Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 02:42PM

According to the Ombudsman there has been no complaint received as yet. Kind if shows the real motivation behind the release of the tape.

R P McMurphy · 05-04-2011 02:44PM

k_mac wrote: »

According to the Ombudsman there has been no complaint received as yet. Kind if shows the real motivation behind the release of the tape.

Ombudsman has not received a complaint but is opening an investigation in public interest

optogirl · 05-04-2011 02:45PM

Chief--- wrote: »

Unfortunate that the lads private conversation was recorded and it will be blown into something massive.

To be honest during the arrest and the conversation in the car the lads seem very reasonable and didnt lose their heads with the protesters.

Black humor is utilised by nearly every emergency service in the world and it is used alot. Non emergency service personnel would obviously not appreciate it thats why its usually kept behind closed doors.

There have been many studies on the utilisation of cynical humor among emergency service professionals and it has been found to be vital to their profession.

I remember reading an article from the Cambridge textbook on emergency services where it stated that it was vital way of coping with what you come up against in such a job.

If a senior member had found this tape it wouldnt even be an issue but it will be blown sky high by the protesters and people who dont ever have to use black humor in their profession.

Black humour about death is totally different to humour about rape. Death is a fact of life and going to happen to each of us. Rape is a weapon used by the viscious.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 02:45PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Ombudsman has not received a complaint but is opening an investigation in public interest

Yes but if those involved were really upset and terrified you'd think they would have reported it to the Ombudsman before giving their interviews.

prinz · 05-04-2011 02:46PM

timmmay wrote: »

I do remember though a taxi driver who could pick up gardai frequencies on his radio telling me how he used to listen in on conversations of gardai who would be sitting in their patrol car at night in the city making lewd comments about the women walking by...

Ah taxi drivers. The last bastions of propriety and professionalism. Some of the stuff I have heard from taxi drivers would put these gardaí in the shade. I brush it off and ignore it.

timmmay wrote: »

I would tend to agree with this and i would say also the standard of education amongst members of the force is very low compared to other western countries. In the usa to becomes a police officer or state trooper a university degree or stint in the military is required as madatory..

No it isn't.

optogirl · 05-04-2011 02:47PM

k_mac wrote: »

Yes but if those involved were really upset and terrified you'd think they would have reported it to the Ombudsman before giving their interviews.

the women haven't released a statement at all

LostinKildare · 05-04-2011 02:47PM

Buceph wrote: »

Yes, context is important. The context being that they were working as agents of the state and were in control of someone.

Exactly. Bad as it would be in an office environment to joke with your coworkers about raping the secretary (don't try if you work for a US multinational, they won't see the funny side), that doesn't touch on the whole power/control dynamic.

Those who are defending the gardai -- would you feel the same way if it was a group of HSE workers caught joking about raping children in their care?

Overheal · 05-04-2011 02:47PM

k_mac wrote: »

According to the Ombudsman there has been no complaint received as yet. Kind if shows the real motivation behind the release of the tape.

And? An investigation is already underway, regardless. What are they going to do if you complain privately to the ombudsman? Like so many other things, give you empty words and sit on it.

PeakOutput · 05-04-2011 02:48PM

optogirl wrote: »

Black humour about death is totally different to humour about rape. Death is a fact of life and going to happen to each of us. Rape is a weapon used by the viscious.

the only difference is in your head.

PeakOutput · 05-04-2011 02:49PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Those who are defending the gardai -- would you feel the same way if it was a group of HSE workers caught joking about raping children in their care?

Yes

Turner · 05-04-2011 02:49PM

timmmay wrote: »

I would tend to agree with this and i would say also the standard of education amongst members of the force is very low compared to other western countries. In the usa to becomes a police officer or state trooper a university degree or stint in the military is required as madatory. In ireland a junior cert. This is obviously not a good enough requirement for people expected to uphold the law.

Gardai have one of the longest training schemes in the world. They complete a Hetac degree course during their training and most people joining the Gardai already have third level qualifications. I have met many with MA's and MSc's.

