Everyone seems to want a 1 litre car !

Antikythera

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Not really no, not all cars have the same braking system thanks to weight difference, speed and so many more factors. I've upgraded my braking system to 'track-spec', the only thing I have to worry about is the person behind me and if they're able to stop before me

I'm sure you're a good driver but I repeat, any old car will do. If you are being tailgated (someone is tailgating in your example) then it's wise to increase your distance to the vehicle in front.

sentient_6

Antikythera wrote: »

Any car with brakes would do.

You completely missed the point, it's a question of how effective they'll be. Slow down enough so that when you crash its minor, or slow down enough that you avoid crashing?!

Midnight_EG

Antikythera wrote: »

I'm sure you're a good driver but I repeat, any old car will do. If you are being tailgated (someone is tailgating in your example) then it's wise to increase your distance to the vehicle in front.

Put my car beside yours on a private road, lead up to 120kmhr and stand on the brakes at the same time, you'll find my braking distance is probably half yours.

sentient_6 wrote: »

You completely missed the point, it's a question of how effective they'll be. Slow down enough so that when you crash its minor, or slow down enough that you avoid crashing?!

This is exactly what I mean.

Antikythera

sentient_6 wrote: »

You completely missed the point, it's a question of how effective they'll be. Slow down enough so that when you crash its minor, or slow down enough that you avoid crashing?!

Just anticipate! I completely grasp the point, I can assure you.

Antikythera

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Put my car beside yours on a private road, lead up to 120kmhr and stand on the brakes at the same time, you'll find my braking distance is probably half yours.

I bet my dick's bigger than yours though lol.

Seriously though, I never have a reason to 'stand' on my brakes, especially on the motorway.

Midnight_EG

Antikythera wrote: »

Seriously though, I never have a reason to 'stand' on my brakes, especially on the motorway.

And some people call me childish :rolleyes:



Even tapping my brakes will slow me down a ton within 2 seconds

Antikythera

Midnight_EG wrote: »

And some people call me childish :rolleyes:



Even tapping my brakes will slow me down a ton within 2 seconds

Proud of your magnificent car maybe, childish? I dunno.

Midnight_EG

Antikythera wrote: »

Proud of your magnificent car maybe, childish? I dunno.

I'd hardly call my car magnificent, it's nearly 13 years old :rolleyes:

johnos1984

Antikythera wrote: »

Seriously though, I never have a reason to 'stand' on my brakes, especially on the motorway.

You need to drive a bit more on them so.

I've had some close calls due to careless driving

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, Good New Everyone!
You can now buy a Passat with a 1.2 litre engine!
You will probably have to get a few friends to push it to get into motion before letting out the clutch, avoid hills and motorways but it might be great as a lawnmower.
What will be next?
The 600cc Phaeton, so the Irish can still their insatiable lust for the biggest car with the smallest engine?
http://www.autoholiks.com/2010/04/all-new-vw-passat-debutting-at-paris-motor-show/

Oh sh*t I just posted this in the middle of a playground fight.

BostonB

Antikythera wrote: »

Lol that fella is STANDING on his brakes!

You are using your engine for braking simply by coming off the gas.

The clip was showing, that people do unpredictable things, even on a motorway.

BostonB

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

...
What will be next? The 600cc Phaeton, so the Irish can still their insatiable lust for the biggest car with the smallest engine?...

Many people simply don't need a big engine. They aren't doing enough of that kinda driving, or aren't interested.

