Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

dubhthach · 22-03-2011 1:26pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

There is no room for QBCs between Griffith Ave and the city centre so that is the routes via Drumcondra and Glasnevin out the window. Nothing wrong with running an airport bus through the Port Tunnel, the problem with running an alternative to MN through the Port Tunnel is you miss out all the other stops, therefore it is not an alternative.

Well I wouldn't be surprised that their thinking is to remove road space for motorists to provide for the QBC. Either that or they want to do widescale demolition sort of like what happened in city center to build the "Inner Tangent" during 70's/80's :rolleyes:

markpb · 22-03-2011 1:31pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Well I wouldn't be surprised that their thinking is to remove road space for motorists to provide for the QBC. Either that or they want to do widescale demolition sort of like what happened in city center to build the "Inner Tangent" during 70's/80's :rolleyes:

Part of the Swords road is only three lanes wide. Putting in two bus lanes would leave only one for regular traffic. On one side is the Cat & Cage which is, I think, listed. On the other side is the gas mains for St. Patricks College. That's just one example. In other areas, there is more room, in some there is a little less. Putting in a high quality QBC might seem like an easy option but it's not really.

Aard · 22-03-2011 1:59pm

That report is just yet another in the vein of "Dublin gets everything". Don't spend so much on the capital so you can go OTT on small-town infrastructure. Do they not realise that if Dublin goes slow, it has a more pronounced effect on regional towns than if they don't get their bus lane? If you speed up the big cities, then the knock-on effects down the country are significant. But no, they'd prefer a thick white line in their Main St.

OurLadyofKnock · 22-03-2011 4:02pm

markpb wrote: »

And just to put that in context, it was written by: An Taisce, Friends of the Earth, Friends of the Irish Environment and Feasta (Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability)

Loike.

monument · 22-03-2011 7:25pm

lods wrote: »

The route meanders around north Dublin trying to justify itself by hitting as many locations as possible . It's not clear if the children's hospital will be built . The minister Reilly is to busy playing old style politics :rolleyes:

lods wrote: »

He has a history of flip flopping:rolleyes:

And you don't have a history of flip flopping?

You go to pushing/supporting Dare while goes from the Docklands, down along the Royal Canal, around the west of Finglas, and towards the airport. A real circler route.

Then on Metro North -- which is nearly a straight line compared to other metros or railway lines -- you claim that it "meanders around north Dublin trying to justify itself"?

lods · 23-03-2011 4:00am

I haven't promoted either project . I've posted links to various options other than Metro North

. Theres a big difference to a poster on boards doing that and a minister for Health spending all his time on parish pump politics , trying to try and win a few votes in Swords :rolleyes:

monument · 23-03-2011 4:12am

lods wrote: »

I haven't promoted either project . I've posted links to various options other than Metro North . Theres a big difference to a poster on boards doing that and a minister for Health spending all his time on parish pump politics , trying to try and win a few votes in Swords :rolleyes:

In one case you were trying to claim that one very meandering route is credible, while with Metro North you have claimed it is meandering to justify itself when it's a fairly straight metro line.

Sure there's a big difference between a minister for health and somebody on boards.ie, but that does not change the fact you flipped flopped on the issue. For one proposal meandering around the north half of the city does not matter, but Metro North which is nearly a straight line somehow meanders and that's apparently an issue.

It shows double standards on your part -- one project is nothing but wrong, but you're not at all critical of the alternatives.

lods · 23-03-2011 4:32am

monument wrote: »

In one case you were trying to claim that one very meandering route is credible, while with Metro North you have claimed it is meandering to justify itself when it's a fairly straight metro line.

Sure there's a big difference between a minister for health and somebody on boards.ie, but that does not change the fact you flipped flopped on the issue. For one proposal meandering around the north half of the city does not matter, but Metro North which is nearly a straight line somehow meanders and that's apparently an issue.

It shows double standards on your part -- one project is nothing but wrong, but you're not at all critical of the alternatives.

