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Moment of truth for leftists (except scumlord because he likes The Zohan)
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59240
Bingo. Plus whatever side you support is more based on fluke than anything else. Sometimes it can even throw up interesting dichotomies in folks. I'm gonna pick on Makikomi* as an example of that. From my reading of your posts over the years would it be fair to say you would be more of a republican than not? More a man proud of your fellow Irish men and women and their fight to remove themselves from the yoke of the English crown? Yet because of your Jewish heritage you are more a supporter of Israel, when most republicans(indeed a majority of Irish even) would be more supportive of the Palestinians as the aforementioned are much more like the Irish of the past under crown rule and the Israeli's are much more like the planters of Ulster and elsewhere(but Ulster in particular has major parallels).That's the problem with all human conflict. You defend the Israeli side they defend the Palestinian side and it then becomes a battle of who can outdo the other side. It's not about peace it's about winning.
Both sides are wrong, it takes two to tango and until both sides admit they are just as wrong as the other side this argument will go on and on and on.
Hey I'm confused myself
I grew up with Jews as mates, had rellies who saw the results first hand of the Austrian corporals madness, so would have backed Israel rather than the PLO of my peers. I still would too. Like you say given a choice between Israel a modern "western" democracy and the majority of Arab states I'd defo want to live in the former. Hell one university in Tel Aviv produces more doctoral thesis' in a year than the whole of the rest of the middle east. I really hope the various current revolutions in some of the Arab nations changes that, but I won't hold my breath.
What rankles with me is the hypocrisy and blinkered thinking in Israel. Certainly the official line. If they admited that they're intent on a Jew only Israel, more to the point a non Arab one, I'd have far more respect for them. For all their bowler hatted sash wearing insanity at least the Orange men were pretty clear about their aims. Israel is like the school bully using the weaker kids own fist to punch him in the face, all the while saying ". It's all you fault, why are you punching yourself?".
*not based on reality. He's fooking huuge, so he is. :eek: Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59240
They are now. I wouldn't like to have been around in the 17th century though. Add in modern automatic weapons and it would have been "fun" up north. But yea we dont really go in for real mad extremes. Actually that goes for these two islands. We're not quite as batshít crazy as some other countries.Reading this thread and a few Irish Republican ones here lately, remind me how much I hate extremism. Bad and all as the North is, the extremists are less and less and things are moving on. Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59240
Maybe not. The Palestinian land and population is dropping. They're being squeezed into smaller and smaller areas. I can see a time where within the borders of Israel their'll be very very few left. Jerusalem yes as the temple of th mount is there, but beyond that? Maybe not.......this may come as a shock, but regardless of what kind of agreement is reached (if one is reached at all), yez are going to be stuck beside each other. In fact, its the one certainty.
Yep well ahead of youWait a minute, Makikomi. I normally wouldn't bring an argument from one thread into another, but in this case, i feel, it's justifiable.
Weren't you, in a thread not so long ago, going to great lengths to explain why, exactly, those who joined the IRA in the north, becoming 'terrorists' in the process, did what they did?
And, unless my memory fails me, you were getting quite irate at some of those who wouldn't countenace any understanding of this?
Is there not a fairly obvious correlation between the position of the Palestinians and the position of Northern Catholics at the time the 'troubles' flared up in the North?
I'd say yes; the only real difference being that what the Palestinians are currently going through would seem to make the position of Catholics in N. Ireland at that time look somewhat idyllic.
But it's down to individual perception of this stuff. I'd come from a largely republican background, yet because I grew up with Jews as mates I would be more a supporter of Israel in general. As someone who also thinks Islam hasn't been any use to civilisation since the middle ages I know which state in that part of the world I'd rather live in too(though I think the black hat wearing ringletted Zionist eejits are just as bad). Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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If you have already mentioned the IRA - have you all seen the movie "Bloody Sunday"? A very powerful and 'heavy' movie.
off topic:
I watched it without subtitles and it was so hard for me to understand the Northern Irish accent! When the British were talking, i was like: oh well, normal English, heh. Do you all understant all those accents? 0 -
The Israeli wrote: »If you have already mentioned the IRA - have you all seen the movie "Bloody Sunday"? A very powerful and 'heavy' movie.
off topic:
I watched it without subtitles and it was so hard for me to understand the Northern Irish accent! When the British were talking, i was like: oh well, normal English, heh. Do you all understant all those accents?
Depends on the English accent, Liverpool "Scouser", Newcastle "Geordie" and a strong Manchester one can be even harder to understand.
I do notice most Irish Republican posters here tend to sympathise with Palestinians, probably because they can empathise with them because of events like that.
I wouldn't live far away from Derry and the stories of harassment of people from here going to the Bloody Sunday funerals, by British soldiers at border checkpoints, are still remembered.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59240
Nice way to avoid the really obvious. Again how do you and your fellow countrymen and women explain this map? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qLZCK7dYhVA/TLtg9dUosbI/AAAAAAAAAiU/2xmpO0wMUfA/s1600/israel_palestine_map.jpg The green areas have gotten smaller and smaller and smaller and continue to do so. This is an indisputable fact, so how can you state "Israel doesn't conquer existing Palestinian cities and villages"? It makes all of your other (good) arguments look daft.The Israeli wrote: »Second, the Palestinians aren't facing a danger of being kicked out of the country. Israel doesn't conquer existing Palestinian cities and villages. In fact, in the future agreements Israel will return lands. The war that the Palestinian terror organizations are having can't be described as survival war. At most, they can be described as "saving the non-habitant lands from Israeli expanding occupation and trying to roll back to before 48 position.
The other thing is that if that was any other state they would have been declared a rogue state and UN sanctions would have been in force. Oh wait... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel More UN sanctions condeming Israel than any other nation combined. Yet nothing has been done. Yet other nations have been or are currently under western military force of arms on a lot less provocation. Arab state with UN sanctions and condemnation? Send in the tanks or kick off a "no fly zone". Israel with more than any other state combined? Ah sure let's trade with them. Now do you see why a lot of people, especially Arabs are against your state and feel they're being bullshítted?
Kinda like the perception of the Jewish culture itself by outsiders. When you ask most in the west to picture a Jew they usually picture some pale bald bloke in ringlets with a bushy beard dressed in a black overcoat and like you say there are loads of other cultures involved. For a start no Irish Jew I've known looked like that. Well they looked like Irish people mostly because they were. Even a couple of red heads. Poor poor bastards.Here we have different accents too but they differ not by the geographical location but by usually the origin of your parents / grandparents. For instance: there is the normal Ashkenazi accent, Moroccan, Iraqi, Persian, Arabic of the non jews, Russian and some more. Then again a fair few Jews worldwide have red hair IIRC. Woody Allen is one I think. Wonder is it the same mutation that the Irish, Scots and Basques have? Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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