Proposing to him

Sleepy · 24-03-2011 03:28PM

curlzy wrote: »

WOW!!! I'd expect that kind of sexism in AFTER HOURS where it's at least said in jest so it's not too bad but to be saying this in PI is just shocking. I'm very surprised at you all, never would have pegged anyone in PI as sexist!!!!

ztoical wrote: »

Something has clearly happened to you most likely related to family court and it's made you very very bitter. I hope you'll be able to move past it someday and can learn to not tar 50% of the populations on the actions of a few.

I apologise if my realism conflicts with your sunshine, lollipops and rainbows view of the world.

Assuming the OP's boyfriend is Irish, and assuming he's not in the very, very small minority of Irish guys who wouldn't feel emasculated or like they were being very publicly told to "put a ring on it" he's not going to appreciate her proposing.

Obviously, she knows him, and more importantly their relationship, better than any of us but even if he's okay with it, it'll still be something he'll be ribbed about by his mates for the next decade.

curlzy · 24-03-2011 03:48PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I apologise if my realism conflicts with your sunshine, lollipops and rainbows view of the world.

Assuming the OP's boyfriend is Irish, and assuming he's not in the very, very small minority of Irish guys who wouldn't feel emasculated or like they were being very publicly told to "put a ring on it" he's not going to appreciate her proposing.

Obviously, she knows him, and more importantly their relationship, better than any of us but even if he's okay with it, it'll still be something he'll be ribbed about by his mates for the next decade.

Wow Mr SARCASMO!! Your power of sexism is epic!!! Maybe you think women walk around viewing the world as full of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows but if you get of your misogynistic horse for a minute you might realise that the OP's guy might be man enough to put up with "ribbing by his mates". Just because you'd run crying to mammy if your friends slagged you does not everyone bows to peer pressure. Don't make nasty assumptions about people based on your own ignorance and arrogance, it's just irritating and takes away from any of the more valid points in your arguments :rolleyes:

Sleepy · 24-03-2011 04:17PM

How am I sexist in telling you that your view is naieve? You made your gender an issue, not me. I'm not the only one saying that the vast majority of men in this country don't want to be proposed to. In fact, metrovelvet that you quoted in your initial post is a woman so realism isn't solely a male trait.

Maybe the OP's boyfriend is in the minority who wouldn't mind being proposed to. Maybe she's the one with most to lose if the marriage goes wrong and would end up paying him spousal support whilst he raised any kids they might have and allow her to take them to McDonalds at the weekend. Without those details, however, we have to base our assumptions on the societal norms of the culture we live in and they're quite different to that scenario.

Not once have I said that I approve of the status quo by the way. I don't.

In an ideal world where men and women were truly equal in all aspects of life and society, I'd have no problem with being proposed to. We have most of the legislation in place to help create that world but unfortunately it seems it'll be a long time before the feminist lobby groups allow politicians to remove those areas where men are discriminated against and sadly, that means it'll be an even longer time before society catches up with the legal framework.

And I assure you, I'm far less susceptible to peer pressure than the average Irish person. If I wasn't, I'd see the status quo as perfectly acceptable.

Count Duckula · 24-03-2011 04:25PM

He's not implying that all women are naive, just you. And if anyone is getting nasty here with personal attacks and unpleasant barbs it's probably you.

He's not saying it's right that the man proposes; he's just saying that's the way it is and how most men like it to be. Which is true.

Perhaps the OP's man is one of these men that would like it, but in my experience men like that tend to be very obvious about not minding - and if it were that obvious the OP wouldn't feel the need to ask about it on an internet forum.

It's not misogynistic to suggest that most men wouldn't like it. It would be misogynistic to suggest that it should be that way, but he's not doing that - he's merely pointing out that the simple fact is that a lot of men would hate being proposed to.

And I genuinely struggle to see how someone who can despise tradition so much that they'll get this worked up over who proposes to who can even believe in the institution of marriage at all, since at its very core it's something that regards women as property to be passed from one man to another.

curlzy · 24-03-2011 04:45PM

Count Duckula wrote: »

He's not implying that all women are naive, just you. And if anyone is getting nasty here with personal attacks and unpleasant barbs it's probably you.

He's not saying it's right that the man proposes; he's just saying that's the way it is and how most men like it to be. Which is true.

