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Lutheran countries are in better shape

2

Comments

  • #32
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Its like the saying - 'thats a bit more protestant' - when something is put right .


  • #33
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    mike65 wrote: »
    The biggest differences can be seen in the official corruption stats for europe, basicly northern Europe won't demand a pay off to avoid a fine Southern Europe will. Obviously its not a 100% correlation.

    # 1 Iceland: 9.7
    = 2 Finland: 9.6

    # 4 Denmark: 9.5

    # 6 Sweden: 9.2
    # 7 Switzerland: 9.1
    # 8 Norway: 8.9

    # 10 Austria: 8.7
    = 11 United Kingdom: 8.6
    = 11 Netherlands: 8.6
    # 13 Luxembourg: 8.5

    # 16 Germany:8.2

    # 18 France: 7.5
    = 19 Ireland: 7.4
    = 19 Belgium: 7.4

    # 23 Spain: 7

    # 25 Malta: 6.6
    # 26 Portugal: 6.5
    # 27 Estonia: 6.4

    # 31 Slovenia: 6.1


    = 37 Cyprus: 5.7

    = 40 Hungary: 5

    = 40 Italy: 5

    = 47 Slovakia: 4.3
    = 47 Greece: 4.3

    How reliable are these stats ? ;)


  • #34
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    whiteonion wrote: »
    I would want a state without any official religion... it should not endorse any single religion.

    Em.. you do realise France doesn't... right?


  • #35
    BornToBe?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭BornToBe?


    FatherLen wrote: »
    religion does not make a difference in economics

    :rolleyes: Ahem.....Jewish Religion? :D


  • #36
    whiteonion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 837 ✭✭✭whiteonion


    BornToBe? wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Ahem.....Jewish Religion? :D
    Are you some sort of antisemite?


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  • #37
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    Rangers could be bankrupt if a tax ruling goes against them...

    Rangers future up in the air


  • #38
    Spunge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Brazil, one of the biggest emerging economies in the world, is largely Roman Catholic.

    Brazil is a dump


  • #39
    BornToBe?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭BornToBe?


    whiteonion wrote: »
    Are you some sort of antisemite?


    No, just realistic, they did invent the banking system via a loop hole in their religion, so you could say, economics as everything to do with religion.


  • #40
    LumpyGravy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭LumpyGravy


    mike65 wrote: »
    The biggest differences can be seen in the official corruption stats for europe, basicly northern Europe won't demand a pay off to avoid a fine Southern Europe will. Obviously its not a 100% correlation.

    # 1 Iceland: 9.7
    = 2 Finland: 9.6

    # 4 Denmark: 9.5

    # 6 Sweden: 9.2
    # 7 Switzerland: 9.1
    # 8 Norway: 8.9

    # 10 Austria: 8.7
    = 11 United Kingdom: 8.6
    = 11 Netherlands: 8.6
    # 13 Luxembourg: 8.5

    # 16 Germany:8.2

    # 18 France: 7.5
    = 19 Ireland: 7.4
    = 19 Belgium: 7.4

    # 23 Spain: 7

    # 25 Malta: 6.6
    # 26 Portugal: 6.5
    # 27 Estonia: 6.4

    # 31 Slovenia: 6.1


    = 37 Cyprus: 5.7

    = 40 Hungary: 5

    = 40 Italy: 5

    = 47 Slovakia: 4.3
    = 47 Greece: 4.3

    Wouldn't call these official stats. It's taken from Transparency International's annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) and the ones quoted are from 2005.

    For updated stat's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index


  • #41
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    LumpyGravy wrote: »
    Wouldn't call these official stats. It's taken from Transparency International's annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) and the ones quoted are from 2005.

    For updated stat's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

    14th place - a few brown envelopes needed to get Ireland up so high me thinks :D


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  • #42
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    The protestant > catholic meme in economics has been discussed before here. It doesn't stand up.

    The protestant States of Northern Europe are doing well, now, in 2011. They weren't 5 years ago. In terms of long term growth the Catholic States of Southern America are catching up. Protestant Africa is generally in worse shape than Catholic Africa ( but French imperialism was much better than UK, or German).

    As for being Catholic, Ireland is effectively Protestantised by now ( i.e. people tend to follow their own conscience on most things) and is tending towards secularisation.

    So the theory does not hold, it is temporary in Europe, and not true worldwide.

