Lutheran countries are in better shape

whiteonion

You can't ignore the fact that Lutheran countries are in much better shape than Catholic countries. Is there any Catholic country in good shape at the moment? The closest thing to be in "good shape" is probably France and I wouldn't say that they are in good shape. Ireland should learn from the Lutheran countries and become more like them so it can be great again. I don't say that everyone should convert to Lutheranism, but we should replace Catholic morals with Lutheran ones. Lutherans are much less tolerant of corruption and other bad sides of human nature. For some reason Catholics are willing to accept corruption.

Gunsfortoys

:rolleyes:

Predator_

Anti Irish Catholic troll alert

4zn76tysfajdxp

whiteonion wrote: »

Lutherans are much less tolerant of corruption

Dunno about that. My girlfriend's Lutheran and she's corrupted pretty good.

pickarooney

Brazil, one of the biggest emerging economies in the world, is largely Roman Catholic.

Ghost Buster

Predator_ wrote: »

Anti Irish Catholic troll alert

Irish = Catholic bullsh1t alert

whiteonion

pickarooney wrote: »

Brazil, one of the biggest emerging economies in the world, is largely Roman Catholic.

I'd prefer Germany every day over the violent country that is Brazil. It still suffers from widespread poverty and a high rate of crime. I think China is safer than Brazil.

Captain Darling

Why should organised religion come into it at all?

Its for suckers.

pickarooney

whiteonion wrote: »

I'd prefer Germany every day over the violent country that is Brazil. It still suffers from widespread poverty and a high rate of crime. I think China is safer than Brazil.

But Ireland doesn't have widespread poverty or a high crime rate. What's your criteria for 'better shape'? Something like Iceland?

super_furry

How's Namibia doing?

Tabnabs

Probably all the Catholics in Germany that make it such a powerhouse.

But then you did know that there are just 7% fewer Catholic's than Protestants in Germany didn't you...

FatherLen

religion does not make a difference in economics

Captain Darling

FatherLen wrote: »

religion does not make a difference in economics

That would be an ecumenical matter, Father.

CokaColumbo

We need some good old fashioned Presbylutheranism to get us out of the recession!

whiteonion

I would want a state without any official religion... it should not endorse any single religion.

Sanjuro

Yeah, that's just what this country... or any country needs. Stronger ties between church and state. :rolleyes:

My name is URL

whiteonion wrote: »

we should replace Catholic morals with Lutheran ones

Why? Can people not have morals which are not based on religious teaching?

SafeSurfer

Yeah the Lutherans of China are the backbone of it's economy.

Austria, Luxembourg and Switzerland are majority catholic and are in pretty good shape.

suicide_circus

Bayern (southern German state, capital Munich) is traditionally one of the wealthiest Bundesländer while also being the bastion of catholicism in Germany.

Snakeblood

I've been ignoring it for years.

galah

suicide_circus wrote: »

Bayern (southern German state, capital Munich) is traditionally one of the wealthiest Bundesländer while also being the bastion of catholicism in Germany.

excatly. While Schleswig-Holstein, a pretty much pure protestant county, is not doing well at all. Although maybe the North-South divide comes into play here as well?

DrumSteve

Religion eh? Bloody hell.

sollar

I agree with you the catholic church is not good news. Catholic guilt, anything goes wrong - pray, the church knows best etc etc.

Logical Fallacy

whiteonion wrote: »

You can't ignore the fact that Lutheran countries are in much better shape than Catholic countries. Is there any Catholic country in good shape at the moment? The closest thing to be in "good shape" is probably France and I wouldn't say that they are in good shape. Ireland should learn from the Lutheran countries and become more like them so it can be great again. I don't say that everyone should convert to Lutheranism, but we should replace Catholic morals with Lutheran ones. Lutherans are much less tolerant of corruption and other bad sides of human nature. For some reason Catholics are willing to accept corruption.

Do you have anything to back this up or are you just gonna babble?

CokaColumbo

Please tell me that people aren't actually taking this thread seriously.

pickarooney

FatherLen wrote: »

religion does not make a difference in economics

Maybe it does a bit. Holland's legendary parsimony is usually tied in with its Protestant mores. Then again, nobody gives a toss about religion there any more.

ejmaztec

CokaColumbo wrote: »

Please tell me that people aren't actually taking this thread seriously.

It's another failed attempt at getting us all into a bit of a pickle.

OneArt

It makes sense I guess, though I think in this day and age the 'state' religion shouldn't really be figured into it.

