Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

mike kelly · 06-04-2011 10:20AM

these gardai should be sacked without any pension entitlements

drkpower · 06-04-2011 10:21AM

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Ya know what, I'm not one of those posters who can sit and pick through posts all day so here is my opinion on this

6 points but no answers to the questions I asked. Try again:

1. Is your position that it is ok to have a laugh about rape if you apologise afterwards?

2. Does it no longer bother you that the very professionals that a rape victim must initially deal with are those that are in some cases are able to banter and laugh around the issue of rape?

LostinKildare · 06-04-2011 10:34AM

drkpower wrote: »

Guards, in private, can make jokes about rape, or a dozen other crimes; yet, they can go straight out and sensitively & caringly deal with a victim of those crimes.

prinz wrote: »

There is no "balance". You have a positive experience with thousands of victims, and on the other side you have three gardaí acting the maggot on their own nowhere near a victim. Do you see how that comes nowhere close to being an imbalance?

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

And I have no doubt that were any woman to go to them having been raped they would act in a sensitive and professional manner.

And why are you so certain of that? In actual fact, the gardai have a pretty serious problem with how they deal with actual rape victims. Only 1 in 10 rapes in Ireland are reported, and of them:

A landmark report commissioned by the Rape Crisis Network in Ireland, published in 2009, detailed the importance of police contact.
Almost 40pc of those who reported their rape to gardai considered withdrawing it because of poor reaction from gardai.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/dearbhail-mcdonald-sex-crimes-are-not-a-laughing-matter-victims-deserve-better-2611122.html

What we see from this latest incident is that apparently some gardai think joking about raping a woman is funny; no doubt many more do not. If I were a traumatised rape victim I'd want to be sure I was dealing with one of the latter group -- a serious man who thinks rape is so grave that he wouldn't crack jokes about it, not some immature, snickering "lad."

K-9 · 06-04-2011 10:37AM

LostinKildare wrote: »

And why are you so certain of that? In actual fact, the gardai have a pretty serious problem with how they deal with actual rape victims. Only 1 in 10 rapes in Ireland are reported, and of them:

Apparently some gardai think joking about raping a woman is funny; no doubt many more do not. If I were a traumatised rape victim I'd want to be sure I was dealing with one of the latter group -- a serious man who thinks rape is so grave that he wouldn't crack jokes about it, not some immature, snickering "lad."

And the spokesperson for the Rape Crisis Network has commended the Guards in their efforts to tackle the issue and their huge improvement on it.

On the 1 in 10, I think you probably should look at wider issues than just Guards, the Listowel case would be a good starting point.

Out before the Public Service bashers take over.

prinz · 06-04-2011 10:42AM

LostinKildare wrote: »

And why are you so certain of that? In actual fact, the gardai have a pretty serious problem with how they deal with actual rape victims. Only 1 in 10 rapes in Ireland are reported, and of them

Yes it certainly is AGS's fault that 9 out of 10 don't come forward. Also you have no idea what constitutes "a poor reaction" from the gardaí. Is a garda saying 'sorry but we cannot guarantee a conviction' a poor reaction? ....chances are something along that line causes most of it tbh. Again nothing actually to do with members of AGS.

Bosco boy · 06-04-2011 10:44AM

What's the penalty for a tasteless joke? I just heard one! Anyone got the number of the Irish times?

drkpower · 06-04-2011 10:50AM

LostinKildare wrote: »

And why are you so certain of that? In actual fact, the gardai have a pretty serious problem with how they deal with actual rape victims. Only 1 in 10 rapes in Ireland are reported, and of them:

Not a very good point.

As others have said, there are many reasons why people do not report rape, from the conviction rate, to the perception that a rape trial is a pretty awful ordeal, to the simple fact that many many women do not want to 'report' rape to anyone, nevermind the authorities.

It is multifactorial.

Is one of those factors the juvenility of some Gardai? Probably
Is it one of the most significant factors? Almost certainly not.

desky · 06-04-2011 10:51AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

selfIn all honesty I think people are completely over-reacting to the comments made by the Gardai.

If people actually listened to the recording they would hear that the men involved are in fact laughing at what they're saying, so obsured is it. They in no way, in my opinion, are actually intending to rape anyone.

