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Pubic sector reform. Finally.

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Personally I've not been impressed in working with the unions. They've often prevent improvements in processes where I've worked, like retaining paper work where its not needed, or prevent people from doing multiple jobs, where it makes no sense to split them between different people. Or unions not approving systems, when they have no one qualified to do so.

    On the flip side they've prevent management from breaking agreements and messing with peoples lives for no good reason other than to play manager.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    orourkeda wrote: »
    All civil servants are not lazy or overpaid despite the public perception. Some of them work hard for what they earn.
    Thats the problem, some of them. I am not blaming the public sector staff. Their are Public Sector employees in my house and i have applied for a Public Sector job before. Half the management need to go and the remaining half need to manage so all of them are working hard.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I like my pubes the way they are, thank you very much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    I like my pubes the way they are, thank you very much.

    Shaven, not stirred?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    BostonB wrote: »
    Personally I've not been impressed in working with the unions. They've often prevent improvements in processes where I've worked, like retaining paper work where its not needed, or prevent people from doing multiple jobs, where it makes no sense to split them between different people. Or unions not approving systems, when they have no one qualified to do so.

    On the flip side they've prevent management from breaking agreements and messing with peoples lives for no good reason other than to play manager.

    Unions are fine when they are doing their jobs properly.

    It's the fecky stuff that annoys people.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Thats the problem, some of them. I am not blaming the public sector staff. Their are Public Sector employees in my house and i have applied for a Public Sector job before. Half the management need to go and the remaining half need to manage so all of them are working hard.

    Which begs the question, why are they there and who put them there?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    BizzyC wrote: »
    labour in charge of public sector.....unions will be running the country now...

    I tried to warn the electorate several times that a vote for labour was a vote for the unions, and I was laughed at and jeered. Well who's laughing now eh. You know, I'm not much on speeches, but its so gratifying to......leave you wallowing in the mess you've made. You're screwed, thank you, bye...



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    Wow.

    That is all I can say. Jokes are wasted of some of you. Clearly you're the cream of the Privates sector.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭thomasj


    mathie wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0308/1224291591888.html

    With the finance portfolio being split into two component parts, it is expected that Fine Gael’s Michael Noonan will become minister for finance and Labour’s Joan Burton will become the minister with responsibility for expenditure and pubic sector reform.

    STEPHEN COLLINS and HARRY McGEE

    Legends.

    Dear oh dear! what a blunder to make!

    And its on the front page of the times! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭mathie


    Wow.

    That is all I can say. Jokes are wasted of some of you. Clearly you're the cream of the Privates sector.

    Jokes?! No time for jokes.
    Rabble.
    Public sector.
    Rabble.
    Private sector.
    Moo. Moo. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    thomasj wrote: »
    Dear oh dear! what a blunder to make!

    And its on the front page of the times! :D

    Are you referring to front page of their website or the print edition?
    What a cock up!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Its on both! :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    thomasj wrote: »
    Its on both! :)

    Double balls up!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    thomasj wrote: »
    Its on both! :)

    Someone's going to get a bollicking when they cum into the office this morning.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    jester77 wrote: »
    Someone's going to get a bollicking when they cum into the office this morning.
    Surely the editor reads the front page before approving it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    Just the thought of her horrible whiny voice babbling on about reform is making me feel nauseous.

    Seriously you people will never be pleased with whoever is in her position,we just had a general election maybe its time to be just a bit optimistic about the future.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Nothing will change, this is all political spin.

    Only at the weekend Enda Kenny backtracked on the number of Public Servant roles he was going to chop and FG openly admitted that they are going to have to follow FF's 4 year plan to a "t".

    There's no real change, it's same shìt different day but with a different spin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Surely the editor reads the front page before approving it.

    Doesn't look like it :D Probably just ran it though a spell checker.

    But then again, with the way Irish politics have been run over the previous years it wouldn't surprise me if there now was a ministerial position for pubic sector reform. Great way to get more people interested in politics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Nothing will change, this is all political spin.

