Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

Duiske · 05-04-2011 06:04PM

Caco wrote: »

Is this the video?

Is Pat Short in that car ? "Jesus lads, they were on top of a tractor like... they can't be do'in that" !!

sdanseo · 05-04-2011 06:06PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'll be honest, I don't give the slightest toss about the Corrib issue itself, nor do I harbour any instinctive reactive suspicion of AGS, so don't give me that. I once intended to pursue a career with them, because I believe very strongly in the importance of their role in society.

But that's what enrages me about stuff like this. These guys clearly do not take their responsibilities as officers of justice seriously. They aren't just joking about rape, which is inappropriate to start with - they're joking about abusing the authority and trust bestowed upon them by both the government and the public. The fact that so many people don't see a problem - or don't see the right problem - with what they said is deeply alarming.

It's not a direct comparison, but it is an example of the same dynamic taken to an exaggerated logical extreme. These folks are in a position of power over their fellow citizens, and that comes with conditions and expectations, even in private. In a role that requires a lot of judgement calls and moral deliberation, it's deeply troubling to see.

This comes back to my own work example. I joke about abusing the authority given to me by my employers all the time. Only yesterday i was counting the cash and did it in two piles while casually joking "fifty for me, fifty for company".

Doesn't mean that at the end of the day I don't take my job seriously and doesn't change the fact that I would never take so much as a cent from my employer that I wasn't entitled to.

Just because the trust of which you speak comes from the whole country rather than just one company does not make the action or its lack of results any different.

LostinKildare wrote: »

So. . . joking about raping a child in your care is a no-no, but joking about raping a woman about in your care is fine.

But . . . since neither breaks any law, as long as the joke is confined to a squad car/ teacher's lounge, at the end of the day it's a joke, so Teacher who joked about raping little Johnny in senior infants keeps his job, and Garda who joked about raping the handcuffed "blondy" in the "fanny wagon" keeps his too. Good times.

Exactly!

Because a joke in private is TOTALLY harmless unless you're a psycopath that want's to go through with it. Joking in public is a different matter entirely. For example, if I had made my joke about my cutomer getting hit by a bus, in the middle of the shopping centre in a loud voice...well, I;d be looking for a job wouldn't I, and rightly so for being so stupid.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 06:08PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'll be honest, I don't give the slightest toss about the Corrib issue itself, nor do I harbour any instinctive reactive suspicion of AGS, so don't give me that. I once intended to pursue a career with them, because I believe very strongly in the importance of their role in society.

But that's what enrages me about stuff like this. These guys clearly do not take their responsibilities as officers of justice seriously. They aren't just joking about rape, which is inappropriate to start with - they're joking about abusing the authority and trust bestowed upon them by both the government and the public. The fact that so many people don't see a problem - or don't see the right problem - with what they said is deeply alarming.

It's not a direct comparison, but it is an example of the same dynamic taken to an exaggerated logical extreme. These folks are in a position of power over their fellow citizens, and that comes with conditions and expectations, even in private. In a role that requires a lot of judgement calls and moral deliberation, it's deeply troubling to see this mindset.

They were joking about it. Yet despite all this joking they were able to deal with the situation and the women with no complaints and no abuse of power. A clear indication that they were able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard. In the words of a grat man "It's not what you say that matters, it's what you do that defines you" or something like that.

prinz · 05-04-2011 06:09PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

To elaborate - Prinz, that is honestly one of the most f*cked up things I've ever seen typed in earnest by somebody with half decent spelling ability.

Oh touché. Unfortunately you haven't actually dealt with any of it.

jill_valentine wrote: »

Don't you think it's weird that you have to go to such wextraordinary lengths to find a way to put the victim at fault? Doesn't that ring any alarm bells at all?

I haven't gone to any wextraordinary lengths at all. Typical straw man though, lots of bluster, not much substance.

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'm not going to continue debating this with you any more, and I don't mean this as a taking-my-football-and-going-home tactic.

Uh, yes you do. You haven't actually responded to my core points. You have refused a number of times to answer a simple question.

jill_valentine wrote: »

Your attitude to sex crime is so absolutely devoid of logic, reason or basic recognition of human behaviour that we might as well be speaking different languages.

You have no idea what my "attitude to sex crime" is. Please don't pretend otherwise.

jill_valentine wrote: »

But that's what enrages me about stuff like this. These guys clearly do not take their responsibilities as officers of justice seriously.

How do you know?

mikom · 05-04-2011 06:10PM

sdonn wrote: »

This comes back to my own work example. I joke about abusing the authority given to me by my employers all the time.

Are you a Guardian of the Peace of Ireland in that job?
Otherwise its entirely different.

