Irish heritage v. Being Irish

Chaotic_Forces · 28-03-2011 11:52PM

davyjose wrote: »

I think you should be more focused on the fact that your 3rd hand argument about "yanks", is so insubstantial and unresearched that rather than listening to an altenative argument, you throw up a catchall statement like "yeah and" rather than find think of a credible counter.

It's admirable that despite a complete absence of intellegence -- not even enough to attempt some kind of quasi-rebuttal -- you still make an attempt yo spar. I love how you switched up the ol "yeah and", and made it a "Yeah ... so". You're super-awesome, dude.

Name were I called them "yanks" please.

Duckworth_Luas · 29-03-2011 12:03AM

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Name were I called them "yanks" please.

Were when? :cool:

Chaotic_Forces · 29-03-2011 12:05AM

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Were when? :cool:

So much for any sort of debate then, eh? :rolleyes:

God... · 29-03-2011 12:08AM

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

So much for any sort of debate then, eh? :rolleyes:

Are you serious??? I actually love reading your posts they do be comical well done.

dr gonzo · 29-03-2011 12:10AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

a lot of these neighborhoods is stuck in this weird 1914 time warp.

More like a weird mix of that and 60's Ireland, i was in South Boston recently and its still an absolute RA town to an almighty degree. Its also something you'd do well not to bring up, or at least thats the impression i got.

Killer Wench · 29-03-2011 12:10AM

Well there goes the thread. No one can top God...

Duckworth_Luas · 29-03-2011 12:17AM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Well there goes the thread. No one can top God...

Nietzsche tried, but failed.

southsiderosie · 29-03-2011 12:26AM

dr gonzo wrote: »

More like a weird mix of that and 60's Ireland, i was in South Boston recently and its still an absolute RA town to an almighty degree. Its also something you'd do well not to bring up, or at least thats the impression i got.

I unfortunately live in Boston right now, and the whole Boston Irish thing slays me. Especially since I am as "Irish" as many of these people - not that they can tell since I am not, um, 'melanin-challenged'.

dr gonzo · 29-03-2011 12:45AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

I unfortunately live in Boston right now, and the whole Boston Irish thing slays me. Especially since I am as "Irish" as many of these people - not that they can tell since I am not, um, 'melanin-challenged'.

Do you have the accent though? it cant be argued with

My Bro lived in Boston for a few years and had very Irish american friends, it was mad. Its like they took everything they thought they knew about Irish people and multiplied it. I'd gotten off my fourth flight with the tiniest bit of sleep and was getting slagged for not drinking enough because im Irish but in actuality they just drink way too much, it was crazy.

PrincessLola · 29-03-2011 12:45AM

I dunno, its hard. I think the Irish problem is our low feelings of self worth as a nation, and when we see another country expressing affection towards us we don't really get it.
At the same time its a bit of a culture clash because Irish-Americans can never truly 'get' what it is to be born and raised here.

MARTINOZ · 29-03-2011 12:51AM

I am not sure why people are so bothered by it. Who cares if people claim to be Irish or want to associate themselves with being Irish? Why does it grate with people so much? Is it impinging on your lives that much if somebody wants to claim the same nationality as you? If it is, you need to check yourself, because there are some real issues going on everywhere around the world that you may have missed in the last while. The Irish have prospered in many countries around the world over the years - if people want to be part of the Irish culture, let them I say. The more the merrier.

Chaotic_Forces · 29-03-2011 12:54AM

MARTINOZ wrote: »

I am not sure why people are so bothered by it. Who cares if people claim to be Irish or want to associate themselves with being Irish? Why does it grate with people so much? Is it impinging on your lives that much if somebody wants to claim the same nationality as you? If it is, you need to check yourself, because there are some real issues going on everywhere around the world that you may have missed in the last while. The Irish have prospered in many countries around the world over the years - if people want to be part of the Irish culture, let them I say. The more the merrier.

Because I should be able to claim I'm from every single country since distantally, I have some sort of relative there. If you want to say you're Irish either prove your born here or get an official document stating you're Irish.

southsiderosie · 29-03-2011 01:03AM

dr gonzo wrote: »

Do you have the accent though? it cant be argued with .

No, I have a crazy Chicaaaaago accent. My mom's family are Chicago South Side Irish. They are a separate breed unto themselves.

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Because I should be able to claim I'm from every single country since distantally, I have some sort of relative there. If you want to say you're Irish either prove your born here or get an official document stating you're Irish.

The Irish in the US were essentially told that they weren't proper Americans for several generations. That's why they identify so closely with Ireland - they didn't really "become" Americans until WWII.

