Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

prinz · 05-04-2011 09:13PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

How much faith would you have in them to do just that, if you walked into the station right as they were laughing it up about the previous victim?

That's nothing similar to this case though. That's quite a leap. Completely, totally, different scenario.

Paparazzo · 05-04-2011 09:14PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

How much faith would you have in them to do just that, if you walked into the station right as they were laughing it up about the previous victim?

Except none of that happened.

prinz · 05-04-2011 09:14PM

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Can someone tell me why AGS are being paid by the state to act as security for a private company surely shell could afford their own security.

They exist partly to protect private property and they keep public roads clear. Should we tel google to go swing too? Where is the cut-off? Do we want private security arresting people? What then? Private courts? Private prisons?

wyndhurst · 05-04-2011 09:15PM

My name is URL wrote: »

It doesn't have to be a crime in order for them to be held accountable. People can be reprimanded in their professional lives regardless of no crime taking place.

They shouldn't have said what they did, it's unfortunate they did and even more so that a it was caught on tape.. AGS would be doing themselves a disservice if no action was taken over this after the media shitstorm that has being borne out of it.

All this self-righteous pontificating is nauseating in the extreme. FFS it was banter (of extremely bad taste). Other than that it is a storm in a tea-cup.

Half the posts here have facts wrong, many others probably have not listened to the full tape to get the entire context. (Yes - I watched/listended to the entire 38mins).
Some people are even referring to the women as 'victims' as if some crime was committed against them. What a JOKE!

finty · 05-04-2011 09:15PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'm not saying that it actually would have been, or that submitting the evidence to the Ombudsman wouldn't have ultimately proven fruitful, just that if I was a protester who'd been on opposite lines to the Gardai a few times, I probably wouldn't have terrific faith in Them to give me a fair hearing.

Again, I don't like their behaviour in this regard, but I don't think it's necessarily as wholly spiteful as it might look.

The Ombudsman is completely independent of the gardai. It's designed that way to make sure these type of incidents are investigated properly.

It should have been reported to the ombudsman straight away, but that would have interfered with getting maximum publicity. The evening herald today has the headline "they talked of raping me" on the front page.

Of course they should be disciplined for what was inappropriate behaviour but how fair is that process now likely to be given all the fuss over it.

Half the posters on here still think they said it directly to the women involved for god sake!

galwayrush · 05-04-2011 09:16PM

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Can someone tell me why AGS are being paid by the state to act as security for a private company surely shell could afford their own security.

Because a bunch of people against the project think they can act against the law to try and stop it. Private security people are not law enforcers.

Ficheall · 05-04-2011 09:18PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

How much faith would you have in them to do just that, if you walked into the station right as they were laughing it up about the previous victim?

So.. I've been violently raped and left for dead and am walking into the station and am clear-headed and perceptive enough to establish that the Gardai on duty are laughing about the previous victim?
Well, I think in that case, I'd probably go find a taxi to take me to the hospital.
But what if I got into the cab and the driver made a comment about all them black fellas etc? Do I walk?
And even then, I can't be assured that when I get to the hospital that none of the staff will ever have made a joke about one of the patients...

Paparazzo · 05-04-2011 09:20PM

There is some good that could come of this. Indymedia might explode.

LETHAL LADY · 05-04-2011 09:21PM

prinz wrote: »

They exist partly to protect private property and they keep public roads clear. Should we tel google to go swing too? Where is the cut-off? Do we want private security arresting people? What then? Private courts? Private prisons?

Ok keep your hair on it was only a genuine question.

galwayrush · 05-04-2011 09:21PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

There is some good that could come of this. Indymedia might explode.

That could be worse than the Japanese nuclear reactors blowing....:pac:

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 09:27PM

elviscostello wrote: »

But why would they be? There's no evidence to suggest that they would ever laugh at a rape victim. They made a bad joke and got caught out.

A couple of folks have stated that this incident would not diminish their confidence in the guards to treat their (hypothetical) case seriously, but I'm curious as to how many jokes, and how extreme they'd have to be, before that faith would start to be eroded.

These things both exist on ends of the same spectrum, although the scenario I've suggested is veeeeeeeeeeeeery extreme. The Guards have a duty of care to both people in their custody and the people who come to them for help, and the attitude demonstrated towards the former in this case would not inspire confidence in me regarding the latter. Others have said it would make no difference to them whatsoever, but frankly I'd find that difficult to believe if we weren't in a debate about it.

I'm not trying to make this an XX versus XY issue, but I would be genuinely interested to poll how different male and female reactions to this are.

darrersbag · 05-04-2011 09:30PM

You would hear a lot worse at ten o'clock break on a building site (all six sites that are active around the country!!) Cannot believe these hippies are getting airtime. Total storm in a teacup!! More waste of taxpayer's money with investigations etc.

