Fairy tales -vs- The Bible

MagicSean · 10-03-2011 10:35AM

Sisko wrote: »

Of course we do, it needs to be bashed. Its ridiculous. You've had your thousands of years , its our turn now. :pac:

I don't actually believe in organised religion. I just despise the hypocrisy of the majority of aethiests when it comes to their oppression of religious people. Someone has a right to believe in something as well as the right not to.

Canis Lupus · 10-03-2011 10:50AM

k_mac wrote: »

I don't actually believe in organised religion. I just despise the hypocrisy of the majority of aethiests when it comes to their oppression of religious people. Someone has a right to believe in something as well as the right not to.

People can believe what they like but it's when it interferes in my life I have an issue with it. If you don't think religion affects atheists, particularly in Ireland you're a bit naive.

MagicSean · 10-03-2011 10:56AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

People can believe what they like but it's when it interferes in my life I have an issue with it. If you don't think religion affects atheists, particularly in Ireland you're a bit naive.

Religion doesn't affect athiests. There are some traditions left over from religion that probably do but they generally benefit athiests. I'm sure athiests encounter prejudice from some people but it's not much different to the contempt with which they look at believers.

the_syco · 10-03-2011 11:03AM

Spunge wrote: »

If God isn't real then who wrote the Bible ?

Christians - 1
Atheists - 0

Some stoner wrote the bible after gods rep got nailed to a cross.

KeithAFC wrote: »

I'll go with Fairy tales. I like reading Sinn Feins website.

By this comment, are you saying that Gerreh Odams is a gawd?

Canis Lupus wrote: »

If you don't think religion affects atheists, particularly in Ireland you're a bit naive.

Quite you, and go to church, or you won't get married, and your kids won't get to goto school...

Canis Lupus · 10-03-2011 11:10AM

k_mac wrote: »

Religion doesn't affect athiests. There are some traditions left over from religion that probably do but they generally benefit athiests. I'm sure athiests encounter prejudice from some people but it's not much different to the contempt with which they look at believers.

Erm... Stuff like the majority of schools in Ireland are run by the church but paid for by the state. Tax paying atheists might get grumpy at this. Never mind being an atheist teacher and trying to get a job if you openly declare your athiesm. You know you need to get a bishops permission to get a job in one of these state funded but church run schools?

The political sway the church has and it's effects on gay rights and abortion etc etc

Ireland has a blasphemy law. trolololo

and so on and so forth.

Wibbs · 10-03-2011 11:17AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How about you include the Qur'an and the other few religious books of the world religions?

At least then you wouldn't look as if you've got an axe to grind.

OK. The Quran and Islam is basically just one of the judeochristian "heresies" that made it. Just like christianity before it was a judeo heresy that made it. There were loads of them about at the time and in that neck of the woods. It got lucky on the back of aggressive empire building. Again not unlike christianity. The source material, judaism is equally from all sorts of sources and evolved. Originally there was mr and mrs God. Some of the evolutionary stuff remains if you look for it. The devil is a classic example. In the early torah/bible he's more a judge than the yang to gods ying. He evolves into the tempter by Jesus' time, by the time the church gets its hands on the concept we get the full hollywood horror treatment. Islam also fires him up and invents djinns/genies to boot. Classic stuff.

Dont get me started on buddha.

partyatmygaff · 10-03-2011 11:23AM

Wibbs wrote: »

OK. The Quran and Islam is basically just one of the judeochristian "heresies" that made it. Just like christianity before it was a judeo heresy that made it. There were loads of them about at the time and in that neck of the woods. It got lucky on the back of aggressive empire building. Again not unlike christianity. The source material, judaism is equally from all sorts of sources and evolved. Originally there was mr and mrs God. Some of the evolutionary stuff remains if you look for it. The devil is a classic example. In the early torah/bible he's more a judge than the yang to gods ying. He evolves into the tempter by Jesus' time, by the time the church gets its hands on the concept we get the full hollywood horror treatment. Islam also fires him up and invents djinns/genies to boot. Classic stuff.

Dont get me started on buddha.

Whatever it is or is not is irrelevant.