And anyway, a good economy doesn't necessarily mean a good country. They just have a lot of money. Ireland was wealthy and it was still a sh!thole.

mike65

The biggest differences can be seen in the official corruption stats for europe, basicly northern Europe won't demand a pay off to avoid a fine Southern Europe will. Obviously its not a 100% correlation.

# 1 Iceland: 9.7
= 2 Finland: 9.6

# 4 Denmark: 9.5

# 6 Sweden: 9.2
# 7 Switzerland: 9.1
# 8 Norway: 8.9

# 10 Austria: 8.7
= 11 United Kingdom: 8.6
= 11 Netherlands: 8.6
# 13 Luxembourg: 8.5

# 16 Germany:8.2

# 18 France: 7.5
= 19 Ireland: 7.4
= 19 Belgium: 7.4

# 23 Spain: 7

# 25 Malta: 6.6
# 26 Portugal: 6.5
# 27 Estonia: 6.4

# 31 Slovenia: 6.1


= 37 Cyprus: 5.7

= 40 Hungary: 5

= 40 Italy: 5

= 47 Slovakia: 4.3
= 47 Greece: 4.3

Corsendonk

mike65 wrote: »

The biggest differences can be seen in the official corruption stats for europe, basicly northern Europe won't demand a pay off to avoid a fine Southern Europe will. Obviously its not a 100% correlation.

# 1 Iceland: 9.7
= 2 Finland: 9.6

# 4 Denmark: 9.5

# 6 Sweden: 9.2
# 7 Switzerland: 9.1
# 8 Norway: 8.9

# 10 Austria: 8.7
= 11 United Kingdom: 8.6
= 11 Netherlands: 8.6
# 13 Luxembourg: 8.5

# 16 Germany:8.2

# 18 France: 7.5
= 19 Ireland: 7.4
= 19 Belgium: 7.4

# 23 Spain: 7

# 25 Malta: 6.6
# 26 Portugal: 6.5
# 27 Estonia: 6.4

# 31 Slovenia: 6.1


= 37 Cyprus: 5.7

= 40 Hungary: 5

= 40 Italy: 5

= 47 Slovakia: 4.3
= 47 Greece: 4.3

Interesting to note that No 1 is Iceland that also had a banking crisis, just proves that stupity also plays a part in banking collaspes not just corruption.

whiteonion

whiteonion wrote: »

Anti-Catholic trollololololololololololololoo........

In other news, countries with predominantly white-skinned citizens consistently make more per capita than ones with black-skinned citizens.

Is it against charter to say STFU trolling OP? If so, then I'll just go for "give over, you crazy OP. Do us all a favour and go soapbox someplace else."

sollar

Its like the saying - 'thats a bit more protestant' - when something is put right .

greendom

mike65 wrote: »

The biggest differences can be seen in the official corruption stats for europe, basicly northern Europe won't demand a pay off to avoid a fine Southern Europe will. Obviously its not a 100% correlation.

# 1 Iceland: 9.7
= 2 Finland: 9.6

# 4 Denmark: 9.5

# 6 Sweden: 9.2
# 7 Switzerland: 9.1
# 8 Norway: 8.9

# 10 Austria: 8.7
= 11 United Kingdom: 8.6
= 11 Netherlands: 8.6
# 13 Luxembourg: 8.5

# 16 Germany:8.2

# 18 France: 7.5
= 19 Ireland: 7.4
= 19 Belgium: 7.4

# 23 Spain: 7

# 25 Malta: 6.6
# 26 Portugal: 6.5
# 27 Estonia: 6.4

# 31 Slovenia: 6.1


= 37 Cyprus: 5.7

= 40 Hungary: 5

= 40 Italy: 5

= 47 Slovakia: 4.3
= 47 Greece: 4.3

How reliable are these stats ?

Dravokivich

whiteonion wrote: »

I would want a state without any official religion... it should not endorse any single religion.

Em.. you do realise France doesn't... right?

BornToBe?

FatherLen wrote: »

religion does not make a difference in economics

:rolleyes: Ahem.....Jewish Religion?

whiteonion

BornToBe? wrote: »

:rolleyes: Ahem.....Jewish Religion?

Are you some sort of antisemite?

CreepingDeath

Rangers could be bankrupt if a tax ruling goes against them...

Rangers future up in the air

Spunge

pickarooney wrote: »

Brazil, one of the biggest emerging economies in the world, is largely Roman Catholic.

Brazil is a dump

BornToBe?

whiteonion wrote: »

Are you some sort of antisemite?

