(MX) Small amounts of Coke, Heroin and Marijauana legal!

120_Minutes · 21-03-2011 07:04PM

biko wrote: »

You know what would be nice? Stats. Sources. Links.
Just because things are a certain way for you doesn't mean they are the same for everyone else.

How do you propose people that do heroin start? I would suppose with cocaine rather than weed but I can't be sure since I have no stats to back that up.

did you miss post #44?

i'm not responding to flutt anymore, anyone who thinks cocaine/heroin/weed are the same is obviously delusional. there is no way to have a rational debate with someone like that. maybe his **** obsession should have been my first clue..

karma_ · 21-03-2011 07:06PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Last I looked, the thread title mentioned Coke Heroin and Weed.

That's the issue I'm dealing with here.

If you want to turn and derail the OPs thread by starting a 'save the stoner' campaign, then start another thread pal...'kay?

You ain't dealing with anything pal, all I see is a jumbling of incoherent mumblings which are 80% rhetoric.

FlutterinBantam · 21-03-2011 07:08PM

If you can't understand the issue, then get out of the debate buddy.

I'm not put on this Earth to educate you;)

karma_ · 21-03-2011 07:10PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'm not put on this Earth to educate you;)

First solid fact you mentioned all thread.

gargleblaster · 21-03-2011 07:10PM

unfortunately i can't find it now, but i saw a study years ago in which it was proposed that some personality types are more prone to either not use drugs at all, use them moderately, or abuse them. can't remember the methodology, but they looked at animals as well (where legality or morality doesn't play any part in the issue) and apparently what they found is that there is a statistical curve that is same as with humans and other species, wherein a small percentage will not use the drug at all, the majority will use some moderate amount, and a small percentage will abuse the drug in question.

i wish i could find it, it was fairly interesting in the context of discussing whether legalizing will lead to more abuse. however, i think the data from countries where drugs have been legal for a while can do a fair job of addressing that point already. none of this is breaking news.

also, regarding decriminalization, that never works. it will still allow a black market to make lots of money and cause lots of trouble with it.

Tahuti · 21-03-2011 07:11PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If you can't understand the issue, then get out of the debate buddy.

I'm not put on this Earth to educate you;)

But you do agree that decriminalising these drugs would free up Gardai, and the court system, to deal with real crimes, saving John Q a tidy sum.

jay93 · 21-03-2011 07:12PM

To be honest the pills in your local pharmacy could kill you quicker than weed can so saying its bad for your health is bull alot of things are bad for your health but sure we still consume them don't we:rolleyes:?

Heroin coke are disguisting imo but if people want to do that then i've no problem with that its not affecting my body in any way so why should anyone care what another person does?
Its their life and if they want to do these things its up to them and not for other people to judge jeeeezz this world drives me nuts with such negative people in it

karma_ · 21-03-2011 07:13PM

gargleblaster wrote: »

unfortunately i can't find it now, but i saw a study years ago in which it was proposed that some personality types are more prone to either not use drugs at all, use them moderately, or abuse them. can't remember the methodology, but they looked at animals as well (where legality or morality doesn't play any part in the issue) and apparently what they found is that there is a statistical curve that is same as with humans and other species, wherein a small percentage will not use the drug at all, the majority will use some moderate amount, and a small percentage will abuse the drug in question.

i wish i could find it, it was fairly interesting in the context of discussing whether legalizing will lead to more abuse. however, i think the data from countries where drugs have been legal for a while can do a fair job of addressing that point already. none of this is breaking news.

also, regarding decriminalization, that never works. it will still allow a black market to make lots of money and cause lots of trouble with it.

That does sound line an interesting read.

I also wouldn't says that decriminalisation never works, how do you explain the likes of Portugal, or in the case of weed, Amsterdam?

FlutterinBantam · 21-03-2011 07:14PM

Tahuti wrote: »

But you do agree that decriminalising these drugs would free up Gardai, and the court system, to deal with real crimes, saving John Q a tidy sum.

What are these real crimes you speak about??

120_Minutes · 21-03-2011 07:14PM

Tahuti wrote: »

But you do agree that decriminalising these drugs would free up Gardai, and the court system, to deal with real crimes, saving John Q a tidy sum.

why would he agree with something that makes sense?

Tahuti · 21-03-2011 07:15PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What are these real crimes you speak about??

Crimes with victims.

RasTa · 21-03-2011 07:16PM

One of the Lowest % of cannabis users in Europe is....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/11/05/idUSL5730185

karma_ · 21-03-2011 07:17PM

RasTa wrote: »

One of the Lowest % of cannabis users in Europe is....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/11/05/idUSL5730185

Come on now, you know you can't be fooling John Q and his spokesman with facts and common sense.

120_Minutes · 21-03-2011 07:24PM

karma_ wrote: »

Come on now, you know you can't be fooling John Q and his spokesman with facts and common sense.