Ardennes1944

my old punto, i always thought it was nippy enough until i went to overtake a lorry on the ringaskiddy road one day, got up along side him and just couldnt get passed, range rover up my roll, slow lane almost ending, scary stuff. 1.4 astra, never got stuck for power as its quicker than most 1.4s, i would have no bother driving this car. get into trouble in a car with around that power/weight and your stupid and more than likely you'll keep getting into trouble no matter what car you have. i dont totally buy this whole having a small engined car is very dangerous anymore, know your car and its limits regarding overtaking abilities etc and you'll be fine, bar the inevitable insanity from having to stay behind lorries on country roads :P

Deja vu

Pdfile

ive no bother with big or small engines tbh as in reality i was only Really saving a wee bit in my 1 liter over the 1.6 civic ( no vtec pulls from me )


though to be fair... a swift is more fun then a crappy understeering shi-vic

Cuddlesworth

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Put my car beside yours on a private road, lead up to 120kmhr and stand on the brakes at the same time, you'll find my braking distance is probably half yours.


This is exactly what I mean.

Slap a set of warm super soft sports tires on his car and I doubt it. In fact his ability to brake would probably be better. Stopping distance has nothing to do with brakes now days on cars and track brakes only reduce brake fade during extended use.

keithclancy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Slap a set of warm super soft sports tires on his car and I doubt it. In fact his ability to brake would probably be better. Stopping distance has nothing to do with brakes now days on cars and track brakes only reduce brake fade during extended use.

I seriously doubt that.

Most 1 liter cars have drums on the back and tiny discs on the front.

On top of that allot of them aren't maintained at all, nobody knows how to check their pads for wear or if rotors need to be replaced.

Reminds me .. must replace brake fluid and sort out that rear rotor.

dr.fuzzenstein

BostonB wrote: »

Many people simply don't need a big engine. They aren't doing enough of that kinda driving, or aren't interested.

That's true, not everyone needs a 3.2 litre V6 or V8.
But considering that a 1.4 liter Golf or Focus is already WAY underpowered, I can't see how that thing will ever move.
Nothing wrong with small engines, but they should be in a small car, a 1.2 Passat is laughable.
The gaspedal should be a switch, on or off, because anything inbetween will never be used, get in, put brick on pedal and hope it reaches 80 km/h eventually.
And if you do that your fuel economy suffers.
Would be better to have a bigger engine that doesn't have to work that hard.
If I wanted a 1 liter I would buy the smallest car I could find.

Midnight_EG

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Slap a set of warm super soft sports tires on his car and I doubt it. In fact his ability to brake would probably be better. Stopping distance has nothing to do with brakes now days on cars and track brakes only reduce brake fade during extended use.

So you're telling me grooved disks, with a set of Carbon Lorraine RC6 (Competition Spec) won't stop me any better than my standard units?

Cuddlesworth

keithclancy wrote: »

I seriously doubt that.

Most 1 liter cars have drums on the back and tiny discs on the front.

On top of that allot of them aren't maintained at all, nobody knows how to check their pads for wear or if rotors need to be replaced.

Reminds me .. must replace brake fluid and sort out that rear rotor.

If you can lock the front wheels then you have reached the limits of your braking capacity. Little to none of your braking comes from the rear during hard braking. And I have yet to meet a 1-10 year old 1 liter car that I couldn't lock the front wheels on up to 120kph.

Better tires=better braking.

Cuddlesworth

Midnight_EG wrote: »

So you're telling me grooved disks, with a set of Carbon Lorraine RC6 (Competition Spec) won't stop me any better than my standard units?

I repeat again, if you can lock the tires then brakes are not the issue. And with modern front brakes in small cars you can lock the tires(or force ABS to kick in) at motorway speeds. Better brakes don't provide better grip and better grip is the real issue in stopping faster.

Mr Benevolent

Midnight_EG wrote: »

So you're telling me grooved disks, with a set of Carbon Lorraine RC6 (Competition Spec) won't stop me any better than my standard units?

Not on the road without a fair bit of warming up.

Midnight_EG

Confab wrote: »

Not on the road without a fair bit of warming up.

They don't need any warming up actually, the bite from cold is amazing!

The only issue I have is they're extremely loud :pac:

keithclancy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I repeat again, if you can lock the tires then brakes are not the issue. And with modern front brakes in small cars you can lock the tires(or force ABS to kick in) at motorway speeds. Better brakes don't provide better grip and better grip is the real issue in stopping faster.

