Michael Lowry: are "the people of North Tipperary" utterly stupid?

K-9 · 31-03-2011 02:13PM

Frowzy wrote: »

Really, choice in North Tipp was dire.

TBH I don't care what people think of Lowry, that's his battle to fight, it's the title of the thread that piss*s me off, unless I missed them I didn't see a thread questioning the mental ability of Offaly people for vothing Cowen (big brother or little), or any other county for that matter.

It's a little strong IMO............

There have been plenty of threads criticising Cowen here. On politics there definitely were ones about Kerry and now that I think of it, one on here criticising 20% of the electorate in the Donegal bye election for voting FF.

I suppose people are surprised he keeps topping the poll there.

Frowzy · 31-03-2011 02:19PM

sensibleken wrote: »

Did he get anything done for the national interest

I think you may be a bit innocent if you think that everyone sitting in the Dáil today is totally interested in the "National Interest". If that were the case then we wouldn't need to be paying salaries to representatives from each county?

Everyone who canvassed in my area pointed out what they could do for this area. Surely it's the same everywhere.

I have a job because of Michael Lowry and I'm grateful for that, otherwise I'd still be working over in the UK because there was nothing here before.....

I hope we get a casino, racing track, hotel etc in North Tipp, whomever suggested it, cause I'm sick of having to drive to Dublin for everything on a motorway that doesn't even have a toliet to stop at.

If I think that Michael Lowry can make this happen then he will continue to get my vote.

jobs, jobs, jobs and a future for my children is what I'm interested in.....

Frowzy · 31-03-2011 02:21PM

GerM wrote: »

The irony was in the quote. You made a glaring grammatical error in a sentence claiming the people of north Tipperary aren't stupid.

Fair enough, I made a typo and didn't re-read before I posted. Must be a tribunal in here somewhere!!!

31-03-2011 02:21PM

tuxy wrote: »

I'm sure it's hard to understand if you are not from North Tipp and especially the Thurles area. Just about everyone knows someone who has been helped by Michael Lowey and the team he has working for him. No matter what issue you have if you contact Lowey about it you can be sure he will do his best to help you. I guess you could almost compare it to the way that large drug cartel bosses have been known to invest and develop their local community. Internationally they are considered monster while locally they are hero's.

On that note, the Kray twins were very popular in the east end of London. perhaps some of the g*b****es who are making sweeping generalisations on this thread should log on to a UK forum and open 'Are the people of East London utterly stupid?' thread. Oh i forgot, its only clever people who live in cities isnt it :rolleyes:

sensibleken · 31-03-2011 02:21PM

Frowzy wrote: »

I think you may be a bit innocent if you think that everyone sitting in the Dáil today is totally interested in the "National Interest". If that were the case then we wouldn't need to be paying salaries to representatives from each county?

Everyone who canvassed in my area pointed out what they could do for this area. Surely it's the same everywhere.

I have a job because of Michael Lowry and I'm grateful for that, otherwise I'd still be working over in the UK because there was nothing here before.....

I hope we get a casino, racing track, hotel etc in North Tipp, whomever suggested it, cause I'm sick of having to drive to Dublin for everything on a motorway that doesn't even have a toliet to stop at.

If I think that Michael Lowry can make this happen then he will continue to get my vote.

jobs, jobs, jobs and a future for my children is what I'm interested in.....

meanwhile me and you have to fork out the bill for his corruption. nice selfish attitude you have there.

if he wants to fix the roads or get a race track let him become a councillor, thats their job, his corrupt dealings however affect the entire country for the worse

GerM · 31-03-2011 02:22PM

Frowzy wrote: »

Lol, does my quote say that? I don't see it?

No, but it implies it. At the very least, it's diversionary insofar as indicating people should look at others before pointing the finger. You're not really substantiating your claim that the people of north Tipperary are not stupid. Luckily, I know this to be the case regardless and there is only a small minority that are stupid, equal to that anywhere else.

Several politicians have been mentioned including one in my own constituency who lost his seat. Your defence of Lowry is a poor reflection on those who voted for him.

no1beemerfan · 31-03-2011 02:23PM

I'd just like to state I live in Roscrea and didn't vote for him.