No, just realistic, they did invent the banking system via a loop hole in their religion, so you could say, economics as everything to do with religion.

LumpyGravy

mike65 wrote: »

The biggest differences can be seen in the official corruption stats for europe, basicly northern Europe won't demand a pay off to avoid a fine Southern Europe will. Obviously its not a 100% correlation.

# 1 Iceland: 9.7
= 2 Finland: 9.6

# 4 Denmark: 9.5

# 6 Sweden: 9.2
# 7 Switzerland: 9.1
# 8 Norway: 8.9

# 10 Austria: 8.7
= 11 United Kingdom: 8.6
= 11 Netherlands: 8.6
# 13 Luxembourg: 8.5

# 16 Germany:8.2

# 18 France: 7.5
= 19 Ireland: 7.4
= 19 Belgium: 7.4

# 23 Spain: 7

# 25 Malta: 6.6
# 26 Portugal: 6.5
# 27 Estonia: 6.4

# 31 Slovenia: 6.1


= 37 Cyprus: 5.7

= 40 Hungary: 5

= 40 Italy: 5

= 47 Slovakia: 4.3
= 47 Greece: 4.3

Wouldn't call these official stats. It's taken from Transparency International's annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) and the ones quoted are from 2005.

For updated stat's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

greendom

LumpyGravy wrote: »

Wouldn't call these official stats. It's taken from Transparency International's annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) and the ones quoted are from 2005.

For updated stat's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

14th place - a few brown envelopes needed to get Ireland up so high me thinks

Rabble Rabble

The protestant > catholic meme in economics has been discussed before here. It doesn't stand up.

The protestant States of Northern Europe are doing well, now, in 2011. They weren't 5 years ago. In terms of long term growth the Catholic States of Southern America are catching up. Protestant Africa is generally in worse shape than Catholic Africa ( but French imperialism was much better than UK, or German).

As for being Catholic, Ireland is effectively Protestantised by now ( i.e. people tend to follow their own conscience on most things) and is tending towards secularisation.

So the theory does not hold, it is temporary in Europe, and not true worldwide.

Corruption is a different issue. There is a small correlation between Catholicism and corruption , relative to Protestantism. There is also a larger correlation between northern Europe and lack of corruption, vs the South. Similar west-east. And Europe as a whole is uncorrupt by world standards.

Ireland, is quite un-corrupt compared to some of our Southern neighbour's shenaghighans,

Cork boy 55

It's a question of timing

sweden and finland has severe crash in 1990(very like yours in cause and effect although not quite as bad in scale)
other examples of boom and bust as well in prod countries can go on.

etc etc etc

nonsense thread based a stupid premise

steddyeddy

BornToBe? wrote: »

No, just realistic, they did invent the banking system via a loop hole in their religion, so you could say, economics as everything to do with religion.

Actually thats bs they were only allowed to occupy certain high posistions in society and one of them was money lender, it wasnt a defacing of their religion for capital game.

K-9

Lutherans countries tend to be not big drinkers! Maybe that's it.

Dudess

The OP posts some amount of junk, but it's a fair point - perhaps not so relevant today, but historically it has a degree of sense to it. So many staunchly catholic countries/areas have experienced, and still do, enormous poverty. Goes back to the notion of the protestant ethic - being frugal and modest with your money, not blowing a load of it on a diamond-encrusted bishop's crozier. Flashy **** like that was one of the things that led to the Reformation in the first place.

stoneill

Why Lutherian?
Isn't the religious and moral ethos very similar for Reformationist, Anglican, Methodist, Presperterians and other Protestant faiths?

K-9

Dudess wrote: »

The OP posts some amount of junk, but it's a fair point - perhaps not so relevant today, but historically it has a degree of sense to it. So many staunchly catholic countries/areas have experienced, and still do, enormous poverty. Goes back to the notion of the protestant ethic - being frugal and modest with your money, not blowing a load of it on a diamond-encrusted bishop's crozier. Flashy **** like that was one of the things that led to the Reformation in the first place.

Sweden would be very Lutheran in philosophy. Quite liberal in many ways but it seems to focus on personal responsibility. Maybe it's something to with confession? :rolleyes:

Dionysus

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Irish = Catholic bullsh1t alert

Where did the poster equate both?

Dionysus

Four pages on this subject and nobody has mentioned Max Weber...

latenia

If those 'Lutheran' countries are so great, how come I wouldn't live in any of them if you paid me? Finland, Sweden or Iceland vs Spain, Italy or France?