A world without money

Cybertron85 · 01-03-2011 03:08AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyeWRd7ZEBs

RussellTuring · 01-03-2011 03:09AM

Cybertron85 wrote: »

You remind me what a great track that Pink Floyd was, thumbs up

Had to be done.

OP, do you mean a world without money or one without capitalism? The two are related but different. I don't think money will ever be made obsolete as long as we still employ capitalism. While the nature of money will indeed change in the future, whether it be entirely in some electronic form or possibly some other we're yet to utilise, it will still have many of the same characteristics.

So I imagine the world would be quite different in some respects, with a large number of professions no longer of value, but will no doubt have others yet to be imagined to make up for them. People would still go to school/college/work/the pub, but would just do it for some other kind of abstract reward. Like fame, glory, fulfillment or fun.

Trog · 01-03-2011 03:10AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pywqe01iOU

Stretching it?

Trog · 01-03-2011 03:12AM

RussellTuring wrote: »

People would still go to school/college/work/the pub, but would just do it for some other kind of abstract reward. Like fame, glory, fulfillment or fun.

I'd imagine a system where anyone who doesn't work gets 'Dickhead' tattoo'd onto their forehead would do the trick...

Cybertron85 · 01-03-2011 03:12AM

Haha, absolutely grasping at straws now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKQcWEXSKU

Trog · 01-03-2011 03:17AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtyhWo8qngk

s3129 · 01-03-2011 03:20AM

You wouldn't have the satisfaction of saving up to get something you really want and then buying it an looking at it thinking I worked my ass off for that, go me

RussellTuring · 01-03-2011 03:22AM

Trog wrote: »

I'd imagine a system where anyone who doesn't work gets 'Dickhead' tattoo'd onto their forehead would do the trick...

When the Revolution comes, I'm nominating you for the position of Artist at the Ministry of Tattoos.

digme · 01-03-2011 03:28AM

maybe you should rephrase your post to a world without usury.

Trog · 01-03-2011 03:28AM

This is off topic, but is your username an amalgamation of Bertrand Russell and Alan Turing? If so, I'm impressed.

I also demand a massive ministerial pension... AH ****e... there's no cash in this system...

RussellTuring · 01-03-2011 03:32AM

Trog wrote: »

This is off topic, but is your username an amalgamation of Bertrand Russell and Alan Turing? If so, I'm impressed.

It is indeed.

I also demand a massive ministerial pension... AH ****e... there's no cash in this system...

It's fine. Your pension consists of all the tattoos you want for the rest of your life.

And strippers.

Trog · 01-03-2011 03:36AM

RussellTuring wrote: »

It is indeed.

I'm impressed.

It's fine. Your pension consists of all the tattoos you want for the rest of your life.

And strippers.

Strippers eh? You've got yourself a deal.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-03-2011 03:39AM

A world without banknotes or coins would be like South Korea where you can use your mobile phone to pay for small purchases and cards for bigger ones.

digme · 01-03-2011 03:41AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

A world without banknotes or coins would be like South Korea where you can use your mobile phone to pay for small purchases and cards for bigger ones.

he's not on about the actual implementation of it :P

RussellTuring · 01-03-2011 03:42AM

Trog wrote: »

I'm impressed.

Strippers eh? You've got yourself a deal.

Brilliant. We just have to sort out the financing for the Revolution.

Turpentine · 01-03-2011 06:53AM

investment wrote: »

What would the world be like if there was no money??

Absolutely nothing would change. There would just be another system of thanks. That's all money is.

"Thanks for that haircut, you can have the trotters off this pig when it's slaughtered but you'll have to wait til then"

The Agogo · 01-03-2011 10:02AM

Turpentine wrote: »

Absolutely nothing would change. There would just be another system of thanks. That's all money is.

"Thanks for that haircut, you can have the trotters off this pig when it's slaughtered but you'll have to wait til then"

Only then will be truly see the thanks-whore:D

Amhran Nua · 01-03-2011 01:36PM

RussellTuring wrote: »

People would still go to school/college/work/the pub, but would just do it for some other kind of abstract reward. Like fame, glory, fulfillment or fun.

Or to avoid being sent to a Siberian concentration camp, eh comrade? :pac:

RussellTuring · 01-03-2011 02:31PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Or to avoid being sent to a Siberian concentration camp, eh comrade? :pac:

If we were to live in Stalin's Russia, Comrade.

RichieC · 01-03-2011 02:40PM

Money's a fine idea, the way the system is designed to funnel the wealth into fewer and fewer hands is not, eventually is will be reset, amicably or not so much. The more likely is the latter.

Amhran Nua · 01-03-2011 03:07PM

RussellTuring wrote: »

If we were to live in Stalin's Russia, Comrade.

We will be if you lot have your way, comrade. Thats the problem with commies, they have no understanding of context. Marx's theories do not work. Mathematically, they don't. Quite possibly he himself was aware of that. What he was trying to do was overthrow a cabal of extremely nasty pieces of work, and probably the only way to do so was through violence and some wild and hairy handwaving about future utopias. He succeeded. That time is gone now however, move on to bigger and better things.

ScumLord · 01-03-2011 03:13PM

The Zeitgeist proposal I can see working for manufacturing things. It's gotten to the point where we could have robots making most things for us but I don't know how it would work when it comes to services, art and delegation of expertise.