HHH · 31-03-2011 02:30PM

no1beemerfan wrote: »

I'd just like to state I live in Roscrea and didn't vote for him.

Same here. Never voted for him.

Frowzy · 31-03-2011 02:31PM

sensibleken wrote: »

meanwhile me and you have to fork out the bill for his corruption. nice selfish attitude you have there.

if he wants to fix the roads or get a race track let him become a councillor, thats their job, his corrupt dealings however affect the entire country for the worse

Yup, and I'm forking out for the mistakes by Bertie, Cowen and all the bankers. I'm also forking out for the cost of a tribunal who's findings can't be substantiated.

I'm also forking out for people who've never worked, people who won't work, people who abandoned their children, immigrants etc etc.

I fork out for road tax to build roads in Dublin.

The list is endless......

Frowzy · 31-03-2011 02:37PM

GerM wrote: »

Your defence of Lowry is a poor reflection on those who voted for him.

Frowzy wrote: »

TBH I don't care what people think of Lowry, that's his battle to fight, it's the title of the thread that piss*s me off, unless I missed them I didn't see a thread questioning the mental ability of Offaly people for vothing Cowen (big brother or little), or any other county for that matter.

It's a little strong IMO............

I'm not defending Lowry. As stated it's the assumption that because the people of North Tipperary exercised their right to vote as they see fit that they're being labelled as stupid.

So far I've been berated for grammer and typing errors. SMART!

Oh and BTW, I've already stated that I did vote for him. Not that I'm obliged to explain myself to you or anyone else. Are people angry at me becasue I think that the people of North Tipp aren't stupid or because of my decision to vote for him?

sensibleken · 31-03-2011 02:41PM

Frowzy wrote: »

Yup, and I'm forking out for the mistakes by Bertie, Cowen and all the bankers. I'm also forking out for the cost of a tribunal who's findings can't be substantiated.

I'm also forking out for people who've never worked, people who won't work, people who abandoned their children, immigrants etc etc.

I fork out for road tax to build roads in Dublin.

The list is endless......

so we should let bertie, cowen, lowry and the bankers carry on as normal should we?

Im not sure if youre trying to play the victimisation card or the 'sure everyone was at it card'

seamus · 31-03-2011 02:45PM

Frowzy wrote: »

Yup, and I'm forking out for the mistakes by Bertie, Cowen and all the bankers.

So because others were at it, that somehow means that Lowry was OK to be at it? Look, they're all scumbags. I don't understand why anyone, anywhere votes for any of these scumbags. "Sure everyone else was at it", is not justification enough.

I fork out for road tax to build roads in Dublin.

There are no roads in Tipp? Jaysus I didn't think the west was that badly off?

squod · 31-03-2011 02:48PM

sensibleken wrote: »

the 'sure everyone was at it card'

I'm betting that's it. Everyone is at it, so why not like. This country is so fucked because of this attitude. If people want career criminals to run the country and provide jobs then so be it. We'll have to rename the place little Columbia and have every decent person evacuated to some where else immediately.

ilovesleep · 31-03-2011 02:56PM

Anybody remaining in ireland this summer for holidaying? Dont go to tipperary.

Frowzy · 31-03-2011 02:59PM

I wonder if the Irish habit of reading between the lines is why things are as bad as they are???

I didn't say sure everyone else is at it so Lowry should do what he likes... They're someone else's words.

answers to some of the points below:

- I'm not a victim of anything. Only effect all this has on me is same as you, more tax to be paid....
- Seamus, roads in the MID-WEST are like the surface of the moon, we get a few shovels of stones on our roads every now and again, and that's no joke!
- Squod, again re-iterate, I didn't say it!!! I don't condone or berate anyone's behaviour, not that they'd care if I did. I don't consider myself important enough to crucify anyone for their actions. There is a judicial system for that, I only have an opinion same as you.

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 03:01PM

K-9 wrote: »

Really, the candidate in my constituency weren't that fantastic either but there are choices there. I can't see how Lowry could be a top 3 choice other than local, parish pump politics.

I don't think there can be any argument that Lowry's election and poll-topping performance is driven by parish-pump politics.

