Irish surname please!

Rhamiel

Do you think Irish citizens with anglicised surnames should be encouraged to change their names back to their original Gaelic form? By deed poll... forever!












p.s. then we all go invade Northern Ireland :pac:

Biggins

What? More decisions shoved and forced down our throats? No thanks.

"Encouraged?" Yea, lets waste more money to bring this about. Daft idea.

CreepingDeath

Rhamiel wrote: »

Do you think Irish citizens with anglicised surnames should be encouraged to change their names back to their original Gaelic form?

I think that's a requirement in Sinn Fein judging by the election posters.

who the fug

Sweet suffering jesus, it be bad enough when people come into the office asking for the Nigerian gentleman (was accused of being Algerian another time) what are they going to do when it be AS Gailge

pickarooney

Mine is an anglicised surname. Should I be encouraged (with money) to change it back to its original mediaeval Breton?

Rhamiel

pickarooney wrote: »

Mine is an anglicised surname. Should I be encouraged (with money) to change it back to its original mediaeval Breton?

Sure... I have an anglicised surname myself and the thought just occurred to me when when I discovered gaelic origins of it myself after years of fretting over it being entirely anglo-saxon :P

I dont necessarily mean tax payers money should be put towards a government campaign to get everyone to do it.. just maybe that it could become socially acceptable for someone to go and change it back to its Gaelic origins by deed poll if they so choose

Dionysus

Rhamiel wrote: »

Do you think Irish citizens with anglicised surnames should be encouraged to change their names back to their original Gaelic form? By deed poll... forever!

Great; yet another thread by the vociferous anti-Irish lobby here to stir up hatred against Irish. Replace "Irish" with "immigrant" and these threads would all be closed without delay.

Just no. This whole Irish thing is ridiculous. Back in the boom we could afford to have projects which encouraged us to explore our heritage, learn more Irish after school years, but at the moment we just can't afford to keep the Gael Brigade happy. It costs money to do everything twice. Once for the majority of the people in Ireland, the English speakers, and then again for all the people who accuse us of throwing away our heritage and trying to be English. The government is so concerned with keeping these people happy that it throws funding into Irish projects instead of something more worthwhile.

donutface

Arent you by Irish law allowed to use both anyway? Or is that only your first name

Notorious97

No point wasting money on something like this, people can find out their surnames in Irish if they wish to quite easily and for free, i used my surname in both, through school and college it was Irish, work use my name in English, my first name is Irish, if i saw money being pumped into a scheme like this then its a huge waste of money, if people want to use it they can find it out easily as i said.

Rhamiel

Biggins wrote: »

What? More decisions shoved and forced down our throats? No thanks.

"Encouraged?" Yea, lets waste more money to bring this about. Daft idea.

Well actually I in fact I feel that my ancestors had the anglicisation of their family name shoved down their throats far more firmly than the mere mooting of this 'daft idea' so gimme a break please

As I mentioned in my post above I dont necessarily mean a government funded campaign, rather just something I'm putting out there for us to ponder as a culture and society.

It took someone like Muhammad Ali to stand up and reject the name put upon his family in their servitude so why shouldn't we as a people consider the point?

arybvtcw0eolkf

I do... Say's me with a Japanese username, a Germanic first name and an anglicised southern European surname

Dionysus

Dionysus wrote: »

Great; yet another thread by the vociferous anti-Irish lobby here to stir up hatred against Irish. Replace "Irish" with "immigrant" and these threads would all be closed without delay.

I don't see the comparison. Not wanting Irish to be forced on people isn't the same as being discriminatory towards a section of the population. If we were saying English had to be forced on Irish speakers and we though it was ridiculous, would you agree then?

Mint Sauce

My names Scotish though.

who the fug

irish-stew wrote: »

My names Scotish though.

But the Scots were the original Irish

Wibbs

Dionysus wrote: »

Great; yet another thread by the vociferous anti-Irish lobby here to stir up hatred against Irish. Replace "Irish" with "immigrant" and these threads would all be closed without delay.

