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Would you consider this racist/offensive towards Irish people?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭conti


    Don't let yourself be offended by things like this or you'll eventually turn into one of those people who sits at home with Joe Duffy's number on speed-dial just waiting to be offended.

    I'll bet Dara O'Brian found it funny, and so would anyone else with a sense of humour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Downlinz wrote: »
    Don't you think its a bit offensive that they'd carry a stereotype like that in this day and age for it to need overturning?

    Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I can't imagine the same kind of "ah sure its only a joke" if he was joking about a black guy doing some kind of slavery for him. :rolleyes:

    Comedians would probably suffer the wrath of the tabloids if they made that joke in the UK, but check out Bill Maher's show Real Time on HBO in the US. Almost every week he makes several black jokes, whether they're about his guests, Obama, some minister, whoever. Pretty sure he's throw out the old "fried chicken and watermelon" gags a few times. Plenty of gay jokes too.

    As long as they're taken in the spirit intended, and in the right context, then anything can be a joke and people can fvck off if they're offended.

    I didn't find the Jack Dee jokes at all offensive, no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    What Key opens every lock? A Pi-key!

    geddit?

    So Jack Dee is not only anti-Irish he is Pikeyist. Why if I could only summon up enough energy to give a damn.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Dave! wrote: »
    Comedians would probably suffer the wrath of the tabloids if they made that joke in the UK, but check out Bill Maher's show Real Time on HBO in the US. Almost every week he makes several black jokes, whether they're about his guests, Obama, some minister, whoever. Pretty sure he's throw out the old "fried chicken and watermelon" gags a few times. Plenty of gay jokes too.

    As long as they're taken in the spirit intended, and in the right context, then anything can be a joke and people can fvck off if they're offended.

    I didn't find the Jack Dee jokes at all offensive, no.

    Difference is that it's made with the person there. I'm sure if they get offended they'll say so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    It doesn't offend me at all.

    But what does offend me are people who find this racist...it is not ****ing racist, it's comedy.


    (or should that be 'comedy' - it is Jack Dee afterall)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Those who got offended should probably be grateful that it wasnt Frankie Boyle


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Difference is that it's made with the person there. I'm sure if they get offended they'll say so.
    No it's not always said with the person there. He makes general black, gay, etc., jokes in his monologue all the time. Even if they were offended (though he generally only invites on people with a bit of a sense of humour), I don't they'd kick up a fuss.

    The way I see it, jokes of this nature only become sinister if they're accompanied by genuine malintent or if the comedian actually believes the sentiment they're expressing.

    I make all sorts of offensive jokes in a certain context, but if I'm being serious then I obviously don't believe the stuff I'm saying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Dave! wrote: »
    No it's not always said with the person there. He makes general black, gay, etc., jokes in his monologue all the time. Even if they were offended (though he generally only invites on people with a bit of a sense of humour), I don't they'd kick up a fuss.

    The way I see it, jokes of this nature only become sinister if they're accompanied by genuine malintent or if the comedian actually believes the sentiment they're expressing.

    I make all sorts of offensive jokes in a certain context, but if I'm being serious then I obviously don't believe the stuff I'm saying.

    Yeah but try to see it this way: You're an American, doing a live comedy show that will be either shown on TV or released on DVD. Now, you're a white guy and are quite well aware that they're are very different minorites in your country. A black comedian is on, you come out after and say something about him not really working here, he;s just here to rob the place. That's a bit sketchy and very risky. But when you know for a fact that people that could get offended by it will see/hear it, then you're just trying to be offensive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Yeah but try to see it this way: You're an American, doing a live comedy show that will be either shown on TV or released on DVD. Now, you're a white guy and are quite well aware that they're are very different minorites in your country. A black comedian is on, you come out after and say something about him not really working here, he;s just here to rob the place. That's a bit sketchy and very risky. But when you know for a fact that people that could get offended by it will see/hear it, then you're just trying to be offensive.
    Depends how it's phrased really, but that could be a funny joke IMO, as long as it's tongue in cheek.

