Inset Stove

Qualitymark · 25-03-2011 07:01PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Chimney breast was taken apart and rebuilt by the builder,to suit the Stovax stove,this was part of a big house renovation/extension project.

Paddy147, when you say "chimney breast was taken apart and rebuilt", is that the whole chimney up to the roof, or just the part in your living room?

I was thinking of a Scan Andersen, but the first stove shop I went to (Murphy's in Kinvara - very nice and very informed) suggested a Stovax Riva 40 because it's for a semi-D with a standard sort of fireplace and chimney. I can't remember if this was because of the size of the *fireplace* or because of the size of the *chimney aperture*, however.

The Stovax they suggested only has a 4kW output, though; I'd get more of a bruiser if I could.

Also, where are you? If I get this done, I'd be looking for a builder who knew what s/he was doing. Oh, and that €3k, was that including the price of the stove,

paddy147 · 25-03-2011 09:00PM

The old grotty 1970s style fireplace and chimney breast was demolished and rebuilt in the living room area only,to accomodate the inet stove,and the entire existing chimney up to roof chimney pot level was then lined with 6 inch wide twin walled stainless flue liner.

Im in North Dublin.

Qualitymark · 25-03-2011 09:42PM

Having read the whole thread (whew), I have a couple of questions for our kindly experts, if they wouldn't mind.

My house was built in the 1930s, and has the standard, beautiful Art Deco fireplaces; tiny ones in the bedrooms and larger in the living rooms.

People here have been talking about flues; I'm a little uncertain whether they mean the actual stone chimney by this, or the pipe going up through the chimney from the stove.

Murphy's of Kinvara suggested to me that because I have a 1930s fireplace, I should go for a Stovax 40 rather than a hotter-burning stove, because the larger and hotter stove wouldn't fit in the fireplace of an old house.

They also - I must ask them to clarify this - had some queries about the size of my chimney. I'm not sure how to measure this. Could its size prevent my using an inset stove?

Finally (sorry for the series of questions - I'm not asking for an essay in reply here, just for terse but exact replies, if you'd be so kind), is there a list anywhere of builders who are competent and qualified in this particular job? Having read some of the dodgy stories on this thread, I'm just going to try to glue back the hair that riz off me head with the horror.

Qualitymark · 29-03-2011 11:47AM

Hm, have sent PMs to the two experts warning of cowboys out there, asking them if they could recommend competent builders and installers, but had no reply; maybe they're no longer following boards.ie. Anyone?

Thanks, someone alerted one of the experts, who PM'd me and I PM'd back.

Does anyone know who the inspection agency is for stove and chimney installations in Ireland? What Department does it come under, and what section?

bideye · 12-06-2011 09:12PM

read full thread on inset stoves still dunno which one to install- looking at the boru 600i any one have any feed back on these stoves.. thanks for all help

Qualitymark · 12-06-2011 09:43PM

I finally got a stove installed - not inset but freestanding - a Clearview, installed by County Down Stoves, I think they were called. I'm ecstatic with it. It produces vast amounts of heat for little fuel.

It required installation of a flexible steel flue, and disassembly of the hearth, so was expensive, but I love it.

sinjim · 17-06-2011 06:11PM

Hi there is 13 pages to this thread and i have no intention of reading all of it

I've worked for cliffords fireplaces for 20 years give or take and i would be more than happy to advise/help anyone with any questions if they want to pm me.
Thanks
Tom

paddy147 · 17-06-2011 06:20PM

sinjim wrote: »

Hi there is 13 pages to this thread and i have no intention of reading all of it
I've worked for .... for 20 years give or take and i would be more than happy to advise/help anyone with any questions if they want to pm me.
Thanks
Tom

You really do like to promote and advertise your business,dont you?

More or less every post today that you have made,either has the company name or website details.

Give it a rest,will you.

sinjim · 17-06-2011 06:24PM

paddy147 wrote: »

You really do like to promote and advertise your business,dont you?

More or less every post today that you have made,either has the company name or website details.

Give it a rest,will you.

Sorry paddy didn't realise you were a mod
I shall immeadiately stop offering to help people
Cheers

sinjim · 17-06-2011 06:26PM

By the way its not MY business i just work there.

niallam · 17-06-2011 06:31PM

My mother put in a Stanley Oisin into her sitting room instead of the natural gas fire that came in it, the stove heats no problem the whole downstairs of a nearly 3000 sq ft house.
Was a place in Baldoyle selling them on special there a while back.

paddy147 · 17-06-2011 06:33PM

sinjim wrote: »

Sorry paddy didn't realise you were a mod
I shall immeadiately stop offering to help people
Cheers

Im not a mod at all.
help away all you want,but you dont have to keep on advertizing the company name or website details.

