Irish surname please!

Eve_Dublin · 16-03-2011 11:11AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

My surname is English and has no irish equivalent - you'll have to force Irishness down my troath some other way.

Who's talking about forcing anything down anyone's throat (that sounds rude

) ? OP is only asking a question...it's a personal decisison....in fairness, I can't imagine anyone wanting to force this upon us...last time I checked I'm from Ireland not Communist China for frigsake.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-03-2011 11:11AM

Xivilai wrote: »

*Hopes you're not a guy*

I've got all the Irish in my I want, thank you very much!!:D:D

Biggins · 16-03-2011 11:13AM

Rhamiel wrote: »

...It took someone like Muhammad Ali to stand up and reject the name put upon his family in their servitude so why shouldn't we as a people consider the point?

We each of us can do that as individuals if we feel inclined, but to advocate that all of us do it at the instance of a state body or group, is giving the impression that others would want to do it too just because of a grevience we might or might not have had anyway!

seamus · 16-03-2011 11:14AM

Aside from the inherent unpronouncability of many Irish surnames and the general nightmare that we'll have looking at facebook and thinking, "Who the fug is that?" there are also issues that the surname may change from generation to generation.

That is, a "Mac" or "Mc" prefix on a surname means "Son of". The "Ní" prefix means "daughter of", and the "Ó" prefix just means "of", and is supposed to be used for all grandchildren of the person.

So one guy's name today is "Cheallaigh" (or something) for "Kelly". Then his son and daughter are "Mac Cheallaigh" and "Ní Cheallaigh" respectively and their children are "Ó'Cheallaigh". Where does the madness end?

Predator_ · 16-03-2011 11:20AM

seamus wrote: »

Aside from the inherent unpronouncability of many Irish surnames and the general nightmare that we'll have looking at facebook and thinking, "Who the fug is that?" there are also issues that the surname may change from generation to generation.

That is, a "Mac" or "Mc" prefix on a surname means "Son of". The "Ní" prefix means "daughter of", and the "Ó" prefix just means "of", and is supposed to be used for all grandchildren of the person.

So one guy's name today is "Cheallaigh" (or something) for "Kelly". Then his son and daughter are "Mac Cheallaigh" and "Ní Cheallaigh" respectively and their children are "Ó'Cheallaigh". Where does the madness end?

What a lazy west brit attitude.

pickarooney · 16-03-2011 11:23AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

My surname is English and has no irish equivalent - you'll have to force Irishness down my troath some other way.

Job done, I reckon.

Badgermonkey · 16-03-2011 11:23AM

Predator_ wrote: »

What a lazy west brit attitude.

What execrable guff.

Eve_Dublin · 16-03-2011 11:28AM

Predator_ wrote: »

What a lazy west brit attitude.

He has a point. I changed my name on Facebook to the Irish version and it's caused some confusion. My first name is bad enough (Irish) but I've made my life just that little bit more difficult with an unpronouncable Irish surname. People are getting used to it but complications can arise. That's common sense...where are ye going with your accusations of a "lazy West Brit attitude"?

LordSutch · 16-03-2011 11:39AM

Rhamiel wrote: »

Do you think Irish citizens with anglicised surnames should be encouraged to change their names back to their original Gaelic form? By deed poll... forever!

Thats presuming that your surname was anglicised inthe 1st place :cool:

Like many irish people, my ancesters arrived here from England about three hundred years ago.

Predator_ · 16-03-2011 11:41AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Thats presuming that your surname was anglicised inthe 1st place :cool:

Like many irish people, my ancerters arrived here from England about three hundred years ago.

Did they come here to take Irish land? Just out of interest.
Interesting username aswell btw

LordSutch · 16-03-2011 11:44AM

Predator_ wrote: »

Interesting username aswell btw

http://alanadale.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/screamingls.jpg

Wibbs · 16-03-2011 12:01PM

Predator_ wrote: »

Did they come here to take Irish land? Just out of interest.