Was it an incredibly stupid thing to say....YES, no could deny that.

Was it done with malice or criminal intent or did they actually intend to do what they said......in my opinion NOT AT ALL.

Were they making light of rape......well yes but I don't honestly believe that was the intention.

Should they be punished....In fairness YES but certainly not the extend of losing their jobs or ending up in court etc.

As usual people are jumping on the self righteous the-gardai-are-ignorant-violent-scum bandwagon without actually looking at what is being presented to them.

See this for what it is.....a moment of stupidity but nothing more.

aaaahh! A voice of reason amongst all the 'down with that sort of thing' brigade.

Yes an incredibly stupid thing to say and I would wager that none of the participants truly take that attitude to rape. It is a very sensitive topic to those who have suffered this unspeakable and heinous crime. But this was infantile locker-room banter, college humour, call it what you like!

Do not condone in any way the comments etc but who here would like there private conversations with friends or colleagues played back to them in a recording. Surely there would be at least one instance where what you might have said would not paint you in a good light when transcribed word for word in a newspaper with a good risk of it being taken and read entirely out of context.

I am not generally a flag waver for the gardai. But I think they are being vilified unfairly. Yes, if they spoke those words with malice or intent that would be entirely unacceptable, they should be dragged through the media and be removed from the force immediately. But I am not convinced that they had such malice or intent in their minds when they spoke those words. They were stupid and should not have said what they said. But lets call a spade a spade here, they were very unlucky to have been recorded during that conversation!!

Maybe to make reparations they could donate all of their overtime (I heard it is astronomical) that they have earned this year to the Rape Crisis Centre.
(Unrelated thought - should Shell not pick up the tab for the cost of policing this debacle in Mayo?)

LostinKildare · 06-04-2011 10:51AM

K-9 wrote: »

And the spokesperson for the Rape Crisis Network has commended the Guards in their efforts to tackle the issue and their huge improvement on it.

Yes, so it's improving. But 40% is still pretty bad, don't you think? I'd say it's bad enough that it makes a mockery of posters' CERTAINTY about the exemplary way gardai deal with rape victims.

K-9 wrote: »

On the 1 in 10, I think you probably should look at wider issues than just Guards, the Listowel case would be a good starting point.

Indeed. But I don't believe you can discount the possibility that at least some of those victims might be dissuaded by how the gardai might treat them, especially when 40% of those who HAVE reported them have had bad experiences with the gardai.

prinz wrote: »

Yes it certainly is AGS's fault that 9 out of 10 don't come forward. Also you have no idea what constitutes "a poor reaction" from the gardaí. Is a garda saying 'sorry but we cannot guarantee a conviction' a poor reaction? ....chances are something along that line causes most of it tbh. Again nothing actually to do with members of AGS.

True, I do not know the details, and neither do you. I will try to find out. But to say that "poor reaction from the gardai" has "nothing to do with members of AGS" is absurd!

Happyman42 · 06-04-2011 10:55AM

Most serious crime possible = Murder
Next = Rape

You know that joke that Billy Connolly tells about the guy who kills his wife, then buries her so that her bum is sticking out of the ground and he has somewhere to park his bike? Ha ha ho ho.
If it was revealed that two Guards had told that joke in private, would you be a) afraid or b) have difficulty, reporting the murder of your mother to the local station? I don't think so.
These 'boys'; (foolish and immature maybe) will most likely lose their livelihoods and careers on an altar constructed by the 'holier than thou' brigade (an ever growing phenomenon of the 'liberating and democratic' Boards.ie and internet in general btw)
Would you tolerate your livelihood being in jeopardy every time you said something risqué? Grow the f*** up people!

stee.mc79 · 06-04-2011 10:55AM

drkpower wrote: »

6 points but no answers to the questions I asked. Try again:

1. Is your position that it is ok to have a laugh about rape if you apologise afterwards?

2. Does it no longer bother you that the very professionals that a rape victim must initially deal with are those that are in some cases are able to banter and laugh around the issue of rape?

My god because of the bad phrasing of a private conversation, do you think they should get the sack or they're any less able to deal with sensitive cases.
I do think they should appologise, this bable of sack em and burn them without looking at the whole story. Are you any less likely to go to the garda if your in trouble?