In addition, Irish politicians, and in particular republicans, have carefully groomed and maintained their relationships with Irish Americans - for better or for worse - since the days of the Land League. The Irish in the US were extremely poor in the late 19th and early 20th century, but they still managed to pour a lot of money into pro-independence Irish causes.

How Irish-Americans see themselves today is no accident; rather it is the result of over a century of very specific political and social strategies on the part of both "native" American (i.e. Yankee protestants), Irish American, and "native" Irish politicians.

Chaotic_Forces · 29-03-2011 01:05AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

No, I have a crazy Chicaaaaago accent. My mom's family are Chicago South Side Irish. They are a separate breed unto themselves.

The Irish in the US were essentially told that they weren't proper Americans for several generations. That's why they identify so closely with Ireland - they didn't really "become" Americans until WWII.

In addition, Irish politicians, and in particular republicans, have carefully groomed and maintained their relationships with Irish Americans - for better or for worse - since the days of the Land League. The Irish in the US were extremely poor in the late 19th and early 20th century, but they still managed to pour a lot of money into pro-independence Irish causes.

How Irish-Americans see themselves today is no accident; rather it is the result of over a century of very specific political and social strategies on the part of both "native" American (i.e. Yankee protestants), Irish American, and "native" Irish politicians.

I'm well aware that we're the nig*ers of europe or whatever it was when we first went there. That's fine.

But if they feel so strongly about being Irish, tell them to fu*king move here and get a document after several years. Otherwise they're a bunch of liars.

LondonIrish90 · 29-03-2011 01:07AM

To say you are German or British can immediately bring about negative feelings or emotions from some people. Whereas to say you are Irish will not, as Ireland and the culture is unanimously celebrated by many countries worldwide. The Irish have never plundered and pillaged their way across the world like other European nationalities have all done at some point, so Americans with Irish ancestry feel only pride and happiness at the connection.

So I have been told anyway, by an Italian American, of all people.

southsiderosie · 29-03-2011 01:10AM

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

I'm well aware that we're the nig*ers of europe or whatever it was when we first went there. That's fine.

But if they feel so strongly about being Irish, tell them to fu*king move here and get a document after several years. Otherwise they're a bunch of liars.

Why does it matter what people call themselves? I don't think it warrants this level of hostility, especially since it doesn't affect you.

Chaotic_Forces · 29-03-2011 01:11AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why does it matter what people call themselves? I don't think it warrants this level of hostility, especially since it doesn't affect you.

Because they're liars and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

southsiderosie · 29-03-2011 01:14AM

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Because they're liars and shouldn't be allowed to exist I'm being an AH crankypants. Look at me, all controversial and stuff!

Oh, ok.

God... · 29-03-2011 01:17AM

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Because they're liars and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

I love you.

chillywilly · 29-03-2011 01:57AM

God... wrote: »

I love you.

Of course you do, God loves everybody!

Nothingbetter2d · 29-03-2011 02:30AM

if you can legally obtain an irish passport - your irish

if you cant your not

Yagantin · 29-03-2011 01:00PM

firefly08 wrote: »

Bear in mind that it's not unusual for certain traditions only to survive within a diaspora...for example, I honestly never heard of "corned beef and cabbage" until I saw someone talking about it in a movie. Over here in the US it's considered a really "Irish" thing. I always laughed, but on investigation, it is a traditional thing that has more or less died out back home. To me, the traditional thing was always bacon and cabbage - but years ago bacon was unheard of for the working classes (too expensive) and it was all corned beef.

Also, people over here keep asking me if I like my beer warm. At first I was like "WTF, are these people mad?" but actually they were basically repeating what they had heard about old timer pubs in rural Ireland not having refrigeration - so a lot of the ould fellas are used to drinking room temperature Guiness. They know this kind of thing and I don't! (and I grew up in a tiny village in the West of Ireland)

Having said that though, I regard Irishness as a way of life more than an ethnic identity. If you spend a few years in Ireland you'll either become one of us or you won't be able to stick it! Kind of like the Borg. So no, Irish Americans can keep up with all the traditions they like - and fair play to them - but you have to have lived in Ireland to be Irish

This is true, what you said about Irishness - that it is more like a way of life than just nationality, although I wasn't born here and have never lived here permanently I spent every summer of the last 6 years in Eire doing art here. I mostly paint portraits and lanscapes.
I would very much like to live here and am planning to do so after my diploma in arts, this is because of "a kind od magic in the air" - it may sound awkward and I don't know how to explain it further.
It is a marvel at the beauty of the nature, the ocean, wonderful weather (for me) with thousands of rainbows round every corner, gentle winds, clean air and many many many other things...

old hippy · 29-03-2011 01:05PM

I remember a few years ago, we were at an Irish pub in Tooting on St Pat's days and all the kids got up in their costumes and did the Irish dancing. Nearly every single one of the kids were of mixed race, with an Irish parent and some Irish grandparents in the audience.