But isn't it the same more or less every constituency that elects an Independent? I mean, I doubt your average Independent voter is expecting their candidate to push through a new Bank Bailout policy or to reform the Health system.
Rather, they're looking for the hospital in their local town to be safeguarded or funding to be given to a jobs project nearby etc etc.

In North Tipp's case, Lowry is tainted goods, but (and it's a big one!) he has a high profile from his time as a minister, he has a strong electoral team (relative to most other Indos around the country) and he has a track record of getting funding for projects in his local area.
Those three factors combined will generally get you elected in Ireland.
Add to it the big leakage of FF votes (neither Tipp constituency returned a FF TD), and there were more than enough people willing to give Lowry the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like that it happened in my part of the country and even less so given the findings of Moriarty, but localism still rules the roost in most parts of Irish politics.
Here's hoping for change.......

squod · 31-03-2011 03:03PM

I get riled up by this. It's continual on this Island. Whether it's some Orange order space cadet voted in on the race hate card or some sweet talking TD lining his pockets with the proceeds of crime. It happens here. The people who can stop it include you.

sensibleken · 31-03-2011 03:05PM

9_Iron wrote: »

I don't think there can be any argument that Lowry's election and poll-topping performance is driven by parish-pump politics.

But isn't it the same more or less every constituency that elects an Independent? I mean, I doubt your average Independent voter is expecting their candidate to push through a new Bank Bailout policy or to reform the Health system.
Rather, they're looking for the hospital in their local town to be safeguarded or funding to be given to a jobs project nearby etc etc.
.......

I think thats exactly what average voters are expecting. the most important issue for everybody was jobs, economy, bailouts etc. most people have a bit of intelligence to realise that they are going to be decided on a national level and not because the local school has gotten a new GAA pitch.

some eeijits would see Ireland sink beneath the waves as long as their own little hamlet got the road resurfaced!

KrazeeEyezKilla · 31-03-2011 03:13PM

I don't think Dublin is immune from electing crooks but It's probably a bigger problem in rural Ireland as you can play the anti-Dub card, "it's that shower up in Dublin telling us what to do". The type of argument doesn't work as well in a capital city. Rural TD's can pretend to be anti-establishment even if it's complete bull$hit.

Gombeen politicians are supposed to be able to "get things done" but a lot of the things they give are basic entitlements that people should get anyway. Plus despite decades of electing these idiots people still complain about things like poor roads. If the local hero was so great why are there so many problems? There’s no point in getting a road built if you then support a Government who implements destructive policies.

squod · 31-03-2011 03:20PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

Anybody remaining in ireland this summer for holidaying? Dont go to tipperary.

I love Tipp. I only wish folks would stop voting for criminals in general.

9_Iron · 31-03-2011 03:25PM

sensibleken wrote: »

I think thats exactly what average voters are expecting. the most important issue for everybody was jobs, economy, bailouts etc. most people have a bit of intelligence to realise that they are going to be decided on a national level and not because the local school has gotten a new GAA pitch.

some eeijits would see Ireland sink beneath the waves as long as their own little hamlet got the road resurfaced!

I think the average Party voter is looking for their chosen party to get into government and implement their policies on the bailout/budget/health service etc.

If you vote Independent, you are, by and large, voting for someone who will have minimal/no impact on the big policy decisions (particularly in the face of the majority held by the current government).
What you are voting for, in many cases, is someone who has targeted a perceived injustice in their local constituency (again, it could be the impending closure of a hospital etc) and can gain a groundswell of support in that area.
If you need 8,000 votes to get elected, that sort of issue can be enough to get you over the line.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating a two-party system or first-past-the-post voting, as I value the input of a Joe Higgins or a Ming Flanagan in the chamber.
But I'd have to take the view that, by voting for an Independent in Ireland, you are putting a greater emphasis on local issues than on national ones, as that's where your candidates influence will be.

K-9 · 31-03-2011 03:41PM

9_Iron wrote: »

I don't think there can be any argument that Lowry's election and poll-topping performance is driven by parish-pump politics.

But isn't it the same more or less every constituency that elects an Independent? I mean, I doubt your average Independent voter is expecting their candidate to push through a new Bank Bailout policy or to reform the Health system.
Rather, they're looking for the hospital in their local town to be safeguarded or funding to be given to a jobs project nearby etc etc.

