Proposing to him

collegegal

Hi guys, was on here a while back regarding an issue I was going through, thankfully with all your great advice things worked out and we have been as strong in our relationship as ever. My reason for the thread today is I'm looking for ideas on proposing to my boyfriend. I know its not really the 'done' thing to do, but I would like your opinion. Heck if you have the time, throw in a few suggestions on how I would do it! Guys, how would you feel if your girlfriend proposed, would you feel ok about it or would you prefer to do it yourself?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Johnny Favourite

I think most blokes would do it themselves if they really wanted to get married.

Fluorescence

You know your boyfriend best, so you're most able to guess what his reaction would be. If he's super traditional he might feel snubbed that he didn't get the chance to go down on one knee... If not though, go for it! It could be a lot of fun

As for suggestions, just think of little in-jokes between the pair of ye and try to come up with something around that. Something sweet and meaningful, that you'll always be able to look back on fondly.

Azureus

I think the cutest proposal ever was the post-it note in Greys Anatomy (if you dont watch it, sorry!).

By this I mean that its so personal to the couple that are doing it. In my view it doesnt matter if it is the guy or the girl or how big or small the gesture is, but that its relevant and appropriate to the couple thats involved.

I would never propose to my boyfriend, because its just not ''us''. If he were to do it (and he says he knows how he is going to if he ever does), then I can imagine it being very us-specific. Each relationship is unique and you know best what works for the two of you (and if you dont, then scrap the idea altogether! )

Go for it with your own little twist and good luck!

tinkerbell

Only do it if you know that he would be comfortable with you doing the proposing. I know that my boyfriend wouldn't like the idea of me proposing to him as he feels it's traditional for the guy to ask the girl, so there is no way I would ever propose!! And I would imagine a lot of guys feel that way. But then there might be a lot of guys who are ok with the idea of the girl proposing. Only you know your boyfriend though and what he would like.

Sleepy

Personally, I wouldn't like it. If and when I want to propose I'll do it.

Chinafoot

Johnny Favourite wrote: »

I think most blokes would do it themselves if they really wanted to get married.

Sleepy wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't like it. If and when I want to propose I'll do it.

I will never understand this. The woman wants to propose so why shouldn't she? Because it's not the done thing? So what? If and when you want to propose/get married you'll do it. Well the OP wants to propose/get married so why can't she do it? Without wanting to turn this into a gender argument, it shouldn't be up to the man to dictate when an engagement/marriage happens. If he doesn't want to get engaged he can say no.

OP, as another poster said, you know your boyfriend best so it's hard to give tips on how you should do it. A girl I used to work with proposed to her boyfriend. They were on holidays and she had bought him a really nice watch he had been thinking of buying and had it engraved with "will you marry me?". He loved it. They had been together years and she decided the time was right so she asked.

Best of luck with it! I hope he says yes.

tenchi-fan

But you're a girl...

Your job is to drop ridiculously obvious hints and hope he picks up on one of them.

This might go as far as shopping for engagement rings and pointing out the one you want. Then wait til the next bank holiday and see if he says "we should do something this weekend"

I don't know the guy but I doubt being put on the spot will make him say "yes".

Maple

Tenchi-fan, less of the casual sexism please.

Maple

MrMojoRising

Chinafoot wrote: »

I will never understand this. The woman wants to propose so why shouldn't she?

Because the man asking is the way its always been done, and womens lib or not, its the way it'll always be.

fwiw - I wouldn't like my g/f proposing to me either.

Chinafoot

MrMojoRising wrote: »

Because the man asking is the way its always been done, and womens lib or not, its the way it'll always be.

Well its clearly not the way "its always been done" since there are women who exist who have proposed to their partners. Women being owned by men was how it was "always done" in some parts of the world. Similar to white people owning black slaves. Things change. Its nothing to do with women's lib. Its about the girl asking the person she loves to become her husband. It doesn't emasculate a man, and if you think it does then I feel sorry for you tbh.

MrMojoRising

Chinafoot wrote: »

Well its clearly not the way "its always been done" since there are women who exist who have proposed to their partners. Women being owned by men was how it was "always done" in some parts of the world. Similar to white people owning black slaves. Things change. Its nothing to do with women's lib. Its about the girl asking the person she loves to become her husband. It doesn't emasculate a man, and if you think it does then I feel sorry for you tbh.

emasculate a man? lol
woah there, take it easy now.

marriage is steeped in tradition, thats what i was referring to when saying its always the way its been. (yes of course there's been exceptions to the rule, just like there always is)

your slanted interpretation of what i said says a lot about you tbh, and if anything, i feel sorry for you

chillywilly

I'm just giving my own male opinion here but personally I would not want my girlfriend to propose to me. Reason being is that I know that if I asked my girlfriend tomorrow I know my girlfriend would says yes, but I'm just not ready to get married yet. If my girlfriend asked me tomorrow I would feel very uncomfortable.