Thats the difference and point.

sinjim · 17-06-2011 06:38PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Im not a mod at all.
help away all you want,but you dont have to keep on advertizing the company name or website details.

Thats the difference and point.

I would think people would rather know that the information is coming from someone who knows what there talking about, thats why i mention the company and website, theres plenty of people round who haven't a clue but will throw in there tuppence worth any chance they can

sinjim · 17-06-2011 06:40PM

niallam wrote: »

My mother put in a Stanley Oisin into her sitting room instead of the natural gas fire that came in it, the stove heats no problem the whole downstairs of a nearly 3000 sq ft house.
Was a place in Baldoyle selling them on special there a while back.

That was grange value hardware in baldoyle they were €399,Bargin!!!

And no paddy i dont work there

zipps · 13-09-2011 10:04PM

I am thinking of getting a Esse 301 5kw stove.

Can any one recommend it or give me any feedback please

rpmcs · 15-09-2011 07:56PM

Sorry for late reply, esse 301 is a grand wee stove, but to be honest id say its a bit pricey for the build of it,
Personal I like the arrow ecoburn 5 inset,
Little cheaper if your looking at black door, and you get movable grate too, but that's probably just splitting hairs,

zipps · 18-09-2011 10:18PM

Thank you RPMCS.

My requirements for a stove are insert and the biggest glass door I can get. My room size suits a 5 kw but I was going to get a 7kw so I could open door and warm rest of house a bit.
i have seen the Arrow eco burn but the glass is very small and i really want to be able to see a lot of the fire.

Would you recommend any other one? Should I be getting one with a fan? or what if anything is the advantage of a fan?
What about Stovax? I have heard them recommended but know nothing about them.

I would appreciate any advise you can give.

rpmcs · 18-09-2011 11:01PM

stockton 7 inset is great little stove in my opinion, but glass again probably not what your looking for,riva 40 or bigger 55 if you have the size, big flame picture with both, but bit pricey in comparison, some have fans but have no experience with them in use so can comment other than to say it makes sense,

white_westie · 15-10-2011 08:07PM

House is 25yr old 3 bed semi-d estate house located in Dublin, with open fire and back boiler fitted since beginning. Fire not lit in at least 10years maybe 15, but never had problems when it was being used.

Ripped out fireplace yesterday to expose the grant back boiler. Will be taking this out as soon as I can drain it - need to move large display unit to get side access to piping to drain.

Exposed opening is 570W x 700H x 330D, with dome pre cast lintel sitting on top of opening feeding into what looks like concrete pipe flue. Internal measurement is approx 180mm, so I'm assuming its classed as a 7inch flue (could be 8inch though!).

Looking at replacing with a clean looking chimney breast and an inset stove - free standing version not really a option, as it would stick out into the room too much.

Room size only requires a 4-5KWh stove, so after some research on the net (many posts on boards to read), I am considering a TR4. Brochure for TR4 stated it can be installed into a standard fireplace opening, and it is held in place by locking a bar onto the underside of the lintel.

So, what would need to be done to fit a TR4 into the raw opening?

Would you leave an empty space behind the stove and the back wall, or would you need to refit some form of fireback?.
Would you need to line the bare opening with something like ceramic tiles or skamolex sheeting?
What about the front surface of the chimney breast, pink plasterboard and fire hardened plaster, or some form of metal fireplace back panel?

WW

sinjim · 16-10-2011 12:12AM

white_westie wrote: »

House is 25yr old 3 bed semi-d estate house located in Dublin, with open fire and back boiler fitted since beginning. Fire not lit in at least 10years maybe 15, but never had problems when it was being used.

Ripped out fireplace yesterday to expose the grant back boiler. Will be taking this out as soon as I can drain it - need to move large display unit to get side access to piping to drain.

Exposed opening is 570W x 700H x 330D, with dome pre cast lintel sitting on top of opening feeding into what looks like concrete pipe flue. Internal measurement is approx 180mm, so I'm assuming its classed as a 7inch flue (could be 8inch though!).