Nearly a straight line :rolleyes: the only project that at the moment could go ahead is Metro North. The other projects are alternatives put forward by various groups . None of the alternatives are perfect , but at the moment the only proposal on the table is Metro North . If Metro Norths main objectives are to provide a high speed service from Swords/airport to the city centre then it fails . It's no quicker than the present buses running through the port tunnel .

mickoneill30 · 23-03-2011 9:12am

lods wrote: »

If Metro Norths main objectives are to provide a high speed service from Swords/airport to the city centre then it fails . It's no quicker than the present buses running through the port tunnel .

That's one of it's objectives. I'd imagine high frequency, high capacity, park and ride, stopping at many more locations, not getting stuck in traffic and linking people to the Southside are more objectives. How does it do there?

Swords Express - From Pavillions - South Keys
30 - 35 mins. Having used the Swords Express it can be 20 mins if they get a good run. It can be a fair bit longer when the M1 gets clogged.

Dublin Bus 747 - From City Centre - Airport
35mins according to this.
With this little nugget at the bottom "From 15:00hrs - 19:00hrs it can take up to 55 minutes to travel from O'Connell St. to Dublin Airport."

Metro - From Pavillions - Stephens Green with a load of stops in between.
25 mins according to that link

I'd imagine the Metro won't be affected as much during periods like the snow we had recently. Metro will have park and ride too won't it so it'll pull in more than just people who can walk or get lifts to the local stops.

Aard · 23-03-2011 11:31am

By design, DPT avoids a lot of the inner suburbs; MN will serve them. It's more than just an airport/Swords shuttle. Think of it as having two functions in one:
1. Dart/Luas-like high-frequency service for inner city, Drumcondra, Glasnevin, DCU, and Ballymun.
2. Relatively high-speed service for the airport and Swords.

By combining them, you save money, and open up new trip opportunities. Kind of like 1+1=3. It no longer is start-point to end-point; it's a corridor, a continuum. This makes it far more attractive to potential patrons too. It gets everybody right into the centre of town fast, comfortably and reliably.

Even though I live a 20 minute walk from the Luas, I still prefer it to the bus. Any kind of express bus would have to be virtually entirely grade separated for me to walk further than my local bus to take it. One thing that urban rail will always have is pulling power.

Jack Noble · 23-03-2011 11:58am

lods wrote: »

Nearly a straight line :rolleyes: the only project that at the moment could go ahead is Metro North. The other projects are alternatives put forward by various groups . None of the alternatives are perfect , but at the moment the only proposal on the table is Metro North . If Metro Norths main objectives are to provide a high speed service from Swords/airport to the city centre then it fails . It's no quicker than the present buses running through the port tunnel .

The main objective of Metro North is not and never has been to create a 'high speed service from Swords/airport to the city centre' - that is simply one of the benefits of the line.

The main objectives are to create a strategic public transport corridor through north Dublin - linking major residential and commericial areas and key trip generators - and to create a rapid rail public transport network by linking up existing and future rail lines/corridors.

In your opposition to Metro North, you either fail to understand that or deliberately ignore it - it really is hard to tell which at this stage.

mgmt · 23-03-2011 1:00pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

There is no room for QBCs between Griffith Ave and the city centre so that is the routes via Drumcondra and Glasnevin out the window. Nothing wrong with running an airport bus through the Port Tunnel, the problem with running an alternative to MN through the Port Tunnel is you miss out all the other stops, therefore it is not an alternative.

Check out the bus lane in this link. A single reversible bus lane. http://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShHl2RyqXaAqhbMJ8sNSrxWM7UK1cVzODM_EfkmVLcVD4AmBhVYdBbBt0ObFR7tqaFkeJkR_xI4fet_ns1uA5aL_SMgvmVMuFMtqRP8XoxExvwYNv-DnpCGJsK_UmTB0Rfc06Yz&q=cache%3A31xOsUTQCz4J%3Awww.aptastandards.com%2FPortals%2F0%2FBus_Published%2F003_RP_BRT_Guideways.pdf%20bus%20lane%20reversible%203%20lane%20brt&docid=84e71c82ce6a4731c8ea6fde91452c3b&a=bi&pagenumber=6&w=718 (full pdf version here). This could easily be implemented onto the roadway which has just 3 lanes.