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 09:31PM

wyndhurst wrote: »

All this self-righteous pontificating is nauseating in the extreme. FFS it was banter (of extremely bad taste). Other than that it is a storm in a tea-cup.

Half the posts here have facts wrong, many others probably have not listened to the full tape to get the entire context. (Yes - I watched/listended to the entire 38mins).
Some people are even referring to the women as 'victims' as if some crime was committed against them. What a JOKE!

I watched it all too. I've already stated many times that I think it's a storm in a teacup.. they created the storm themselves though. The people who released the video obviously have their own motives and should not be seen as victimised in all of this. The media are the worst of the lot though for being so sensationalist about the whole thing.

Anyway, it all boils down to the comments the Gardai made, and if any action will be taken it will likely be against them. How is me stating the bleeding obvious pontificating?

dr.bollocko · 05-04-2011 09:34PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Mod: Don't post in this thread again.

KKV I must admit upon further reflection and some appropriate PMs I misread your post, appreciate your PMs and apologise for the above.

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 09:36PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

A couple of folks have stated that this incident would not diminish their confidence in the guards to treat their (hypothetical) case seriously, but I'm curious as to how many jokes, and how extreme they'd have to be, before that faith would start to be eroded.

These things both exist on ends of the same spectrum, although the scenario I've suggested is veeeeeeeeeeeeery extreme. The Guards have a duty of care to both people in their custody and the people who come to them for help, and the attitude demonstrated towards the former in this case would not inspire confidence in me regarding the latter. Others have said it would make no difference to them whatsoever, but frankly I'd find that difficult to believe if we weren't in a debate about it.

I'm not trying to make this an XX versus XY issue, but I would be genuinely interested to poll how different male and female reactions to this are.

But they upheld their duty of care to the two people arrested. They looked after them well and they were released without charge. They may have been the subject of a bad and inappropriate joke, but thats all it was.

I'm just not getting the whole thing about peoples confidence in how Gardai deal with rape changes because of a stupid joke.

But, I'm going round in circles, as I was just about to point the finger at the meeja and the way the protesters released the info again.

EDIT: Jesus, it's on Prime Time, and they are going to have an interview with one of them.

First clip "I was horrifed at the thoughts of the guards raping us".

Seriously, fúck off with that crap.

05-04-2011 09:37PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

KKV I must admit upon further reflection and some appropriate PMs I misread your post, appreciate your PMs and apologise for the above.

Not a problem at all, and thank you for the further consideration.

CatFromHue · 05-04-2011 09:37PM

it certainly shows the shell to sea guys in an even poorer light if you ask me.

the first i heard of this was on the news first thing this morning, aertel i think it was. the story was that some gardai had threatened to rape 2 protestors and that they had evidence that would be released later in the day.

turns out its something completely different and the shell to sea guys are using it as a tool to attack the gardai.

ultimately its three gardai in a car by themselves making a joke in poor taste. nothing more. just poor taste.

if someone recorded me in my car by myself there would be alot of loud flatulence followed by laughing, awful out of key singing, and random insults at motorbikers and their bad driving.

if someone recorded me in my car with my friends there would be alot of loud flatulence followed by laughing, random insults at motorbikers and their bad driving, and even a joke or two in bad taste!

common sense brigade · 05-04-2011 09:37PM

this is all blown out of proportion and was simply few people joking about. ireland has gone so pc its ridiculous. talk about 1984 and the thought police. going too PC is a dangerous way for a society to be heading

prinz · 05-04-2011 09:39PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

A couple of folks have stated that this incident would not diminish their confidence in the guards to treat their (hypothetical) case seriously, but I'm curious as to how many jokes, and how extreme they'd have to be, before that faith would start to be eroded.

If I walked in on gardaí discussing an actual case (victim, witnesses, suspects etc) where a member of the public can hear, and that person is easily identifiable (using names etc) then I would be píssed off. I'd take it up on the spot with the gardaí in question, and ask for superiors. If I wasn't reassured by that I'd complain to the ombudsman. Discussing them in private and being accidentally recorded is completely different.

2 stroke · 05-04-2011 09:39PM

I have not read this thread fully, but my feeling is that these Gardai, because they were on duty, in a position of authority, should be treated similarly to those that joke about bombs on aircraft or that use fake guns in a robery. Throw the book at them. Charge them with rape and put their names on the sex offenders list.

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 09:41PM

2 stroke wrote: »

I have not read this thread fully, but my feeling is that these Gardai, because they were on duty, in a position of authority, should be treated similarly to those that joke about bombs on aircraft or that use fake guns in a robery. Throw the book at them. Charge them with rape and put their names on the sex offenders list.