Apart from tradition, possibly the reason men ask the women is because generally women want to marry earlier than men and they usually wait 'til the man is ready to propose(sorry for the generalisation, don't mean to offend anyone!). It is my opinion that men want to "settle down" later on than women.

Of course, it is up to you if you do and depends on what your boyfriend is like, what you guys have been through, where you are in your relationship etc. But personally speaking I would not like it.

Good luck what ever you do

LegacyUser

Jaysus, lads, ye're being a real pain! Total begrudgery - 'No, doesn't suit me to get tied down now, I'll wait till there's no fun left being single, mutter mutter, if she has the gall to ask me I'll put her in her place, mutter mutter, she can sit there till I'm good and ready, has she the dinner on yet?'

The OP loves her boyfriend and wants to marry him. That's wonderful!! Cheer her on!!!

Of course she should ask him, what higher compliment could she pay him?

OP, I don't know what ideas to give you. I asked my fella, but we had been talking about it for a while anyway, so it just followed (in bed, as it happened...)

Let the thought sit with you for a while, and something that fits will occur to you.

All the best!

Lady von Purple

The watch proposal story is really nice. Women get a ring when a man proposes, it might be nice to have something to give him. A watch is a really lovely idea for that, particularly with an engraving like that. Good luck OP, you know your boyfriend better than the posters here so I'm sure you know what you're doing. Hope it all goes well!

Sleepy

Chinafoot wrote: »

I will never understand this. The woman wants to propose so why shouldn't she? Because it's not the done thing? So what? If and when you want to propose/get married you'll do it. Well the OP wants to propose/get married so why can't she do it? Without wanting to turn this into a gender argument, it shouldn't be up to the man to dictate when an engagement/marriage happens. If he doesn't want to get engaged he can say no.

OP, as another poster said, you know your boyfriend best so it's hard to give tips on how you should do it. A girl I used to work with proposed to her boyfriend. They were on holidays and she had bought him a really nice watch he had been thinking of buying and had it engraved with "will you marry me?". He loved it. They had been together years and she decided the time was right so she asked.

Best of luck with it! I hope he says yes.

Because like it or not, in general, a marriage confers rights on a woman and responsibilities on a man.

The only legal advantages to marriage for most men are automatic guardianship of any children the couple have (and we all know how little guardianship is worth in an Irish Family Law Court) and tax advantages if he's supporting the woman.

Being proposed to by a woman (who, in general, marriage will be more important to) is the equivalent of someone asking you to give them a very expensive present that you'll be paying to maintain for the rest of your life regardless of how the relationship progresses.

When men and women are treated equally by the family courts I'll have no problem with women proposing. To be fair, in circumstances where the woman has more to lose from the marriage going wrong (e.g. she's in a significantly better financial position than the man), I wouldn't be against her proposing but in current Irish society this is rare given the career choices of the respective genders.

metrovelvet

I said this on TLL a while ago on a similar thread.

It's the last decision a man will ever make. Let him do it.

ElleEm

I don't know many men that would appreciate their girlfriend proposing, my partner included.
We discussed it before, and he said that thinks it's the man's job to propose, as they have been conditioned to believe this. He said that he would feel emasculated if his "job" was taken away.
We know a couple where the girl proposed to the man, and years later he STILL gets slagged over it by his friends.

ztoical

Sleepy wrote: »

Because like it or not, in general, a marriage confers rights on a woman and responsibilities on a man.

The only legal advantages to marriage for most men are automatic guardianship of any children the couple have (and we all know how little guardianship is worth in an Irish Family Law Court) and tax advantages if he's supporting the woman.

Being proposed to by a woman (who, in general, marriage will be more important to) is the equivalent of someone asking you to give them a very expensive present that you'll be paying to maintain for the rest of your life regardless of how the relationship progresses.

When men and women are treated equally by the family courts I'll have no problem with women proposing. To be fair, in circumstances where the woman has more to lose from the marriage going wrong (e.g. she's in a significantly better financial position than the man), I wouldn't be against her proposing but in current Irish society this is rare given the career choices of the respective genders.