Perhaps the OP's man is one of these men that would like it, but in my experience men like that tend to be very obvious about not minding - and if it were that obvious the OP wouldn't feel the need to ask about it on an internet forum.

It's not misogynistic to suggest that most men wouldn't like it. It would be misogynistic to suggest that it should be that way, but he's not doing that - he's merely pointing out that the simple fact is that a lot of men would hate being proposed to.

And I genuinely struggle to see how someone who can despise tradition so much that they'll get this worked up over who proposes to who can even believe in the institution of marriage at all, since at its very core it's something that regards women as property to be passed from one man to another.

I didn't say it was misogynistic to suggest most men wouldn't like it, it was misogynisitic to say that women see the world as full of rainbows and that men get nothing out of marraige while saying that all women want to get married earlier than men but...Yeah whatever, I'm really not arsed debating this with you guys any further, you can go on thinking I'm naive, I'll go on thinking you're sexist. Everyone's a winner.

OP,
If you're still following this thread

can you give us any more info??? Is your guy a traditional manly man-man or is he more enlightened and liberated? Like do you think he would like to be proposed to? IMO this all comes down to the guy, if he has an ounce of sense he certainly won't see it as cutting his nuts off. If you think it's something he'll like then have a good think about what he's find funny or cute or sexy (a proposal can be sexy right?). Like myself if I were going to propose to my guy I'd buy him a new computer console and put a diamond engagement ring in the box with a note telling him to come upstairs where I'd be wearing..... you know what the rest of that is private

but you get the idea. I wonder could you bounce the idea off him in a less than obvious way, like mention that some girl in work had done it and go "how modern of her! I don't know though, do you think that's a bit odd?" although he might see through that. Either way OP without knowing him it's really really hard to say. I think you can see the opinions here are really split so I'd say have a good oul think on it and maybe sound him out if you can. For all you know he could be totally blown away by it and touched. Either way, weigh it up carefully and take you time.

chillywilly · 24-03-2011 04:55PM

curlzy wrote: »

I didn't say it was misogynistic to suggest most men wouldn't like it, it was misogynisitic to say that women see the world as full of rainbows

Just to point out, the poster said you see the world that way, not women.

Fluorescence · 24-03-2011 05:02PM

Since when did PI become Humanities? :pac: Lots of threads getting derailed around here lately.

I'd be curious to hear more from the OP about what kind of person her boyfriend is. That way we could better gauge his possible reaction and come up with some more meaningful proposal ideas?

Sleepy · 24-03-2011 05:11PM

curlzy wrote: »

Yeah whatever, I'm really not arsed debating this with you guys any further, you can go on thinking I'm naive, I'll go on thinking you're sexist. Everyone's a winner.

You read things into my posts that weren't there and attacked me for them curlzy. If you call putting your fingers in your ears while screaming "la la la, not listening" instead of learning to recognise your mistakes and apologise for them being a winner, you've a lot to learn about life.

Maple · 24-03-2011 05:13PM

fluorescence wrote: »

Since when did PI become Humanities?

My thoughts exactly.

Folks, please let's not turn this into a gender war/sexism debate. If people don't rein in the hostility bans will be handed out.

Maple

LegacyUser · 24-03-2011 05:23PM

<snip>

OP, I'm at odds as to what you should do, to be honest. From a male point of view, I would have always viewed the whole debacle as it being a case of the woman is generally ready and it's mostly waiting on the man to be ready, then he'll go and propose when so.

Does that mean I think he's not ready? Not particularly, but it certainly is a pretty large possibility. If I were you, I would suggest feeling out the situation and getting a very strong read on him, because if you propose and he says no, it'll be a bigger issue than if it were the opposite way around. From my gut feeling I would be inclined to say do not to it though, to be absolutely honest with you.

Have you discussed marriage with him at all previously? Or his views on marriage? I know an increasing amount of people who don't want a "traditional" marriage, are you certain he's interested in this? If he is interested in a traditional marriage, he most likely holds the belief that the man should be the one proposing. If so, he may very well not take it well if you propose to him. Extending this, if he's interested in marriage and by extension, believes it should be the man proposing, what would this lead you to believe about him wanting this right now?

All things considered, I think it's a bad idea. If you want to find out, find a movie where the woman proposes and casually watch it together, gauge his reaction to it through that. Again though, I would steer clear.