    A recent example that is probably over the line is on Top Gear recently when Richard Hammond made a gag about a Mexican-made car exhibiting the characteristics of its country of manufacture... lazy, smelly, sweaty, etc. In and of itself it's a bit risky, but he went on and made another 2 or 3 jokes of the same nature, and it appeared to me that he did harbour some opinions about Mexicans. Or maybe I just misread it.

    Regardless, there's a way to do it, and context matters. Offense for the sake of offense is pointless and not funny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    No way it's funny stuff. It's all done in good spirit and more like a bit of banter. As an Irish person I love hearing jokes about us, might be a bit of an ego thing or something.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Dave! wrote: »
    Depends how it's phrased really, but that could be a funny joke IMO, as long as it's tongue in cheek.

    A recent example that is probably over the line is on Top Gear recently when Richard Hammond made a gag about a Mexican-made car exhibiting the characteristics of its country of manufacture... lazy, smelly, sweaty, etc. In and of itself it's a bit risky, but he went on and made another 2 or 3 jokes of the same nature, and it appeared to me that he did harbour some opinions about Mexicans. Or maybe I just misread it.

    Regardless, there's a way to do it, and context matters. Offense for the sake of offense is pointless and not funny.

    And in this case he was just being offensive because he knew (having a mostly English audience) that he would get a cheap laugh. It wasn't even funny; maybe I find Jack Dee to be a completely horrible comedian but he should have a bit more decency about him. But it's just blantly offensive. He could have just ripped on Dara but no, he had to go further to hammer in the offensiveness.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    ElectraX wrote: »
    Nah, wouldn't be offended by that at all. It's the nature of comedy, I'm sure if a Scottish or Welsh comedian had just walked off the stage, he'd have some stereotypical jokes about them lined up too.

    Welsh are sheep shaggers and the scots are mean.

    In other news french like cheese and surrendering and americans are fat and stupid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Yeah but try to see it this way: You're an American, doing a live comedy show that will be either shown on TV or released on DVD. Now, you're a white guy and are quite well aware that they're are very different minorites in your country. A black comedian is on, you come out after and say something about him not really working here, he;s just here to rob the place. That's a bit sketchy and very risky. But when you know for a fact that people that could get offended by it will see/hear it, then you're just trying to be offensive.
    There seems to be a lot more race related jokes these days, I think it's a lash back at political correctness. Daniel Tosh is a US comedian that's always making racist jokes he kind of has a character as an uptight racist upper class white guy and gets away with saying every racist stereotype going.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    ScumLord wrote: »
    There seems to be a lot more race related jokes these days, I think it's a lash back at political correctness. Daniel Tosh is a US comedian that's always making racist jokes he kind of has a character as an uptight racist upper class white guy and gets away with saying every racist stereotype going.

    There's a big difference (IMO) between a black comedian saying something like "I saw Dara try to dance, he's got horrible ryhtm even for a white guy" would make me laugh. But if the same guy made fun of white people as a race then it would be offensive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    There's a big difference (IMO) between a black comedian saying something like "I saw Dara try to dance, he's got horrible ryhtm even for a white guy" would make me laugh. But if the same guy made fun of white people as a race then it would be offensive.
    Black comedians do that all the time. People and cultures are different, that's a fact. It's not racist to poke fun at those differences.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Black comedians do that all the time. People and cultures are different, that's a fact. It's not racist to poke fun at those differences.

    Actually, yes it is racist. But that's neither here nor there. The point is I feel that he made those jokes about the Irish people as a people, using Dara as a jump off point which is just horrible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    No i don't find it offensive. Also jack dee is a sh!t comedian. His grumpy asshole act is tired.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Actually, yes it is racist.
    So if a German friend makes a joke about Irish drinking habits I can't laugh I'm supposed to be offended?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    ScumLord wrote: »
    So if a German friend makes a joke about Irish drinking habits I can't laugh I'm supposed to be offended?

