Everyone seems to want a 1 litre car !

ottostreet · 29-03-2011 09:09PM

kermitpwee wrote: »

Exactly my man:D If your not doing big mileage and too worried about the tax you can pick up some nice motors for buttons.

I'm doing big mileage, I just refuse to drive ****boxes. It's not safe to drive small engined cars.

There is something wrong with this country where a 318ci costs 4-5k, when the 330ci can be picked up for 2-3k. I'm using this as an example, as I recently picked up a 330ci for that price bracket. Bigger engined, more desirable, safer cars, are less expensive than their cheapy cheapy counterparts. And lads, thats ****ing depressing.

I had two cars for sale simultaneously recently. One was a rubbish 96 Audi A4 1.9TDI with no NCT and high mileage (190k miles). The other is a pristine 97 2 litre Mitsubishi FTO in immaculate condition, low mileage (70k miles), t/belt done, and NCT til end of 2012...Both were roughly around the same price bracket.

I've been rid of the Audi for over two months now and I'd say I got about 60-70 calls within a week.. The FTO...I've had about 5 calls/texts in total, including swap offers, and its still parked outside.

Matt Simis · 29-03-2011 09:42PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if your age profile allows you could easily buy an old 3 litre lexus for 2-3k and run it into the ground far cheaper than buying and running that yaris , very comfortable and no downside

Yes.. was just about to say this.
billyboy01, can you please explain to us how taking out a loan or flat out purchasing a brand new car (mid to high teens k Euro) to "save on tax and fuel" works out cheaper than buying any of the buttons cheap "super cars" available in Ireland in the 2-4k bracket?

The amount of times I hear this absurd reverse logic, I mean do people not know how to calculate any more?! If I practically gave you a 740i (4.4 V8) tomorrow for EUR2k and told you you could drive this everyday for say, 6years at the same cost of something woeful like a Yaris's (its got an "acclaimed" chassis Im told.. newsflash, an NSX has an acclaimed chassis)
purchase cost (not purchase plus fuel).. would you still feel you needed to spend more money to save less money?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

a german aquaintance was talking to me last week and asked did the irish have mental problems , I asked him why he thought that and he linked me to a bmw 740iL , an audi a8 and an ls400 - hes now tempted to get mates to break these cars and ship most of the parts to germany (especially e38 bmw's) because we sell whole cars for the price of the engine & running gear in germany

Guys in work have been asked by friends back home to start pricing German V8s and the like here with an eye to converting them to LHD back home and sell them at a profit vs their local market pricing. Yet people in Ireland still take out loans to buy Developing Market designed cars like the Tiida (anyone driving a Tiida reading this.. you realise it was made for Bombay salary and expectations right?).

29-03-2011 09:59PM

Matt Simis wrote: »

The amount of times I hear this absurd reverse logic, I mean do people not know how to calculate any more?! If I practically gave you a 740i (4.4 V8) tomorrow for EUR2k and told you you could drive this everyday for say, 6years at the same cost of something woeful like a Yaris's

6 years 740i tax will be 6 x €1566 = €9396

200 miles/week @ 25 mpg (1.50/litre) = €54.48/week
over 6 years that's €17,000

total tax and fuel = €26,396

Yaris
6 years Band B tax will be 6 x €156 = €936

200 miles/week @ 25 mpg (1.50/litre) = €34.05/week
over 6 years that's €10,625

total tax and fuel = €11,561

Guts of €15,000 over 6 years difference in motor tax and fuel, I'd hazard a guess a 10 to 16 year old 740i would be more expensive to maintain than a 0 to 6 year old Yaris.

The 740i would cost €2000 and the Yaris would cost €15,000.