Looking at replacing with a clean looking chimney breast and an inset stove - free standing version not really a option, as it would stick out into the room too much.

Room size only requires a 4-5KWh stove, so after some research on the net (many posts on boards to read), I am considering a TR4. Brochure for TR4 stated it can be installed into a standard fireplace opening, and it is held in place by locking a bar onto the underside of the lintel.

So, what would need to be done to fit a TR4 into the raw opening?

Would you leave an empty space behind the stove and the back wall, or would you need to refit some form of fireback?.
Would you need to line the bare opening with something like ceramic tiles or skamolex sheeting?
What about the front surface of the chimney breast, pink plasterboard and fire hardened plaster, or some form of metal fireplace back panel?

WW

Firstly id have the chimney cleaned smoke tested and cctv'd to ensure theres no problems.
Im not 100% sure (will find out for definite monday and post) but i think the TR4 is for use only with an actual fireplace installed (hearth, back panel, fireback and surround )as there is a need for a fireback, if it were possible to install it into just an opening the wall would have to be wet plastered with a heat proof plaster a certain distance above and either side of the stove normally around 300mm to the sides and sometimes up to 600mm above but again will find out monday for definite and post monday

white_westie · 16-10-2011 08:58PM

Sinjim

Thks for response.
Suggestion re cleaning/testing/survey of chimney was something I knew I would have to get done - just not sure how much detail I would have to go into.

As regards stove choice, we got an opportunity to see some in the flesh today, including the TR4, TR5 and TR5C - unfortunately not what herself was looking for. I also had the Aarrow Ecoburn and the Esse 3xx series on my list, and we got to see some of them today - the Aarow was even lighting. Esse had stainless door, so not sure what back door would look like.
So after visit to showroom, the Aarrow is top of the list - gave out good heat and looks the part, and she would must be obeyed would be happy with it.

Salesman pointed out the aarrow gives heat out side/front, whereas the Esse gives heat out the top/front and you would have to be careful of what you put above it. Other thing he said was that aarrow would need a fireback fitted as fittings screw into it, whereas esse would not - just need to fill empty void behind it with vermiculite!
Basically he said that I would have to fill and reduce the raw chimney opening and create a solid frame for the stove to fit, so that it could be sealed and fitted into it.
Not sure what you would use - blocks or a mix of concrete and angle iron.

Having looked at a number of fireplaces, we sort of still think the clean look ie: plastered/painted chimney breast, black insert stove and black heart (maybe even one with a small curved to the front) is what we want.
Like everyone money is tight so have to watch the budget.

Any advice or comments welcome.

WW

PeteHeat · 16-10-2011 09:35PM

white_westie wrote: »

Sinjim

Thks for response.
Suggestion re cleaning/testing/survey of chimney was something I knew I would have to get done - just not sure how much detail I would have to go into.

As regards stove choice, we got an opportunity to see some in the flesh today, including the TR4, TR5 and TR5C - unfortunately not what herself was looking for. I also had the Aarrow Ecoburn and the Esse 3xx series on my list, and we got to see some of them today - the Aarow was even lighting. Esse had stainless door, so not sure what back door would look like.
So after visit to showroom, the Aarrow is top of the list - gave out good heat and looks the part, and she would must be obeyed would be happy with it.

Salesman pointed out the aarrow gives heat out side/front, whereas the Esse gives heat out the top/front and you would have to be careful of what you put above it. Other thing he said was that aarrow would need a fireback fitted as fittings screw into it, whereas esse would not - just need to fill empty void behind it with vermiculite!
Basically he said that I would have to fill and reduce the raw chimney opening and create a solid frame for the stove to fit, so that it could be sealed and fitted into it.
Not sure what you would use - blocks or a mix of concrete and angle iron.

Having looked at a number of fireplaces, we sort of still think the clean look ie: plastered/painted chimney breast, black insert stove and black heart (maybe even one with a small curved to the front) is what we want.
Like everyone money is tight so have to watch the budget.

Any advice or comments welcome.

WW

Hi,

I would question the advice as the manufacturers of the stoves usually recommend the flue diameter is the same as the spigot off the stove.

I know Esse have one simple to install model that requires the traditional fire back to be left in place (similar to the TR4).

Ask for the HETAS guide on the stove installation, many sales staff are told not to advise on lining the existing flue with 904 grade stainless steel liner back filled vermiculite / perlite as it increases the cost of installation often causing the sale of the stove to fall through.