FreudianSlippers · 23-03-2011 1:19pm

mgmt wrote: »

Check out the bus lane in this link. A single reversible bus lane. http://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShHl2RyqXaAqhbMJ8sNSrxWM7UK1cVzODM_EfkmVLcVD4AmBhVYdBbBt0ObFR7tqaFkeJkR_xI4fet_ns1uA5aL_SMgvmVMuFMtqRP8XoxExvwYNv-DnpCGJsK_UmTB0Rfc06Yz&q=cache%3A31xOsUTQCz4J%3Awww.aptastandards.com%2FPortals%2F0%2FBus_Published%2F003_RP_BRT_Guideways.pdf%20bus%20lane%20reversible%203%20lane%20brt&docid=84e71c82ce6a4731c8ea6fde91452c3b&a=bi&pagenumber=6&w=718 (full pdf version here). This could easily be implemented onto the roadway which has just 3 lanes.

And what is the peak split percentage between morning/afternoon on this route? I'd imagine that it's not viable as it would seem due to constant need for bi-directional traffic.

NuMarvel · 23-03-2011 1:29pm

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I'd imagine the Metro won't be affected as much during periods like the snow we had recently.

Don't bet on it

:D

201998949.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1300884262&Signature=1WDhc2%2FOxosW4KjUKLkPpUi5HUw%3D

mgmt · 23-03-2011 1:48pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

And what is the peak split percentage between morning/afternoon on this route? I'd imagine that it's not viable as it would seem due to constant need for bi-directional traffic.

This is kinda interesting about this particular bus lane:

A single BRT lane can also be provided in a way that both the inbound and outbound buses are accommodated at the same time. In such a case, refuge areas need to be provided along the BRT route as illustrated in Figure 7.10. Managing such a facility will require a signaling system that can detect the presence of vehicles when the lane is occupied. Right-of-way can be provided through the signal to the directions with peak demands. Such a system is currently in operation in Eugene, Oregon, where the block signal system is used to manage the BRT traffic in both directions.

http://www.utexas.edu/research/ctr/pdf_reports/0_5668_1.pdf (page 83)

FreudianSlippers · 23-03-2011 1:51pm

mgmt wrote: »

This is kinda interesting about this particular bus lane:

I've seen the Eugene example, and IMO it doesn't work. That town is very small and has relatively wide roads and the bus still doesn't work properly. There are significant delays and confusion where buses aren't adhering to a perfect dance of timetabling.

mgmt · 23-03-2011 2:19pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I've seen the Eugene example, and IMO it doesn't work. That town is very small and has relatively wide roads and the bus still doesn't work properly. There are significant delays and confusion where buses aren't adhering to a perfect dance of timetabling.

Lyon also has a reversible bus lane. Here it is being used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt3GRBubVFA

monument · 23-03-2011 3:42pm

How do you proposed to fit that into, for example, this road or this one?

D.L.R. · 23-03-2011 7:23pm

Lyon has a great transport system, and a similar pop to Dublin. They have I think 4 metro lines, 3 or 4 tram lines, and some dart type services. I would say they have more road capacity to play with than Dublin because of that.