You are aware that the reason women get treated like they do by family court is because of views like yours about what marraige is. This view that marraige is more important for the women and that it's a being given to her as an expensive present is seriously out dated and frankly insulting. If your view is a a woman can't propose until the family courts views are changed then your going to be stuck in a never ending circle going no where. you've got a very bitter, clouded, and outdated view of women, their career options and marriage.

OP, nither my father nor my mother proposed, they jointly decided they wanted to get married...why? because that's just the way their relationship worked for them...only you know your relationship and what works for you.

chillywilly

Sybill wrote: »

Jaysus, lads, ye're being a real pain! Total begrudgery - 'No, doesn't suit me to get tied down now, I'll wait till there's no fun left being single, mutter mutter, if she has the gall to ask me I'll put her in her place, mutter mutter, she can sit there till I'm good and ready, has she the dinner on yet?'

I'm sorry but could you point out to me in the thread where someone said the above? As far as I can see most if not all men have advised the OP that men prefer to propose as opposed to the other way around. That is honest opinions and advice that should be considered!

There was no "doesn't suit me", "no fun left being single", "has the gall to ask me" "she can sit there" "has she the dinner on yet?":rolleyes:

Just because I don't want my girlfriend to propose to me doesn't mean that I think she would have "gall" to ask me or that I think she should have the dinner ready. How about reading through the advice and considering that this is what men actually think and that it might save her from shock/embarrassment if the husband wasn't ready for the proposal.

Of course it's her decision if she goes ahead with it and if she does I hope everything goes well but like it or not a lot of men wouldn't react nicely to it.

Count Duckula

Frankly, I think most men would be horrified at being proposed to. It's probably the most emasculating thing a woman could do.

Given that men are brought up being constantly told how they'll have to "pop the question" sooner or later, how it's their job and responsibility, if a woman gets down on one knee and asks the man then that's almost as if she's decided he's not masculine enough to do it himself.

Also, since society has skewed it in this way you know the man wants to marry if you he's proposed. If he hasn't proposed, he likely doesn't want to marry you yet.

I get the whole feminist argument that women should be able to do everything a man can do, such as propose, and they're right. A woman should be able to do it, and there's nothing stopping her from doing so. But nine times out of ten her boyfriend or partner is going to run a mile.

One question - if you care little enough for tradition that you'll overturn this one and propose to the man, why are you looking to get married? Marriage is nothing but pure tradition, and if anything is historically skewed more in favour of men than the mere act of proposing.

chillywilly

Count Duckula wrote: »

Frankly, I think most men would be horrified at being proposed to. It's probably the most emasculating thing a woman could do.

Given that men are brought up being constantly told how they'll have to "pop the question" sooner or later, how it's their job and responsibility, if a woman gets down on one knee and asks the man then that's almost as if she's decided he's not masculine enough to do it himself.

Also, since society has skewed it in this way you know the man wants to marry if you he's proposed. If he hasn't proposed, he likely doesn't want to marry you yet.

I get the whole feminist argument that women should be able to do everything a man can do, such as propose, and they're right. A woman should be able to do it, and there's nothing stopping her from doing so. But nine times out of ten her boyfriend or partner is going to run a mile.

One question - if you care little enough for tradition that you'll overturn this one and propose to the man, why are you looking to get married? Marriage is nothing but pure tradition, and if anything is historically skewed more in favour of men than the mere act of proposing.

Exactly! Well said old boy

Sleepy

ztoical wrote: »

You are aware that the reason women get treated like they do by family court is because of views like yours about what marraige is. This view that marraige is more important for the women and that it's a being given to her as an expensive present is seriously out dated and frankly insulting. If your view is a a woman can't propose until the family courts views are changed then your going to be stuck in a never ending circle going no where. you've got a very bitter, clouded, and outdated view of women, their career options and marriage.

Please don't mis-represent my views on the realities of marriage in Ireland as how I think it ought to be.

Men and women have equal career options in modern day Ireland. They do not, as groups, choose to exercise those options in the same way: women seem more inclined to pursue less financially rewarding careers in pursuit of careers that are more rewarding in other ways (time off, positions that give one a sense of purpose, work-life balance etc.). This is why we have a pay-gap when average earnings are compared.

Culturally, Irish women seem to desire marriage at an earlier stage of life than their male counterparts. How many threads do we see on this forum from women frustrated that their partner hasn't proposed "yet"? One a week at least? How many do we see from men looking for tips to help them convince a woman to accept their proposal? I've not seen one to date.

Family law in Ireland is perverse. A man is usually considered to be doing alright if he gets custody of his children for a night or two a week whilst maintaining his ex in the lifestyle to which she's become accustomed and living a much more frugal existance himself. That may be the ideal outcome in some cases but it seems to be the best a man can hope for!

