Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 05:06PM

prinz wrote: »

If you know people who didn't report a sex crime, then blame them

Wow. Just... wow.

Sgt. Sensible · 05-04-2011 05:08PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

People offended by this should never play games online.

People who aren't disgusted by this probably haven't reached puberty yet. On top of everything else, the gardai involved have disgraced their uniform and their families.

And the RTE news editor has some explaining to do as well.

The Garda press office have tried to spin this horrific revelation by press releasing that a “Garda Superintendent from outside the Mayo area was appointed this afternoon to carry out an examination of the alleged derogatory remarks.” Shamefully but unsurprizingly RTE initially simply reprinted and broadcast on the Nine o’Clock News this press release without question, despite the fact that audio, video and a transcript were all sent to the station 10 hours beforehand, around 11pm on Monday.

The behaviour of the gardai, the inadequacy of the state broadcaster and many of the responses on this thread are symptomatic of what a sick, pathetic and infantile nation Ireland has proven to be.

tightropetom · 05-04-2011 05:08PM

Poor Craythur wrote: »

OK, I have more to say but I'm done. You're far too obdurate, just can't. Good day.

"Obdurate"

I know this is OT, but thanks for teaching me a new word! :-) Gonna try and use that a couple of times this week!

milehip1 · 05-04-2011 05:09PM

Having seen some of the footage of the Garda handling of the protest
I'd imagine this sort of "chat" was only the tip of the iceberg,
these fools have brought their uniform into disrepute and should be sanctioned accordingly.

But seeing as how the Garda review themselves I'm sure it'll just be a slap on the wrist.

prinz · 05-04-2011 05:10PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Wow. Just... wow.

Great response, selectively quote and try to be smart. Can you answer this straighforward question..

Three friends. Two of them get sexually assaulted and refuse to come forward due to lack of faith in everything from the gardaí to the judge. They make their reasons clear. Unfortunately third friend gets sexually assaulted. Does the opinions of the first two affect the third's decision more, or does an unfunny joke between two people on the opposite side of the country?

If you can answer that and honestly say the joke will have more bearing and influence on the third in not coming forward than the decision and the reasoning of the first two then more power to you.

Bosco boy · 05-04-2011 05:13PM

mikom wrote: »

Still standing in judgement?
*Looks at sig* "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"

Ah! How are ya! Welcome back! And remember "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" I think it's pretty apt in this case, we've all made comments we regret and if each poster had their worst comments recorded and posted I think there would be many red faces around. Move on folks!

sdanseo · 05-04-2011 05:16PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

There's nothing to indicate the woman was a violent criminal, and certainly nothing to indicate that she had "flown to Ireland specifically to laugh in the face of the Gardaí."

Gardai, like teachers, are often given physical control over innocent and vulnerable people to whom they owe a duty of care.

These protesters were neither vulnerable nor innocent. They (most likely) were provocative, lawbreaking hippies who were in Mayo for no other reson than to flout the law and try to enforce their anti-Shell agenda by breaching the peace in a country and place that meant absolutely nothing to them. These anarchists are organised, militant bandits who should be locked up.

If someone has a normal, well-balanced objection to a planning decision they can lodge a complaint. Blocking roads, fighting with Gardaí, in many cases inciting Gardaí to arrest or restrain them, lying in front of trucks, vandalising bulding equipment and other bully tactics are just a few of the things that these guys are capable and guilty of. We've seen on yotube vid after youtube vid the unacceptable manner in which these guys behave and they expect my sympathy?

Please.

I'll put my hand up and say that the last customer who pissed me off in my shop, was the "victim" of my comment to another staff member afterwards "I hope he gets a whack of a bus".

That doesn't mean I actually want him to be hit by a bus. I'd be shocked and upset if he was.

That does not mean my job should be introuble for saying it. This is a storm in a teacup and most of the reactions are typical Irish - "anything to do with the stae sure we'll complain about it, they must be wrong. We know best."

Pfft.

Micky Dolenz · 05-04-2011 05:19PM

Bosco boy wrote: »

Ah! How are ya! Welcome back! And remember "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" I think it's pretty apt in this case, we've all made comments we regret and if each poster had their worst comments recorded and posted I think there would be many red faces around. Move on folks!

we should just stay here.

Of course we have all posted shite we regret. That isn't being disputed. But if we did it in a professional capacity, there should be measured consequence. Not sackings or break ups, just a strong word in the ear of what is appropriate talk when at work.