Calculations indicate the Yaris would indeed save money as in 6 years time the 60K mile odd Yaris would be worth maybe €4000

I'd sooner have the 740i personally but over the 6 years some hefty maintenance bills will come along.

ottostreet · 29-03-2011 10:04PM

RoverJames wrote: »

6 years 740i tax will be 6 x €1566 = €9396

200 miles/week @ 25 mpg (1.50/litre) = €54.48/week
over 6 years that's €17,000

total tax and fuel = €26,396

Yaris
6 years Band B tax will be 6 x €156 = €936

200 miles/week @ 25 mpg (1.50/litre) = €34.05/week
over 6 years that's €10,625

total tax and fuel = €11,561

Guts of €15,000 over 6 years difference in motor tax and fuel, I'd hazard a guess a 10 to 16 year old 740i would be more expensive to maintain than a 0 to 6 year old Yaris.

The 740i would cost €2000 and the Yaris would cost €15,000.

Calculations indicate the Yaris would indeed save money as in 6 years time the 60K mile odd Yaris would be worth maybe €4000

I'd sooner have the 740i personally but over the 6 years some hefty maintenance bills will come along.

booooooo. Feck that though, it'd be several years before the Yaris started saving ya money.

P.C. · 29-03-2011 10:05PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

fuel efficiency is not the only factor in what makes a car good or bad. if petrol was cheap and road tax was free everyone who could afford to would roll round in 5 litre V8 / V12 beasts because deep down aside from all the costs everyone knows that a 1 litre car just isnt a good drive.

your 1 litre cars may suit the city but it doesnt suit long journeys , my 3 litre truck is great for long journeys and in the city (if you dont mind the fuel price) but I only go in to the city to make money so it weighs up

No, it is not. It is a pick up, and has very hard suspension. and not the best handeling.
Not my first choice of vehicle for a long trip. I would rather have a 1l comfortable small car than an uncomfortable pickup.

As far as 4X4s are concerned, there are plenty of capable vehicles that are not based on a pickup chassis. They are comfortable at motorway speeds, and do the job off road as well.

29-03-2011 10:06PM

P.C. wrote: »

No, it is not. It is a pick up, and has very hard suspension. and not the best handeling.
Not my first choice of vehicle for a long trip. I would rather have a 1l comfortable small car than an uncomfortable pickup.

In fairness the D max would be fairly rotten as a cruiser, it's as slow as most 1 litres too.

Eric Cartman · 29-03-2011 10:13PM

P.C. wrote: »

No, it is not. It is a pick up, and has very hard suspension. and not the best handeling.
Not my first choice of vehicle for a long trip. I would rather have a 1l comfortable small car than an uncomfortable pickup.

As far as 4X4s are concerned, there are plenty of capable vehicles that are not based on a pickup chassis. They are comfortable at motorway speeds, and do the job off road as well.

i find it rather comfortable, im under no illusion that other 4x4s are more comfortable , but we dont have any soft ride pickups in europe and I needed the seats, Id still rather be sitting in my roomy pickup which on our relativley smooth city and motorway roads is quite nice to drive at high and low speed rather than sitting in a tiny yaris revving the balls out of it at 120kph

P.C. · 29-03-2011 10:22PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

i find it rather comfortable, im under no illusion that other 4x4s are more comfortable , but we dont have any soft ride pickups in europe and I needed the seats, Id still rather be sitting in my roomy pickup which on our relativley smooth city and motorway roads is quite nice to drive at high and low speed rather than sitting in a tiny yaris revving the balls out of it at 120kph

There are no 'soft ride' pick ups anywhere.

What about a Subaru Forester?

Car comfort with very good 4X4 capability, and loads of space.

I know it is not a 1l car, but IMO it is still better than a pickup.

Eric Cartman · 29-03-2011 10:29PM

P.C. wrote: »

There are no 'soft ride' pick ups anywhere.

What about a Subaru Forester?

Car comfort with very good 4X4 capability, and loads of space.

