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The Leaving Cert Is A Form Of Slavery

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Comments

  • #92
    UsernameInUse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    Novella wrote: »
    The Leaving Cert restricts people from doing what they want to do in life? I wanted to do Medicine when I finished school but I didn't get the points. I was devastated and went on to do something I liked, but didn't really love and subsequently dropped out of. Medicine is still my dream, but due to health issues, study is on hold for me atm, but I will get there some day.

    The Leaving Cert is not, by any means at all, what stops people from doing what they want in life. What stops people, plain and simple, is something entirely different and that's called laziness. If a person wants something badly enough, they won't sit around making excuses about not being able to do it, especially shit ones like your argument.

    Awesome point.

    Better do great in geography and history or else you won't be able to do medicine. :rolleyes:
    Let's face it - the system needs an overhaul. Nobody can't accept that.


  • #93
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Lyra Fangs wrote: »
    I beg to differ. Irish is definitely compulsory why else would so many threads here be discussing whether irish should be made non-compulsory or not and why would people who are non-nationals or have a learning disability have to apply for an exemption.

    I disagree.

    The SEC isn't going to hold a gun to your head, in fairness. Even if you are registered for LC Irish, just don't sit the exam. Won't show up on your school rap sheet then. Again, the SEC does NOT impose compulsory subjects, that is policy dictated by schools and colleges.


  • #94
    Lyra Fangs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Lyra Fangs


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    That's all fine and well for people who are academic and have clear and well defined aims. The problem is that the majority of secondary school students do not have clear or well defined aims.

    I realise that and I was in that situation myself hell I'm still not sure if the course I'm doing was the right choice. My point is that I would rather learn something that was relevant to college while still being uncertain what I wanted to do than learn something completely irrelevant to college, for example despite my course involving a lot of essay writing it is completely different to what I did in lc english, again while still being uncertain.

    When I started college I was so afraid I'd picked the wrong course and I wasn't sure if I liked it which really wasn't helped by the fact that nothing I did in sec school that could have prepared me for the course and made things a little bit easier. Instead I had to do everything from scratch by myself and you could say 'this will be the making of me' or 'get used to life' but then what was the point of going to sec school for 6 years??


  • #95
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    UsernameInUse wrote: »
    Getting paid to work, no. Getting paid for your work and then taking it from you by force, yes. You are somehow under the impression that wages and tax go hand in hand?!
    We cannot sustain a centralised system of order without tax. You may argue that we do not need a centralised system of order, we do however. Look at Somalia for an example of a country without government.


  • #96
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Naikon wrote: »
    I disagree.

    The SEC isn't going to hold a gun to your head, in fairness. Even if you are registered for LC Irish, just don't sit the exam. Won't show up on your school rap sheet then. Again, the SEC does not impose compulsory subjects, that is policy dictated by schools and colleges.
    Why would you not sit the exam if you've taken Irish for five classes a week for two years? That and without Irish you have little hope of getting a university offer.


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  • #97
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    That and without Irish you have little hope of getting a university offer.

    You know there are plenty of other avenues of third level education open to students apart from University (and Universities outside RoI will still accept you)

    Not everyone can (or should) go to university.
    Naikon wrote: »
    The SEC isn't going to hold a gun to your head, in fairness. Even if you are registered for LC Irish, just don't sit the exam. Won't show up on your school rap sheet then. Again, the SEC does NOT impose compulsory subjects, that is policy dictated by schools and colleges.

    Unfortunately very students are made aware of this.


  • #98
    UsernameInUse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    We cannot sustain a centralised system of order without tax. You may argue that we do not need a centralised system of order, we do however. Look at Somalia for an example of a country without government.

    I can't make the connection between no centralised system and Somalia?

    No centralised system doesn't literally mean anarchy, you know.


  • #99
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Why would you not sit the exam if you've taken Irish for five classes a week for two years? That and without Irish you have little hope of getting a university offer.

    Who said I took Irish for five classes a week for two years:pac:? I used that time for studying other subjects. Besides, you don't actually "need" Irish to get into University. At least not through the backdoors.

    1: Go to regional IT
    2: Do well for a year
    3: Apply for direct entry to second year in a University
    4: ???????
    5: profit!


