Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 10:32PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Susan McKay is on Primetime right now talking about Gardai laughing at rape victims behind their backs...this and the nonsense being spouted by the Rape Crisis Centre demean women and rape victims.

You're taking what she said out of context tbh. She said that it's probable that rape victims would be more likely to not report crimes for fear of being laughed at behind their backs or not taken seriously by some members of the Gardai.

You can try to justify it all you want.. Personally I don't even think it needs to be justified, they made some silly jibes at an unfortunate moment in time.

The jokes made aren't what's important, how AGS deal with it is. They could let it slip without taking any action but the next time there's controversy people will always throw up how it was ignored last time. I don't see how they can do anything other than reprimand the lads in question.

05-04-2011 10:32PM

galwegians wrote: »

bet you would be quick of the mark if cornered by a couple of scumbags,
you would be damn glad to see these two gaurds,
who knows you might even share in a joke with them after they sort out the problem for you.
get my drift.

yeah cos they guards are gonna be there when you get cornered by scumbags because that just happens ALL the time...you know, Guards actually doing their job!!! :eek::eek::eek::rolleyes:

Sean Bateman · 05-04-2011 10:33PM

RayM wrote: »

I didn't see it, but did she say that Gardai were laughing at rape victims? Or did she suggest that, as a result of this, people who have been raped might be less likely to report the crime, out of fear that the investigating Garda could be the type who would trivialise their ordeal and laugh behind their back?

She was saying that if rape victims think that the guards are laughing at them behind their backs, there's a problem. Talk about stating the obvious.

I don't see the link between making a relatively innocent joke about rape and then not giving a real victim the utmost care and attention.

2 stroke · 05-04-2011 10:33PM

gk5000 wrote: »

The guards are entitled to a private conversation same as everybody else.

Who can truthfully say they have never joked or gossiped in private what they would never utter in public. Get over this self righteous bs.

These comments were not made in private.

AudreyHepburn · 05-04-2011 10:34PM

selfIn all honesty I think people are completely over-reacting to the comments made by the Gardai.

If people actually listened to the recording they would hear that the men involved are in fact laughing at what they're saying, so obsured is it. They in no way, in my opinion, are actually intending to rape anyone.

Was it an incredibly stupid thing to say....YES, no could deny that.

Was it done with malice or criminal intent or did they actually intend to do what they said......in my opinion NOT AT ALL.

Were they making light of rape......well yes but I don't honestly believe that was the intention.

Should they be punished....In fairness YES but certainly not the extend of losing their jobs or ending up in court etc.

As usual people are jumping on the self righteous the-gardai-are-ignorant-violent-scum bandwagon without actually looking at what is being presented to them.

See this for what it is.....a moment of stupidity but nothing more.

The Waltzing Consumer · 05-04-2011 10:34PM

Starla_o0 wrote: »

all those who think this is a perfectly acceptable 'joke' are probably the same people who think girls who get completely locked and are incapable of consent haven't been raped, but were asking for it :rolleyes:

Yes definitely, I can see the link. :rolleyes:

Starla_o0 wrote: »

Cop the f*ck on. Just because you think it's funny, or because your sick friends joke about rape or whatever doesn't make it acceptable.

Imagine someone in your wife/girlfriend/mother/daughter/sister/niece's etc workplace joking about raping them. How would that make you feel? Would you think it was funny.

I would think "how the hell did I hear a private conversation?" After that I would demand that I could listen to someones private thoughts just in case those bastards were telling a joke silently!! Bastards!

Starla_o0 wrote: »

Rape is never funny. They are gurads and in a position of power. You'd all have a completely different attitude if it was a group of priests or teachers caught making these comments.

Being funny is subjective. Please stop being so over the top. The amount of hysterics on this thread is a JOKE. I have no interest in knowing the private conversations of people and punishing them because of their sense of humour. If their humour effects their duties, then I may be concerned, otherwise, no, I was not raised to be a fascist so I respect the idea of PRIVATE CONVERSATION and the idea of JOKES.

The Waltzing Consumer · 05-04-2011 10:36PM

2 stroke wrote: »

These comments were not made in private.