I'm a John Q Taxpayer (whaaaaaat?? a so called filthy hippy junkie holding down a job???) and flutt is not my spokesperson.

gargleblaster · 21-03-2011 07:28PM

karma_ wrote: »

That does sound line an interesting read.

I also wouldn't says that decriminalisation never works, how do you explain the likes of Portugal, or in the case of weed, Amsterdam?

well it is working in some ways, but drug trafficking is still a serious problem. so large criminal organizations are still making tons of money.

i'm not sure what the logic is in enriching organized crime, but my more cynical side suspects it might just have something to do with large sums of their ill-gotten gains being shared with those who make the rules.

Tahuti · 21-03-2011 07:32PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

why would he agree with something that makes sense?

The Flutt is an intelligent man. He merely takes pride in his intransigence, and a certain towing of the party line.

But inside the truth is gnawing away at him.

He knows we are right, but like the virulent homophobe who constantly rails against gayness in order to maintain the false construct of their ego, FlutterinBantam must attack us at every opportunity.

But I am confident that one day, Flutt too will come out of the drugs closet and party to pounding, pounding techno music.

FlutterinBantam · 21-03-2011 07:43PM

jay93 wrote: »

To be honest the pills in your local pharmacy could kill you quicker than weed can so saying its bad for your health is bull alot of things are bad for your health but sure we still consume them don't we:rolleyes:?

Heroin coke are disguisting imo but if people want to do that then i've no problem with that its not affecting my body in any way so why should anyone care what another person does?
Its their life and if they want to do these things its up to them and not for other people to judge jeeeezz this world drives me nuts with such negative people in it

You see, there's where you are wrong ?

Society is set up to care what other people do.

"why should anybody care what another person does?"

Hopefully you can see the stupidity of that statement ?

What other people do has an influence on me and society.

We have to pay for these people who insist on 'doing what they like'

When you grow up you will understand that

FlutterinBantam · 21-03-2011 07:45PM

Tahuti wrote: »

The Flutt is an intelligent man. He merely takes pride in his intransigence, and a certain towing of the party line.

But inside the truth is gnawing away at him.

He knows we are right, but like the virulent homophobe who constantly rails against gayness in order to maintain the false construct of their ego, FlutterinBantam must attack us at every opportunity.

But I am confident that one day, Flutt too will come out of the drugs closet and party to pounding, pounding techno music.

It's 'toeing', 'towing', is pulling, 'toeing' is getting yourself lined up properly.
You know, like the 100m guy at the start of the race....toe to the line

karma_ · 21-03-2011 07:49PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

It's 'toeing', 'towing', is pulling, 'toeing' is getting yourself lined up properly.
You know, like the 100m guy at the start of the race....toe to the line

A+ for pedantry.

Samba · 21-03-2011 07:57PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Do you?

Answer a question with a question :rolleyes:

Here's an interesting fact for you which nullifies and contradicts your statements relating to cannabis and it's cost to Irish tax payers, with regards to coke and heroin, I wouldn't be a proponent of legalisation.

Due to the fact that Cannabis is illegal, we have no control over who sells it and what they decide to do with it.

Since approx. 2006 the majority of cannabis available on the Irish market is actually contaminated, reported contaminants included pretty much everything you do not want to smoke. Glass beads, silicone, fibreglass, etc.

The long term health effects of smoking this contaminated cannabis are completely unknown. The reason behind doing this is to add further weight to their product in order to maximise financial gains.

This is also the case with the vast majority of cannabis resin, contaminants include rubber and reconstituted engine oil to name but a few.

So I put it to you FultterinBantam that as long as Cannabis is an illegal substance, the health effects and cost to the Irish tax payers will far exceed what the potential costs would be if it were legalised.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4907.html

Of course you're assuming that everyone will be using said substance through combustion, whereas that's not always going to be the case.

Can you provide me with some data which shows the health effects of consuming by ingestion or through vapour?

karma_ · 21-03-2011 08:02PM

Samba wrote: »

Answer a question with a question :rolleyes:

Here's an interesting fact for you which nullifies and contradicts your statements relating to cannabis and it's cost to Irish tax payers, with regards to coke and heroin, I wouldn't be a proponent of legalisation.

Due to the fact that Cannabis is illegal, we have no control over who sells it and what they decide to do with it.

Since approx. 2006 the majority of cannabis available on the Irish market is actually contaminated, reported contaminants included pretty much everything you do not want to smoke. Glass beads, silicone, fibreglass, etc.

The long term health effects of smoking this contaminated cannabis are completely unknown. The reason behind doing this is to add further weight to their product in order to maximise financial gains.

This is also the case with the vast majority of cannabis resin, contaminants include rubber and reconstituted engine oil to name but a few.

So I put it to you FultterinBantam that as long as Cannabis is an illegal substance, the health effects and cost to the Irish tax payers will far exceed what the potential costs would be if it were legalised.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4907.html

Of course you're assuming that everyone will be using said substance through combustion, whereas that's not always going to be the case.