I know it is not a 1l car, but IMO it is still better than a pickup.

cadillac escalade esv afaik

the forester is a lovely machine , as is the normal landcruiser, the older sorento (had one, was nice) and a vast array of other 4x4s , I need a commercial vehicle for work , I also need more than 2 seats, being under 25 I cant afford to insure 2 cars of a decent size so my commercial is my only vehicle. If we still had the old commercial laws (pre 2003) would have bought a 2nd hand amazon and put a bulkhead in. my point is that even my pickup is more comfortable than a little 1 litre car and far better from the point of overtaking and long distance driving

P.C. · 29-03-2011 10:37PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

cadillac escalade esv afaik

the forester is a lovely machine , as is the normal landcruiser, the older sorento (had one, was nice) and a vast array of other 4x4s , I need a commercial vehicle for work , I also need more than 2 seats, being under 25 I cant afford to insure 2 cars of a decent size so my commercial is my only vehicle. If we still had the old commercial laws (pre 2003) would have bought a 2nd hand amazon and put a bulkhead in. my point is that even my pickup is more comfortable than a little 1 litre car and far better from the point of overtaking and long distance driving

And my point is that it is not more comfortable.
Modern 1l cars are way more comfortable than a pickup, and they have all the creature comforts that you might need.

As for overtaking, it is a very rare thing in Ireland these days. In my experience (with cars) it has very little to do with engine size, and much more to do with the driver.

ottostreet · 29-03-2011 10:41PM

From what I remember of my spin in it, Eric's D-Max was very comfy. Even for a work vehicle.

Matt Simis · 29-03-2011 11:08PM

RoverJames wrote: »

6 years 740i tax will be 6 x €1566 = €9396

The 740i would cost €2000 and the Yaris would cost €15,000.

Calculations indicate the Yaris would indeed save money as in 6 years time the 60K mile odd Yaris would be worth maybe €4000

I'd sooner have the 740i personally but over the 6 years some hefty maintenance bills will come along.

Your calcs are all fine, but we were talking about an unreleased hybrid Yaris (or something else small) with a proposed price tag of nearer EUR20k!

29-03-2011 11:35PM

Matt Simis wrote: »

Your calcs are all fine, but we were talking about an unreleased hybrid Yaris (or something else small) with a proposed price tag of nearer EUR20k!

The hybrid Yaris was mentioned but the lad who mentioned it also mentioned the new Yaris petrol that will be released later this year. Me thinks that's what he is thinking of buying not the hybrid.

Wouldn't be into small eco boxes at all myself but when you sit down and do the sums, all in (tax, fuel, depreciation and maintenance) they are cheaper to keep in the road than an old 740i etc in the vast majority of cases.

Voodoomelon · 30-03-2011 12:07AM

Not to mention the fact that your 740i calculations are seriously on the conservative side, 25MPG, i'd like to see that. More like 18MPG-20MPG mixed, less in town.

Also, a €2k E38 is asking for trouble, you'd want to spend three times that for a decent example in good working order.

Not to mention maintenance costs, €200 a corner for tyres, ,massive servicing bills etc. A Yaris has never looked so good!

Only joking, gimme an E38 any day but i'd prepared to pay for it. A €100k car is always a €100k car, no two ways about it. A newer sh1tebox like a Yaris will always be cheaper to run in this country purely because their second hand prices are so artificially high.

30-03-2011 12:15AM

Yeah, I went with the 25mpg so as not to be seen to be favouring the eco box. And as you say two thousand wouldn't buy a decent one either.

Voodoomelon · 30-03-2011 12:23AM

Fact is though, if you do low mileage, even 5-6k miles a year and do your own servicing, you WILL save money over an €18k-€20k Yaris and have a far superior car.

But by their very nature, Yaris drivers aren't into cars, they want something new, dependable, reliable and warranted. Its two different ball games really, i wouldn't laugh at anyone for buying whatever they want if they have the money, just don't laugh at us for going the opposite route.

What gets my goat is people like us are "mad" for paying over €1k in tax, €100+ fuel bills and higher insurance cost and the Yaris driver is the sensible one.

BostonB · 30-03-2011 12:40AM

daddydick wrote: »

Absolutely no way I could drive a 1L car...i'd have no problem paying extra road tax and extra fuel for the sake of my sanity!