Yes they were.

Sean Bateman · 05-04-2011 10:36PM

Starla_o0 wrote: »

also the speed at which rape was thrown into the conversation. Like it's something they continuously joke about. If a male friend of mine ever said 'jokingly' "i'd like to rape her" I'd clatter him and never speak to him again.

It's sick and shows very little mental maturity

I have never heard someone say that.

But I've heard people tell jokes about rape and know that the same people would have the utmost sympathy for rape victims and the utmost contempt and hatred for rapists.

Watch a Frankie Boyle DVD...nothing is off limits...he tells jokes about Madeline McCann. That doesn't make him or those who laugh at him any less sympathetic to victims of terrible crimes.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 10:38PM

Starla_o0 wrote: »

also the speed at which rape was thrown into the conversation. Like it's something they continuously joke about. If a male friend of mine ever said 'jokingly' "i'd like to rape her" I'd clatter him and never speak to him again.

It's sick and shows very little mental maturity

If you can't be open an honest with your mates your better off without them.

2 stroke wrote: »

These comments were not made in private.

Yes they were.

gk5000 · 05-04-2011 10:39PM

Yes Private. They did not know they were being recorded.

He/she wiithout sin.....

KINGVictor · 05-04-2011 10:40PM

ScumLord wrote: »

No average citizen would face any kind of charges for making a joke about rape.

Good point but the in all honesty , the officers made serious errors of judgement and they should be held accountable for this especially when you consider the fact that their duty is to protect citizens from the very crime they were "joking" about.

What might seem to you as a joke is in fact an agonising reality to a lot of people/ families , and it becomes even more ridiculous when the authorities that are legally supposed to protect victims, investigate such crimes and enforce the law find it somewhat "funny".

How the affected officer/s will attempt to prosecute any rapist in future is simply beyond me at this stage...lets call a spade a spade ...it was major goof! and I still maintain that like any other person ( in authority), they have to be held accountable.

littlesthobo · 05-04-2011 10:42PM

Much ado about nothing. Conversation was in a private capacity, have seen worse stuff in after hours. Id be much more concerned about whether they can do their job properly and not worrying about their sense of humour, D'ont condone it though

Thought the prime time filming of yer wan was a disgrace the way it was done with the close up's of her hands to maximise effect. One should not lose track of who broke the law here

prinz · 05-04-2011 10:42PM

panda100 wrote: »

Because it speaks volumes about their attitude to rape and sexual assault...

Far from speaking volumes it says absolutely nothing about it.

Don Juan DeMagoo · 05-04-2011 10:44PM

It does not matter whether it was made in the form of a laugh or a joke among themselves. They are meant to act like professionals they have been caught on tape, repercussions must follow.

Sick to death of this endemic Irish mentality of "sure we are only taking the piss lads", throughout the entire system. From the leaders, to bankers, to senior civil servants, right on down to the lads on ground. No accountability whatsoever.

Cops making jests about rape???? Flipping cretins.

I do hope the Garda Commissioner has the decency to extend a formal apology to the women involved. But knowing this place they will charge them with disturbing the peace and hope it goes away.

Senna · 05-04-2011 10:44PM

If you went around and taped every person in a position of authority (while working) talking to friends, among other staff etc, every person would say something inappropriate once in a while.
This is just a storm in a tea cup that will probably result in a reprimand.

oceanclub · 05-04-2011 10:47PM

k_mac wrote: »

If you can't be open an honest with your mates your better off without them.

I often joke with my mates about raping their wives and mothers. They think it's hilarious. Especially when i mime it in the pub.

No, of course I don't, because I'm not a sick ****, nor are my friends. They're not exactly PC types, but I've never heard of any of them threatening rape as a gag. And never mind in a professional context - that is, someone in work saying it as a gag.

P.

AudreyHepburn · 05-04-2011 10:48PM

2 stroke wrote: »

These comments were not made in private.

Yes they were.

Will people please for all our sakes listen to/ read correctly happened.

The comments were made IN PRIVATE in the car between the two Gardai and the woman WAS NOT repeat NOT present at the time.