.

white_westie · 16-10-2011 10:35PM

Pete

Don't really want to get into a discussion on the flue lining debate here, but am aware of the issues, its just that all the 'experts' seem to contradict each other too much. No more like cleaning/inspecting the chimney, its something I need to consider further, and take into account the associated costs. As a retailer yourself (I assume from your website!), what advice do you give to potential purchasers of 5KW inset stoves?

For the moment just trying to feel my way as to what's what out there in the market, how much it costs and really what are the options.

You suggestion re the HETAS (UK organisation!) guide on the stove installation, I assume that's the manufacturers installation manual?
Currently not able to find one for Aarrow EB5 or Esse 301 inset but will be emailing or ringing UK in the next few days.

WW

Qualitymark · 16-10-2011 11:03PM

Check how much it will be to replace the baffle if it burns out, by the way.

And check what kind of plaster you'll need - I seem to remember they used a special heat-proof plaster around my stove. I think they also put a flexible steel flue of quite heavy gauge down the chimney, then carefully lined the chimney with heat proof lining too. And they put a baffle on top of the chimney so birds couldn't nest there.

PeteHeat · 17-10-2011 01:22AM

white_westie wrote: »

Pete

Don't really want to get into a discussion on the flue lining debate here, but am aware of the issues, its just that all the 'experts' seem to contradict each other too much. No more like cleaning/inspecting the chimney, its something I need to consider further, and take into account the associated costs. As a retailer yourself (I assume from your website!), what advice do you give to potential purchasers of 5KW inset stoves?

For the moment just trying to feel my way as to what's what out there in the market, how much it costs and really what are the options.

You suggestion re the HETAS (UK organisation!) guide on the stove installation, I assume that's the manufacturers installation manual?
Currently not able to find one for Aarrow EB5 or Esse 301 inset but will be emailing or ringing UK in the next few days.

WW

Hi,

The Hetas guides are very relevant as Part J of our Building Regs are almost a copy of the same UK regs, the big difference is the UK have practical building control officers who police the standards of installation to ensure they meet the regulations.

That does not stop D.I.Y. installations in the UK, it does meen the local council will send out the building control officer for a fee (which I'm sure varies) of £250.00 to certify D.I.Y. installation, or the homeowner can use a HETAS reg installer and he can issue a cert for the installation.

Without the compliance cert the homeowner's insurance is nothing more than a worthless piece of paper, the reasons being Carbon Monoxide, Flue condensate that turns into creosote and the inevetible chimney fires that crack chimneys and can burn down houses (among others).

My advice for a 5 Kw stove is (among other points):

A) Ensure there is sufficient ventilation in the room for combustion air.

Ensure the flue is no greater diameter than the stove spigot.

C) Use 904 flexible liner where needed and insulate the space between the liner and the old flue.

D) Ensure the hearth is properly constructed and sized to suit the stove using the building regs as a minimum guide (make it wider than the stove with the door fully open).

I do not agree with flue adapters to the point that as a retailer I refuse to sell them (more potential sales / money lost), Yes I agree with following safe practices whether they come from the UK or USA, life is too precious to throw away for the sake of another order.

Regarding manuals send me an email and I will send them to you, I am not looking for the sale just a safe installation.

Opinions will always differ among the different retailers until the regulations are enforced some are "box movers" and others are professionals who look passed that one sale.

And what Qualitymark said.

.

white_westie · 17-10-2011 09:55AM

Pete
Just a quick visit.
Many thanks for your response (especially at such an early/late hour) - your 1st 2 paragraphs echo my current sentiments.
Located manual for Esse 301 on their site (missed it initially), and have just received copy of manual from aarrow technical support.
Need to do some reading now.

Your advice for 5KW stove - does it equally apply to the 2 inset models that I am considering?

WW

Valleys · 10-02-2012 11:23PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Fitted into an old horrible 70,s style red brick stove that was in the house when I bought it.The minute I saw the fireplace,I knew it had to go.

Chimney breast was taken apart and rebuilt by the builder,to suit the Stovax stove,this was part of a big house renovation/extension project.

Chimney was then lined with twin wall stainless flexi flue,filled with vermiculite and anti down draught/anti bird cowl too.

As far as I can remember,it cost around 2.5-3k euro for the Stove,sourcing the flue kit,installing it,chimney demolition and then rebuild.

Chimney breast has fireproof plasterboard and high temp plaster as a finish coat,and hasnt cracked from the heat of the stove.