Brilliant bit of hyperbole and over reaction there D. *salutes*

some_dose

My surname is the same in English as it is in Irish so it makes no difference to me

Dionysus

true-or-false wrote: »

I don't see the comparison. Not wanting Irish to be forced on people isn't the same as being discriminatory towards a section of the population. If we were saying English had to be forced on Irish speakers and we though it was ridiculous, would you agree then?

And who said anything about "force"? The OP said, clearly, "encouraged". Once more anti-Irish language posters are inventing things in order to demonise Irish speakers. And these threads are incessant.

witchgirl26

donutface wrote: »

Arent you by Irish law allowed to use both anyway? Or is that only your first name

You are indeed - my brother goes by his Irish name most of the time & has never officially changed it. My name is in Irish on my JC and LC. Also through college I went by my surname in Irish. Although have heard that there can be some problems if you're travelling & your passport is in your Irish name but you've booked the ticket fully in your English name. Confuses some of the staff in foreign airports which is fair enough as to them it looks like a different person.

tadcan

My name is of norman origin, so what do I do. In primary school we had to say our name in Irish every morning, and I was the only person in the class whose first name and surname had no equivalent in Irish.

St.Spodo

I'm not sure if ''Komodo'' is either Irish or English.

Dionysus

Wibbs wrote: »

Brilliant bit of hyperbole and over reaction there D. *salutes*

It's far from hyperbole. Witness your own comments in the bilingual signs thread which, amazingly, managed to blame Irish speakers for a state organisation's incompetence in fulfilling its statutory responsibility.

arybvtcw0eolkf

irish-stew wrote: »

My names Scotish though.

Ulick MacGee is that you?

davetherave

What about those of us who don't have an Irish version of a medieval english surname??
Do we get to make one up, because that's what I did in the Irish Oral in the LC all those years ago.
It is a kickass surname though. We had a guy who was executed for trying to assassinate the king of England. And another guy who was a (false) pretender to the throne but got found out and retreated to Ireland which is how the name came over here.

Eve_Dublin

Overeaction from people here. The OP is not saying this should be funded by taxpayers, she's putting it out there for discussion...would you be interested in changing your anglicised surname (if it has been anglicised) back to the original Gaelic version? This is not ACTUALLY happening so people can relax.

OP, I use my Irish surname in every circumstance except work because I had to show my passport when I was put on the system. Once my passport expires, I'm officially changing to the original Irish version. Why? Because I like the sound of it....it's much nicer than my anglocised surname and my first name is Irish and it goes well together.

Plus I'm proud of where I'm from and I want to distinguish myself in this small way. Nothing more.

Wibbs

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Overeaction from people here.

I agree. Its a fashion thing as much as anything else. Just like adding O and Mc to surnames in the late 19th century. Before that they had been rare enough. I don't see any harm in it at all.

angelfire9

Our family surname is Spanish, can be traced back to the Armada so... no thanks!

Micilin Muc

who the fug wrote: »

But the Scots were the original Irish

Not all Scots were Gaelic. My surname is a Scottish lowland name, but just because I'm a fluent Irish speaker doesn't mean I should make up an Irish version.

I'm proud of my name in English as it reflects my father's family's history. I'm not going to pretend it's something it's not.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

My surname is English and has no irish equivalent - you'll have to force Irishness down my troath some other way.

Predator_

Rhamiel wrote: »

Do you think Irish citizens with anglicised surnames should be encouraged to change their names back to their original Gaelic form? By deed poll... forever!










p.s. then we all go invade Northern Ireland :pac:

They forced us to change our names to English when they oppressed us so I dont see anything wrong doing the other way around. And yes invade the North, only if we have an army capable of doing it though.

Xivilai

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

- you'll have to force Irishness down my troath some other way.

*Hopes you're not a guy*

Eve_Dublin

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

My surname is English and has no irish equivalent - you'll have to force Irishness down my troath some other way.

Who's talking about forcing anything down anyone's throat (that sounds rude ) ? OP is only asking a question...it's a personal decisison....in fairness, I can't imagine anyone wanting to force this upon us...last time I checked I'm from Ireland not Communist China for frigsake.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Xivilai wrote: »

*Hopes you're not a guy*

I've got all the Irish in my I want, thank you very much!!:D:D

Biggins

Rhamiel wrote: »

...It took someone like Muhammad Ali to stand up and reject the name put upon his family in their servitude so why shouldn't we as a people consider the point?

