Michael Lowry: are "the people of North Tipperary" utterly stupid?

Dionysus

Is anybody watching today's Irish-made programme on TV3? It's called Midweek.

They went to Tipperary to interview people there about what they thought of Lowry. The standard response (reiterated numerous times): "we love Michael Lowry" and "you should leave him and his family alone" and "It's just the Dublin media ganging up on Michael".

They brought one of Lowry's foot soldiers in and she continued on with this cult of Lowry: "the people of North Tipperary love Michael Lowry". When Anton Savage pointed out that Michael Lowry was forced to make a €1.4 million settlement with the Revenue Commissioners in 2007 when the McCracken Tribunal ruled that he had committed a criminal offence by evading tax on the money Ben Dunne bribed him with and, furthermore, hid the money in undeclared offshore accounts, this Lowry supporter blanked it and went on about how much Lowry was "loved" and how much he had done "for the people of North Tipperary".

Is there something in the water down there? Is there mass in-breeding? Is Michael Lowry Jackie Healy-Rea's sibling? This personality cult of "love" for a political leader is like something you'd find in Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan. Seriously embarrassing troglodyte nonsense coming out of that part of our country - made all the worse by the same people thinking Lowry, the criminal, is the victim here. Náire orthu go léir. Will this sort of blinkered idiotic thinking by Irish people ever end?


/rant over.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Blind loyalty rather than stupid. If they say him doing it, they still wouldn't think anything different.

Move to Tipperary forum....?

Dangerous Man

They're just plain old-fashioned scum, perhaps?

whydoibother?

Bitterly loyal is one way of putting it. Yes, while not from that constituency, I grew up only a few miles down the road. The person is always more important than the principles. It doesn't matter what on earth they've done, if you like the person, it's forgivable, and conversely if they're not popular, they'll never get credit for anything good. I never expect any objective assessment of anybody's actions, I treat it as a bonus on the rare occasions that I get it.

drunkmonkey

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Move to Tipperary forum....?

Move to Lifehacking forum...?

Pauleta

Twas the same with John O'Donoghue when he swindled hundreds of thousands in expenses. They went to his constituency and they were saying leave the man alone although they did vote him out.

ScumLord

TV3 could just be showing the interviews of people that love him just to wind everybody up.

whydoibother?

ScumLord wrote: »

TV3 could just be showing the interviews of people that love him just to wind everybody up.

I wish that was it, but they were out in great numbers on the streets of Thurles, supporting him during the week.

RobAMerc

Similarly I can ask the same of the people of Dublin. Are they stupid ? they not once but twice voted in the corrupt leader of a corrupt party - both Bertie and Charley were widely known to be bent and yet were always voted in with massive surpluses.

The thing is, Irish people couldn't give a fiddlers what their local representatives get up to as long as they look after them at a local level. Hence Lowry, Healy Rae, Bertie and Charlie - That's the way we are here, we get what we deserve end of.

CommuterIE

He had the audacity for the second time to defend his position again today in the dail... the man is a LIAR, A FRAUD, AND SERIOUSLY CORRUPT. How can we get him out of office... he said today that he had "a clear mandate from North Tip". This guy is un ****ing believable, just piss off now I say :mad:

landsleaving

whydoibother? wrote: »

The person is always more important than the principles. It doesn't matter what on earth they've done, if you like the person, it's forgivable, and conversely if they're not popular, they'll never get credit for anything good. I never expect any objective assessment of anybody's actions, I treat it as a bonus on the rare occasions that I get it.

No one's ever going to question why you chose that username now!

ScumLord

whydoibother? wrote: »

I wish that was it, but they were out in great numbers on the streets of Thurles, supporting him during the week.

The entire county? Or just a handful of people relatively speaking.

tuxy

I'm sure it's hard to understand if you are not from North Tipp and especially the Thurles area. Just about everyone knows someone who has been helped by Michael Lowey and the team he has working for him. No matter what issue you have if you contact Lowey about it you can be sure he will do his best to help you. I guess you could almost compare it to the way that large drug cartel bosses have been known to invest and develop their local community. Internationally they are considered monster while locally they are hero's.

squod

People voted FG overwhelmingly in the last election and they first thing the new shower do is go and buy some dodgy old bankrupt bank for over 5 times it's worth.

It's the voters fault............... stupid people shouldn't be allowed vote.

stovelid

It's easy to denigrate the people of Lowry's constituency but the notion is supporting politicians based on narrow self-interest is far wider than that.

whydoibother?

ScumLord wrote: »

The entire county? Or just a handful of people relatively speaking.