I'd like to see a system where shared custody (week with mam, week with dad or whatever 50:50 split suits the family best) and maintenance only being paid where one partner or the other is financially incapable of supporting the children for the time they have them. This should be the default position to be altered by the courts as the circumstances of the family/case dictate.

Our current system is discriminatory. As such, a man is typically risking a lot more than a woman when pledging to share the rest of his life with her. It's *FAR* from ideal but sadly, it's the way it is and suggesting that men should be fine with being proposed to before the systems are fixed is putting the cart before the horse.

curlzy

Sleepy wrote: »

Because like it or not, in general, a marriage confers rights on a woman and responsibilities on a man.

The only legal advantages to marriage for most men are automatic guardianship of any children the couple have (and we all know how little guardianship is worth in an Irish Family Law Court) and tax advantages if he's supporting the woman.

Being proposed to by a woman (who, in general, marriage will be more important to) is the equivalent of someone asking you to give them a very expensive present that you'll be paying to maintain for the rest of your life regardless of how the relationship progresses.

When men and women are treated equally by the family courts I'll have no problem with women proposing. To be fair, in circumstances where the woman has more to lose from the marriage going wrong (e.g. she's in a significantly better financial position than the man), I wouldn't be against her proposing but in current Irish society this is rare given the career choices of the respective genders.

metrovelvet wrote: »

I said this on TLL a while ago on a similar thread.

It's the last decision a man will ever make. Let him do it.

Count Duckula wrote: »

Frankly, I think most men would be horrified at being proposed to. It's probably the most emasculating thing a woman could do.

Given that men are brought up being constantly told how they'll have to "pop the question" sooner or later, how it's their job and responsibility, if a woman gets down on one knee and asks the man then that's almost as if she's decided he's not masculine enough to do it himself.

Also, since society has skewed it in this way you know the man wants to marry if you he's proposed. If he hasn't proposed, he likely doesn't want to marry you yet.

I get the whole feminist argument that women should be able to do everything a man can do, such as propose, and they're right. A woman should be able to do it, and there's nothing stopping her from doing so. But nine times out of ten her boyfriend or partner is going to run a mile.

One question - if you care little enough for tradition that you'll overturn this one and propose to the man, why are you looking to get married? Marriage is nothing but pure tradition, and if anything is historically skewed more in favour of men than the mere act of proposing.

WOW!!! I'd expect that kind of sexism in AFTER HOURS where it's at least said in jest so it's not too bad but to be saying this in PI is just shocking. I'm very surprised at you all, never would have pegged anyone in PI as sexist!!!!

Count Duckula

I'd rather put across a "sexist" opinion than one that is horribly naive.

What should we do? Tell the OP to go for it? I'm sure there are plenty of vocal people on this forum who would do exactly that, since this forum seems to have more than its fair share of feminist keyboard warriors.

Now, in a totally equal world, she would be able to propose to her man and there'd be no issues. But this isn't a totally equal world, nor is this a thread in the humanities forum discussing the abstract rights and wrongs of proposing being a man's job.

This is the personal issues forum, and she wants help with a personal issue. Thus the answers we give need to be based in the solid fact of reality in the outside world. Yes, it would be lovely if she proposed and no one thought anything odd about it and everyone lived happily ever after, but the reality is that a lot (and I mean a huge, huge majority) of men would be completely and utterly put off by their women proposing.

That's unfair, yes, and perhaps something needs to be done to address it, but the OP - someone in an awkward situation just looking for advice - does not need to be that person. She wants to know whether proposing will upset her man, and (unfair as it may be) yes, it probably will.

Fluorescence

It might be worth considering that if your boyfriend is a particularly romantic or traditional type, he may already have planned out a proposal in his head. If so it might be quite disappointing for him if he doesn't get the chance for an extravagant romantic gesture.

Again, you're the one who knows him. We can only speculate.

ztoical

Sleepy wrote: »

Please don't mis-represent my views on the realities of marriage in Ireland as how I think it ought to be.

Men and women have equal career options in modern day Ireland. They do not, as groups, choose to exercise those options in the same way: women seem more inclined to pursue less financially rewarding careers in pursuit of careers that are more rewarding in other ways (time off, positions that give one a sense of purpose, work-life balance etc.). This is why we have a pay-gap when average earnings are compared.

Culturally, Irish women seem to desire marriage at an earlier stage of life than their male counterparts. How many threads do we see on this forum from women frustrated that their partner hasn't proposed "yet"? One a week at least? How many do we see from men looking for tips to help them convince a woman to accept their proposal? I've not seen one to date.