If the OP does not have a specific vendetta against Christianity then why has he only included the Bible in his poll? At present it just looks as if he's trying to appeal to popular opinion in AH.

MagicSean · 10-03-2011 11:28AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Erm... Stuff like the majority of schools in Ireland are run by the church but paid for by the state. Tax paying atheists might get grumpy at this. Never mind being an atheist teacher and trying to get a job if you openly declare your athiesm. You know you need to get a bishops permission to get a job in one of these state funded but church run schools?

The political sway the church has and it's effects on gay rights and abortion etc etc

Ireland has a blasphemy law. trolololo

and so on and so forth.

The reason schools and hospitals are run by religious orders is because they founded them when nobody else would. Not out of some urge to control the minds of the young but because they were needed. This is something that we should be grateful for. There are similar schools for other religions and for non-
religious that all get funded by the state. And there is no problem with children of different faiths going to any of the catholic run schools.

If a job applicant were to be discriminated against on the grounds of their religion it would be a breach of the equality act and would not be accepted.

Gay rights are not affected by religion either. Gay people have the same rights as anyone else. The only exception is adoption. This is because Ireland has not yet decided wether a gay couple can successfully raise a child. You can claim that religion influences this but it is more likely a result of ignorance and misunderstanding.

Ireland has a blasphemy law to protect the rights of a person to follow their beliefs without persecution. It applies to all religions. It doesn't affect the right of someone not to believe or to assert this. There are arguments for and against it. It doesn't bother me as I don't feel the need to attack religious beliefs.

bonerm · 10-03-2011 11:31AM

Speaking of religions, Just remember April 10th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

New Zealand are the current front-runners with 1.5% Jedi. Could Ireland even come close? Doubt it considering deep down were a unprincipled bunch of bastards with no genuine sense of humour, but I'll certainly be subtracting 1 from the Catholic Church total.

cancsajn · 10-03-2011 11:32AM

SomeFool wrote: »

Whichever one has pictures

yess

Wibbs · 10-03-2011 11:32AM

Oh yea,defo. He or she's Irish so the vendetta will be agin the catholic/christian faith. It's pretty common around here. We've little contact with buddhists and think them those cute fellas in the red robes/dalai lama(do NOT get me started on that joker). Taking the pee outa the jewish religion isn't exactly smiled upon and taking same out of the muslim faith is all too often not so good for ones health.

partyatmygaff · 10-03-2011 11:32AM

bonerm wrote: »

I'll certainly be subtracting 1 from the Catholic Church total.

Did you put yourself down as Catholic in the last Census then?

sbsquarepants · 10-03-2011 11:41AM

k_mac wrote: »

I don't actually believe in organised religion. I just despise the hypocrisy of the majority of aethiests when it comes to their oppression of religious people. Someone has a right to believe in something as well as the right not to.

For centuries people didn't have the right not to believe, or to believe something different, countless people have been put to death for it in fact. It's still a crime in some parts of the world to be an atheist, or to change your religion.
I think we should have a couple of centuries of burning the religious then we'll say it's all square:D

sensibleken · 10-03-2011 11:42AM

People who think the Bible is cooler that fairy tales because of all the se and violence obviously havent read Propper Irish fairy tales. Highly recomend Lebor Gabhala Erenn for uber ass kicking

prinz · 10-03-2011 11:43AM

There was a post on another similar thread two days ago which actually, and in seriousness, claimed that AH was full of pro-religion threads started by theists in which atheists were made to feel unwelcome. It was thanked by a number of posters some of whome I thought would know better. I'd love to link it but I think that's against the charter just to highlight the completely ridiculous notions that float about this forum.

Either way I for one am glad to see another theist-started thread for all us theists to celebrate how little we think of the opinions of atheists. Oh wait....

Wibbs · 10-03-2011 11:45AM

k_mac wrote: »

The reason schools and hospitals are run by religious orders is because they founded them when nobody else would. Not out of some urge to control the minds of the young but because they were needed.

Yes and no. "Give me the boy and I'll give you the man" was an element of it.

And there is no problem with children of different faiths going to any of the catholic run schools.