JP Liz V1 · 06-04-2011 10:59AM

Who the hell would joke about rape or even find it funny - the gardai were wrong

eilo1 · 06-04-2011 10:59AM

I think they should be sacked for being too stupid to turn a video camera off!
:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Oh and then to hand it back to the girls without double checking that they hadnt been recorded. Pure stupidity!:pac::pac:

prinz · 06-04-2011 11:01AM

LostinKildare wrote: »

And why are you so certain of that?

Some more from the Rape Crisis Network..

The most up to date research, Rape and Justice in Ireland (RAJI) 2009, showed that most survivors of rape have a positive experience of the Gardaí.

We can see from our National Statistics that survivors of sexual violence attending Rape Crisis Centres are choosing to report the crimes to the Gardaí in increasing numbers. The RCNI National Rape Crisis Statistics 2009 showed that 38.4% of survivors of adult sexual crimes, attending our services, reported to the Gardaí. This has been increasing year on year from a base of 18.2% in 2006.

_feedback_ · 06-04-2011 11:03AM

Surely, every person that is raped is not au-fait with all these statistics that are flying around? The vast majority of victims probably have no idea how many people report rape. They probably have no opinion on how the Gardai might react if they go in to report it.

It's not like somebody gets raped on a Tuesday evening and then goes off and does a bit of research and comes to the conclusion on Wednesday - "Jaysus, I'm not going to report it now".

It has to be up to each individual, no?

This kind of story however, embeds a bad image in potential victims minds, and is just sensationalist, irresponsible tabloidism and the editors in the newsrooms that ran with it first should not have run with it in the way they did.

In particular I thought Prime Time were disgusting last night, the way they portrayed the lady that was arrested as if she was a victim.

Information was put in to the wrong hands and was very badly dealt with.

The guards involved are only partially to blame for any impact this has on the reporting of rape in the future.

prinz · 06-04-2011 11:03AM

LostinKildare wrote: »

True, I do not know the details, and neither do you. I will try to find out. But to say that "poor reaction from the gardai" has "nothing to do with members of AGS" is absurd!

The gardaí cannot guarantee a victim a conviction. That's what I meant.

Don Juan DeMagoo · 06-04-2011 11:05AM

Professionalism people, professionalism.....
People are stating here that this is being over hyped, but where can we draw the line. Certain cops making a joke of rape about a person in their custody, to me down right unprofessional and deserves repercussions. There should be no debate, they were on duty and caught on tape, Jesus I wonder if some people want all credibility to be dismissed from every office.

No one is Garda bashing, but these muppets need to be publicly reprimanded and again an official apology given to the women concerned. Rape is not a joke, especially by those in our community that are meant to deal with this stuff.

In summation they were on duty, caught on tape, should be sanctioned and an apology given the women involved.

What is so flipping complicated about that...... Oh wait I forgot I was in Ireland

squod · 06-04-2011 11:16AM

Looks like it's gone international now. Every other facebook group started this week is covering it, protesting about it or whatever. Might as-well start laying off a lot more people in the tourism business.

Who the fuck is gonna want to come over here now?

Ash.J.Williams · 06-04-2011 11:18AM

Why anyone would hire young men to be guards is beyond me...

prinz · 06-04-2011 11:19AM

squod wrote: »

Looks like it's gone international now. Every other facebook group started this week is covering it, protesting about it or whatever. Might as-well start laying off a lot more people in the tourism business. Who the fuck is gonna want to come over here now?

Can't tell if you are being serious or taking the mick. I hope it's the latter.

My name is URL · 06-04-2011 11:20AM

squod wrote: »

Looks like it's gone international now. Every other facebook group started this week is covering it, protesting about it or whatever. Might as-well start laying off a lot more people in the tourism business.

Who the fuck is gonna want to come over here now?

Far worse happens within the ranks of other country's police forces. I still think AGS need to act fast in order to save face.

Look at this headline from the Belfast Telegraph

Garda rape probe: Young women tell of terror during arrest

Pretty fcuking irresponsible

AudreyHepburn · 06-04-2011 11:22AM

Don Juan DeMagoo wrote: »

Professionalism people, professionalism.....