:eek: Thanks for the laugh

Dudess · 05-04-2011 09:41PM

Knuckledraggers - but appalling misrepresentation of the actual facts, and they don't deserve to be sacked or even disciplined for something they said in private (even if it was atrocious). However I don't see the need for such venom re the protestors either in order to be all no-nonsense and sock it to the hippies - sure, there are some jokers, but some of them passionately believe in this cause, and fair play to them for getting off their arses and doing something about it, instead of e.g. starting a thread on Boards whingeing about how "we" Irish never protest.

K-9 · 05-04-2011 09:43PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

A couple of folks have stated that this incident would not diminish their confidence in the guards to treat their (hypothetical) case seriously, but I'm curious as to how many jokes, and how extreme they'd have to be, before that faith would start to be eroded.

These things both exist on ends of the same spectrum, although the scenario I've suggested is veeeeeeeeeeeeery extreme. The Guards have a duty of care to both people in their custody and the people who come to them for help, and the attitude demonstrated towards the former in this case would not inspire confidence in me regarding the latter. Others have said it would make no difference to them whatsoever, but frankly I'd find that difficult to believe if we weren't in a debate about it.

I'm not trying to make this an XX versus XY issue, but I would be genuinely interested to poll how different male and female reactions to this are.

Funnily enough they do go on to mention their duty of care when removing the protesters, unlike what SoS say they just don't go in there as bully boys.

I'd read the transcript from the Times and it didn't seem that bad but after listening to the tapes, they sound very creepy, though I know they aren't being serious.

I suppose a victim of rape or somebody with experience of the issue may find it a bit sinister and I accept that, totally, they probably wouldn't be as objective.

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 09:46PM

The rest of the conversation on that stuff is actually a really interesting insight the very tricky issue of civil disorder control, and I don't have any beef with their take on that. The contrast is striking however.

Sean Bateman · 05-04-2011 09:47PM

This is a storm in a teacup.

It's organisations such as the Rape Crisis Centre that should be ashamed of themselves - They insult rape victims by hyping this up. Guys made a private joke among themselves and were recorded without their consent. The recording has been circulated without their consent.

These Shell to Sea merchants are wasters and were merely the butt of a joke.

I know plenty of people who tell jokes about rape, child molestors, Fred West, Hans Frietzl etc - They're just jokes. It doesn't mean that the person telling the joke is less likely to treat a victim appropriately.

K-9 · 05-04-2011 09:52PM

Rape Crisis Centre ashamed?

Tbh, I'm just thinking, there would be rape victims in Mayo who probably have dealt with these particular Guards and could identify them by accents. I'm sure they acted very professionally in those particular cases but previous rape victims might be a bit shocked.

It's hardly confidence inspiring now!

2 stroke · 05-04-2011 09:52PM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

This is a storm in a teacup.

It's organisations such as the Rape Crisis Centre that should be ashamed of themselves - They insult rape victims by hyping this up. Guys made a private joke among themselves and were recorded without their consent. The recording has been circulated without their consent.

These Shell to Sea merchants are wasters and were merely the butt of a joke.

I know plenty of people who tell jokes about rape, child molestors, Fred West, Hans Frietzl etc - They're just jokes. It doesn't mean that the person telling the joke is less likely to treat a victim appropriately.

It is not correct to say they were recorded without their consent. they knew they were carrying a video camera and were very unprofessional in the first place by not turning it off.

El Siglo · 05-04-2011 09:54PM

Guards are supposed to set an example, regardless. It was something said in jest amongst themselves in private. In spite of this, they are guards and should know better not to act the fuck, especially when they were on duty and regardless of whether they were being recorded or not. To be honest, I doubt rape victims would find this funny.

common sense brigade · 05-04-2011 09:54PM

I know plenty of people who tell jokes about rape, child molestors, Fred West, Hans Frietzl etc - They're just jokes. It doesn't mean that the person telling the joke is less likely to treat a victim appropriately

well said. ireland just gets worse and worse now we are being controlled by what we say in jest even if in bad taste.

KINGVictor · 05-04-2011 09:55PM

Wildebrian wrote: »

The Lord God ! Two Gardai having a laugh! Pity the subject of the Joke is a member of a completely unrepresentative and undemocratic bunch of eco nazis.I think we have a lot more to worry about than this non event.

It might seem to you and others as a non event but the reality is that Officers that had tax payers money spent on their training and swore to protect the populace against crime shouldn't be having that sort of "laugh" as you conveniently classify such atrousious comments. What they say in the privacy of their homes is irrelevant but not when in uniform and in the process of discharging their duties.

While I agree it could have harmless banter between colleagues, I am really interested what the general consensus would have been if this conversation was between some TDs or some foreign police force, I can assume that the outcome of this thread would have been different in terms of the villification that will have ensued.

The truth is that the involved officers made serious errors of judgement both in their approach and utterances , as such they should be prepared to face the repercussions as any other person!

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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