    Only at the weekend Enda Kenny backtracked on the number of Public Servant roles he was going to chop and FG openly admitted that they are going to have to follow FF's 4 year plan to a "t".

    There's no real change, it's same shìt different day but with a different spin.

    4 years is enough time for FG to completely discredit themselves and for FF to enter power again.

    You have to hand it to FF, it is almost as if they planned it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Here's your change:
    The Fine Gael/Labour coalition Government is to implement in detail the outgoing Government's four-year austerity plan as approved by the EU-IMF, the Sunday Independent can reveal.
    In what will amount to the most barefaced breach of election promises ever perpetrated by an incoming Government, the coalition partners' programme for government will cause uproar when it is published today.
    While an attempt will be made to dress up the programme as a new plan by a new Government, when it is analysed it will be seen for what it is -- the continuation of the economic policies of Fianna Fail and the Greens, virtually in minute detail, as laid down by the EU-IMF.
    If anything, Fine Gael will be seen to have capitulated more as it is handing over responsibility for reform of the public sector to Labour, whose core support is drawn from the public sector.
    The programme envisages no more than 22,000 voluntary redundancies in the public sector, a long way short of Fine Gael's election promise to reduce the numbers employed by 30,000.
    Fine Gael is expected to defend this U-turn by stating that 2,500 voluntary redundancies have already taken place in the public sector since January 2010.
    However, the Fine Gael decision to hand reform of the public sector to Labour will provoke fury among many Fine Gael TDs, and cause uproar among the huge numbers who voted for Fine Gael.
    Furthermore, it reduces the Government's chances of re-negotiating the EU-IMF bailout since our public spending excess is seen as a chronic problem in Europe.
    The new Government will place heavy emphasis on its intention to renegotiate the bailout plan, as imposed on the outgoing Government, but the possibility of such a renegotiation is at least two, maybe three years away.
    The omens are not good in this regard as the incoming Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, has already prepared the ground to pull back from his demand for "haircuts" on senior bank debt, saying other ways must be found to cut the cost of Ireland's bank bailout if losses are not imposed on bondholders.
    "There is no way we are going to survive as a country unless we successfully renegotiate the EU-IMF deal," a senior Fine Gael source, familiar with the negotiations to form a Government, told the Sunday Independent yesterday.
    The new Government will cite briefings on the dire state of the economy, and the banks to explain its decision to slip into the straitjacket imposed by the EU-IMF, just vacated by Fianna Fail and the Greens.
    Yesterday, however, a well-placed Fine Gael source did not even attempt to disguise the fact that the new programme for government represents a rip-off of the outgoing Government's four-year plan as signed off on by the EU-IMF.
    "Yes, we are going to have to stick with the four-year plan, at least for two or three years, and maybe even go further and deeper than the austerity measures envisaged in that plan," he said. "There is no getting away from that. I cannot deny it.
    "The country is banjaxed, worse than we ever imagined. We have no choice."
    In effect, the programme for government negotiated between Fine Gael and Labour will represent a middle-ground compromise on the respective election promises of FG and Labour, particularly in relation to the economy.
    However, Fine Gael has ceded to Labour the issue of reform of the public sector, which is certain to anger the hundreds of thousands of private sector workers who voted for Fine Gael in the General Election.
    An analysis of voting patterns carried out by the Sunday Independent reveals that only 16 per cent of Fine Gael voters gave their second preference to Labour candidates, while Labour transfers to Fine Gael amounted to just 35 per cent.
    The analysis, therefore, shows that Fine Gael voters made it clear that they were not supporting a Fine Gael/Labour coalition; while there was greater Labour support for this form of Government, a majority of Labour voters did not favour coalition with Fine Gael either.
    In the Sunday Independent today, Independent TD Shane Ross, who had offered up to eight Independent TDs to support a minority Fine Gael Government, writes: "These guys fell into each other's arms months ago.