A few hundred, enough to make the news, but when you consider that the population of Thurles is only a few thousand and only a fraction of people with a given view will ever be moved to take to the streets, it's clear he has massive support. He topped the pole with two quotas in the election.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

TV3 could just be showing the interviews of people that love him just to wind everybody up.

I don't think so, Morning Ireland got a similar reception earlier in the week. He got a standing ovation for kicking the media out of a conference he was having.

HalloweenJack

My grandad's from outside Templemore and him and his family hate this twerp. He can't believe that people keep voting him in.

That said, him and his family are all FFers.

sock puppet

Calling people stupid isn't really the way to get through to them.

ScumLord

whydoibother? wrote: »

A few hundred, enough to make the news, but when you consider that the population of Thurles is only a few thousand and only a fraction of people with a given view will ever be moved to take to the streets, it's clear he has massive support. He topped the pole with two quotas in the election.

Karsini wrote: »

I don't think so, Morning Ireland got a similar reception earlier in the week. He got a standing ovation for kicking the media out of a conference he was having.

He has very loyal supporters and I'm sure they'll travel far and wide to help him but the press is following this group and I don't think they're giving a a complete picture, especially seeing as it's TV3 they're the TV version of the dailymail.

Maybe everyone in Tipp does support him blindly, I just it's unlikely.

P_1

I can see the logic in the folk of North Tipp electing Lowry in the last few elections, afterall the likely Dail was going to be tight and having an independent TD (Lowry) fighting your corner as their vote for the government would only be good for North Tipp.

However, the dogs on the street could tell you that the current Dail would have a massive majority government and independent TDs would only be good for offering some comic value on VB and the likes. So in essence you could call the people of North Tipp utterly stupid for electing Lowry in 2011.


TL;DR
2007 election, Lowry can bring goodies back to North Tipp, electing him makes sense.
2011 election, Lowry can bring SFA back to North Tipp, electing him makes no sense.

BrockSamson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl8OIZijjY

this clip explains alot

goose2005

sock puppet wrote: »

Calling people stupid isn't really the way to get through to them.

But I've been on the Internet for ten years, it's all I know how to do...

.same.

Dionysus wrote: »

Is anybody watching today's Irish-made programme on TV3? It's called Midweek.

They went to Tipperary to interview people there about what they thought of Lowry. The standard response (reiterated numerous times): "we love Michael Lowry" and "you should leave him and his family alone" and "It's just the Dublin media ganging up on Michael".

They brought one of Lowry's foot soldiers in and she continued on with this cult of Lowry: "the people of North Tipperary love Michael Lowry". When Anton Savage pointed out that Michael Lowry was forced to make a €1.4 million settlement with the Revenue Commissioners in 2007 when the McCracken Tribunal ruled that he had committed a criminal offence by evading tax on the money Ben Dunne bribed him with and, furthermore, hid the money in undeclared offshore accounts, this Lowry supporter blanked it and went on about how much Lowry was "loved" and how much he had done "for the people of North Tipperary".

Is there something in the water down there? Is there mass in-breeding? Is Michael Lowry Jackie Healy-Rea's sibling? This personality cult of "love" for a political leader is like something you'd find in Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan. Seriously embarrassing troglodyte nonsense coming out of that part of our country - made all the worse by the same people thinking Lowry, the criminal, is the victim here. Náire orthu go léir. Will this sort of blinkered idiotic thinking by Irish people ever end?


/rant over.

Can you name for me the constituencies that would not vote in someone like lowry?

whydoibother?

ScumLord wrote: »

He has very loyal supporters and I'm sure they'll travel far and wide to help him but the press is following this group and I don't think they're giving a a complete picture, especially seeing as it's TV3 they're the TV version of the dailymail.

Maybe everyone in Tipp does support him blindly, I just it's unlikely.

Not everyone, I agree with you there, but I would think the majority. He certainly has an unreasonably high number of supporters remaining considering what he's done.

Ronin247

tuxy wrote: »

I'm sure it's hard to understand if you are not from North Tipp and especially the Thurles area. Just about everyone knows someone who has been helped by Michael Lowey and the team he has working for him. No matter what issue you have if you contact Lowey about it you can be sure he will do his best to help you. I guess you could almost compare it to the way that large drug cartel bosses have been known to invest and develop their local community. Internationally they are considered monster while locally they are hero's.

The problem is that Lowry and his ilk caused most of the problems.eg. You cant get your hospital treatment this year,you go to Lowry and you jump to the head of the queue.Lowry is a great fellow.
If politicians hadnt sold out your healthcare system and then blew all the money, there would be adequate healthcare for everyone but now people thank them for getting what was theirs in the first place.