Family law in Ireland is perverse. A man is usually considered to be doing alright if he gets custody of his children for a night or two a week whilst maintaining his ex in the lifestyle to which she's become accustomed and living a much more frugal existance himself. That may be the ideal outcome in some cases but it seems to be the best a man can hope for!

I'd like to see a system where shared custody (week with mam, week with dad or whatever 50:50 split suits the family best) and maintenance only being paid where one partner or the other is financially incapable of supporting the children for the time they have them. This should be the default position to be altered by the courts as the circumstances of the family/case dictate.

Our current system is discriminatory. As such, a man is typically risking a lot more than a woman when pledging to share the rest of his life with her. It's *FAR* from ideal but sadly, it's the way it is and suggesting that men should be fine with being proposed to before the systems are fixed is putting the cart before the horse.

Something has clearly happened to you most likely related to family court and it's made you very very bitter. I hope you'll be able to move past it someday and can learn to not tar 50% of the populations on the actions of a few.

metrovelvet

Sleepy wrote: »

Please don't mis-represent my views on the realities of marriage in Ireland as how I think it ought to be.

Men and women have equal career options in modern day Ireland. They do not, as groups, choose to exercise those options in the same way: women seem more inclined to pursue less financially rewarding careers in pursuit of careers that are more rewarding in other ways (time off, positions that give one a sense of purpose, work-life balance etc.). This is why we have a pay-gap when average earnings are compared.

Culturally, Irish women seem to desire marriage at an earlier stage of life than their male counterparts. How many threads do we see on this forum from women frustrated that their partner hasn't proposed "yet"? One a week at least? How many do we see from men looking for tips to help them convince a woman to accept their proposal? I've not seen one to date.

Family law in Ireland is perverse. A man is usually considered to be doing alright if he gets custody of his children for a night or two a week whilst maintaining his ex in the lifestyle to which she's become accustomed and living a much more frugal existance himself. That may be the ideal outcome in some cases but it seems to be the best a man can hope for!

I'd like to see a system where shared custody (week with mam, week with dad or whatever 50:50 split suits the family best) and maintenance only being paid where one partner or the other is financially incapable of supporting the children for the time they have them. This should be the default position to be altered by the courts as the circumstances of the family/case dictate.

Our current system is discriminatory. As such, a man is typically risking a lot more than a woman when pledging to share the rest of his life with her. It's *FAR* from ideal but sadly, it's the way it is and suggesting that men should be fine with being proposed to before the systems are fixed is putting the cart before the horse.

I agree that men have to reason to get married anymore, other than tax breaks. There is no motive whatsoever.

However I think the old adage of being taken to the cleaners is way past its sell by date.

Speaking of sell by dates, that is the reason women want to marry earlier than men do, because they dont have as much time to piss around.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Count Duckula wrote: »

Frankly, I think most men would be horrified at being proposed to.

Definitely.

OP - will you be okay with it if he says No?

brokensoul

Have you and your OH discussed marriage?

myself and my oh decided to get married in April 2009, my OH felt that it would be very unromantic to get engaged at that stage, so we left it at him saying some day ill propose formally, but on the understanding that "some day" would be in a reasonable timeframe.

He proposed the following September and it was a total surprise on the day and really lovely.

Maybe if you and your OH could agree that you are on the same page regarding marriage that would reassure you, and your OH would still have the chance to propose formally.

I have to say, even though i knew he would ask me, it still came as an awful shock when he did. A lovely shock, but still a shock.

RileyCoyote

tenchi-fan wrote: »

But you're a girl...

Your job is to drop ridiculously obvious hints and hope he picks up on one of them.

This raises an interesting point, even if it was meant to be sarcastic - that is, proposing marriage often seems to be a rhetorical question. People have usually gotten enough vibes from their partner to be pretty sure that the answer is going to be 'yes'. The person that proposes is seen as the one who is taking the initiative, but in reality, its often the other person who has first broached the subject of marriage.

OP, I wouldn't dissuade you from proposing just because you are the girl and he's the guy. It may well be appropriate in your relationship. If he's been dropping hints, and making noises about settling down, and you've expressed cold feet in the past, it would be lovely of you to turn the tables and propose.

However, if you've made your feelings clear already, I'd say the ball's in his court - and that's the same advice I'd give to a guy considering a proposal, or a to a gay man or a lesbian considering a proposal.

Ideas for a proposal - I'm not very romantic, if it was me I'd probably just go "Do you want to get married? To me? Will I phone the registry office so?" Sorry I can't be more help on that front!