Best of luck regardless.

metrovelvet · 24-03-2011 07:05PM

Sleepy wrote: »

How am I sexist in telling you that your view is naieve? You made your gender an issue, not me. I'm not the only one saying that the vast majority of men in this country don't want to be proposed to. In fact, metrovelvet that you quoted in your initial post is a woman so realism isn't solely a male trait.

Maybe the OP's boyfriend is in the minority who wouldn't mind being proposed to. Maybe she's the one with most to lose if the marriage goes wrong and would end up paying him spousal support whilst he raised any kids they might have and allow her to take them to McDonalds at the weekend. Without those details, however, we have to base our assumptions on the societal norms of the culture we live in and they're quite different to that scenario.

Not once have I said that I approve of the status quo by the way. I don't.

In an ideal world where men and women were truly equal in all aspects of life and society, I'd have no problem with being proposed to. We have most of the legislation in place to help create that world but unfortunately it seems it'll be a long time before the feminist lobby groups allow politicians to remove those areas where men are discriminated against and sadly, that means it'll be an even longer time before society catches up with the legal framework.

And I assure you, I'm far less susceptible to peer pressure than the average Irish person. If I wasn't, I'd see the status quo as perfectly acceptable.

Ok. I am of the belief that things really have not changed all that much, and even if the courts are no longer handing out golden tickets, and sometimes they hand it out the other way too lets face it, the PERCEPTION that they do in favour of the woman is still in the stronghold.

So when a man says 'will you marry me?' he is saying "I trust you enough that you wont divorce me and make me homeless' which doesn't happen anymore, but they think it does, so you have to take that on board. He is also taking on responsibility for any future children you may have, he is also giving his name to you, etc. So I'm unprogressive opinion on marriage [which is an instutition caught somewhere in time,] you should let the man do the proposal.

At a push you could express that you would be very pleased if he proposed to you.

Ickle Magoo · 24-03-2011 08:44PM

Please stop turning PI threads into debates, that is not the purpose of this forum.

Offer the OP advice or don't post at all.

If you have an issue with another post or poster use the report function and if you want to get into a to-and-fro debate with another poster then use the PM function.

Thanks

24-03-2011 09:20PM

It's not at all sexist to say that a woman proposing would emasculate the man. It's true and the way we've been raised, but this is a different topic.

OP, you know your boyfriend the best. If you honestly think he will marry you and won't mind being proposed to then, by all means go for it.

elefant · 24-03-2011 09:33PM

I'm a guy, and though I'd prefer to be the one that proposed, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if I was proposed to!

It just depends on the person I guess. I imagine you should be able to tell from his character whether it would bother him or not.

Sleepy · 25-03-2011 12:37PM

It's one thing to ask a man about whether he's ready to get married, sitting down and discussing it. I don't think any man would have a problem with that. So it's not a case of
"bide her time and pray to God that at some point he will ask her".

Actually going the whole route of a "proposal" (particularly a public proposal), on the other hand, will be considered emasculating by most men and may lead them to, as sunflower27 puts it, "run for the hills" whether they had a mind to marry their partner or not. Right or Wrong, most guys will consider it embaressing at best and disrespectful at worst.

Count Duckula · 25-03-2011 12:55PM

True enough, Sunflower, but for a lot of men if they were in love with her and wanted to marry her then they'd likely have asked beforehand themselves!

curlzy · 25-03-2011 01:03PM

Hey OP,

I asked my boyfriend last night what he would do if I proposed, he said he'd find it surprising but wouldn't be shocked or upset and he would say yes. I told him about this thread and he said it really depends on the guy, some guys like to "toe the party line" as it were and would be afraid of what other guys would think. Men like my boyfriend, who hand on heart never gives a **** what other people think of his private life, would find it novel and if you do it well, very romantic. I honestly think it depends on your guy, my guy loves kittens and cuddles and has been known to cry at sad films, so he's in touch with his feminine side I suppose, but then he's 6'4" and quite built so he can afford to be if you know what I mean. He's very very comfortable in his masculinity. Now don't get me wrong, if a guy doesn't like the idea it doesn't necessarily mean he's a wimp who'll bow to peer pressure, he may just like the idea of giving you a lovely romantic proposal and you could rain on his parade. But yeah as everyone's been saying, it depends on your guy. I think if I was going to do it I'd go all out. Like write "will you marry me?" in colour clothe in a field and then go over it in a hot air balloon or something like that. I'd say I'd have fun with it which ever way I decided to do it.