    "Any observer of the camaraderie in Leinster House over the years knows that their 14 years in the political wilderness of opposition have united them in one common mission: power. To hell with policy, it is time to divide the spoils. Spoils first, policy later."
    However, it is the specifics of policy, as contained in the programme for government, which are now certain to provoke the anger of the electorate.
    In the election campaign, Fine Gael promised to reduce numbers working in the public sector by 30,000, through a scheme of voluntary redundancy, under the Croke Park deal. But Labour said a voluntary reduction of the order of 18,000 would suffice.
    The Sunday Independent has learned that the new government programme commits to reducing employment in the public sector by, at most, 22,000 through the Croke Park deal, a concession by Fine Gael which represents a huge victory for Labour.
    Yesterday, a senior Fine Gael TD who is not party to the negotiations said: "If we hand over the public sector to Labour the game is up, we will be finished before we start. It is one of the most central issues, if not the main issue. This will lead to deep divisions in Fine Gael."
    Another Fine Gael TD told the Sunday Independent: "Already today I have had two businessmen on to me about this. If Fine Gael lets Labour have the public sector, it's over for us, game, set and match."
    The Sunday Independent understands that the new government will embark on a programme of the sale of non-strategic state assets, ostensibly to provide for a job stimulus package as promised by Fine Gael in the election campaign.
    However, there is growing concern within Fine Gael that the sale of semi-states will take place to spare greater savings in the public sector.
    In relation to the economy, both Fine Gael and Labour have compromised their election promises to, in effect, bring them closer to the commitments of Fianna Fail's four-year plan.
    For example, the new programme for government commits to reducing the national deficit to three per cent of Gross Domestic Product by 2015: in the election campaign, Fine Gael said its aim was to reduce the deficit by 2014 and Labour said by 2016.
    Fine Gael will claim victory insofar as the new programme commits to no new or increased taxes on work, not even on those who earn in excess of €100,000 a year, as proposed by Labour during the election.
    However, a raft of stealth taxes will be contained in the government programme, such as water charges and property taxes. Other, more obscure stealth taxes are also expected.
    It is also understood that Fas is to be abolished and its functions absorbed into the workings of the Department of Social Protection.
    The issue of public sector reform will move centre stage when the new Government is in power. The credibility of Fine Gael and Labour on this issue, however, will be damaged by a decision not to cut the number of ministers of state.
    While the new government programme contains a range of proposed political reforms, the Sunday Independent understands that all 14 junior ministers are to be retained.
    Further briefings indicate the possible make-up of the Cabinet: the Fine Gael contingent will include Enda Kenny (Taoiseach); James Reilly (Health); Phil Hogan (Environment); Alan Shatter (Attorney-General or Justice); Richard Bruton, Michael Noonan, Leo Varadkar; Simon Coveney; and Frances Fitzgerald. Sean Barrett is expected to be made Ceann Comhairle.
    The Labour contingent will include Eamon Gilmore; Joan Burton; Brendan Howlin; Ruairi Quinn; and Pat Rabbitte. The Labour portfolios will include a new department for public sector reform; and Foreign Affairs, Enterprise & Employment and Education. It is expected Labour will also have a 'super-junior' minister at Cabinet, either Jan O'Sullivan from Limerick or Sean Sherlock from Cork.
    The Fine Gael parliamentary party is to discuss the programme for government tomorrow; the programme will also go before a Labour special delegate conference in Dublin today.
    Shortly before 10pm last night, Fine Gael's chief negotiator Phil Hogan emerged from the talks to say that the parties would reach a deal by the end of the night. He said that there were just "three or four policy issues" remaining to be sorted out, and added that the shape of the Government -- meaning the dividing out of the ministers' portfolios -- had yet to be agreed upon.
    Sources close to the talks said that negotiations were prolonged into the early hours because Mr Gilmore was demanding six full ministers at Cabinet table -- while Mr Kenny was adamant that Labour could only have five, plus one "super junior".