  • #100
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Unfortunately very students are made aware of this.

    Intentionally so I think. It amazes me how people will just blindly accept a lie for fact.


  • #101
    Lyra Fangs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Lyra Fangs


    Naikon wrote: »
    I disagree.

    The SEC isn't going to hold a gun to your head, in fairness. Even if you are registered for LC Irish, just don't sit the exam. Won't show up on your school rap sheet then. Again, the SEC does not impose compulsory subjects, that is policy dictated by schools and colleges.

    I did pass irish for Lc so I didn't count it as one of my six but lets say I did honours instead. If I don't show up for the exam then I will fail, will get zero marks and it'll reduce my possible lc points by at least 40 points (assuming you get an A1 in your seventh and only pass subject if you don't do all honours but then why do honours irish if you don't show up).

    Let's say you do pass irish like me and you don't show up, that doesnt mean it's not compulsory. You still had to attend class, do your homework and you were expected to turn up for the test. And as far as I'm aware it is the dept of ed that impose compulsory irish so it's out of the schools hands.


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  • #102
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The leaving cert points race is a f*cking ridiculous method of allocating college places.

    Oh sure, my talent in a veterinarian course is surely going to be indicated by how well I can memorize lists of quotes for a Classics exam.

    And I'm sure my performance as a journalism student will be absolutely prophesied by whether or not I can remember how do differentiate squares.

    We BADLY need a subject-relevant college admissions system. The current system is an absolute joke. Allocating points for any subject done and taking the hgihest 50 (or whatever) candidates is absurd. It should be based on how well you do in subjects which are specifically related to your degree.

    It's an absolute shambles that someone who gets an A1 in English can be beaten to an English course by somone who gets a D3 just because they managed to get As and Bs in maths, 2 science subjects and French, therefore beating the highest English result in the country on points in pb[irrelevant[/b] subjects. :confused:


  • #103
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Lyra Fangs wrote: »
    Let's say you do pass irish like me and you don't show up, that doesnt mean it's not compulsory. You still had to attend class, do your homework and you were expected to turn up for the test. And as far as I'm aware it is the dept of ed that impose compulsory irish so it's out of the schools hands.

    School policy ≠ State Examination Policy.

    Why would the SEC even care? In their eyes, you may aswell have sat at home drinking for six years. They don't care about your school profile. Last time I checked, the LC does not take anything but what you produce on the page for that given day into account.


  • #104
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Naikon wrote: »
    School policy =/= State Examination Policy.

    Why would the SEC even care? In their eyes, you could have sat at home drinking for six years. Last time I checked, the LC does not take anything but what you produce on the page for that given day into account.

    There is some requirement to have attended classes in a subject before one can sit an exam IIRC.

    Its a stupid requirement IMNSHO a person (of any age) should be able to walk in off the street. Pay the applicable fee and sit the exam if the notion takes them.


  • #105
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    There is some requirement to have attended classes in a subject before one can sit an exam IIRC.

    Not if you take the exam as an external candidate:pac: No affiliation with the school, no school imposed rules. Wish I had taken that route.

    Sure, it's stupid if you haven't done a lick you can just sit an exam, but in the end, the SEC gets their money regardless. No biggie.


  • #106
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Naikon wrote: »
    There are no compulsory subjects for the LC, despite the misinformation from people who should know better. I figured this out at 16, why can't professional journalists? It's not a secret/rocket science or anything, I swear!

    I'm pretty sure all 3 are the core subjects.


  • #107
    R0ot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    The Leaving Cert is awesome however I would never ever do it again.


  • #108
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Chaotic_Forces wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure all 3 are the core subjects.

    As defined by individual school policy for the purpose of matriculation to Irish Universities/Colleges, you would be correct. Otherwise, no.


  • #109
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Naikon wrote: »
    As defined by individual school policy for the purpose of matriculation to Irish Universities/Colleges, you would be correct. Otherwise, no.

    But you'd be hard pressed to find a school that doesn't force you to sit all 3


  • #110
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Chaotic_Forces wrote: »
    But you'd be hard pressed to find a school that doesn't force you to sit all 3

    I agree, yet has nothing to do with the argument I made. The SEC don't enforce compulsory subjects. End of. No matter how much your mother, friend, teacher, priest, media or anyone else tells you to the contrary.