People are stating here that this is being over hyped, but where can we draw the line. Certain cops making a joke of rape about a person in their custody, to me down right unprofessional and deserves repercussions. There should be no debate, they were on duty and caught on tape, Jesus I wonder if some people want all credibility to be dismissed from every office.

No one is Garda bashing, but these muppets need to be publicly reprimanded and again an official apology given to the women concerned. Rape is not a joke, especially by those in our community that are meant to deal with this stuff.

In summation they were on duty, caught on tape, should be sanctioned and an apology given the women involved.

What is so flipping complicated about that...... Oh wait I forgot I was in Ireland

:rolleyes: Sigh...this again.

Could you please, and I would really like you to do this for everyone's sake, quote or provide links to any post in which anyone defended these Gardai and said that they should go unpunished. Has anyone actually denied any of the things I've highlighted? If so provide us with links please.

Of course it was a stupid and inappropriate thing to say but it has been blown completely out of proportion. That does not mean it was right but to suggest they were actually preparing to go and rape those protesters and should lose their jobs, families etc is just over the top.

KittyeeTrix · 06-04-2011 11:24AM

I must say that the reporting of it has been downright terrible and sensationalised to the max!!!
Explains why some are acting a little hysterical in my opinion.......:(

sealgaire · 06-04-2011 11:26AM

This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the antics of the Gardaí involved in the Shell protests.

nosuprise · 06-04-2011 11:28AM

I think most people just feel disgust, as someone said last night, you would not hear that type of low class conversation anywhere, its obseen, i wont say especially from guards but in their position or if they had respect for their position, the word rape should not even be discussed not alone laughed about, very very sad,

KittyeeTrix · 06-04-2011 11:28AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

:rolleyes: Sigh...this again.

Could you please, and I would really like you to do this for everyone's sake, quote or provide links to any post in which anyone defended these Gardai and said that they should go unpunished. Has anyone actually denied any of the things I've highlighted? If so provide us with links please.

Of course it was a stupid and inappropriate thing to say but it has been blown completely out of proportion. That does not mean it was right but to suggest they were actually preparing to go and rape those protesters and should lose their jobs, families etc is just over the top.

In fairness to the poster you qouted he didn't suggest any of the boldened bits at all!!!

Poor Craythur · 06-04-2011 11:29AM

Whilst I don't agree that the Guards did was acceptable, I DO agree that the reporting of the incident has been hyperbolic and sensationalist and a bit embarrassing for the media outlets involved.

vampire of kilmainham · 06-04-2011 11:30AM

humanji wrote: »

It all depends on what was said. Was it two lads talking sh*te or two gardai planning on raping them? They're the two version that each side will tell.

But I can only assume the S2S crowd will release the full thing on the internet in an attempt to paint all gardai as monsters, though.

id say the gardai were just having a laugh among themselves c'mon now how many of us here have interacted with gardai we know or have chatted too in normal conversation sure there only human like the rest of us and yes naturally you will get some bastards on the force as well who give the rest of the garda a bad name sure ya get it in every job...

KittyeeTrix · 06-04-2011 11:31AM

Don Juan DeMagoo wrote: »

Professionalism people, professionalism.....
People are stating here that this is being over hyped, but where can we draw the line. Certain cops making a joke of rape about a person in their custody, to me down right unprofessional and deserves repercussions. There should be no debate, they were on duty and caught on tape, Jesus I wonder if some people want all credibility to be dismissed from every office.

No one is Garda bashing, but these muppets need to be publicly reprimanded and again an official apology given to the women concerned. Rape is not a joke, especially by those in our community that are meant to deal with this stuff.

In summation they were on duty, caught on tape, should be sanctioned and an apology given the women involved.

What is so flipping complicated about that...... Oh wait I forgot I was in Ireland

I'm just wondering Don Juan, what sanctions would you feel would be suitable????
I only ask as I feel the same way but am not sure what would be suitable:)

squod · 06-04-2011 11:32AM

prinz wrote: »

Can't tell if you are being serious or taking the mick. I hope it's the latter.

Take a look at the poll. Bear in mind that was conducted in AH. Imagine how the general population of this or any other country feel about this story. Feeling safe on the streets is a goal of any police force in an area which attracts tourists.

It's serious business.

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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