Sleepy

curlzy wrote: »

WOW!!! I'd expect that kind of sexism in AFTER HOURS where it's at least said in jest so it's not too bad but to be saying this in PI is just shocking. I'm very surprised at you all, never would have pegged anyone in PI as sexist!!!!

ztoical wrote: »

Something has clearly happened to you most likely related to family court and it's made you very very bitter. I hope you'll be able to move past it someday and can learn to not tar 50% of the populations on the actions of a few.

I apologise if my realism conflicts with your sunshine, lollipops and rainbows view of the world.

Assuming the OP's boyfriend is Irish, and assuming he's not in the very, very small minority of Irish guys who wouldn't feel emasculated or like they were being very publicly told to "put a ring on it" he's not going to appreciate her proposing.

Obviously, she knows him, and more importantly their relationship, better than any of us but even if he's okay with it, it'll still be something he'll be ribbed about by his mates for the next decade.

curlzy

Sleepy wrote: »

I apologise if my realism conflicts with your sunshine, lollipops and rainbows view of the world.

Assuming the OP's boyfriend is Irish, and assuming he's not in the very, very small minority of Irish guys who wouldn't feel emasculated or like they were being very publicly told to "put a ring on it" he's not going to appreciate her proposing.

Obviously, she knows him, and more importantly their relationship, better than any of us but even if he's okay with it, it'll still be something he'll be ribbed about by his mates for the next decade.

Wow Mr SARCASMO!! Your power of sexism is epic!!! Maybe you think women walk around viewing the world as full of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows but if you get of your misogynistic horse for a minute you might realise that the OP's guy might be man enough to put up with "ribbing by his mates". Just because you'd run crying to mammy if your friends slagged you does not everyone bows to peer pressure. Don't make nasty assumptions about people based on your own ignorance and arrogance, it's just irritating and takes away from any of the more valid points in your arguments :rolleyes:

Sleepy

How am I sexist in telling you that your view is naieve? You made your gender an issue, not me. I'm not the only one saying that the vast majority of men in this country don't want to be proposed to. In fact, metrovelvet that you quoted in your initial post is a woman so realism isn't solely a male trait.

Maybe the OP's boyfriend is in the minority who wouldn't mind being proposed to. Maybe she's the one with most to lose if the marriage goes wrong and would end up paying him spousal support whilst he raised any kids they might have and allow her to take them to McDonalds at the weekend. Without those details, however, we have to base our assumptions on the societal norms of the culture we live in and they're quite different to that scenario.

Not once have I said that I approve of the status quo by the way. I don't.

In an ideal world where men and women were truly equal in all aspects of life and society, I'd have no problem with being proposed to. We have most of the legislation in place to help create that world but unfortunately it seems it'll be a long time before the feminist lobby groups allow politicians to remove those areas where men are discriminated against and sadly, that means it'll be an even longer time before society catches up with the legal framework.

And I assure you, I'm far less susceptible to peer pressure than the average Irish person. If I wasn't, I'd see the status quo as perfectly acceptable.

Count Duckula

He's not implying that all women are naive, just you. And if anyone is getting nasty here with personal attacks and unpleasant barbs it's probably you.

He's not saying it's right that the man proposes; he's just saying that's the way it is and how most men like it to be. Which is true.

Perhaps the OP's man is one of these men that would like it, but in my experience men like that tend to be very obvious about not minding - and if it were that obvious the OP wouldn't feel the need to ask about it on an internet forum.

It's not misogynistic to suggest that most men wouldn't like it. It would be misogynistic to suggest that it should be that way, but he's not doing that - he's merely pointing out that the simple fact is that a lot of men would hate being proposed to.

And I genuinely struggle to see how someone who can despise tradition so much that they'll get this worked up over who proposes to who can even believe in the institution of marriage at all, since at its very core it's something that regards women as property to be passed from one man to another.

curlzy

Count Duckula wrote: »

He's not implying that all women are naive, just you. And if anyone is getting nasty here with personal attacks and unpleasant barbs it's probably you.

He's not saying it's right that the man proposes; he's just saying that's the way it is and how most men like it to be. Which is true.

Perhaps the OP's man is one of these men that would like it, but in my experience men like that tend to be very obvious about not minding - and if it were that obvious the OP wouldn't feel the need to ask about it on an internet forum.

It's not misogynistic to suggest that most men wouldn't like it. It would be misogynistic to suggest that it should be that way, but he's not doing that - he's merely pointing out that the simple fact is that a lot of men would hate being proposed to.