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 05:25PM

To elaborate - Prinz, that is honestly one of the most f*cked up things I've ever seen typed in earnest by somebody with half decent spelling ability.

I asked you if you knew any women because your perspective on this is so completely bizarre I wanted to see if you actually live on the same plane as the rest of us. Of course a rape victim is unlikely to specifically think of this incident, but for God's sake, do you not see how it contributes to overall public perception of their police force? Do you think that hypothetical victim in Wexford lives in a hermetically sealed bubble? Don't you think it's weird that you have to go to such extraordinary lengths to find a way to put the victim at fault? Doesn't that ring any alarm bells at all?

I'm not going to continue debating this with you any more, and I don't mean this as a taking-my-football-and-going-home tactic. Your attitude to sex crime is so absolutely devoid of logic, reason or basic recognition of human behaviour that we might as well be speaking different languages.

I am sincerely shocked to see somebody say something like this, even in After Hours, in this day and age.

prinz wrote: »

If you know people who didn't report a sex crime, then blame them, for they are doing much more of a disservice to other victims and possibly to future potential victims than the gardaí from the OP in perpetuating the falsehood that the gardaí won't take them seriously. They are the people to blame.

panda100 · 05-04-2011 05:29PM

sdonn wrote: »

These protesters were neither vulnerable nor innocent. They (most likely) were provocative, lawbreaking hippies who were in Mayo for no other reson than to flout the law and try to enforce their anti-Shell agenda by breaching the peace in a country and place that meant absolutely nothing to them. These anarchists are organised, militant bandits who should be locked up.

If someone has a normal, well-balanced objection to a planning decision they can lodge a complaint. Blocking roads, fighting with Gardaí, in many cases inciting Gardaí to arrest or restrain them, lying in front of trucks, vandalising bulding equipment and other bully tactics are just a few of the things that these guys are capable and guilty of. We've seen on yotube vid after youtube vid the unacceptable manner in which these guys behave and they expect my sympathy?

You might want to read less of the Indo and Daily mail there, and actually get your facts in order about whats happening. Individuals in the community made several 'normal, well-balanced objections' to the planning decisions, and their rights as citizens were continually walked all over and infringed upon. Blocking roads etc is really the only option for them left.

05-04-2011 05:30PM

Only seen this thread now, and heard the video.

Personally I find the conversation hilarious. The lads talking about how they were thaught in training to remove people from heights and saying that they should have had to erect a scaffolding inthe road and abseil the women down and such, and then talking about where they'd get step ladders from and if they'd be the right height etc.

I've worked alongside many people, from cabinet makers, carpenters, plumbers, photographers, bouncers, retail and restaurant staff, etc. and I've very often heard the word rape been thrown around. I've often used it as an ice-breaker myself. Never seen anyone getting upset about it.

prinz · 05-04-2011 05:31PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'm not going to continue debating this with you any more, and I don't mean this as a taking-my-football-and-going-home tactic. .

So that would be a 'no, I won't respond to a straight forward question, because I prefer fighting a straw-man'.

LostinKildare · 05-04-2011 05:33PM

sdonn wrote: »

These protesters were neither vulnerable nor innocent. They (most likely) were provocative, lawbreaking hippies who were in Mayo for no other reson than to flout the law and try to enforce their anti-Shell agenda by breaching the peace in a country and place that meant absolutely nothing to them. These anarchists are organised, militant bandits who should be locked up.

The women were released without charge. They are hardly the violent bandits you make them out to be. And how can you say that the place means nothing to them? How do you know? One of the not-too-bright gards thinks she has a yank accent so you paint a picture of a dangerous anarchist flown in to make trouble? Cmon! And of course a person in the physical custody of the police is vulnerable -- she is completely under their control.

This is all kind of beside the point though, unless you are trying to say that it is okay to joke about raping a prisoner in custody as long as that prisoner has done something bad. Is that it? Does that also go for the teacher and child scenario? Would it be less objectionable if the teacher joked about raping child who was bold vs. a well-behaved child?

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 05:33PM

Wetbench4 wrote: »

Anyone who has dealt with a guard knows what they are like. They think and often act like they are above us non-guard people, and they forget they are just the same as the rest of us,no better(maybe worse in some cases), except their job is to protect and serve us. I don't agree with those girls standing on a tractor to block traffic but its nice to know that after this scandal, the guards might be brought down a peg or two and remember they're not above the law, they're just supposed to enforce it. Maybe they will act more like real police after this.