Can you provide me with some data which shows the health effects of consuming by ingestion or through vapour?

This is why a lot of people stopped smoking hash, I hated getting little bits of melted plastic burning my fingers. Wouldn't touch it now at all.

I would doubt grass is contaminated with much in fairness although I've heard stories about growers using different things to make it seem heavier.

Fukuyama · 21-03-2011 08:02PM

Flutt - you're opinions are outdated and have been PROVEN wrong.

you say society is about caring for other people - and to a point yes. We should educate and help others. Take away free will however, and criminalize somebody for smoking a plant with fewer health consequences than tobacco (and is also fcuking amazing) , and you open the door for organised crime which destroys the lives of many. Not to mention makes a select few extremely rich and powerful - more so than the Gardaí in some areas.

I'll leave you with some education. Watch it if you wish. I don't really care because the number of Flutts out there is declining rapidly.

The Union : Documentary

FlutterinBantam · 21-03-2011 08:02PM

Hang on here man.

Thread subject: Small amounts of Coke, Heroin, and Marijauana legal.

That's the subject I'm addressing.

If you want to break this off to another....:eek: another legalise weed thread.

Go right ahead.

Start another thread.

karma_ · 21-03-2011 08:05PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Hang on here man.

Thread subject: Small amounts of Coke, Heroin, and Marijauana legal.

That's the subject I'm addressing.

If you want to break this off to another....:eek: another legalise weed thread.

Go right ahead.

Start another thread.

So basically, let me see if I have your argument right in my head...

We should ignore places like Portugal where legalising has worked in favour of our current methods which have proved to not work at all?

Samba · 21-03-2011 08:07PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Hang on here man.

Thread subject: Small amounts of Coke, Heroin, and Marijauana legal.

That's the subject I'm addressing.

If you want to break this off to another....:eek: another legalise weed thread.

Go right ahead.

Start another thread.

It's related to the topic of this thread, you asked me if I had anything new to contribute to this discussion, which I have, now would you care to actually address my points or are you going to pursue further evasive posts in order to avoid answering the points relating to your opinion on the matter?

Fukuyama · 21-03-2011 08:10PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Hang on here man.

Thread subject: Small amounts of Coke, Heroin, and Marijauana legal.

That's the subject I'm addressing.

If you want to break this off to another....:eek: another legalise weed thread.

Go right ahead.

Start another thread.

I think the vast amount of responses to you in this thread have been in relation to your comment where you said weed was "highly addictive". It's less addictive than food...

It would save you money (in the form of taxes) if drugs were legalised. The same amount of people would take them. Less spent on courts, garda etc.. and profits from taxes not to mention employment created and the possibility of a hemp industry.

I agree with making heroine and coke legal. Why? Because I'm never going to inject myself with heroine. Not because it's currently legal: but because I know it'll be a downward spiral from there. 99% of people are the same. The other 1%? Well they're going to do it anyways.

Think about it. PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK.

If you can give me a detailed, well thought out analysis as to how it does work, well good sir, I'll eat my hat.

Tahuti · 21-03-2011 08:10PM

karma_ wrote: »

So basically, let me see if I have your argument right in my head...

We should ignore places like Portugal where legalising has worked in favour of our current methods which have proved to not work at all?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/sep/05/portugal-decriminalising-personal-drug-use

FlutterinBantam · 21-03-2011 08:11PM

Samba wrote: »

It's related to the topic of this thread, you asked me if I had anything new to contribute to this discussion, which I have, now would you care to actually address my points or are you going to pursue further evasive posts in order to avoid answering the points relating to your opinion on the matter?

It's not the core subject of the thread.

Read the Title please.

I would have thought that my opinion on the matter was perfectly clear.

Just to reiterate.

I do not think that small amounts of Coke, heroin and marijuana should be legal.

How clear is that;)

Yakult · 21-03-2011 08:11PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If you can't understand the issue, then get out of the debate buddy

Listen to yourself, before you look even more silly.

FlutterinBantam · 21-03-2011 08:15PM

Dean0088 wrote: »

I think the vast amount of responses to you in this thread have been in relation to your comment where you said weed was "highly addictive". It's less addictive than food...

It would save you money (in the form of taxes) if drugs were legalised. The same amount of people would take them. Less spent on courts, garda etc.. and profits from taxes not to mention employment created and the possibility of a hemp industry.

I agree with making heroine and coke legal. Why? Because I'm never going to inject myself with heroine. Not because it's currently legal: but because I know it'll be a downward spiral from there. 99% of people are the same. The other 1%? Well they're going to do it anyways.

Think about it. PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK.

If you can give me a detailed, well thought out analysis as to how it does work, well good sir, I'll eat my hat.

You agree with making heroin and coke legal,because youwill never use it!!!

What planet are you on pal, you will end up paying for those who will use it.

1% where do you get those figures from.

C'mon

(MX) Small amounts of Coke, Heroin and Marijauana legal!

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