Please folks cop on a little.

Lady Chatterton · 05-04-2011 10:49PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Watch a Frankie Boyle DVD...nothing is off limits...he tells jokes about Madeline McCann. That doesn't make him or those who laugh at him any less sympathetic to victims of terrible crimes.

So is Frankie Boyle the yardstick you use to determine what is morally right or wrong? he also made some revolting jokes about Jordan's disabled child. He is seriously sick IMO. He can't have much talent when he has to ridicule defenseless people to make a living. Give me Tommy Tiernan any day.

Don Juan DeMagoo · 05-04-2011 10:52PM

Senna wrote: »

If you went around and taped every person in a position of authority (while working) talking to friends, among other staff etc, every person would say something inappropriate once in a while.
This is just a storm in a tea cup that will probably result in a reprimand.

Define reprimand?
Demotion if they are senior officers, temporary suspension? Or maybe sure you know what there lads, you all do paper work for the next couple of days until this storm in a tea cup blows over then it is back to the managing (wink) of protesters at the shell to sea thingamabob ??

Seems like a one horse race to me

04KY · 05-04-2011 10:52PM

MrsD007 wrote: »

So is Frankie Boyle the yardstick you use to determine what is morally right or wrong? he also made some revolving jokes about Jordan's disabled child. He is seriously sick IMO. He can't have much talent when he has to ridicule defenseless people to make a living. Give me Tommy Tiernan any day.

The Tommy Tiernan who has also told rape jokes?

RayM · 05-04-2011 10:54PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

She was saying that if rape victims think that the guards are laughing at them behind their backs, there's a problem. Talk about stating the obvious.

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to say. In your previous post, when you removed the context of what she was saying, it sounded quite absurd. I think it's understandable that a victim might (rightly or wrongly) fear that a male Garda might not take the crime seriously. And as rape is such an under-reported crime, surely every effort should be made by the Gardai to ensure that victims can completely trust them.

randylonghorn · 05-04-2011 10:54PM

Garda A: “Who is them two lassies, do you know the two of them?

Garda B: “I don’t know the second one, the first one is (name) with blonde hair.”

Unidentified garda: “She was up on the tractor earlier on.”

Garda A: “It’d do no harm to get the second one’s name again?

Garda B: “She’s some Yank. I don’t know who the f**k she is.”

Unidentified garda : “ Is she a Yank?

Garda B: “It sounds like it, it sounds like it, the accent anyway

Unidentified garda: “Sounds like a Yank or Canadian.”

Garda B: “Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration f**king on her.”

Garda A: “She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrested.”

Garda B : “.......and deported”

Garda A: “And raped.”

Garda B: “I wouldn’t go that far yet….. She was living down at that crusty camp, f**k sake, you never know what you might get.”

(Laughter)

Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”

(Laughter)

Unidentified garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

(Laughter)

Garda A : “Or I’ll definitely rape you.”

Quick question, folks ... if your sister / gf / mother was the victim of rape or sexual assault tomorrow, do you think reading the transcript of this conversation in the papers to-day would make her feel

(a) more, or
(b) less

comfortable to approach her local Garda station to report the offence?

If you're not sure of the answer, maybe actually ask them.

I hardly have the reputation of being the most prudish on these boards; in fact, I'm a smutty-minded bugger who enjoys blue jokes and double entendres as much as or more than the next person.

If the conversation had been along the lines of "Jaysus, yer one was a bit of all right, I wouldn't mind ...!" I'd be the first to call storm in a teacup (while accepting that some women would most likely find it offensive).

But read the last few lines again, and tell me these idiots are anything but Neanderthals who shame their uniform and indeed their gender.

Lady Chatterton · 05-04-2011 10:55PM

04KY wrote: »

The Tommy Tiernan who has also told rape jokes?

Last time I checked he wasn't a garda.

05-04-2011 10:58PM

so the consensus is it's all ok because they were having the craic and a bit of a laugh? Maybe AH is not the right place for this thread.

I just hope all of you who think this is funny never actually have to report a rape to similar guards who make jokes in private about rape. I'm sure their jokes wouldn't seem so funny then.