    Source.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Is that because FF did such a stunning job f*cking it up in the first place?

    no its because they pander to the unions and won't have the balls to break them and force the redundancys that are necessary to actually save the country


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    drdeadlift wrote: »
    Seriously you people will never be pleased with whoever is in her position,we just had a general election maybe its time to be just a bit optimistic about the future.

    Id be pleased with a fine gael member in her position, you know the party that got the majority of the votes and seats and I would be pleased with labour getting a few of the less important ministries and having a say in what happens

    but im not happy giving a LABOUR party control of cutting costs when cutting those costs is going to require the redundancy of a large number of people, they just dont have the will to do it and will make up excuse and excuse and alternative after alternative and we will have the same ****ty inefficient public sector we have right now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭yrwhu8jxtni06a


    Another reason for reform- http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fingerprint-system-that-cost-euro20m-lying-idle-2439421.html
    The Automated Fingerprint Integrated System (AFIS) was announced in 2005 and €18m was initially set aside for its installation by 2006. It is in place in the Garda National Bureau of Immigration (GNBI) offices in Burgh Quay in Dublin city centre and has cost a considerable amount of extra money to keep it operational even though it has never been used.
    Civilian staff hired by the garda were expected to use the system but the 50 staff at the GNIB headquarters, who are members of the Civil and Public Service Union (CPSU), have refused to operate it, saying it is inappropriate for clerical staff to do a job that gardai should do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    Id be pleased with a fine gael member in her position, you know the party that got the majority of the votes and seats and I would be pleased with labour getting a few of the less important ministries and having a say in what happens

    but im not happy giving a LABOUR party control of cutting costs when cutting those costs is going to require the redundancy of a large number of people, they just dont have the will to do it and will make up excuse and excuse and alternative after alternative and we will have the same ****ty inefficient public sector we have right now

    Lets give it a bit of time and see what happens.One thing was sure ff weren't doing sweet fck all about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    I can't see people taking this lying down. The average voter voted for change and then this happens. People have voted democratically and yet they are being fed the same medicine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭thomasj


    What we need is to get a more efficient public sector at a smaller cost. Not one hacked to bits that effects productivity. Joan is a hard worker I trust her to do it!

    Now our banking sector is a mess! Their issues now have us having to pay back a multi billion loan to the IMf we need a minister to deal with the banking issue


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    Public sector with exceptions in some frontline areas always attracted the lazier/slacker/self entitled elements of society. Theres no accountability in public sector so why should a lazy person push themselves as they wont be sacked for underperformance or rewarded for exceptional performance.
    Of course a doctor in A&E cant slack or people die, but a high paid civil servant in some department can take piss, work bare minimum hours with loads of tea breaks etc and not face any sanction! Its a joke.
    I dont begrudge the truly hard working people in public sector their wages/pensions but its the bottom 25% that take the piss , underperform, clockwatch, waste time etc etc that annoy everyone. If the good workers insisted on kicking these types out they would have a much better work environment and the public would hold the services in much higher esteem.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    All we need to do is apply private sector principals to the public sector and all our problems will be solved! There are many high profile private sector managers out there at a loose end (why i dont know!) who's expertise could be tapped into to drive this reform, isnt that former private sector great Seanie fitzpatrick available! Oh ya the private sector are some fcuking example in this country alright!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    no its because they pander to the unions and won't have the balls to break them and force the redundancys that are necessary to actually save the country

    Then why dont FG do it. They're the "senior partner". If Leo Varadkar is anything to go by FG will\should have no truck laying into the public service.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    i'm of the opinion this is a total and utter disgrace. the people voted for FG and then they go and give probably the most important aspects of financial reform to the one party totally unsuited to it. she's 'public sector reform AND spending'...this means a Labour representative in change of all aspects of domestic spending from social welfare to public sector cuts...

    this is the same Labour party who's support base is made up mainly of people who want to protect both the public sector and social welfare.

    if labour want to go the way of the greens - they can do what needs to be done...but they wont want that so the great irish gravy train keeps on rolling.

    this f'uckin country sometimes...


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