And I genuinely struggle to see how someone who can despise tradition so much that they'll get this worked up over who proposes to who can even believe in the institution of marriage at all, since at its very core it's something that regards women as property to be passed from one man to another.

I didn't say it was misogynistic to suggest most men wouldn't like it, it was misogynisitic to say that women see the world as full of rainbows and that men get nothing out of marraige while saying that all women want to get married earlier than men but...Yeah whatever, I'm really not arsed debating this with you guys any further, you can go on thinking I'm naive, I'll go on thinking you're sexist. Everyone's a winner.

OP,
If you're still following this thread can you give us any more info??? Is your guy a traditional manly man-man or is he more enlightened and liberated? Like do you think he would like to be proposed to? IMO this all comes down to the guy, if he has an ounce of sense he certainly won't see it as cutting his nuts off. If you think it's something he'll like then have a good think about what he's find funny or cute or sexy (a proposal can be sexy right?). Like myself if I were going to propose to my guy I'd buy him a new computer console and put a diamond engagement ring in the box with a note telling him to come upstairs where I'd be wearing..... you know what the rest of that is private but you get the idea. I wonder could you bounce the idea off him in a less than obvious way, like mention that some girl in work had done it and go "how modern of her! I don't know though, do you think that's a bit odd?" although he might see through that. Either way OP without knowing him it's really really hard to say. I think you can see the opinions here are really split so I'd say have a good oul think on it and maybe sound him out if you can. For all you know he could be totally blown away by it and touched. Either way, weigh it up carefully and take you time.

chillywilly

curlzy wrote: »

I didn't say it was misogynistic to suggest most men wouldn't like it, it was misogynisitic to say that women see the world as full of rainbows

Just to point out, the poster said you see the world that way, not women.

Fluorescence

Since when did PI become Humanities? :pac: Lots of threads getting derailed around here lately.

I'd be curious to hear more from the OP about what kind of person her boyfriend is. That way we could better gauge his possible reaction and come up with some more meaningful proposal ideas?

Sleepy

curlzy wrote: »

Yeah whatever, I'm really not arsed debating this with you guys any further, you can go on thinking I'm naive, I'll go on thinking you're sexist. Everyone's a winner.

You read things into my posts that weren't there and attacked me for them curlzy. If you call putting your fingers in your ears while screaming "la la la, not listening" instead of learning to recognise your mistakes and apologise for them being a winner, you've a lot to learn about life.

Maple

fluorescence wrote: »

Since when did PI become Humanities?

My thoughts exactly.

Folks, please let's not turn this into a gender war/sexism debate. If people don't rein in the hostility bans will be handed out.

Maple

LegacyUser

<snip>

OP, I'm at odds as to what you should do, to be honest. From a male point of view, I would have always viewed the whole debacle as it being a case of the woman is generally ready and it's mostly waiting on the man to be ready, then he'll go and propose when so.

Does that mean I think he's not ready? Not particularly, but it certainly is a pretty large possibility. If I were you, I would suggest feeling out the situation and getting a very strong read on him, because if you propose and he says no, it'll be a bigger issue than if it were the opposite way around. From my gut feeling I would be inclined to say do not to it though, to be absolutely honest with you.

Have you discussed marriage with him at all previously? Or his views on marriage? I know an increasing amount of people who don't want a "traditional" marriage, are you certain he's interested in this? If he is interested in a traditional marriage, he most likely holds the belief that the man should be the one proposing. If so, he may very well not take it well if you propose to him. Extending this, if he's interested in marriage and by extension, believes it should be the man proposing, what would this lead you to believe about him wanting this right now?

All things considered, I think it's a bad idea. If you want to find out, find a movie where the woman proposes and casually watch it together, gauge his reaction to it through that. Again though, I would steer clear.

Best of luck regardless.

metrovelvet

Sleepy wrote: »

How am I sexist in telling you that your view is naieve? You made your gender an issue, not me. I'm not the only one saying that the vast majority of men in this country don't want to be proposed to. In fact, metrovelvet that you quoted in your initial post is a woman so realism isn't solely a male trait.

Maybe the OP's boyfriend is in the minority who wouldn't mind being proposed to. Maybe she's the one with most to lose if the marriage goes wrong and would end up paying him spousal support whilst he raised any kids they might have and allow her to take them to McDonalds at the weekend. Without those details, however, we have to base our assumptions on the societal norms of the culture we live in and they're quite different to that scenario.

Not once have I said that I approve of the status quo by the way. I don't.