RussellTuring · 01-03-2011 03:47PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

We will be if you lot have your way, comrade. Thats the problem with commies, they have no understanding of context. Marx's theories do not work. Mathematically, they don't. Quite possibly he himself was aware of that. What he was trying to do was overthrow a cabal of extremely nasty pieces of work, and probably the only way to do so was through violence and some wild and hairy handwaving about future utopias. He succeeded. That time is gone now however, move on to bigger and better things.

What way? When did I say I was a state communist? Get your facts straight instead of making assumptions about the political opinions of people you don't know.

RichieC · 01-03-2011 04:22PM

ScumLord wrote: »

The Zeitgeist proposal I can see working for manufacturing things. It's gotten to the point where we could have robots making most things for us but I don't know how it would work when it comes to services, art and delegation of expertise.

Art, obviously will remain a human endeavour, but a quick look around the internet and I found a fully automated restaurant in Germany, so it is possible.

Well will always need leaders though, and human technicians, unless we invent computer leaders that scientifically delegate workloads, personnel, projects and can fix and build themselves

all very star trek, Remove the inequality that's inherent in the system, patch up the psychological problems the corporations have saddled us with through 80 years of mind altering advertising leading to greed, social isolation and rampant materialism, and we wont have to take it quite as far as the zeitgeist movement propose. No meager job, most people think it's quite natural by now and how it should be.

Also, we need leaders with the balls to stand up and start talking about the overpopulation problem.

Amhran Nua · 01-03-2011 04:51PM

RussellTuring wrote: »

What way? When did I say I was a state communist? Get your facts straight instead of making assumptions about the political opinions of people you don't know.

Haha, and then we get to the many sects of communism, each quick to deny the sins of the others until they get the chance to commit their own purges, it really is a religion.

It doesn't matter if you're a state communist, an orthodox Marxist, a Marxist-Leninist, a Stalinist, a Trotskyist, a Maoist, a Hoxhaist, a Titoist, a Eurocommunist, a Council communist, a Luxemburgist, a Prachanda Pathist, an Anarcho-communist, or a Christian communist. The underlying theory is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Is this sinking in here?

That's not to say untramelled capitalism has any future either, that leads directly to aristocracies and similar foolishness. A little from column A, a little from column B, that's the best route.

Sofaspud · 01-03-2011 05:07PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdLyacovV2A

ScumLord · 01-03-2011 06:27PM

RichieC wrote: »

Art, obviously will remain a human endeavour, but a quick look around the internet and I found a fully automated restaurant in Germany, so it is possible.

The problem as I see it with that set up is it's fine as a food dispensary but as a social place where you can experience great food by a great chief it's terrible. People like cooking for other people but it's hard work, I could see a group coming together and the cooking enthusiast of the group doing the cooking. They would need a public space in which to do it but that wouldn't be a problem either. But what if you don't have a friend that isn't a great cook? Good food made by an "artist" could be something you'll never even have the opportunity to experience.

Then of course if there is someone who's really good, people are going to want to eat their food, what if two people want his expertise? How does he decide who to go with?

I think in the main people having the opportunity to learn more will mean we have way more experts on hand but dealing out that expertise could prove problematic in the beginning..

Also, we need leaders with the balls to stand up and start talking about the overpopulation problem.

I don't know that over population is the major problem that it's made out to be what with the chronic waste we have at the moment.

bnt · 01-03-2011 10:12PM

There's also the idea of "social capital" or the "reputation economy". Author Cory Doctorow introduced "whuffie" in his book Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom: you build it up by doing good deeds, and can exchange it for goods and services. Anyone can see your "balance", of course, for it to work.

Unfortunately, the reality is: no romance without finance. :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XecTPWJu0wk

Capt'n Midnight · 02-03-2011 02:00AM

digme wrote: »

he's not on about the actual implementation of it :P

If we had unlimited energy and replicators then we wouldn't need to trade with other people for goods but we will still need to trade for services. Without money we'd have to resort to some form of barter and we'd just reinvent a form of currency again

RussellTuring · 02-03-2011 04:08AM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Haha, and then we get to the many sects of communism, each quick to deny the sins of the others until they get the chance to commit their own purges, it really is a religion.

It doesn't matter if you're a state communist, an orthodox Marxist, a Marxist-Leninist, a Stalinist, a Trotskyist, a Maoist, a Hoxhaist, a Titoist, a Eurocommunist, a Council communist, a Luxemburgist, a Prachanda Pathist, an Anarcho-communist, or a Christian communist. The underlying theory is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Is this sinking in here?

That's not to say untramelled capitalism has any future either, that leads directly to aristocracies and similar foolishness. A little from column A, a little from column B, that's the best route.

That's all very nice but can you show me what exactly is wrong with my belief that people are not always motivated by money? And why the absence of this magical invention is the reason for gulags, instead of other things such as egomaniacs seizing power and being so far removed from reality as to no longer see others as human beings? What is the unique property of money that when removed, causes such horror?

By the way, I think money is a wonderful invention and think it's a very convenient tool for running an economy. I was merely answering the OP who specifically asked what the world would be like without it.

A world without money

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