lods · 24-03-2011 5:52pm

Government tight-lipped on Metro North
WEDNESDAY, 23 MARCH 2011
SERIOUS doubt hangs over the future of the Metro North project, which has the potential to create thousands of much-needed jobs.
The Government is remaining tight-lipped in relation to the major infrastructural project that has already cost the taxpayer $135 million.
When quizzed on the matter, a spokesperson for the Department of Transport said they could not state the Government’s intentions as they have not had time to consider it as of yet.
“The minister (for Transport, Leo Varadkar) is familiarising himself with his brief at present and the Government has yet to consider Metro North,” the spokesperson told Northside People.
It is understood that the Government faces the option of either scrapping the proposed 18km rail link from St Stephen’s Green to Swords or to proceed quickly with enabling works.
Suspicion
The new Government’s reluctance to clarify the position has been met with suspicion and pessimism by some politicians, such as newly elected Dublin North West TD Dessie Ellis (SF). He claimed the Government was “hiding behind mixed messages”.
“They and their Programme for Government is all very vague,” he stated.
“They are calling for a $2 billion cutback in capital projects but they can’t say which project this will affect.
“It would be an absolute disaster if Metro North was scrapped as millions of euro has already been spent on the project which has the potential to deliver so many direct and ancillary jobs.
“The Government can’t row back on everything that the previous Government put into action.”
Foolish
In stark contrast, Lord Mayor of Dublin Cllr Gerry Breen (FG) believes the Government would be foolish to push ahead with the project given the financial difficulties the country faces.
“At the end of the day we have to make serious and sensible decisions and not plough ahead with projects regardless of our financial situation,” he stated.
“I can’t see Metro North going ahead. It just wouldn’t make any sense.
“We can’t approve all projects just for the sake of creating jobs and regardless of what money we have available for them.”
Meanwhile, Swords ward councillor Darragh Butler (FF) has urged the Minister for Transport to ensure that Metro North proceeds as planned.
Vital
“Metro North is vital for the economic development of Swords and north county Dublin,” said Cllr Butler.
“The construction of Metro North will potentially create over 6,000 jobs, along with potentially over 30,000 jobs along the new Metro North economic corridor.
“I would urge the new minister to ensure that Metro North proceeds as planned and is delivered as soon as possible.”
Invested
Politicians aren’t the only ones calling on the Government to state its intentions in relation to the project. It’s thought that the two bidders involved in the procurement process for the planned metro have invested significant sums of money in keeping their teams mobilised.
The multi-billion Metro North project was given the green light by An Bord Pleanála last October.
The rail link is planned to run from the Estuary stop in Swords to St Stephen’s Green and includes an underground link.
Bridge
It will run from the city centre through Ballymun where it will cross the M50 on a flyover bridge.
Some commentators have advocated scrapping Metro North and focus instead on the proposed DART Underground scheme in the belief that it would be cheaper, benefit more passengers and yield a greater economic return.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/4431/57/
From the Dublin People newspaper

chooochooo · 25-03-2011 6:07pm

lods wrote: »

http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/4431/57/
From the Dublin People newspaper

A non story with nothing new making a cheap headline.
You're clutching at straws.
In fact when the new gov. is fully briefed on the MN package they will be even more zealous advocates.
You know nothing about the subject other than some half baked wishful thinking, the result of a 'bit of a think'
MN is primarily a key element in a comprehensive public transport system.
It will help everything connect with everything.
It is not primarily an airport/Swords link.

lods · 25-03-2011 7:13pm

chooochooo wrote: »

A non story with nothing new making a cheap headline.
You're clutching at straws.
In fact when the new gov. is fully briefed on the MN package they will be even more zealous advocates.
You know nothing about the subject other than some half baked wishful thinking, the result of a 'bit of a think'
MN is primarily a key element in a comprehensive public transport system.
It will help everything connect with everything.
It is not primarily an airport/Swords link.

The Dublin people is pro Metro North

Metro North won't connect everything but Dart underground will.

The only wishful thinking is by those the think it will go ahead.:)

Your first post could have been a bit more thought out.

FreudianSlippers · 25-03-2011 7:59pm

lods wrote: »

The Dublin people is pro Metro North
Metro North won't connect everything but Dart underground will.

The only wishful thinking is by those the think it will go ahead.:)

Your first post could have been a bit more thought out.