1L are for people who do a have a problem paying the extra. Either don't have it, or don't want to pay it.

We have an old 1L as a second car. I use it to commute when I'm not cycling. its almost never out of the city or above 60 km/h and does around 5k a year. There is no depreciation as its old, so its only the running costs. I can leave it anywhere in town, and bounce over all the speed ramps without a worry. Costs of repairs and parts isn't going to be anything like a BMW or Audi would be.

Last car was a 2L with sports suspension. Wasn't really any fun driving it around town tbh, heavy clutch, and it got a good few parking dinges. Needed top arms abiut 3 times in as many years. All it did was devour petrol with the fun of doing it.

People buying a new 1L or doing big distances, on big roads, are in a complete different situation.

bladebrew · 30-03-2011 12:41AM

i drive a 1.1 litre car, have had it nearly 4 years now, i spent most of my time in cork city so its fine for that, i drive cork to dublin a good bit and its not as bad as some people might say/think,

after my car loan was paid i was all set to get a mk5 golf, then i read the 0-60 times my 1.1 is 2 seconds faster to 60 than a 1.4 golf:eek:
and there is feck all diesels for sale because the irish went mad and now everyone has a diesel,
i know 0-60 isnt exactly vital but they managed to give a car 300cc extra and made it slower, that pissed me off so im staying 1.1 for a while yet,

sorry for the minor rant:)

x in the city · 30-03-2011 12:56AM

shawnee wrote: »

Have been talking to a few people who are considering changing their cars. Most are not into cars as such, but the buzz word seems to be a 1 litre. Even those who have families are talking about them. Its either that or the cheaper tax new cars, which are too expensive for many. Anyone else notice this. :rolleyes:

Id rather have my eye lids peeled up to my forehead and walk than drive a 1 litre car.

mondeo · 30-03-2011 01:35AM

My aunts sewing machine is a 1.0L. I'd have more thrills planning my own death then slamming the door behind me from somthing as unmanly and quare as a 1.0L. Some don't even have 4 cylinders ((shivers))

shawnee · 30-03-2011 09:19AM

I certainly have got you lot talking. My own experience is the 1 litre is grand for around town and those crazy tight , pay car parks where one squeezes to get out of a car. However for the long cruise , its nice to sit back and feel safe and comfortable in a bigee. Pity the motor tax costs here don't allow us to have a 2.5 litre or bigger for long drives.
The sooner they get rid of this motor tax and tax the fuel and the amount you're using the better. It would imho be a far more equitable system. For the moment though the Yaris is the top seller.:D:D in the secondhand market.

BostonB · 30-03-2011 10:27AM

I should add that in 11yrs and 80k all our 1L has required is regular oil changes filters, usual brake stuff, and a battery.

Matt Simis · 30-03-2011 10:29AM

shawnee wrote: »

its nice to sit back and feel safe and comfortable in a bigee. Pity the motor tax costs here don't allow us to have a 2.5 litre or bigger for long drives.
The sooner they get rid of this motor tax

1.01 litre Annual tax: EUR259
2.5litre Annual tax: EUR935

Difference over 365days: EUR676
Difference per month: EUR56
Difference per day: EUR2.00

So for people that say choose to use a Toll Road (one way) per day, they are already paying the tax costs of an engine 2.5times larger.
We have a 2.4Litre diesel that gets over 45MPG too, so its fueling costs are around the same as 50mpg Petrol 1litre car.
Hardly insurmountable figures were are dealing with here.

BostonB · 30-03-2011 10:59AM

Its still €676 regardless if its over the year. Tax & insurance on a 1L can be lot less than 676.

People in a small car are most likely not doing big mileage so fuel isn't the big issue. Its the total cost as everything is likely to be more expensive, tyres, repairs, servicing, insurance, depreciation, original purchase cost. It all adds up. Someone on a small budget isn't likely to be using a toll bridge everyday are they....

If you see the extra costs, as "surmountable" you're not really the target market are you?

