquiry into the affair and for a separate independent probe headed up by international experts."

International experts for jokes? JOKES! :mad:
The absolute idiotic reactions to this is unreal.

These people are f**king idiots.

They made a stupid joke, they got caught, they will be dealt with by their own policies and procedures, end of story.

We laugh and look down on American nuts who seem more obsessed with school prayer and creativity yet here we have elected representatives going 100% over the top for....a joke. WTF is wrong with these guys?

Oh and yes Mr. Higgins, a few Gardai telling jokes for a few seconds, whilst talking about the safety of protesters for the rest of the time, are easily comparable with an occupying army. They are well known for their brutality, not physcially, but the brutality of telling jokes!!!!!!!! The vikings came, and told jokes and how the population suffered. The Nazis invaded and took over most of Europe with their arsenal of jokes!

F**king retards, the lot of them!

These guys scream "more of the same" at FG/LAB yet here they are, comparing the Gardai to occupying armies, demanding international experts to investigate that most heinous of international crime, the crap joke. Spend a few hundred thousand of the investigation, sure why not?

We all remember after WWII, the first thing they did was set up the war jokes tribunal, it was after all, the most important thing to make sure soldiers did not break the Geneva convention by telling a joke.

RETARDS

hatz7 · 07-04-2011 04:03PM

P.J. Stone, GRA; "If the gardai are found guilty of any wrongdoing it carries the gravest of consequences."

The three Guards: aha no traffic duty!

Their only crime was getting caught.

The amount of pious posting in this thread is brilliant, There are a lot more saints on this island than I knew about, and by some strange coincidence they all post on this thread.

KittyeeTrix · 07-04-2011 04:32PM

hatz7 wrote: »

P.J. Stone, GRA; "If the gardai are found guilty of any wrongdoing it carries the gravest of consequences."

The three Guards: aha no traffic duty!

Their only crime was getting caught.

The amount of pious posting in this thread is brilliant, There are a lot more saints on this island than I knew about, and by some strange coincidence they all post on this thread.

The same could probably be said about insensitive neanderthals;)

muppetkiller · 07-04-2011 05:04PM

Jerrie Ann Sullivan, a postgraduate student from Dublin, said alleged remarks inadvertently recorded on a video camera, believed to be of gardaí joking about raping them, had been deeply traumatic.

"The words used were horrifying and have caused deep distress," she said.

Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-at-centre-of-corrib-tape-incident-demands-inquiry-500316.html#ixzz1Iqz0lIAP

I could understand if she was witness to the events when they happened , but please .....I think it would be more like "When I heard them joke I thought...what complete d$%kheads" hardly traumatized.

muppetkiller · 07-04-2011 05:07PM

For the record my opinion is that it has been blown way out of proportion.
Have the Guard in question suspended (not sacked) and mentored on his conduct.
Then forget about it and get back to more important things like fixing this mess of a country.

randylonghorn · 07-04-2011 05:30PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

This has become even more of an embarrassment. Look at this:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-at-centre-of-corrib-tape-incident-demands-inquiry-500316.html

"Socialist TD Mr Higgins said the actions of the gardaí were like an occupying army against a civilian population in an occupied territory."

"Ms Sullivan and the Shell to Sea campaign have called for the Garda Ombudsman to widen its inquiry into the affair and for a separate independent probe headed up by international experts."

Both of those are completely OTT.

An occupying army my arse, tbh, if you'll excuse my language.

However, I can't help feeling that those who are going to the other extreme and trivialising this as "just a couple of young lads having a laugh, sure it doesn't matter, so what if they were Gardaí and on-duty!" are actually feeding into and in some ways lending (an invalid) justification to the hyperbole on the other extreme.

hatz7 · 07-04-2011 06:08PM

I can imagine, certain professions would use very dark humor during the course of their private conversations.
Doctors dealing with death,
Undertakers I'm sure have a good few funnies about death.
Solicitors dealing with the worst scum this country has to offer must have their own little in jokes.
Dare I say it Gardai?

But its not only professionals, its groups of people. Group dynamics.
I have said/heard terrible things and laughed.
I'm not sorry. If I got caught like those lads I would be, but for getting caught.

Groups of guys talk like that all the time. Why do these f*uckin liberals think that if we were just more educated we would somehow be 'better' people. F*ck them and f*ck y*u.

I seen one post that said the guards should be sent on a course!
A f*cking course, the liberal response to everything, holy be to god!
I nearly fell off the chair laughin, that'd be great craic. Beats going to work

The 'thought police' are well and truly making their presence felt on this thread.

Iwannahurl · 07-04-2011 06:32PM

hatz7 wrote: »

I can imagine, certain professions would use very dark humor during the course of their private conversations.
Doctors dealing with death,
Undertakers I'm sure have a good few funnies about death.
Solicitors dealing with the worst scum this country has to offer must have their own little in jokes.
Dare I say it Gardai?

But its not only professionals, its groups of people. Group dynamics.
I have said/heard terrible things and laughed.
I'm not sorry. If I got caught like those lads I would be, but for getting caught.

Groups of guys talk like that all the time. Why do these f*uckin liberals think that if we were just more educated we would somehow be 'better' people. F*ck them and f*ck y*u.

I seen one post that said the guards should be sent on a course!
A f*cking course, the liberal response to everything, holy be to god!
I nearly fell off the chair laughin, that'd be great craic. Beats going to work

The 'thought police' are well and truly making their presence felt on this thread.

Some people are beyond educating.*

And the Thoughtless Police are the ones enforcing the law in real life...

*Maybe it's a Limerick thing?

Daisy M · 07-04-2011 06:33PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ4_TZQTj3Y&feature=related
Have a look at this, I have seen it a couple of times and it never ceases to amaze. If this is the way gardai are willing to treat protestors on camera we can only imagine how much worse it would be if camera phones werent always on hand. It isnt enough to use force to get protestors out of the way they have to throw them over the verge and kick them on the way down shocking.

AckwelFoley · 07-04-2011 06:42PM

is mise astra wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ4_TZQTj3Y&feature=related
Have a look at this, I have seen it a couple of times and it never ceases to amaze. If this is the way gardai are willing to treat protestors on camera we can only imagine how much worse it would be if camera phones werent always on hand. It isnt enough to use force to get protestors out of the way they have to throw them over the verge and kick them on the way down shocking.

What do you want the garda to do? Stand and watch them mount the machinery?

If you protest properly, you dont get thrown over the ditch like that gent after 2min in the video.

If you get into my car, and refuse to get out, what are the garda expected to do?

hatz7 · 07-04-2011 06:45PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Some people are beyond educating.*

And the Thoughtless Police are the ones enforcing the law in real life...

*Maybe it's a Limerick thing?

no.

Daisy M · 07-04-2011 06:55PM

snyper wrote: »

What do you want the garda to do? Stand and watch them mount the machinery?

If you protest properly, you dont get thrown over the ditch like that gent after 2min in the video.

If you get into my car, and refuse to get out, what are the garda expected to do?

They are well capable of using restraint to stop people breaking the law, in all honesty throwing people over the side of the road where there is a deep drop and giving them a kick on there way is brute force. God help you if you believe that any gardai would bother using such force on real criminals, your deluded, get real those guys know who to pick on theres not a hope they would do this to someone capable of real retaliation, too scared.

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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