It is a civil service job so the minimum standards to apply are low, the same as any civil service job. Any you need your leaving cert to apply, not just your junior cert! :rolleyes:

_DMac_ · 05-04-2011 02:49PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Ombudsman has not received a complaint but is opening an investigation in public interest

the ombudsman are only trying to prove they are not a huge waste of tax payers money once again..

opening investigations with no complaint. imagine if the guards could do that??

Carlow52 · 05-04-2011 02:51PM

Clam shell as fig leaf:)

IQDENIED · 05-04-2011 02:52PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

the question asked was does it mean they take their jobs any less seriously?

The second quote asked that question, yes. We cannot evaluate how serious the garda took his job thus these questions are redundant...

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 02:53PM

k_mac wrote: »

Yes but if those involved were really upset and terrified you'd think they would have reported it to the Ombudsman before giving their interviews.

optogirl wrote: »

the women haven't released a statement at all

I'd imagine there's not much to say in a statement. After all, all that they did was watch a video.

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 02:53PM

optogirl wrote: »

the women haven't released a statement at all

According to indymedia

One of the women involved said: “It was terrifying to hear Gardaí talk in this way about rape. How can women living in the area feel safe when such a culture of brutal intimidation and violence exists here?”

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99445

Incidentally Indymedia have removed the original tape and uploaded an edited version. Apparently it was because of server space restriction.

Overheal wrote: »

And? An investigation is already underway, regardless. What are they going to do if you complain privately to the ombudsman? Like so many other things, give you empty words and sit on it.

Investigation is much better with a victim statement. If they were unhappy with the Ombudsman they could have gone public. Not only have they damaged their own credibility but they have damaged the chance of the Gardaí getting a fair hearing.

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 02:53PM

opcowner2007 wrote: »

the ombudsman are only trying to prove they are not a huge waste of tax payers money once again..

opening investigations with no complaint. imagine if the guards could do that??

It's not uncommon for the ombudsman to open an investigation on their own volition, is it? Once the details needed to do so have come to light then why shouldn't they investigate it?

And how exactly is it a waste of tax payers money? Would you prefer if it didn't exist? =o

prinz · 05-04-2011 02:54PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Those who are defending the gardai --

There seems to be many people seeing this issue as black and white. What they said was inappropriate and stupid, but on the grand scheme of things not all that serious. Reprimanded within the force as an example to others. That's it, that's one side of the debate.

The other side of the debate is that they are brutish prick uneducated vicious pig thugs abusing their position and should lose their jobs/spouses/partners/have their pictures put in the papers.

There is a serious disconnect evident, one that to me can only be explained by a prior hostility towards AGS in general.

optogirl · 05-04-2011 02:57PM

prinz wrote: »

There seems to be many people seeing this issue as black and white. What they said was inappropriate and stupid, but on the grand scheme of things not all that serious. Reprimanded within the force as an example to others. That's it, that's one side of the debate.

The other side of the debate is that they are brutish prick uneducated vicious pig thugs abusing their position and should lose their jobs/spouses/partners/have their pictures put in the papers.

There is a serious disconnect evident, one that to me can only be explained by a prior hostility towards AGS in general.

I think you're glossing over the 'Ah sure it's just banter and yiz all do it and should get over it' element to the first 'side' there

Micky Dolenz · 05-04-2011 02:57PM

opcowner2007 wrote: »

the ombudsman are only trying to prove they are not a huge waste of tax payers money once again..

opening investigations with no complaint. imagine if the guards could do that??

The Gardai have that power.

timmmay · 05-04-2011 02:57PM

Chief--- wrote: »

Gardai have one of the longest training schemes in the world. They complete a Hetac degree course during their training and most people joining the Gardai already have third level qualifications. I have met many with MA's and MSc's.