They didn't actually break a law so which one are they above in your opinion?

beatrice33 wrote: »

This is just WHY I dont get a joke like this...they have seen the horror and the trauma and still joke about doing it themselves? I know this doesnt mean they would actually do it, but is just SO disrespectful is shocking, and they are on duty, not in their house, not in the pub

Because they don't want to take that home with them. Take the worst things you encounter, rationalise them, make them into humour and forget about them. For Gardaí the worse things they encounter are rape, murder and suicide. If someone told you they were raped you would probably be shocked and horrified. A garda can't be. They have to act straight away with a clear head. Unfortunately this means that they have to develop a certain emotional numbness and a detachment to the worst things they can encounter, rape and suicide being the most prominent. This is what allows you to investigate a crime properly. This is something that happens within emergency services all around the world.

MrsD007 wrote: »

Andy Gray didn't realise his comments were going to be shown in public and that didn't save him from being sacked.

These guys are just muppets. However, I'm afraid that some victims of rape or abuse might be afraid to report incidents to the Gardai for fear they will meet insensitive sh1tes like these pair. :mad:

Andy Grey invited a female staff member to put their hands down his pants. She was there at the time. He was also suing his employer.

mikom · 05-04-2011 05:34PM

Bosco boy wrote: »

Ah! How are ya! Welcome back! And remember "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" I think it's pretty apt in this case, we've all made comments we regret and if each poster had their worst comments recorded and posted I think there would be many red faces around. Move on folks!

Sorry, I had to pop out for some air.
It's surprising how much dust is thrown up whilst the wagons are being circled.

Strongbow10 · 05-04-2011 05:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Only seen this thread now, and heard the video.

Personally I find the conversation hilarious. The lads talking about how they were thaught in training to remove people from heights and saying that they should have had to erect a scaffolding inthe road and abseil the women down and such, and then talking about where they'd get step ladders from and if they'd be the right height etc.

I've worked alongside many people, from cabinet makers, carpenters, plumbers, photographers, bouncers, retail and restaurant staff, etc. and I've very often heard the word rape been thrown around. I've often used it as an ice-breaker myself. Never seen anyone getting upset about it.

Seriously, what kind of a f*cking moron are you??
Mod: Poster banned.

04KY · 05-04-2011 05:44PM

panda100 wrote: »

You might want to read less of the Indo and Daily mail there, and actually get your facts in order about whats happening. Individuals in the community made several 'normal, well-balanced objections' to the planning decisions, and their rights as citizens were continually walked all over and infringed upon. Blocking roads etc is really the only option for them left.

You might want to read less of Indymedia there.

Vast majority of locals are in favour of the terminal and pipeline. It's the vocal few who intimidate. A lot of protesters are not from the area, have no idea of the issues and just want to cause trouble, I know this as I lived in the area and worked on the project, although not for Shell.

As for the Gardai, stupid thing to say. But I can't help but feel Shell to Sea are only really interested in the publicity from this.

Jayob10 · 05-04-2011 05:45PM

Strongbow10 wrote: »

Seriously, what kind of a f*cking moron are you??
Mod: Poster banned.

have to say id agree with the poster here, dont mean to interfere with your modding but use of the word rape to "break the ice" is shocking.

TerrorFirmer · 05-04-2011 05:46PM

This is all kind of beside the point though, unless you are trying to say that it is okay to joke about raping a prisoner in custody as long as that prisoner has done something bad. Is that it? Does that also go for the teacher and child scenario? Would it be less objectionable if the teacher joked about raping child who was bold vs. a well-behaved child?

They were in a patrol car with what they thought and naturally assumed to be each others company. I think the whole thing is a load of ****, to be honest, by the nature of the video and certain posts, you'd swear that the guards were threatening to rape them as they arrested them. That's actually the conclusion I arrived at having heard this sensational 'Daily Mail' style thread title around a few different places. It was a few guards in a patrol car joking around. I listened to the whole thing, and have pretty much no issue with it.

Guards threatening rape in the presences of others? Definite no no. Guards threatening rape in the presence of others in the context of a joke? Still a no no. Guards joking about rape and having a bit of banter in their own patrol card amongst themselves? Absolutely fine by me, they're human too.