This system works all across the country not just in Tipp.

steddyeddy

yes the people who blindly defend him are quite stupid

mikemac

Do you think this is confined to North Tipp OP?
And for the record, it's North Tipp-South Offaly these days. Includes Moneygall in Offaly which Obama claims to hail from. And other places in Offaly. Maybe change your thread title

The Pat Kenny show went to South Tipp where the voters expressed their support for Mattie McGrath, there is noone in Tipp North to match him

In Dublin Tony Gregory held the government for ransom for his voters in the flats and got hailed a hero
I forgot, he is a working class hero and everyone outside Dublin is a gombeen :rolleyes:

Also in Dublin, they voted in Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Bertie and CJ Haughey.
In Mayo they voted in P Flynn and his daughter

Not excusing what happening in Tipp North.
But away with your claims the electorate are stupid.
In the 2007 general election, Tipp North has the highest turnout in the country afaik and one of the highest in the country this time around.
The turnout is always high in Tipperary, one of the highest in the country.

I don't know where you are based OP but I've never labeled an entire constituency stupid

Paparazzo

It's sad, but "he fixed the road" is too close to reality

ScumLord

feelingstressed wrote: »

In Dublin Tony Gregory held the government for ransom for his voters in the flats and got hailed a hero

I don't know why people find this so unusual and confusing. He helped them and they like him for it, it's basic human behaviour. Most people don't see the government helping them so when they elect someone who does help them they are loyal supporter from then on.

If the government wasn't such a failure at the local level these guys wouldn't have an in.

squod

Paparazzo wrote: »

It's sad, but "he fixed the road" is too close to reality

Politicians don't even fix the roads in Meath.

mikemac

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know why people find this so unusual and confusing. He helped them and they like him for it, it's basic human behaviour. Most people don't see the government helping them so when they elect someone who does help them they are loyal supporter from then on.

I don't find it unusual at all

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

RobAMerc

feelingstressed wrote: »

I don't find it unusual at all

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

in fairness - people hate Lowry coz he's a crook.but I agree with your comparison of JHR and Gregory though - no difference.

P_1

feelingstressed wrote: »

I don't find it unusual at all

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

In a nutshell, yes

9_Iron

pithater1 wrote: »

I can see the logic in the folk of North Tipp electing Lowry in the last few elections, afterall the likely Dail was going to be tight and having an independent TD (Lowry) fighting your corner as their vote for the government would only be good for North Tipp.

However, the dogs on the street could tell you that the current Dail would have a massive majority government and independent TDs would only be good for offering some comic value on VB and the likes. So in essence you could call the people of North Tipp utterly stupid for electing Lowry in 2011.


TL;DR
2007 election, Lowry can bring goodies back to North Tipp, electing him makes sense.
2011 election, Lowry can bring SFA back to North Tipp, electing him makes no sense.

Er, not quite.......
I take it you don't recall the (persistent) talk of Fine Gael going it alone in government with the help of "like-minded" independents: if I recall correctly, that option only began to be ruled out once the exit polls made it obvious that FG would be in the mid-70s rather than 80+ seats and thus FG-Labour was the better option for a strong government.

I'm in Lowry's constituency (albeit one of the "blow-ins" due to the boundary changes), and I didn't vote for him because:
- I'm not keen on Independent representation and the localism/parish-pump politics it encourages; and
- he has far too much baggage attached (even before Moriarty)

Yet, I do have to wonder where people get off insulting entire electorates for their voting habits: Lowry has a very good electoral team around Thurles and beyond (his was the only Independent canvassing team that called to my house) and receives a very strong personal vote from people who like him for his efforts in the local community/because he's a local fellow made good/to stick two fingers up at the Dublin media or whatever.....
Feel free not to agree with their reasoning.

But less of the arrogance, condescension and 'holier than thou' attitudes please - it's pretty sad.

trackguy

In Ireland we have a remarkable tolerance for inepitude in our elected representatives.

If we contrast this with the US and the UK, who we see the most coverage of in our media, we are far more likely to put up with gob****es.

Why? A number of reasons,

We love 'a cute hoor.' Get one over the fat cats up in big smoke and all that...

There is no culture of resignation. Politicians seem to resign all the time in the UK, not here! 'Just ride it out Michael, they'll forget after a while'

This pains me to say it but there is an attitude throughout Irish life of 'Ah sure, it'll do.'

When it comes down to it, we just don't care enough to punish ignorance and dishonesty and seek out and promote honesty, hard work and competence.