    Corruption is a different issue. There is a small correlation between Catholicism and corruption , relative to Protestantism. There is also a larger correlation between northern Europe and lack of corruption, vs the South. Similar west-east. And Europe as a whole is uncorrupt by world standards.

    Ireland, is quite un-corrupt compared to some of our Southern neighbour's shenaghighans,


  • #43
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    It's a question of timing

    sweden and finland has severe crash in 1990(very like yours in cause and effect although not quite as bad in scale)
    other examples of boom and bust as well in prod countries can go on.

    etc etc etc

    nonsense thread based a stupid premise


  • #44
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    BornToBe? wrote: »
    No, just realistic, they did invent the banking system via a loop hole in their religion, so you could say, economics as everything to do with religion.

    Actually thats bs they were only allowed to occupy certain high posistions in society and one of them was money lender, it wasnt a defacing of their religion for capital game.


  • #45
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Lutherans countries tend to be not big drinkers! Maybe that's it.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #46
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    The OP posts some amount of junk, but it's a fair point - perhaps not so relevant today, but historically it has a degree of sense to it. So many staunchly catholic countries/areas have experienced, and still do, enormous poverty. Goes back to the notion of the protestant ethic - being frugal and modest with your money, not blowing a load of it on a diamond-encrusted bishop's crozier. Flashy **** like that was one of the things that led to the Reformation in the first place.


  • #47
    stoneill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Why Lutherian?
    Isn't the religious and moral ethos very similar for Reformationist, Anglican, Methodist, Presperterians and other Protestant faiths?


  • #48
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Dudess wrote: »
    The OP posts some amount of junk, but it's a fair point - perhaps not so relevant today, but historically it has a degree of sense to it. So many staunchly catholic countries/areas have experienced, and still do, enormous poverty. Goes back to the notion of the protestant ethic - being frugal and modest with your money, not blowing a load of it on a diamond-encrusted bishop's crozier. Flashy **** like that was one of the things that led to the Reformation in the first place.

    Sweden would be very Lutheran in philosophy. Quite liberal in many ways but it seems to focus on personal responsibility. Maybe it's something to with confession? :rolleyes:

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #49
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    Irish = Catholic bullsh1t alert

    Where did the poster equate both?


  • #50
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Four pages on this subject and nobody has mentioned Max Weber...


  • #51
    latenia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭latenia


    If those 'Lutheran' countries are so great, how come I wouldn't live in any of them if you paid me? Finland, Sweden or Iceland vs Spain, Italy or France?


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  • #52
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Four pages on this subject and nobody has mentioned Max Weber...

    How dare you overestimate us like that, sir!

    What about Lex Luther? He was a bit of a bad ass and tremendously wealthy.


  • #53
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    why are proddy countries in a better shape?

    well its very simple.......

    Protestants are .........good

    Catholics are ...........bad

    ;)


  • #54
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Obligatory Monty Python video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DkqU-uWojc

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #55
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    Fairly vicious sectarianism from our Monthy Python friends.


  • #56
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    they take the mickey out of all religons


  • #57
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    fryup wrote: »
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    they take the mickey out of all religons

    My understanding is that there has never been a Python sketch where they wiped their arses with the Koran. You got a link?


  • #58
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    FatherLen wrote: »
    religion does not make a difference in economics

    It kinda does actually. Maybe not directly to economics but certainly to the attitude of the workforce. Proddies tend to have a different work ethic to Taigs. They seem to strive for regimentality and focus. Catholics seem to be more laid back or suspicious of success (guilt and all that crap)


  • #59
    Lawrence1895
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭Lawrence1895


    The line drawn between politics/state matters and religion is much clearer in Germany, meaning none of the two main religions has any vital influence (compared to Ireland) on how the state is run.


  • #60
    johnmcdnl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    and how many of the bankers/developers are devout catholics :rolleyes:

    and how the **** does it matter anyways - it's not like catholic teaching advocates greed and wealth does it :confused: if catholicism came into it then we wouldn't have been greedy and bought bungalows for a million euro and such...


    so in reply to OP - i blame the atheists and non practicing catholics for the state we're in - if we all actually did what jesus told us we wouldn't' have been so greedy and we'd be in a grand position today


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  • #61
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Rabble Rabble wrote: »
    My understanding is that there has never been a Python sketch where they wiped their arses with the Koran. You got a link?

    Well it wasn't a big topic in the 80's, one ripe for social satire but anyway, wow, just wow!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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