We each of us can do that as individuals if we feel inclined, but to advocate that all of us do it at the instance of a state body or group, is giving the impression that others would want to do it too just because of a grevience we might or might not have had anyway!

seamus

Aside from the inherent unpronouncability of many Irish surnames and the general nightmare that we'll have looking at facebook and thinking, "Who the fug is that?" there are also issues that the surname may change from generation to generation.

That is, a "Mac" or "Mc" prefix on a surname means "Son of". The "Ní" prefix means "daughter of", and the "Ó" prefix just means "of", and is supposed to be used for all grandchildren of the person.

So one guy's name today is "Cheallaigh" (or something) for "Kelly". Then his son and daughter are "Mac Cheallaigh" and "Ní Cheallaigh" respectively and their children are "Ó'Cheallaigh". Where does the madness end?

Predator_

seamus wrote: »

Aside from the inherent unpronouncability of many Irish surnames and the general nightmare that we'll have looking at facebook and thinking, "Who the fug is that?" there are also issues that the surname may change from generation to generation.

That is, a "Mac" or "Mc" prefix on a surname means "Son of". The "Ní" prefix means "daughter of", and the "Ó" prefix just means "of", and is supposed to be used for all grandchildren of the person.

So one guy's name today is "Cheallaigh" (or something) for "Kelly". Then his son and daughter are "Mac Cheallaigh" and "Ní Cheallaigh" respectively and their children are "Ó'Cheallaigh". Where does the madness end?

What a lazy west brit attitude.

pickarooney

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

My surname is English and has no irish equivalent - you'll have to force Irishness down my troath some other way.

Job done, I reckon.

Badgermonkey

Predator_ wrote: »

What a lazy west brit attitude.

What execrable guff.

Eve_Dublin

Predator_ wrote: »

What a lazy west brit attitude.

He has a point. I changed my name on Facebook to the Irish version and it's caused some confusion. My first name is bad enough (Irish) but I've made my life just that little bit more difficult with an unpronouncable Irish surname. People are getting used to it but complications can arise. That's common sense...where are ye going with your accusations of a "lazy West Brit attitude"?

LordSutch

Rhamiel wrote: »

Do you think Irish citizens with anglicised surnames should be encouraged to change their names back to their original Gaelic form? By deed poll... forever!

Thats presuming that your surname was anglicised inthe 1st place :cool:

Like many irish people, my ancesters arrived here from England about three hundred years ago.

Predator_

LordSutch wrote: »

Thats presuming that your surname was anglicised inthe 1st place :cool:

Like many irish people, my ancerters arrived here from England about three hundred years ago.

Did they come here to take Irish land? Just out of interest.
Interesting username aswell btw

LordSutch

Predator_ wrote: »

Interesting username aswell btw

http://alanadale.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/screamingls.jpg

Wibbs

Predator_ wrote: »

Did they come here to take Irish land? Just out of interest.

Contrary to popular belief, not all english, welsh or scots who came here were landowners. Certainly not since the early 18th century. Many came here for economic reasons as urban Ireland was booming at various stages. Plus it was part of "Britain". At the time, moving to Dublin or Cork would not be far off moving from say London to Birmingham. Other groups like Jews came and went in the same period for the same reasons. The ascendency layer of Irish society was actually quite small.

lcrcboy

my grandfather changed his back to Irish and signed everything in its Irish form, but Im not to pushed about having mine changed to Irish and my mother has kept hers in its anglo form, plus its hard to pronounce and is a nightmare to spell :P

Adrian009

An additional problem is that you might not be assuming the correct surname. McLoughlin, for example, nowadays covers a number of very different and unreleated surnames - Mac Loughlinn (of Aileach), O Mael Sechlainn (of Midhe), O Maol Sechnaill (also of Midhe), O Maol Lochlainn (no idea), plus as many as half a dozen similar but otherwise unconnected families.