Hi Paddy
When you say your builder built up the chimney breast, was it a false chimney breast or block bases and then you put fireboard around it. What type of fireboard? I have just put in a stovax as an inset stove in a false chimney and had problems as only single flue used with pink gypsum fireboard. I've pulled that down and am putting in twin flue and supalux board around it. My concern now is whether I should be putting some insulation around the twin flue, installer suggested Rockwool around appliance and around twin flue going through attic. Stovax said no to around appliance but wondering whether you think it should go through attic or not? And how far if you know the twin flue should be from the wall behind the flue with the supalux board on it. Sorry for all the questions and but there is so much contradictory information out there. I would value your opinion or others on the matter, thanks in advance

Valleys · 11-02-2012 01:51AM

sooty_soupy wrote: »

Hi Hashey,

the Riva 66 instruction will clearly state that the chimney breast needs to be plastered with heat resistant screed. We couldn't get it easily, so we used a sheet of 12mm masterboard fitted to the wall with the hole cut through for the unit to sit on the concrete plinth we built above the log store. This was painted with heat resistant paint and it has worked well with our Riva 55 for years. I wouldn't pack with rockwool, as this restricts air movement which helps keep the back of the unit cool. The air will be drawn under the stove and it is then vented out through the top using convection currents, which so many inset stoves utilise. With the bigger Riva products, this heat can also be ducted to other rooms if needed and this can all be encouraged with optional electric fans.

You should think about steel lining with insulation as it is possible that the existing clay liners may not have insulation around them, but as Peter says, it is unlikley this is the full cause, but it could only help. Read the other posts on reducing the diameter of the flue to suit the appliance.

Best regards

David

Hello David
You mention about the air movement that keeps the bakc of the units cool. Is this due to the vent underneath the unit? Also how far should the back of the inset stove be from the back of the wall nd in turn the twin Skin flue itself be from the wall behind it
Thanks for your time

cranefly · 09-04-2012 04:21AM

hey guys, just read most of these issues regarding inset stoves, alot of people on this thread seem to have a vested interest in one type of stove and what else is needed for that stove, seeing a stove lit in a shop might help some people to decide this is the best thing since sliced bread, for me the only way to know if something you buy is any good is to talk to people who have actually bought the thing and have it installed in there homes, a good few people have done this on this site and there input was invaluable to me in deciding which stove to buy, we had a back boiler in our old fireplace, so needed an inset stove with a boiler to heat hot water and rads to compliment ofch, after reading alot of peoples views on this and other sites we went with esse 350 greenswitch. i asked a neighbour who recently got an inset installed who he got his from, the work was first class, so i got in touch with southern stoves in cork, they sourced the esse and installed it, i have to say i could not be more happy with the stove and the work they did, it heats all the rads in the house 13 in all, about 90 percent as hot as the oil if you keep a good fire going for first 2 hours, it uses about the same amount of coal as the old fireplace did but heats the whole house not just one room, i for one am happy to recommend stoves over open fireplaces, no draughts for one thing, i think most stoves will do what they say on the tin, i would recommend a good installer, and you cant beat word of mouth for good installers.

cranefly · 09-04-2012 04:32AM

hey guys, just read most of these issues regarding inset stoves, alot of people on this thread seem to have a vested interest in one type of stove and what else is needed for that stove, seeing a stove lit in a shop might help some people to decide this is the best thing since sliced bread, for me the only way to know if something you buy is any good is to talk to people who have actually bought the thing and have it installed in there homes, a good few people have done this on this site and there input was invaluable to me in deciding which stove to buy, we had a back boiler in our old fireplace, so needed an inset stove with a boiler to heat hot water and rads to compliment ofch, after reading alot of peoples views on this and other sites we went with esse 350 greenswitch. i asked a neighbour who recently got an inset installed who he got his from, the work was first class, so i got in touch with southern stoves in cork, they sourced the esse and installed it, i have to say i could not be more happy with the stove and the work they did, it heats all the rads in the house 13 in all, about 90 percent as hot as the oil if you keep a good fire going for first 2 hours, it uses about the same amount of coal as the old fireplace did but heats the whole house not just one room, i for one am happy to recommend stoves over open fireplaces, no draughts for one thing, i think most stoves will do what they say on the tin, i would recommend a good installer, and you cant beat word of mouth for good installers.

Inset Stove

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