There isn't now, but I remember the tail end of a time when there was. There was also a time when it was considered well dodgy for a catholic to even attend somewhere like Trinity college and that didn't come from the prods either.

Gay rights are not affected by religion either. Gay people have the same rights as anyone else. The only exception is adoption. This is because Ireland has not yet decided wether a gay couple can successfully raise a child. You can claim that religion influences this but it is more likely a result of ignorance and misunderstanding.

Again yes and no. The catholic faith of this country as you see it today was a very different beast a generation ago. No? Try buying a condom in 1981. Try getting a divorce. Try getting info on abortion. Try watching the life of brian in the cinema. look at the gynecological damage meted out to women by the same religious hospitals. We were incredibly backward. All because of the influence of those cassocked eejits.

grizzly · 10-03-2011 11:45AM

k_mac wrote: »

Gay rights are not affected by religion either.

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

philologos · 10-03-2011 11:48AM

grizzly wrote: »

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

It seems to be clear that you don't understand what Christianity is. Namely a living response to what Jesus did for us 2000 years ago.

Yes, our sin actually is deserving of death, hence why it is written that the wages of sin is death (Romans ch 6)

The good news is that Jesus already paid the penalty of death for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected to new life just as we are in Him.

As such, nobody has to pay this penalty and this is the reason why the vast majority of Christians I've come across oppose the death penalty. If Jesus died for my sin, how can I expect someone else to die for theirs?

Key distinction between Christianity and Judaism / Islam.

sensibleken · 10-03-2011 12:04PM

Jakkass wrote: »

It seems to be clear that you don't understand what Christianity is. Namely a living response to what Jesus did for us 2000 years ago.

Yes, our sin actually is deserving of death, hence why it is written that the wages of sin is death (Romans ch 6)

The good news is that Jesus already paid the penalty of death for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected to new life just as we are in Him.

As such, nobody has to pay this penalty and this is the reason why the vast majority of Christians I've come across oppose the death penalty. If Jesus died for my sin, how can I expect someone else to die for theirs?

Key distinction between Christianity and Judaism / Islam.

All sounds perfectly reasonable and verifiable to me.

Is there any scale on this paying for the sins stuff. Does that mean I can rob a bank because JC got died for three days

Pompey Magnus · 10-03-2011 12:07PM

Jakkass wrote: »

It seems to be clear that you don't understand what Christianity is. Namely a living response to what Jesus did for us 2000 years ago.

Perhaps you should rephrase that and claim that it is other Christians who don't have the same understanding of Christianity as you, because whether you like it or not the previous poster was correct in pointing it out as it is passages such as that in Leviticus which have been used time and again by those Christians who wish to discriminate against and condemn homosexuals.

MagicSean · 10-03-2011 12:09PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes and no. "Give me the boy and I'll give you the man" was an element of it.

Was. No longer the case though.

Wibbs wrote: »

There isn't now, but I remember the tail end of a time when there was. There was also a time when it was considered well dodgy for a catholic to even attend somewhere like Trinity college and that didn't come from the prods either.

But again this is something which has been eliminated.

Wibbs wrote: »

Again yes and no. The catholic faith of this country as you see it today was a very different beast a generation ago. No? Try buying a condom in 1981. Try getting a divorce. Try getting info on abortion. Try watching the life of brian in the cinema. look at the gynecological damage meted out to women by the same religious hospitals. We were incredibly backward. All because of the influence of those cassocked eejits.

I dont dispute that. My point is that the religions have little influence on todays society.

grizzly wrote: »

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

I think you've missed the point. That doesn't have an affect on life in Ireland.

Ghost Buster · 10-03-2011 12:10PM

k_mac wrote: »

Yay, another religion bashing thread. We certainly need one of those.

Well. Religion is still about and screwing everything up so... hey... what ever!

I thought it was bashing fairy tales though?

Ghost Buster · 10-03-2011 12:13PM

Spunge wrote: »

If God isn't real then who wrote the Bible ?

Christians - 1
Atheists - 0

If God wrote it he should have had a press officer and an editor. Its very very vague.
And as for episode one. Good grief he's hardly recogniseable as the same guy in episode two.