Andy Gray didn't realise his comments were going to be shown in public and that didn't save him from being sacked.

Nothing alike. He said it to a third party. The gardai here were joking amongst themselves.

The title of this thread and the ridiculous tabloid title of the video are pathetic. "Give me your address or I'll Rape you; the reality of Corrib Policing" - the worst, most desperate, agenda soaked twisting of context yet. The only people I feel sorry for are the guards in the video, to be frank.

sdanseo · 05-04-2011 05:46PM

We are not in court here. I don't have to prove that protesters are militant lawbreakers, nor do you have to disprove it. When reasonable doubt goes out the window I think it's perfectly obvious to those of us who have brains what was going on.

panda100 wrote: »

You might want to read less of the Indo and Daily mail there, and actually get your facts in order about whats happening. Individuals in the community made several 'normal, well-balanced objections' to the planning decisions, and their rights as citizens were continually walked all over and infringed upon. Blocking roads etc is really the only option for them left.

I formed my opinions on the shell protesters a long time ago, mainly from watching various youtube videos and watching the rossport five scenerio etc etc on the news.

If blocking road is their "only option" then the planning process has been completed and the outcome was simply not to their satisfaction. If ABP received objections and decided they were completely unfounded, then granting the permission (this is what happened), then that's the democratic process. If you don't like it, well sorry about you, the process was followed to the book.

The whole "selling out to Shell" argument is a totally different one but it amounts to the government apparently not getting value for money for state owned resources. It's not like we were going to be the next Saudi Arabia from this find, so that's not an issue which anyone should feel the need to act the twat over, in my opinion.

LostinKildare wrote: »

The women were released without charge. They are hardly the violent bandits you make them out to be. And how can you say that the place means nothing to them? How do you know? One of the not-too-bright gards thinks she has a yank accent so you paint a picture of a dangerous anarchist flown in to make trouble? Cmon! And of course a person in the physical custody of the police is vulnerable -- she is completely under their control.

This is all kind of beside the point though, unless you are trying to say that it is okay to joke about raping a prisoner in custody as long as that prisoner has done something bad. Is that it? Does that also go for the teacher and child scenario? Would it be less objectionable if the teacher joked about raping child who was bold vs. a well-behaved child?

Stop arguing the toss over the teacher comparison, it's not valid.

Joking about rape of a child is in a totally different league to joking about the rape of an adult, but on a techincal note neither breaks any law and therefore, if done in private (if you have access to the Nein 11 forum here, have a look there) and without any meaning of malintent, then what harm. Bottom line: A joke, whether in bad tase or purely vile taste, can still be humorous when you know that at the end of the day it's a joke. If you can't differentiate jokes from reality, then seek medical help.

These Gardaí had a laugh. Their actions physically affected no-one. If there hadn't been a recording we'd all be moaning about Anglo or something instead. The Irish seem to need something to complain about all the time, and today is An Garda Síochána. Tomorrow it'll maybe be NAMA. After that, I dunno - CIÉ? Have your pick. I don't care for pointless complaining for the sake of something to talk about.

Jayob10 · 05-04-2011 05:46PM

Obviously the guards were not going to "rape her". Theres no disputing that.

The fact these clowns, in their capacity as on duty Gardai might I add, find the mere idea to hold some kind of comedy value, is highly inappropriate.

Utter f*cking goons of the highest order. And i'm sure other members of the Gardai find it totally unacceptable aswell.

LostinKildare · 05-04-2011 05:46PM

sdonn wrote: »

I'll put my hand up and say that the last customer who pissed me off in my shop, was the "victim" of my comment to another staff member afterwards "I hope he gets a whack of a bus".

That doesn't mean I actually want him to be hit by a bus. I'd be shocked and upset if he was.

That does not mean my job should be introuble for saying it. This is a storm in a teacup and most of the reactions are typical Irish - "anything to do with the stae sure we'll complain about it, they must be wrong. We know best."

Pfft.

Can you not understand the difference between you hoping out loud that some (passive) accident befalls a person over whom you have no control, and a police officer sworn to protect citizens saying that he wants to commit a violent offense against a person who is completely under his control? You can't make a bus hit your customer, and you are not responsible for his safety either. Gardai can and do sometimes assault people in their custody.

dr.bollocko · 05-04-2011 05:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've very often heard the word rape been thrown around. I've often used it as an ice-breaker myself. Never seen anyone getting upset about it.