Pauleta · 05-04-2011 06:10PM

Just heard it now. They were just having a tasteless joke between them. Happens all the time. They didnt threaten to rape them. And yes i did laugh when i heard it. It doesnt mean i condone rape. It was just a joke between 2 people.

LostinKildare · 05-04-2011 06:15PM

k_mac wrote: »

They were joking about it. Yet despite all this joking they were able to deal with the situation and the women with no complaints and no abuse of power. A clear indication that they were able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard. In the words of a grat man "It's not what you say that matters, it's what you do that defines you" or something like that.

Wrong. According to the Irish Times:

They are upset about the exchanges that were recorded and say they were manhandled by several officers during their arrest near the Shell compound for the new Corrib gas pipeline route in north Mayo.
The woman who was carrying the video camera says she had her arms forced until she dropped the camera, and sustained bruising. Her colleague says she was treated in an “unnecessarily physical fashion”.

So, if a lack of complaints would to you be "a clear indication that they were able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard," does that mean the obverse is true -- i.e., the fact that there was a complaint is a clear indication that they were not able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard?

sdanseo · 05-04-2011 06:15PM

mikom wrote: »

Are you a Guardians of the Peace of Ireland in that job?
Otherwise its entirely different.

NO IT ISN'T.

Just because the job they hold has the endorsement of the people rather than a private company does not mean they should be held to a higher standard in what they joke about on downtime, FFS.

If that was the case, should a fireman who makes a similar joke be sacked? Or a postman, maybe?

Spudmonkey · 05-04-2011 06:17PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

So, if a lack of complaints would to you be "a clear indication that they were able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard," does that mean the obverse is true -- i.e., the fact that there was a complaint is a clear indication that they were not able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard?

Did they actually rape the women? I must have missed that.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 06:19PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Wrong. According to the Irish Times:

So, if a lack of complaints would to you be "a clear indication that they were able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard," does that mean the obverse is true -- i.e., the fact that there was a complaint is a clear indication that they were not able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard?

Sorry I meant no believable complaint. I forgot that those folks complain about everything. FYI forcing a persons arms behind their back is how someone is handcuffed.

SuperInfinity · 05-04-2011 06:21PM

Why don't they try finding a real job instead of enforcing the corperations' "right" on people?

These garda should be arrested and thrown in prison. If it were ordinary people joking about such a crime as rape or murder it would be contemptable but a lot different (maybe in some sort of extremely rare situation it might be acceptable). These gardai were on official business... crazy stuff.

What does an authority have to do before some of you people get it through your thick skulls that these people are clowns and every little bit of power you give these people they will abuse it???

Anyone who is trying to defend the gardai here is an ignorant fool.

mikom · 05-04-2011 06:22PM

sdonn wrote: »

NO IT ISN'T.

Just because the job they hold has the endorsement of the people rather than a private company does not mean they should be held to a higher standard in what they joke about on downtime, FFS.

No need for the FFS.
They were not on downtime.

K-9 · 05-04-2011 06:22PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Wrong. According to the Irish Times:

So, if a lack of complaints would to you be "a clear indication that they were able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard," does that mean the obverse is true -- i.e., the fact that there was a complaint is a clear indication that they were not able to seperate their dark humour from their ability to do their job to a high standard?

Usually there will be bruising and some force used when arresting somebody who isn't willing to go easily.

Cork boy 55 · 05-04-2011 06:22PM

Storm in a tea cup

If half the chatter me and my work collegaues joked about at work
was recorded and put down in black and white
I would be confined to a mental home and chained to a wall.

give them a warning for being stupid enough to get recorded making offensive comments and a slap on the wrist

coolhandspan · 05-04-2011 06:23PM

Total storm in a teacup, private joke caught on camera. Ridiculous all the tv coverage.
joking not a crime, obstructing traffic is a crime. nobody has stated that two women were out of line.

Wetbench4 · 05-04-2011 06:24PM

k_mac wrote: »

Sorry I meant no believable complaint. I forgot that those folks complain about everything. FYI forcing a persons arms behind their back is how someone is handcuffed.

What exactly was she arrested for? Possession of a video camera? I think, and i could be wrong, that she recorded the gurads removing someone from a tractor without using their proper procedure and harness etc. So they took her in just in case?? Do the guards have a right to lay hands on someone for no reason? I didn't hear what they charged her with, if anything?

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 06:24PM

Just re-reading early pages of this thread, fair play to Micky Dolenz, spot on.

RayM · 05-04-2011 06:25PM

sdonn wrote: »

These protesters were neither vulnerable nor innocent. They (most likely) were provocative, lawbreaking hippies who were in Mayo for no other reson than to flout the law and try to enforce their anti-Shell agenda by breaching the peace in a country and place that meant absolutely nothing to them.