And that's not counting all the O Loughlann's (Corco Mo Druadh), O Leachtna (Glean Neaphinn), O Lachtnain (Maigh Seola) ....

The prefix forms are usually O or Mac, but on occasion it can be:

O Maol/Mael
Mac Maol/Mael
Mac Giolla
O Giolla
O a'/O an
Mac a'/Mac an
'ac
Ni
Bean Ua/Ui
Ui
Ua

Plus, some surnames had additional suffixes, such as

Roe
Mor
Og/Oge
Dubh
Ban
na Glann
Garbh
Fionn
Maol

Some Gaelic surnames, such as Kavanagh (Caomhnach), do not even have an O or Mac. Same is true for the likes of Flesk, Kimmage, Guinness (as distinct from Mac Guinness/Mac Aonghusa/Mac Innes), Desmond, Ormond.

No harm in it, but give it some thought. It can be way more complicated that you think!

seamus

Predator_ wrote: »

What a lazy west brit attitude.

Lazy? How about "practical".

What are the benefits of changing my surname to the Irish version? None.

What are the drawbacks?
Well, increased difficulty dealing with both Irish and International contacts as they struggle to understand me when I tell them what my name is.
You will also encounter problems with anyone who writes your name down and uses it to send you stuff, because spelling and the use of special characters like the fada may result in stuff not working or not receiving mail and so forth. It shouldn't be a problem, but it is.
Recognition is also a problem. Before I was Joe Bloggs. But now when someone comes looking for Sheosamh O'Blaithnaigheach they'll get blank stares and "Sorry, don't know him" and so forth.

So basically the suggestion is that we all change our names so that we can spend the rest of our lives getting annoyed and frustrated at being misidentified for absolutely zero benefit apart from possible some vaguely fuzzy but misguided feeling that we're making a difference in promoting the language.

Here's a suggestion: How about people actually start using Irish before we go down the ridiculous road of changing our names into it?

Adrian009

Irish people are British in culture, language and law. This is the lifestyle we have chosen, with a gloss of Irish on the top. The only people still pursueing the purely Gaelic way of life are Irish travellers, who are the single most revilled section of our population.

deise go deo

seamus wrote: »

Here's a suggestion: How about people actually start using Irish before we go down the ridiculous road of changing our names into it?

I use Irish, Is it ok that I have changed my name back to its Irish form?



For anyone else that's intrested, there was a group on facebook for changing your name to Irish for Seachtain na Gaeilge.
Changing my Profile Name to Irish for Seachtain na Gaeilge

Just a few points to note for someone interested in doing it.


You do not need a Deed Poll to use the Irish form of Your name. It is considered the same name in Irish Law.

That said, If you intend to change your name, you are much better off to go the whole distance. It can cause problems if your bank account is in one name your Plane ticket in that name, but your passport ina different name.(Security people just dont seem to get the whole two names thing)

The easiest way to go about it is to get your Drivers Licience changed to your Irish name when it comes up for renewal. With that you should be able to change everything else(Bank Account, ESB etc)


Irish Identity

prinz

Ha! Had a hard time growing up when a lot of my Irish teachers couldn't spell my surname correctly in Irish (and would pass comment on it, trying to correct my spelling). I don't hold out much hope for others.

sollar

I don't even know my name in irish and i 'm not interested either. Also while where at it i resent some of the councils insisting on irish names for housing estates too.

Our native language is doomed until our education system makes it an enjoyable experience for kids to learn it. My memories of learning irish as a kid are miserable. I hate it now.

Adrian009

deise go deo wrote: »

The easiest way to go about it is to get your Drivers Licience changed to your Irish name when it comes up for renewal. With that you should be able to change everything else(Bank Account, ESB etc) Irish Identity

Thanks, that's a great idea.

Personally I'm quite happy with the way my name is, but naturally I give the Irish version when ag caint agus coiseacht as Gaeilge.

I get the impression some people dislike the idea that their 'real' name must be in Irish, in that somehow it makes them 'less' Irish by using the English form. This kind of super-Gael thinking is too extreme for most people, and only serves to further turn them off the language.