I could say the same thing about your 339th post. :rolleyes:

lods · 25-03-2011 9:35pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I could say the same thing about your 339th post. :rolleyes:

In this guys first post he's able to tell me i know nothing about Metro North? He hasn't been involved in any debate here. Or maybe he has and this is his alter ego to slag off people or troll without actually adding anything to the argument. Gerry Breen is Fine Gael & the Lord Mayor & i'd imagine he's closer to those making the decision about than chooochooo. I didn't right the article and considering its coming from a paper thats pro Metro North its a bit foolish to describe it as wishful thinking on my part. From what i van see The government are getting ready to ditch Metro North & this is the start of letting people down gently. if its such a vital piece of infrastructure why isn't it in the programme for government or why is the minister for transport still familiarising himself with it.

Hoof Hearted · 25-03-2011 9:57pm

lods wrote: »

The Dublin people is pro Metro North
Metro North won't connect everything but Dart underground will.

The only wishful thinking is by those the think it will go ahead.:)

Your first post could have been a bit more thought out.

Did the suggestion about providing dual gauge ever get any traction to provide a DART type service in the Fingal area, in other words a Fingal Area Rapid Transport system. That suggestion would stink.

Jack Noble · 25-03-2011 10:14pm

lods wrote: »

The Dublin people is pro Metro North
Metro North won't connect everything but Dart underground will.

The only wishful thinking is by those the think it will go ahead.:)

Your first post could have been a bit more thought out.

Lods, you're wrong again - as usual. Are you really this ignorant or are you being deliberately disengenuous? I genuinely can't tell anymore but it has gone past tiresome at this stage.

Without Dart Underground, Metro North interchanges with the Luas Red O'Connell Street/Abbey Street - thus Heuston, Connolly and Busaras) and Green lines (Stephen's Green) and the Maynooth Commuter line to Connolly and Pearse Dart stations (Drumcondra). Dart at Tara Street is a two-minute walk from OCB station entrance on Westmoreland Street.

With Dart Underground, Metro North creates an entire network of north-south, east-west lines. And that is before Metro West, Lucan Luas and BXD and the other lines planned under T21 and 2030 Vision are added.

Either go away and study the plans and maps on the RPA, T21 and NTA websites or stop lying to people here. It's your call.

lods · 26-03-2011 1:00am

Lods, you're wrong again - as usual. Are you really this ignorant or are you being deliberately disengenuous? I genuinely can't tell anymore but it has gone past tiresome at this stage.

Stop replying so or have you become bored of politics.ie

with Dart Underground, Metro North creates an entire network of north-south, east-west lines. And that is before Metro West, Lucan Luas and BXD and the other lines planned under T21 and 2030 Vision are added.

Metro North is dead , it'll never be built. The only project that might see the light of Day is Luas BXD. The spoofers in the RPA even realise this and are leaving the RPA in their droves . 2030 is just all the projects they didn't do in T21.

chooochooo · 26-03-2011 5:43am

lods wrote: »

Stop replying so or have you become bored of politics.ie

Metro North is dead , it'll never be built. The only project that might see the light of Day is Luas BXD. The spoofers in the RPA even realise this and are leaving the RPA in their droves . 2030 is just all the projects they didn't do in T21.

:D:D

This from the 'expert' who thinks MN is primarily an airport link.
Who also thinks it meanders all over the place when it's virtually a straight line.
You come across as desperate to cling to any hope that MN won't be built.

lods · 26-03-2011 8:11am

When did i say it was an Airport link

. 20% of the traffic comes from the Airport, you really need to start reading the thread from the start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgwYT_4Pr9k

You really need to go back to school if you think this is a straight line, look at the official video

Zebra3 · 26-03-2011 9:01am

lods wrote: »

The spoofers in the RPA even realise this and are leaving the RPA in their droves.

So how many have quit then, and where are they taking up employment?

Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

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