Poor, poor, innocent, vulnerable Shell.

It's horrible to see that most law-abiding and ethical of giant multinational corporations being harassed by such dangerous agenda-driven... hippies (because hippies are clearly the most malevolent people in the entire world), armed with their placards and video cameras.

If those members aren't sacked (as opposed to the usual 'punishment' of being told to remain indoors until it all blows over), the Gardai will have missed out on an opportunity to (a) get rid of a bunch of obvious gobshites, and (b) very clearly show that, as an organisation, they take the issue of sexual assault very seriously.

coolhandspan · 05-04-2011 06:25PM

Arrested under public order act.

Wetbench4 · 05-04-2011 06:26PM

coolhandspan wrote: »

Arrested under public order act.

For videoing something?

Dionysus · 05-04-2011 06:27PM

I was totally ignoring this story and just putting it down to the usual attempts to discredit AGS.

However, I've just read the transcript over on The Irish Times and I'm shocked that there is such solid evidence against the gardaí in question.

Here's the transcript and here's the audio clip.

This is unbelievable. If this is a sample of the rightwing neo-fascist treatment the Garda Síochána has been dishing out to the Shell-to-Sea campaigners for the past number of years then the Irish state is acting deeply shamefully here. If this recording didn't exist, you can be sure the same old rightwing Blueshirt "law and order" morons would be denying it ever happened. That's the truly sickening part.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 06:27PM

mikom wrote: »

No need for the FFS.
They were not on downtime.

How do you know?

Wetbench4 wrote: »

What exactly was she arrested for? Possession of a video camera? I think, and i could be wrong, that she recorded the gurads removing someone from a tractor without using their proper procedure and harness etc. So they took her in just in case?? Do the guards have a right to lay hands on someone for no reason? I didn't hear what they charged her with, if anything?

She was obstructing the road and was arrested under the public order act for not giving her name.

coolhandspan · 05-04-2011 06:27PM

please read public order act wetbench

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 06:28PM

Woman from the Rape Crisis Center on the news now making some very valid points about how damaging this whole thing is.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 06:30PM

Dionysus wrote: »

I was totally ignoring this story and just putting it down to the usual attempts to discredit AGS.

However, I've just read the transcript over on The Irish Times and I'm shocked that there is such solid evidence against the gardaí in question.

Here's the transcript and here's the audio clip.

This is unbelievable. If this is a sample of the rightwing neo-fascist treatment the Garda Síochána has been dishing out to the Shell-to-Sea campaigners for the past number of years then the Irish state is acting deeply shamefully here. If this recording didn't exist, you can be sure the same old rightwing Blueshirt "law and order" morons would be denying it ever happened. That's the truly sickening part.

If the recording didn't exist who exactly would be complaining about their banter?

Cork boy 55 · 05-04-2011 06:31PM

Dionysus wrote: »

I was totally ignoring this story and just putting it down to the usual attempts to discredit AGS.

However, I've just read the transcript over on The Irish Times and I'm shocked that there is such solid evidence against the gardaí in question.

Here's the transcript and here's the audio clip.

This is unbelievable. If this is a sample of the rightwing neo-fascist treatment the Garda Síochána has been dishing out to the Shell-to-Sea campaigners for the past number of years then the Irish state is acting deeply shamefully here. If this recording didn't exist, you can be sure the same old rightwing Blueshirt "law and order" morons would be denying it ever happened. That's the truly sickening part.

I wonder why the bit about facebook was left out

Conversation continues about Facebook in Garda station

????????????????????????????????

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 06:31PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Woman from the Rape Crisis Center on the news now making some very valid points about how damaging this whole thing is.

I agree with this. I think it will have a negative effect on people coming forward. Which is why I am disappointed with the way it was released and reported on.

mikom · 05-04-2011 06:32PM

mikom wrote: »

No need for the FFS.
They were not on downtime.

k_mac wrote: »

How do you know?

They were carrying a piece of evidence (video camera) in a squad car at the time.
Hardly downtime.

prinz · 05-04-2011 06:33PM

k_mac wrote: »

I agree with this. I think it will have a negative effect on people coming forward. Which is why I am disappointed with the way it was released and reported on.

Yup, could easily have been dealt with appropriately instead of all the fuss, Of course all the fuss is exactly what they wanted.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 06:34PM

mikom wrote: »

They were carrying a piece of evidence (video camera) in a squad car at the time.
Hardly downtime.

It wasn't evidence. It was property. They could still have been on their way back to grab a bite to eat.

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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