Contrary to popular belief, not all english, welsh or scots who came here were landowners. Certainly not since the early 18th century. Many came here for economic reasons as urban Ireland was booming at various stages. Plus it was part of "Britain". At the time, moving to Dublin or Cork would not be far off moving from say London to Birmingham. Other groups like Jews came and went in the same period for the same reasons. The ascendency layer of Irish society was actually quite small.

lcrcboy · 16-03-2011 12:10PM

my grandfather changed his back to Irish and signed everything in its Irish form, but Im not to pushed about having mine changed to Irish and my mother has kept hers in its anglo form, plus its hard to pronounce and is a nightmare to spell :P

Adrian009 · 16-03-2011 12:27PM

An additional problem is that you might not be assuming the correct surname. McLoughlin, for example, nowadays covers a number of very different and unreleated surnames - Mac Loughlinn (of Aileach), O Mael Sechlainn (of Midhe), O Maol Sechnaill (also of Midhe), O Maol Lochlainn (no idea), plus as many as half a dozen similar but otherwise unconnected families.

And that's not counting all the O Loughlann's (Corco Mo Druadh), O Leachtna (Glean Neaphinn), O Lachtnain (Maigh Seola) ....

The prefix forms are usually O or Mac, but on occasion it can be:

O Maol/Mael
Mac Maol/Mael
Mac Giolla
O Giolla
O a'/O an
Mac a'/Mac an
'ac
Ni
Bean Ua/Ui
Ui
Ua

Plus, some surnames had additional suffixes, such as

Roe
Mor
Og/Oge
Dubh
Ban
na Glann
Garbh
Fionn
Maol

Some Gaelic surnames, such as Kavanagh (Caomhnach), do not even have an O or Mac. Same is true for the likes of Flesk, Kimmage, Guinness (as distinct from Mac Guinness/Mac Aonghusa/Mac Innes), Desmond, Ormond.

No harm in it, but give it some thought. It can be way more complicated that you think!

seamus · 16-03-2011 12:29PM

Predator_ wrote: »

What a lazy west brit attitude.

Lazy? How about "practical".

What are the benefits of changing my surname to the Irish version? None.

What are the drawbacks?
Well, increased difficulty dealing with both Irish and International contacts as they struggle to understand me when I tell them what my name is.
You will also encounter problems with anyone who writes your name down and uses it to send you stuff, because spelling and the use of special characters like the fada may result in stuff not working or not receiving mail and so forth. It shouldn't be a problem, but it is.
Recognition is also a problem. Before I was Joe Bloggs. But now when someone comes looking for Sheosamh O'Blaithnaigheach they'll get blank stares and "Sorry, don't know him" and so forth.

So basically the suggestion is that we all change our names so that we can spend the rest of our lives getting annoyed and frustrated at being misidentified for absolutely zero benefit apart from possible some vaguely fuzzy but misguided feeling that we're making a difference in promoting the language.

Here's a suggestion: How about people actually start using Irish before we go down the ridiculous road of changing our names into it?

Adrian009 · 16-03-2011 12:40PM

Irish people are British in culture, language and law. This is the lifestyle we have chosen, with a gloss of Irish on the top. The only people still pursueing the purely Gaelic way of life are Irish travellers, who are the single most revilled section of our population.

deise go deo · 16-03-2011 12:45PM

seamus wrote: »

Here's a suggestion: How about people actually start using Irish before we go down the ridiculous road of changing our names into it?

I use Irish, Is it ok that I have changed my name back to its Irish form?

For anyone else that's intrested, there was a group on facebook for changing your name to Irish for Seachtain na Gaeilge.
Changing my Profile Name to Irish for Seachtain na Gaeilge

Just a few points to note for someone interested in doing it.

You do not need a Deed Poll to use the Irish form of Your name. It is considered the same name in Irish Law.

That said, If you intend to change your name, you are much better off to go the whole distance. It can cause problems if your bank account is in one name your Plane ticket in that name, but your passport ina different name.(Security people just dont seem to get the whole two names thing)

The easiest way to go about it is to get your Drivers Licience changed to your Irish name when it comes up for renewal. With that you should be able to change everything else(Bank Account, ESB etc)

Irish Identity

prinz · 16-03-2011 12:47PM

Ha! Had a hard time growing up when a lot of my Irish teachers couldn't spell my surname correctly in Irish (and would pass comment on it, trying to correct my spelling). I don't hold out much hope for others.

sollar · 16-03-2011 12:47PM

I don't even know my name in irish and i 'm not interested either. Also while where at it i resent some of the councils insisting on irish names for housing estates too.