Your right about Tyres.

But wrong about the Braking System, Its not just about ABS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_brakeforce_distribution

Typically, the front end carries the most weight and EBD distributes less braking pressure to the rear brakes so the rear brakes do not lock up and cause a skid.[3] In some systems, EBD distributes more braking pressure at the rear brakes during initial brake application before the effects of weight transfer become apparent.

For example, less braking pressure is needed to lock a wheel on ice than a wheel which is on bare asphalt. If the left wheels are on asphalt and the right wheels are on ice, during an emergency stop, ABS detects the right wheels about to lock and reduces braking force on the right wheels, helping to avoid lock-up and loss of vehicle control.

I learned this when driving a Bike, Back then front as the Weight pushes forward onto the forks.

On a road with varying quality (most Irish roads), your 1 liter Micra will be in a Ditch and my Volvo will have stopped well before hand.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

On a road with varying quality (most Irish roads), your 1 liter Micra will be in a Ditch and my Volvo will have stopped well before hand.

So what you are saying is that electronic brake assistance systems are what makes a "big" car stop better and not just that it has "bigger" brakes?

In that case would you agree a small 1 Litre car with the same electronic brake assistance systems, well maintained brakes and decent tyres will stop in a shorter distance than a car that weighs twice as much which has the same electronic braking assistance systems?

E39MSport

zilog_jones wrote: »

I just upgraded from a 1.3 ('98 Fiesta) to a 2 litre diesel ('02 406) last week.

Pros:
- Better fuel economy and cheaper fuel
- Infinitely more comfortable (I would be crippled after a 2 hour drive in the Feshty), aircon
- No more knees digging into my back when there's someone sitting behind me
- I don't feel like I'm taking my life into my hands when overtaking a bus at 100km/h
- 4 airbags instead of one, ABS, etc.

Cons:
- I'll be broke for the next few months
- Cheaper fuel and better mileage won't make up for the higher tax and higher maintenance costs
- French electrics

I'd rather spend that bit extra just to have something nice and enjoyable. Would love a V8 barge but couldn't possibly afford to run one right now, unless I lived in it!

Excellent - I'll throw in a nice sleeping bag. See you this evening


... oh, and 'No Offers'

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

In that case would you agree a small 1 Litre car with the same electronic brake assistance systems, well maintained brakes and decent tyres will stop in a shorter distance than a car that weighs twice as much which has the same electronic braking assistance systems?

Of course they would, if they have the same ratio of braking force to mass ratio.

However that is rarely the case, in my opinion

flash1080

keithclancy wrote: »

Of course they would, if they have the same ratio of braking force to mass ratio.

However that is rarely the case, in my opinion

+1. Some of the stuff posted in this thread is ridiculous.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

Of course they would, if they have the same ratio of braking force to mass ratio.

However that is rarely the case, in my opinion

I agree it is rarely the case.

However in my opinion we should only compare like with like and not make false generalisations about big cars having better breaks than small cars, in my opinion

flash1080 wrote:

+1. Some of the stuff posted in this thread is ridiculous.

How insightful of you, thanks for helping stimulate the debate :rolleyes:

Cuddlesworth

keithclancy wrote: »

Your right about Tyres.

But wrong about the Braking System, Its not just about ABS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_brakeforce_distribution





I learned this when driving a Bike, Back then front as the Weight pushes forward onto the forks.

On a road with varying quality (most Irish roads), your 1 liter Micra will be in a Ditch and my Volvo will have stopped well before hand.

I'm afraid I don't understand what your trying to put across. The weight is transferred to the front of the vehicle putting the front wheels in the position of the most grip and braking force. While the very moment of braking does allow both wheels to have a similar braking force, once the weight shifts the back wheels become negligible. The difference made by a system such as the one above would really only be marginal at best. The difference made by better tire choice would be huge. I learned this driving a bike where super sticky soft compounds are the norm across the larger faster bikes.