Mod: Don't post in this thread again.

Jayob10 · 05-04-2011 05:50PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Can you not understand the difference between you hoping out loud that some (passive) accident befalls a person over whom you have no control, and a police officer sworn to protect citizens saying that he wants to commit a violent offense against a person who is completely under his control? You can't make a bus hit your customer, and you are not responsible for his safety either. Gardai can and do sometimes assault people in their custody.

honestly, I find it breathtaking that anyone would defend this so called banter amongst goons.

Goons who are in the job to serve and protect.

Chris P. Bacon · 05-04-2011 05:50PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

have to say id agree with the poster here, dont mean to interfere with your modding but use of the word rape to "break the ice" is shocking.

Its not really though is it,ive used it myself as an ice breaker,well not rape i just say "how about a bit of surprise sex",it usually gets them going.

Jayob10 · 05-04-2011 05:53PM

Chris P. Bacon wrote: »

Its not really though is it,ive used it myself as an ice breaker,well not rape i just say "how about a bit of surprise sex",it usually gets them going.

are ya an on duty guard by any chance?

Says alot about a person who finds that kind of banter funny to be honest.

sdanseo · 05-04-2011 05:56PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Can you not understand the difference between you hoping out loud that some (passive) accident befalls a person over whom you have no control, and a police officer sworn to protect citizens saying that he wants to commit a violent offense against a person who is completely under his control? You can't make a bus hit your customer, and you are not responsible for his safety either. Gardai can and do sometimes assault people in their custody.

You're making a mountain out of a microscopic molehill.

The Garda joked. He did not rape, he did not assault, he did not publicly intend to bring his employer into disrepute, he clearly did not intend to rape and he clearly did not intend to assault.

He was clearly joking. Otherwise, we'd be reading about his arrest. But we're not.

You are either shítstirring or you're incapable of accepting that sometimes jokes are made in bad taste. That does not make them illegal, does not make them a sackable offence and does not mean they are wrong.

Dr Bollocko I'm going to send you a pm rather than discuss my disageement with your last post publicly.

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 06:01PM

I'll be honest, I don't give the slightest toss about the Corrib issue itself, nor do I harbour any instinctive reactive suspicion of AGS, so don't give me that. I once intended to pursue a career with them, because I believe very strongly in the importance of their role in society.

But that's what enrages me about stuff like this. These guys clearly do not take their responsibilities as officers of justice seriously. They aren't just joking about rape, which is inappropriate to start with - they're joking about abusing the authority and trust bestowed upon them by both the government and the public. The fact that so many people don't see a problem - or don't see the right problem - with what they said is deeply alarming.

sdonn wrote: »

Stop arguing the toss over the teacher comparison, it's not valid.

Joking about rape of a child is in a totally different league to joking about the rape of an adult

It's not a direct comparison, but it is an example of the same dynamic taken to an exaggerated logical extreme. These folks are in a position of power over their fellow citizens, and that comes with conditions and expectations, even in private. In a role that requires a lot of judgement calls and moral deliberation, it's deeply troubling to see this mindset.

Lady Chatterton · 05-04-2011 06:03PM

k_mac wrote: »

Andy Grey invited a female staff member to put their hands down his pants. She was there at the time. He was also suing his employer.

You might also remember that Richard Keyes was sacked as well. He was sacked for making derogatory comments.

LostinKildare · 05-04-2011 06:03PM

sdonn wrote: »

Stop arguing the toss over the teacher comparison, it's not valid.

Joking about rape of a child is in a totally different league to joking about the rape of an adult, but on a techincal note neither breaks any law and therefore, if done in private (if you have access to the Nein 11 forum here, have a look there) and without any meaning of malintent, then what harm. Bottom line: A joke, whether in bad tase or purely vile taste, can still be humorous when you know that at the end of the day it's a joke. If you can't differentiate jokes from reality, then seek medical help.

So. . . joking about raping a child in your care is a no-no, but joking about raping a woman about in your care is fine.

But . . . since neither breaks any law, as long as the joke is confined to a squad car/ teacher's lounge, at the end of the day it's a joke, so Teacher who joked about raping little Johnny in senior infants keeps his job, and Garda who joked about raping the handcuffed "blondy" in the "fanny wagon" keeps his too. Good times.

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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