Our native language is doomed until our education system makes it an enjoyable experience for kids to learn it. My memories of learning irish as a kid are miserable. I hate it now.

Adrian009 · 16-03-2011 12:51PM

deise go deo wrote: »

The easiest way to go about it is to get your Drivers Licience changed to your Irish name when it comes up for renewal. With that you should be able to change everything else(Bank Account, ESB etc) Irish Identity

Thanks, that's a great idea.

Personally I'm quite happy with the way my name is, but naturally I give the Irish version when ag caint agus coiseacht as Gaeilge.

I get the impression some people dislike the idea that their 'real' name must be in Irish, in that somehow it makes them 'less' Irish by using the English form. This kind of super-Gael thinking is too extreme for most people, and only serves to further turn them off the language.

Tahuti · 16-03-2011 12:52PM

My family name stretches back to Normandy, when we hopped the boat to get here with Strongbow.

Gaelic-isation would be a mockery to my ancestors who strived so hard to keep the Irish under the thumb.

I vote no to this proposal.

Agricola · 16-03-2011 12:54PM

Nope. This isnt the 1930's and DeValera is dead. Time to move on.

Adrian009 · 16-03-2011 12:54PM

Tahuti wrote: »

My family name stretches back to Normandy, when we hopped the boat to get here with Strongbow.

Gaelic-isation would be a mockery to my ancestors who strived so hard to keep the Irish under the thumb.

I vote no.

I presume that is meant tounge-in-cheek. Otherwise, where did names such as Mac an Fhailaigh, de Burca, O Cisog and Ni Gearailt hail from?

Adrian009 · 16-03-2011 12:55PM

Agricola wrote: »

Nope. This isnt the 1930's and DeValera is dead. Time to move on.

I point out for the record that de Valera is in no way a Gaelic surname either ....

Tahuti · 16-03-2011 12:58PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

I presume that is meant tounge-in-cheek. Otherwise, where did names such as Mac an Fhailaigh, de Burca, O Cisog and Ni Gearailt hail from?

Not only that, but I fully intend to recapture our ancestral lands, and resettle those of the bloodline now scattered throughout the world, using the Israeli template.

Yeah, I'm only messing.

Our name is unchanged since Strongbow's time though, so I still have a French surname.

Interestingly there is an anglicised, though no gaelicised version, of it.

Adrian009 · 16-03-2011 01:01PM

Tahuti wrote: »

Not only that, but I fully intend to recapture our ancestral lands, and resettle those of the bloodline, now scattered throughout the world, using the Israeli template.

Yeah, I'm only messing.

Our name is unchanged since Strongbow's time though, so I still have a French surname.

Interestingly there is an anglicised, though no gaelicised version, of it.

Cool! I'd be suprised however if there was'nt a Gaelic form of it somewhere. One Norman-French name that comes to mind is Montegomery, which I've seen as Mac an Iomire. How correct that is I don't know.

phasers · 16-03-2011 01:03PM

There's no Irish translation for my surname ;-;

the keen edge · 16-03-2011 01:04PM

Tahuti wrote: »

My family name stretches back to Normandy, when we hopped the boat to get here with Strongbow.

Gaelic-isation would be a mockery to my ancestors who strived so hard to keep the Irish under the thumb.

I vote no to this proposal.

Firstly, assimilation with the native cultural was a major feature of Norman conquest, so your point is moot.

Secondly, Strongbow and his Knights (from which my surname comes from), didn't come from Normandy.

They were Cambro-Norman, they came from Pembroke.
And many of those Knight themselves took Gaelic names: More Irish than the Irish themselves!.

sensibleken · 16-03-2011 01:05PM

My surname, duffy, is waay cooler in Irish. Dubhfaigh 'The black one'

f*ck yeah!

the keen edge · 16-03-2011 01:09PM

Tahuti wrote: »

Not only that, but I fully intend to recapture our ancestral lands, and resettle those of the bloodline now scattered throughout the world, using the Israeli template.

Yeah, I'm only messing.

Our name is unchanged since Strongbow's time though, so I still have a French surname.

Interestingly there is an anglicised, though no gaelicised version, of it.

Sorry for my earlier generalised point regarding the Normans.

Very interesting that your surname is unchanged since Strongbow time.

Irish surname please!

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