In North Tipp's case, Lowry is tainted goods, but (and it's a big one!) he has a high profile from his time as a minister, he has a strong electoral team (relative to most other Indos around the country) and he has a track record of getting funding for projects in his local area.
Those three factors combined will generally get you elected in Ireland.
Add to it the big leakage of FF votes (neither Tipp constituency returned a FF TD), and there were more than enough people willing to give Lowry the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like that it happened in my part of the country and even less so given the findings of Moriarty, but localism still rules the roost in most parts of Irish politics.
Here's hoping for change.......

Well they can be of some use, Tony Gregory eg.

SF probably is a protest vote to an extent as well as there was no real chance of them being in Government but they'd a good candidate up here. I can't imagine other constituencies being much worse than mine and there were choices, even a young FF candidate here ahead of Mary Coughlan!

GerM · 31-03-2011 04:06PM

Frowzy wrote: »

Are people angry at me becasue I think that the people of North Tipp aren't stupid or because of my decision to vote for him?

It's not from voting for him and nobody thinks the people of the region are any less intelligent than the people of Dublin or Donegal or Dungarvan. It's the making excuses and for what he did or trying to deflect attention from it. It's initially failing to see the wrong in what he did. You had to ask for proof that he was corrupt when the dogs on the street know it in the same way we all know it about Ahern, Callely and O'Donoghue. You even went so far as to say: "The only crooks IMO are the ones holding the tribunal".

This isn't just to yourself but to a large chunk of the populace. What chance does the country have when we have attitudes prevailing like this throughout the nation?

KeithAFC · 31-03-2011 04:07PM

Would be a long way to go to find out.

Frowzy · 31-03-2011 04:41PM

GerM wrote: »

"The only crooks IMO are the ones holding the tribunal".

This isn't just to yourself but to a large chunk of the populace. What chance does the country have when we have attitudes prevailing like this throughout the nation?

The clue is in the quote - i.e. IMO (in my opinion)

This is a forum, everyone has expressed an opinion. I take offence that you think that the state of the nation is because of my opinions.

I don't particularly like your attitude, but I'm not angry at you because of it, neither do I blame the state of the nation on it!

GerM · 31-03-2011 04:49PM

Frowzy wrote: »

This is a forum, everyone has expressed an opinion. I take offence that you think that the state of the nation is because of my opinions.

I don't think the opinions of you and like minded individuals is responsible for the state of the nation. I do believe that they are a hindrance to the recovery though. I think that's a valid argument. Putting corrupt, self serving individuals in office and wanting them to remain there will ultimately delay progress.

Frowzy · 31-03-2011 04:54PM

GerM wrote: »

I don't think the opinions of you and like minded individuals is responsible for the state of the nation. I do believe that they are a hindrance to the recovery though. I think that's a valid argument. Putting corrupt, self serving individuals in office and wanting them to remain there will ultimately delay progress.

The amount of Tax paid by my husband and I aren't a hindrance though, I suspect!

GerM · 31-03-2011 04:59PM

Frowzy wrote: »

The amount of Tax paid by my husband and I aren't a hindrance though, I suspect!

Um.... Ok?

steddyeddy · 31-03-2011 05:13PM

Frowzy wrote: »

Yup, and I'm forking out for the mistakes by Bertie, Cowen and all the bankers. I'm also forking out for the cost of a tribunal who's findings can't be substantiated.

I'm also forking out for people who've never worked, people who won't work, people who abandoned their children, immigrants etc etc.

I fork out for road tax to build roads in Dublin.

The list is endless......

The mistake you seem to be making is your continuing defense of him. Look at any of my previous threads and you'll find I slate anyone who insists on a continuing defense of haughey, bertie et all. Bertie is a self serving criminal along with lowry the difference is im not still defending bertie.

Mike 1972 · 31-03-2011 05:58PM

In fairness to the people of Tipperary the majority of the electorate probably wouldnt piss on him if he were on fire.

It is possible to "top the poll" in a three seat constituency with less than 30% of the vore

ScumLord wrote: »

George W. Bush, elected twice.

No he wasnt

Michael Lowry: are "the people of North Tipperary" utterly stupid?

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