It is a civil service job so the minimum standards to apply are low, the same as any civil service job. Any you need your leaving cert to apply, not just your junior cert! :rolleyes:

What are the educational requirements?
Candidates must have obtained in the Leaving Certificate:

A grade not lower than B3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another level in Mathematics, and
A qualifying grade in 2 languages, 1 of which must be English or Irish, as follows:
English: a grade not lower that D3 at Ordinary Level
Irish: a grade not lower than C3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another level
Other language: a grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary Level, and
A grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary Level, in not less than 2 other subjects

Or
The Merit Grade in the Applied Leaving Certificate
Or
Like Grades in another examination, which, in the opinion of the Minister for Justice, Equality & Law Reform, is not of a lower standard than the above.

:rolleyes:

_DMac_ · 05-04-2011 02:57PM

My name is URL wrote: »

It's not uncommon for the ombudsman to open an investigation on their own volition, is it? Once the details needed to do so have come to light then why shouldn't they investigate it?

And how exactly is it a waste of tax payers money? Would you prefer if it didn't exist? =o

yes i would prefer if they didn't exist but the gaurds do need some monitoring. the ombudsman has totally put gardai off doing their job's to their full potential. unlike the scum on the streets the guards are guikty until proven innocent when it come to the ombudsman. its disgraceful stuff

prinz · 05-04-2011 02:59PM

optogirl wrote: »

I think you're glossing over the 'Ah sure it's just banter and yiz all do it and should get over it' element to the first 'side' there

How many people who have made that point have also said that these members should not face any disciplinary action whatsoever?

starviewadams · 05-04-2011 02:59PM

Incredibly stupid and inappropriate thing to say,and I'd imagine the Gardai involved will be reprimanded,for P.R. if for no other reason.

optogirl · 05-04-2011 03:00PM

starviewadams wrote: »

Incredibly stupid and inappropriate thing to say,and I'd imagine the Gardai involved will be reprimanded,for P.R. if for no other reason.

Perfect. /Thread

Turner · 05-04-2011 03:01PM

timmmay wrote: »

What are the educational requirements?
Candidates must have obtained in the Leaving Certificate:
A grade not lower than B3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another level in Mathematics, and

A qualifying grade in 2 languages, 1 of which must be English or Irish, as follows:
English: a grade not lower that D3 at Ordinary Level
Irish: a grade not lower than C3 at Foundation Level or D3 at another level
Other language: a grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary Level, and

A grade not lower than D3 at Ordinary Level, in not less than 2 other subjects

Or
The Merit Grade in the Applied Leaving Certificate
Or
Like Grades in another examination, which, in the opinion of the Minister for Justice, Equality & Law Reform, is not of a lower standard than the above.

:rolleyes:

As i said before it is a civil service job so the minimum requirements are above. The qualifications needed to apply are the same as a typist in a county council office would need. (nothing wrong with typists)

Once you get selected for Garda training you then have to complete a Bachelor of Arts Degree course and pass it.

LostinKildare · 05-04-2011 03:03PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Exactly. Bad as it would be in an office environment to joke with your coworkers about raping the secretary (don't try if you work for a US multinational, they won't see the funny side), that doesn't touch on the whole power/control dynamic.

Those who are defending the gardai -- would you feel the same way if it was a group of HSE workers caught joking about raping children in their care?

PeakOutput wrote: »

Yes

Ah, a tough nut, eh? How about if there was evidence that your child's teacher was joking with other teachers about raping your child? Would you brush that off as lads' banter, and confidently continue to send your child into his class every morning?

Contra Proferentem · 05-04-2011 03:05PM

Chief--- wrote: »

Once you get selected for Garda training you then have to complete a Bachelor of Arts Degree course and pass it.

I heard it's a diploma, not a Bachelor (Level 8).

Contra Proferentem · 05-04-2011 03:07PM

LostinKildare wrote: »

Ah, a tough nut, eh? How about if there was evidence that your child's teacher was joking with other teachers about raping your child? Would you brush that off as lads' banter, and confidently continue to send your child into his class every morning?

Neither of those are comparable

SeaFields · 05-04-2011 03:08PM

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

I heard it's a diploma, not a Bachelor (Level 8).

yes, Diploma in Policing Studies i what I heard too.

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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