In an ideal world where men and women were truly equal in all aspects of life and society, I'd have no problem with being proposed to. We have most of the legislation in place to help create that world but unfortunately it seems it'll be a long time before the feminist lobby groups allow politicians to remove those areas where men are discriminated against and sadly, that means it'll be an even longer time before society catches up with the legal framework.

And I assure you, I'm far less susceptible to peer pressure than the average Irish person. If I wasn't, I'd see the status quo as perfectly acceptable.

Ok. I am of the belief that things really have not changed all that much, and even if the courts are no longer handing out golden tickets, and sometimes they hand it out the other way too lets face it, the PERCEPTION that they do in favour of the woman is still in the stronghold.

So when a man says 'will you marry me?' he is saying "I trust you enough that you wont divorce me and make me homeless' which doesn't happen anymore, but they think it does, so you have to take that on board. He is also taking on responsibility for any future children you may have, he is also giving his name to you, etc. So I'm unprogressive opinion on marriage [which is an instutition caught somewhere in time,] you should let the man do the proposal.

At a push you could express that you would be very pleased if he proposed to you.

Ickle Magoo

Please stop turning PI threads into debates, that is not the purpose of this forum.

Offer the OP advice or don't post at all.

If you have an issue with another post or poster use the report function and if you want to get into a to-and-fro debate with another poster then use the PM function.

Thanks

It's not at all sexist to say that a woman proposing would emasculate the man. It's true and the way we've been raised, but this is a different topic.

OP, you know your boyfriend the best. If you honestly think he will marry you and won't mind being proposed to then, by all means go for it.

elefant

I'm a guy, and though I'd prefer to be the one that proposed, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if I was proposed to!

It just depends on the person I guess. I imagine you should be able to tell from his character whether it would bother him or not.

Sleepy

It's one thing to ask a man about whether he's ready to get married, sitting down and discussing it. I don't think any man would have a problem with that. So it's not a case of
"bide her time and pray to God that at some point he will ask her".

Actually going the whole route of a "proposal" (particularly a public proposal), on the other hand, will be considered emasculating by most men and may lead them to, as sunflower27 puts it, "run for the hills" whether they had a mind to marry their partner or not. Right or Wrong, most guys will consider it embaressing at best and disrespectful at worst.

Count Duckula

True enough, Sunflower, but for a lot of men if they were in love with her and wanted to marry her then they'd likely have asked beforehand themselves!

curlzy

Hey OP,

I asked my boyfriend last night what he would do if I proposed, he said he'd find it surprising but wouldn't be shocked or upset and he would say yes. I told him about this thread and he said it really depends on the guy, some guys like to "toe the party line" as it were and would be afraid of what other guys would think. Men like my boyfriend, who hand on heart never gives a **** what other people think of his private life, would find it novel and if you do it well, very romantic. I honestly think it depends on your guy, my guy loves kittens and cuddles and has been known to cry at sad films, so he's in touch with his feminine side I suppose, but then he's 6'4" and quite built so he can afford to be if you know what I mean. He's very very comfortable in his masculinity. Now don't get me wrong, if a guy doesn't like the idea it doesn't necessarily mean he's a wimp who'll bow to peer pressure, he may just like the idea of giving you a lovely romantic proposal and you could rain on his parade. But yeah as everyone's been saying, it depends on your guy. I think if I was going to do it I'd go all out. Like write "will you marry me?" in colour clothe in a field and then go over it in a hot air balloon or something like that. I'd say I'd have fun with it which ever way I decided to do it.

Best of luck.

Sleepy

sunflower27 wrote: »

And any man in love with his partner and who does want to marry her is not going to run away if she proposes to him. That's ridiculous thinking.

I know guys who would consider it such a disrespectful thing to do that they'd reconsider marrying the girl.

As a gender we're stubborn. Push us towards something and we'll often bolt the other way whether the end result was what we wanted or not.

metrovelvet

Sleepy wrote: »

I know guys who would consider it such a disrespectful thing to do that they'd reconsider marrying the girl.

As a gender we're stubborn. Push us towards something and we'll often bolt the other way whether the end result was what we wanted or not.

Are you suggesting that if the OP proposes it will be read as pushy because shes a woman, but if he proposes it's something else?

You might actually deprive yourself of something you want because you read it as being pushy? Am I reading that correctly? ...just trying to understand...not arguing...

Chucky the tree

I'm a guy and it wouldn't bother me at all. Sure I'd be delighted due to the fact it's considered not the done thing so it would make it all the more special knowing she took the risk. Then again I'm not a delicate little flower that worries about what the lads down the pub or people in work would think.