Best of luck.

Sleepy · 25-03-2011 02:04PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

And any man in love with his partner and who does want to marry her is not going to run away if she proposes to him. That's ridiculous thinking.

I know guys who would consider it such a disrespectful thing to do that they'd reconsider marrying the girl.

As a gender we're stubborn. Push us towards something and we'll often bolt the other way whether the end result was what we wanted or not.

metrovelvet · 25-03-2011 02:42PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I know guys who would consider it such a disrespectful thing to do that they'd reconsider marrying the girl.

As a gender we're stubborn. Push us towards something and we'll often bolt the other way whether the end result was what we wanted or not.

Are you suggesting that if the OP proposes it will be read as pushy because shes a woman, but if he proposes it's something else?

You might actually deprive yourself of something you want because you read it as being pushy? Am I reading that correctly? ...just trying to understand...not arguing...

Chucky the tree · 25-03-2011 02:52PM

I'm a guy and it wouldn't bother me at all. Sure I'd be delighted due to the fact it's considered not the done thing so it would make it all the more special knowing she took the risk. Then again I'm not a delicate little flower that worries about what the lads down the pub or people in work would think.

Permabear · 25-03-2011 03:15PM

This post has been deleted.

curlzy · 25-03-2011 03:56PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm a guy and it wouldn't bother me at all. Sure I'd be delighted due to the fact it's considered not the done thing so it would make it all the more special knowing she took the risk. Then again I'm not a delicate little flower that worries about what the lads down the pub or people in work would think.

Ah, you and Elefant are a breathe of fresh air, fair play to you! It's so nice to see some people that can think for themselves and not worry about what other people make of their life decisions. In my eyes that's the mark of a real man, both of you will make excellent husbands in due course I'm sure

.

Ickle Magoo · 25-03-2011 07:41PM

curlzy, keep it on topic and useful to the OP - and stop with the passive aggressive flaming of other posters.

Many thanks.

Sleepy · 25-03-2011 09:17PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

Are you suggesting that if the OP proposes it will be read as pushy because shes a woman, but if he proposes it's something else?

You might actually deprive yourself of something you want because you read it as being pushy? Am I reading that correctly? ...just trying to understand...not arguing...

I'm not speaking about my own beliefs, I'm talking about the general attitude of many guys I know.

Sleepy · 25-03-2011 09:17PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

A man that would throw away years of a happy, fulfilling relationship because I woman took control of her life and future is hardly a catch anyway, IMO.

If you can't be 'pushy' about the direction of your life, when can you be?

I'd tend to agree.

Most Irish men wouldn't though and with a lack of details about the OP's boyfriend, I'm making the assumption he's a typical Irish guy.

magneticimpulse · 25-03-2011 11:05PM

its 2011 and I think this is a wonderful idea.

People all too complain about how women shouldnt wait for the guy to make the 1st move for a date....that women should equally ask a guy out. That women should not just wait for text from guys etc. That women should not just expect the man to pay for meals/drinks on nights out.

Seriously I wish there were more women like you OP....I think its really great of you to propose to the guy you love. If he loves you he will of course say yes

OP I think you need to give more info about your guy? You could do it low key and cook him dinner and propose at home. Just keep it simple and romantic

metrovelvet · 26-03-2011 11:42AM

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm not speaking about my own beliefs, I'm talking about the general attitude of many guys I know.

I didnt mean "YOU' as in the personal you.

While I think it is better practise to let the guy do it, I find the other attitude [the one you mentioned] bizarrely self destructive in that a man could actually turn down something he wants just because its born of a deviation from traditional protocols.

Ickle Magoo · 26-03-2011 02:28PM

metrovelvet, final warning, you want to direct posts at other posters, PM them. This thread is for offering advice to the OP - and that doesn't mean continuing debate with other posters and throwing a token line to the OP at the end.

missgroovy21 · 08-04-2011 06:42PM

I think the guys ego would be hit if u proposed!!!!

I like the idea of dropping major hints though...try that!!!!

Proposing to him

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