  • #111
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Naikon wrote: »
    I agree, yet has nothing to do with the argument I made. The SEC don't enforce compulsory subjects. End of. No matter how much your mother, friend, teacher, priest, media or anyone else tells you to the contrary.

    Okay look, shut up. I was merely asking. No need to jump down my throat like that.


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  • #112
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    The amount of rubbish being peddled in this thread is unbelievable.

    I don't know when all of you sat your Leaving Cert but I am sitting mine this year. I can tell you with utmost surety that getting an A1 in ANY subject by just rote learning is incredibly difficult if not impossible.

    The people who memorise essays and answers do not do well in the Leaving Cert. They may pass and they may even get a C or perhaps even a low B but nothing more than that.

    Do a maths question from 20 years ago and compare it to one today. No comparison whatsoever.


  • #113
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    Do a maths question from 20 years ago and compare it to one today. No comparison whatsoever.
    Strangely enough, just today I did a calculus question from 1991. It was no more difficult than recent exams. In fact, it seemed slightly easier.


  • #114
    emeraldstar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,383 ✭✭✭emeraldstar


    briano wrote: »
    ahahahahaahahahaha

    Sorry, I only got that far, brilliant. You have made my day.
    Glad I could help :pac:


  • #115
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Strangely enough, just today I did a calculus question from 1991. It was no more difficult than recent exams. In fact, it seemed slightly easier.

    :rolleyes:


  • #116
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    The system is far from perfect, and it does encourage remembering over actual understanding, which isn't right. However, there should not be fees. I'm in university now, and I wouldn't be here if there had been fees. I just did the bit of work I had to do to get here and now I'm doing something I want to do. Everyone deserves a third level education (in my opinion) and that's not something the under privileged should be excluded from just because a bunch of rich kids don't like the system cos it makes them work too hard. It's two years, get over it and just do the work.


  • #117
    languagenerd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭languagenerd


    Guys, everyone who's saying "Missing out on [course] cause they got a C in [irrelevant subject]" - that's the CAO & the points system, not the Leaving Cert!

    The two are technically exclusive. The CAO started points, it's actually nothing to do with the Leaving Cert or the SEC. A change to the LC is not the same as a change to the points system!

    I don't think the points system makes a lot of sense really, but that doesn't mean that the Leaving Cert doesn't.


  • #118
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    languagenerd wrote: »
    Guys, everyone who's saying "Missing out on [course] cause they got a C in [irrelevant] subject" - that's the CAO & the points system, not the Leaving Cert!

    The two are technically exclusive. The CAO started points, it's actually nothing to do with the Leaving Cert or the SEC. A change to the LC is not the same as a change to the points system!

    I don't think the points system makes a lot of sense really, but that doesn't mean that the Leaving Cert doesn't.

    We know that but with the exception of English and Maths, it's basically "here, learn this book, okay you passed the course". I think English is the only course were you need to actually show a somewhat basic level of understanding. And Maths generally needs you to be able to actually understand things.


  • #119
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    Do a maths question from 20 years ago and compare it to one today. No comparison whatsoever.

    "When I was young, we had to do maths with our feet and we weren't even told what the question was! The paper was actually a bomb! And we had to get up at dawn and walk through the fields with no shoes to get to the exam centre!"
    :rolleyes:


  • #120
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    The real fail in this thread is this. You don't have to do the leaving cert. There are no laws forcing you to do it, it is fully legal to leave school at 16.


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  • #121
    languagenerd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭languagenerd


    Chaotic_Forces wrote: »
    We know that but with the exception of English and Maths, it's basically "here, learn this book, okay you passed the course". I think English is the only course were you need to actually show a somewhat basic level of understanding. And Maths generally needs you to be able to actually understand things.


    But like someone said earlier, that's a choice people make. I never learned off an essay (even though I did four languages) and I think with sciences you need to understand stuff as well to get a good mark.

    The point is, you get out what you put in. If you learn everything off, and forget it straight after, that's your choice. If you decide to engage with it, it'll stick to you.


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