Matt Simis · 30-03-2011 11:03AM

BostonB wrote: »

Its still €676 regardless if its over the year. Tax & insurance on a 1L can be lot less than 676.

People in a small car are most likely not doing big mileage so fuel isn't the big issue. Its the total cost as everything is likely to be more expensive, tyres, repairs, servicing, insurance, depreciation, original purchase cost. It all adds up. Someone on a small budget isn't likely to be using a toll bridge everyday are they....

If you see the extra costs, as "surmountable" you're not really the target market are you?

Im not talking about everyone, Im only referring to shawnee's post on driving longer miles and how tax alone is prohibiting larger engines, which I think it a little OTT.
The average (or at least "many") person in Ireland is driving stuff Golf size, costing them maybe 20k outright and 25k if on a loan over 5 years. They justify this by saying the tax is cheap and the fuel costs low. I know people that wouldnt entertain the idea of paying EUR1566 in tax as its "crazy" yet top up their car loan every year by EUR5000 to buy a later model Polo.
This is an inaccurate assessment of costing.

You mention depreciation.. the bigger old car depreciates a lot less than the new 1L car in hard cash terms. If mileage isnt a concern, then thats another blow to the 1L argument. Servicing can be a mixed bag, I doubt the 1.2/1.4 Turbo petrols and fancy newer DPF diesels are cheap to service either. On the flip side my dad had a 2.4litre Camry which require nothing other than Oil, filters and an AC condensor (a stone hit it) in 5years of high mileage.

BostonB · 30-03-2011 12:07PM

In isolation for that scenerio then fair enough. Ditto new car vs old luxo barge.

But where its an similar age 2L vs 1L the 1L will lose less, because it cost less. Also the 1L will be in greater demand for people looking for motoring on a shoestring. Because net overall costs are cheaper.

Its a good point that a lot of new fancier engines, will be more costly to maintain, repair, over time as theres simply more to go wrong. Theres other costs aswell, our other car a VW had the common VW fault of the ABS failing, which is a about 1K repair if not under warranty. Our 1L doesn't have it, so it can't fail. But its a NCT fail so its an issue for that reason alone.

Eoin · 30-03-2011 12:17PM

shawnee wrote: »

Pity the motor tax costs here don't allow us to have a 2.5 litre or bigger for long drives

OK, this won't go down well here, but you really don't need a 2.5 engine or bigger for long drives. I changed from a 2.5 petrol to 1.9 diesel before Christmas. Last weekend I covered about 450 miles on a variety of roads from nice motorways to back roads, and it was absolutely more than competent & comfortable.

I'm not saying that the tax isn't too high, or anything like that - just that there's a middle ground, whereas people seem to be taking two extremes here.

BostonB · 30-03-2011 12:22PM

Is nice to have not need to have.

Anan1 · 30-03-2011 12:32PM

Eoin wrote: »

I'm not saying that the tax isn't too high, or anything like that - just that there's a middle ground, whereas people seem to be taking two extremes here.

Personally, I think I prefer either extreme to the middle ground. I've always liked big engines, and I can have great craic in a FIAT Seicento - what would kill me is the likes of a 1.4l Golf/Octavia. On reflection, though, maybe that's the car - put that same engine in a 306 and it's fun again..

30-03-2011 12:55PM

I think folks are going a bit OTT about small cars being dangerously overpowered too, if the space is not there to overtake then one doesn't overtake. Any danger will come from the driver not the car.

For every €3000 luxo barge out there there is a €3000 small car that will be significantly cheaper to tax, fuel, maintain and possibly insure.

Fair enough if folks want to drive old big yokes but comparing the costs of them to new €20,000 motors bought on finance is as daft as the folk who splash out on new yolks reckoning motor tax on big yokes is silly expensive.

I remember pricing 4 shocks, discs and pads for a lad with an early 90s 7 series when I worked in a factors when the NCT era began, he nearly started crying.

Everyone seems to want a 1 litre car !

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