Ghost Buster · 10-03-2011 12:16PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How about you include the Qur'an and the other few religious books of the world religions?

At least then you wouldn't look as if you've got an axe to grind.

Well with Ireland being a catholic country* with an education system, legistlation and constitution favouring Catholics i think he is grinding the axe that most effects him.

* Its not though.

strobe · 10-03-2011 12:18PM

sensibleken wrote: »

All sounds perfectly reasonable and verifiable to me.

Is there any scale on this paying for the sins stuff. Does that mean I can rob a bank because JC got died for three days

Yes, it does.

Heaven is full of Christian paedophiles and murderers and rapists and thieves and politicians whilst hell is full of pretty sound Muslims and atheists and Hindus and pagans that lived their entire lives dedicated to helping people, never did anyone anywhere a bad turn and were basically all round nice guys who tried to make the lives of everyone they came in contact with better. So sayeth the Lord......

partyatmygaff · 10-03-2011 12:21PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Well with Ireland being a catholic country* with an education system, legistlation and constitution favouring Catholics i think he is grinding the axe that most effects him.

* Its not though.

Grinding the axe that most affects him? That doesn't really make sense but I digress.

The thread title is "Fairy tales vs the Bible" and he's asking people "which is more believable?" In essence it is a rhetorical question. He is saying "Religion is like fairy tales" and he's trying to add a bit of humour to it by turning it in to a poll. If it's Religion that he is against why is he only including the Bible and not other holy books? Personally i'd be inclined to think he's afraid of being called politically incorrect. People have a double standard over here in Ireland when it comes to criticising Religion. Christianity and to an extent Judaism they have no qualms with but when it comes to other Religions they are reluctant to extend their views to them.

grizzly · 10-03-2011 12:21PM

Jakkass wrote: »

It seems to be clear that you don't understand what Christianity is. Namely a living response to what Jesus did for us 2000 years ago.

Yes, our sin actually is deserving of death, hence why it is written that the wages of sin is death (Romans ch 6)

The good news is that Jesus already paid the penalty of death for our sins on the cross, and was resurrected to new life just as we are in Him.

As such, nobody has to pay this penalty and this is the reason why the vast majority of Christians I've come across oppose the death penalty. If Jesus died for my sin, how can I expect someone else to die for theirs?

Key distinction between Christianity and Judaism / Islam.

I didn't mention Christianity.

Angron · 10-03-2011 12:21PM

Fairy tales. I mean at least I can sit down and read one of those quickly, the bible is a pretty big book (comparative to some fairy tales anyway). And kinda judgmental.

Ghost Buster · 10-03-2011 12:22PM

k_mac wrote: »

The reason schools and hospitals are run by religious orders is because they founded them when nobody else would. Not out of some urge to control the minds of the young but because they were needed. This is something that we should be grateful for. There are similar schools for other religions and for non-
religious that all get funded by the state. And there is no problem with children of different faiths going to any of the catholic run schools.

If a job applicant were to be discriminated against on the grounds of their religion it would be a breach of the equality act and would not be accepted.

Gay rights are not affected by religion either. Gay people have the same rights as anyone else. The only exception is adoption. This is because Ireland has not yet decided wether a gay couple can successfully raise a child. You can claim that religion influences this but it is more likely a result of ignorance and misunderstanding.

Ireland has a blasphemy law to protect the rights of a person to follow their beliefs without persecution. It applies to all religions. It doesn't affect the right of someone not to believe or to assert this. There are arguments for and against it. It doesn't bother me as I don't feel the need to attack religious beliefs.

But it wasnt always so. Did it change because people just sat back and did nothing or because they realised it was unfair and nonsense.
This Boads thing may not achieve much but its all part of the process.
And hey. Its ok to call conjecture conjecture and thats all religion is.. And if it is silly conjecture then call it silly and mock it.
magic impregnating light beams, people rising from the dead, talking snakes... RIGHT:D
Its a noble hobby.

strobe · 10-03-2011 12:23PM

To the OP, I prefer most of the fairy tales to the bible stories. The stories themselves in the bible are pretty good but the writing itself is atrocious for the most part.

Fairy tales -vs- The Bible

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