    Uh... if your German friend is of another race and making a racist joke against you (assuming you're another race) then no you shoul;dn't laugh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    Richard Pryor took the absolute piss out of white people; How we talk, walk, act, etc. I wasn't offended as he was damn well funny doing it and meant no malice in them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Uh... if your German friend is of another race and making a racist joke against you (assuming you're another race) then no you shoul;dn't laugh.
    What if I think it's funny? Should I leave the room so nobody can see me laughing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 409 ✭✭lecker Hendl


    Funny how people say Jack Dee is racist. Dara O' Brian was probably on before him doing his whole diddly aye thing, ripping the piss out of us too. He's a comedian for crying out loud. Take it with a pinch of salt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Will


    I think this video from Steve Hughes answers this thread quite well. NSFW language.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    I am not so much offended by Jack Dee's Irish jokes as the standard by which opposition to stuff that isn't politically correct is applied

    if an irish comedian made a gag about immigrants being welfare chasers, this thread would be 20 pages by now and the bleeding heart liberals would be out in force (whether their apoplexy is justified or not is another issue)

    They are not out in force on this issue, that they pick and choose when best to display how appalled they are is interesting to me as quite obviously the standard for political correctness is not applied equally, if men or the Irish in general are made fun of, there is usually little or no outcry

    On the other hand if women or non-white ethnic groups are joked about, there will usually be a stampede of people rushing to their defense for any number of reasons ranging from being burdened with a kind of middle-class guilt for the crimes of their ancestors to trying to develop a hero complex and rescuing the poor subjugated downtrodden group.

    The reasons why some groups get more support than others is mainly down to the media of that age and what they class as being trendy or fashionable in terms of worthy of defense, therefore cases for that particular group will be highlighted more and that imbalance in coverage will give weight to the myth that that group suffers more....usually this decision is based on which group has most recently in time been oppressed or had legal impediment blocking its progress (even if these cases were evident in areas outside of where the moral outrage occurs or indeed when these cases continue to be apparent elsewhere)

    basically some groups are viewed as fair game whereas others are not in spite of the fact that both these groups may have the same rights and privileges today

    history, the media and societal norms mean we can laugh and make fun of person x and not of person y...this is evolving all the time though.

    for example, if jack dee made those comments 15 years ago, I believe there would have been far more of an outrage, then Ireland developed more confidence as a nation, the economy boomed, we went through the Celtic Tiger era, we became wealthier and more confident, we were no longer perceived as the insecure, backward little nation and we developed the skill of being able to laugh at ourselves

    some groups still cannot do that, it is a sign of strength when you can write off these offenses and get on with your life..........and conversely when the complaining and whinging about petty or trivial jokes about your group is too loud then it only exacerbates the sense of weakness, insecurity and fragility that surrounds your group

    I would like to think that any group (and its supporters) worth its salt will only get offended by what is worthy of getting offended about......in the modern climate the offense-chasers are everywhere and rather than actually helping out their group they are setting them back as the backlash to political correctness threatens to develop into a core value in itself


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    ScumLord wrote: »
    What if I think it's funny? Should I leave the room so nobody can see me laughing?

    Your choice. I'd personally never be friends with someone that would be fine with making a joke that offensive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Your choice. I'd personally never be friends with someone that would be fine with making a joke that offensive.
    Fairly high standards there. My friends and I are always taking the piss. I know two friends one was Irish, the other was too I don't know where exactly his family originated from looked Indian but they sent their whole time making racist jokes at each other (really racist jokes) but where the best of friends. Race wasn't an issue for them, their jokes poked fun at racism more than anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Fairly high standards there. My friends and I are always taking the piss. I know two friends one was Irish, the other was too I don't know where exactly his family originated from looked Indian but they sent their whole time making racist jokes at each other (really racist jokes) but where the best of friends. Race wasn't an issue for them, their jokes poked fun at racism more than anything.

    That's fine though. But what about when they're around Indian people and your friends starts with the racism. It's goes from friendly banter to direct racism at that stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 409 ✭✭lecker Hendl


    People are too soft these days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    If Dara didn't go back on stage to kick seven buckets of sh1t out of him, then he obviously wasn't offended.

    Of course, he'll probably get his own back by charging double for the tarmac.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    That's fine though. But what about when they're around Indian people and your friends starts with the racism. It's goes from friendly banter to direct racism at that stage.
    Why? The intention hasn't changed. How can two people fundamentally not racist in every real way become racist just because the audience changes?


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