I have to say, something inside me, akin to joy, took root. I suddently felt that there's more to being Irish than what some myopic folk say.

A wonderful moment.

Chaotic_Forces · 29-03-2011 01:25PM

old hippy wrote: »

I remember a few years ago, we were at an Irish pub in Tooting on St Pat's days and all the kids got up in their costumes and did the Irish dancing. Nearly every single one of the kids were of mixed race, with an Irish parent and some Irish grandparents in the audience.

I have to say, something inside me, akin to joy, took root. I suddently felt that there's more to being Irish than what some myopic folk say.

A wonderful moment.

Were the children born here or a citizen of Ireland?

old hippy · 29-03-2011 01:45PM

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Were the children born here or a citizen of Ireland?

I have no idea. It didn't seem to matter. Just a wonderful moment, really.

I imagine they were Tooting locals of Irish/other heritage. But if they identified theirselves as Irish or were interested in their heritage - good on them. Who is anyone to say otherwise?

Dub Ste · 29-03-2011 01:57PM

I have a real chip on my shoulder over this.

I was born in Leeds,my mam was from Cavan,my dad from Leeds.Dad died when I was 10,so I mam raised us,with help from my auntie and uncle,also from Cavan.Being in our house or theirs,was just like being in my grannies house,all the holy pictures,the statues,the records,the food,everything,it was just natural for me.

At school I was bullied because we were an Irish family,always getting called "You Irish .............",you get called something enough times,you start to believe it.I never felt any real connection with the UK,I loved Leeds but that was as far as it went.All the time at school I felt I never fitted in either "box",I wasn't fully Irish nor was I fully English,but I knew where my heart lay.

Mam died 15 years ago,and I decided I'd had enough of living over there,and wanted to come,to where I felt was home.It was the best thing that I've ever done,I feel totally at home,I'm now married and have my own home,and never will I leave this country.

Now,here's the rub,because I was born over there,even though I'm an Irish citizen,I'm not as freely accepted as anyone else would be.When I point out that people like Phil Lynott,Shane MacGowan,Paul McGrath were born over there,I feel real childish,you know,"well you think they're Irish but not me ...",listen,that's just my problem.

All I know is what I feel,I feel I'm home.....

Spread · 29-03-2011 02:19PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Well there goes the thread. No one can top God...

I was taught that Pontius Pilate topped Him!

Chaotic_Forces · 29-03-2011 03:05PM

old hippy wrote: »

I have no idea. It didn't seem to matter. Just a wonderful moment, really.

I imagine they were Tooting locals of Irish/other heritage. But if they identified theirselves as Irish or were interested in their heritage - good on them. Who is anyone to say otherwise?

There is a large difference between claiming you're Irish and exploring your heritage.

Chaotic_Forces · 29-03-2011 03:06PM

Dub Ste wrote: »

I have a real chip on my shoulder over this.

I was born in Leeds,my mam was from Cavan,my dad from Leeds.Dad died when I was 10,so I mam raised us,with help from my auntie and uncle,also from Cavan.Being in our house or theirs,was just like being in my grannies house,all the holy pictures,the statues,the records,the food,everything,it was just natural for me.

At school I was bullied because we were an Irish family,always getting called "You Irish .............",you get called something enough times,you start to believe it.I never felt any real connection with the UK,I loved Leeds but that was as far as it went.All the time at school I felt I never fitted in either "box",I wasn't fully Irish nor was I fully English,but I knew where my heart lay.

Mam died 15 years ago,and I decided I'd had enough of living over there,and wanted to come,to where I felt was home.It was the best thing that I've ever done,I feel totally at home,I'm now married and have my own home,and never will I leave this country.

Now,here's the rub,because I was born over there,even though I'm an Irish citizen,I'm not as freely accepted as anyone else would be.When I point out that people like Phil Lynott,Shane MacGowan,Paul McGrath were born over there,I feel real childish,you know,"well you think they're Irish but not me ...",listen,that's just my problem.

All I know is what I feel,I feel I'm home.....

You're a citizen, you're Irish.

sensibleken · 29-03-2011 03:12PM

I think its great that Irish-Americans are proud of their heritage and consider themselves Irish.

When you consider that for most of them the only reason they are there is because of the famine. Our ancestors managed to survive it here for whatever reason, but for their ancestors they had to take an extrememly dangerous trip that risked their own lives and that of their children so that they could survive.

I think if i was to deny them the right to call themselves irish it would be disrespectfull to those poor feckers in the 1840s.

that said im 1/16th american so a bit of swappage doesnt go astray

Irish heritage v. Being Irish

Comments