9_Iron

whydoibother? wrote: »

A few hundred, enough to make the news, but when you consider that the population of Thurles is only a few thousand and only a fraction of people with a given view will ever be moved to take to the streets, it's clear he has massive support. He topped the pole with two quotas in the election.

Thurles is a town of 7,000, give or take, with another 1,000 in the hinterland, so a few hundred on the streets wouldn't strike me as massive support.
It is, however, his heartland and he clearly has some support there, though that is sure to have taken a hit given the recent revelations: some of his loyal supporters are probably unmoved by anything in the Moriarty report; others are likely to be less keen.

He was also nowhere near two quotas: he was 2,000 votes over the 12,000ish quota.

HalloweenJack

feelingstressed wrote: »

What I find confusing is Tony Gregory held up as some working class hero while Lowry and Jack Healy Rae are held up as gombeens
Holding the government to ransom must be only acceptable for TD's in Dublin

You're completely missing the point (maybe, deliberately).

It's nothing to do with where people come from. Lowry is a crook. He dodged tax and he abused his position of power for his own personal gain. If he was a Dub, he'd be getting as much stick as he is.

ScumLord

trackguy wrote: »

If we contrast this with the US and the UK, who we see the most coverage of in our media, we are far more likely to put up with gob****es.

George W. Bush, elected twice.

mikemac

trackguy wrote: »

If we contrast this with the US

I will agree with you that in the UK, politicans tend to resign over scandels

But the USA? You kidding me?
They invented the term "pork barrel" politics.
Where every army base and defence contract in their area is vital and needs funding.
Every bill and new idea can have local issues tacked onto it for support. Votes are for sale.

Ireland has issues but the USA is not something we want to model

ColeTrain

If he can build that casino then I'm sure all will be forgiven

Stinicker

Lowrys cronies and the morons in Kilgarvan in Kerry who support the Healy Raes. If ever the genepool of Ireland needed a good scrubbing it is both of these town. I think we offer up both the Healy Rae village and Lowrys losers to IAEA as possible test sites for Nuclear testing and various experiments of the f*cktard locals.

mikemac

Stinicker wrote: »

I think we offer up both the Healy Rae village and Lowrys losers to IAEA as possible test sites for Nuclear testing and various experiments of the f*cktard locals.

Better include the locals in the flats in Dublin Central. They elected Tony Gregory and held the government to ransom.

But can we do nuclear testing in Dublin Central

Stinicker

feelingstressed wrote: »

Better include the locals in the flats in Dublin Central. They elected Tony Gregory and held the government to ransom.

But can we do nuclear testing in Dublin Central

You cannot seriously be comparing Tony Gregory to both Lowry and the Healy Rae gangsters. The mind boggles

Nevermind_

If we sacrificed Lowry to the great spaghetti monster/Atari Jaguar in the sky do you think we could have Dermot Morgan back instead?
He'd have a field day with the current goings on in this country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKK8eAlASy4

Hunter Mahan

It is an embarrassment to the whole country the support he receives, any other politician would do the same for the county of Tipperary if elected.
They blindly follow a crook because he got them a medical card/fixed a road, it's pathetic, embarrassing and says a lot about the intellect and morals of the people who vote for him..

Dempsey

I'm going to vote for him in the next General Election just to piss off the d!ckheads in this thread.

BrockSamson

Dempsey wrote: »

I'm going to vote for him in the next General Election just to piss off the d!ckheads in this thread.

good god i hope your a troll :rolleyes:

Dempsey

BrockSamson wrote: »

good god i hope your a troll :rolleyes:

What squeaky clean politician did you vote for?

markesmith

Dempsey wrote: »

What squeaky clean politician did you vote for?

Even Dirty MacDirtson, the winner of durtiest politician in all of Dirtville (Thurles) would get my vote above Lowry.

It's voters like you, with your ironic sycophancy, that get this gombeen his seat.

9_Iron

Hunter Mahan wrote: »

They blindly follow a crook because he got them a medical card/fixed a road, it's pathetic, embarrassing and says a lot about the intellect and morals of the people who vote for him..

No, it doesn't.
I'd wager it says far more about the influence of localism on our political system and the fact that a TD doing good work for a (relatively) small area of a constituency will always give him/herself a strong chance of re-election.

For a start, I'd like to see fewer TDs, so that quotas become higher and being a great representative (a.k.a. fundraiser) for Thurles/Mallow/your choice of decent-sized county town won't be enough to get you in next time.
With any luck, a TD's performance on the national level would become more important to their chances of getting in again.