2 stroke · 05-04-2011 10:58PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yes they were.

Will people please for all our sakes listen to/ read correctly happened.

The comments were made IN PRIVATE in the car between the two Gardai and the woman WAS NOT repeat NOT present at the time.

Please folks cop on a little.

I do not accept that what an on duty Garda says about a prisoner, while that prisoner is in Garda custody, is private.

K-9 · 05-04-2011 10:58PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

selfIn all honesty I think people are completely over-reacting to the comments made by the Gardai.

If people actually listened to the recording they would hear that the men involved are in fact laughing at what they're saying, so obsured is it. They in no way, in my opinion, are actually intending to rape anyone.

Was it an incredibly stupid thing to say....YES, no could deny that.

Was it done with malice or criminal intent or did they actually intend to do what they said......in my opinion NOT AT ALL.

Were they making light of rape......well yes but I don't honestly believe that was the intention.

Should they be punished....In fairness YES but certainly not the extend of losing their jobs or ending up in court etc.

As usual people are jumping on the self righteous the-gardai-are-ignorant-violent-scum bandwagon without actually looking at what is being presented to them.

See this for what it is.....a moment of stupidity but nothing more.

There is over reacting and under reacting going on to be fair.

I don't think they should be sacked but I can see why a rape victim who has gone through the courts and guards might feel a bit crappy!

I've no doubt the particular guards would act professionally if it was a rape scenario.

AudreyHepburn · 05-04-2011 10:58PM

randylonghorn wrote: »

Quick question, folks ... if your sister / gf / mother was the victim of rape or sexual assault tomorrow, do you think reading the transcript of this conversation in the papers to-day would make her feel

(a) more, or
(b) less

comfortable to approach her local Garda station to report the offence?

If you're not sure of the answer, maybe actually ask them......

But read the last few lines again, and tell me these idiots are anything but Neanderthals who shame their uniform and indeed their gender.

Look no-one's defending them, far from it. No-one disagrees that they made a stupid mistake or that they should recieve some form of reprimand.

But honestly that's all it was, a stupid distasteful mistake.

But if you listen to the recording, and I strongly suggest you do, you'll hear not malice but two men making jokes, albeit distasteful ones.

Lady Chatterton · 05-04-2011 10:59PM

randylonghorn wrote: »

Quick question, folks ... if your sister / gf / mother was the victim of rape or sexual assault tomorrow, do you think reading the transcript of this conversation in the papers to-day would make her feel

(a) more, or
(b) less

comfortable to approach her local Garda station to report the offence?

If you're not sure of the answer, maybe actually ask them.

I hardly have the reputation of being the most prudish on these boards; in fact, I'm a smutty-minded bugger who enjoys blue jokes and double entendres as much as or more than the next person.

If the conversation had been along the lines of "Jaysus, yer one was a bit of all right, I wouldn't mind ...!" I'd be the first to call storm in a teacup (while accepting that some women would most likely find it offensive).

But read the last few lines again, and tell me these idiots are anything but Neanderthals who shame their uniform and indeed their gender.

I think this is the best post on the thread so far. I believe most women couldn't give a
sh1te if the Gardai had said "I'd love to give ........etc.". That is more typical of male banter but for a garda to say he would rape someone that is completely unacceptable.

AudreyHepburn · 05-04-2011 11:00PM

2 stroke wrote: »

I do not accept that what an on duty Garda says about a prisoner, while that prisoner is in Garda custody, is private.

It was said between two Gardai alone in their car with no-one else present including the women in question. It was never intented imo to go beyond that.

How do you define privacy if not that?

AudreyHepburn · 05-04-2011 11:03PM

K-9 wrote: »

There is over reacting and under reacting going on to be fair.

I don't think they should be sacked but I can see why a rape victim who has gone through the courts and guards might feel a bit crappy!

I've no doubt the particular guards would act professionally if it was a rape scenario.

Yes I agree there are elements of both and I hope it's clear I'm not in either camp.

I do think it was stupid and distasteful and there should be formal reprimand but some people are just being borderline hysterical about it.

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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