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Ivana Bacik. A Failed Political Entity?

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    #32
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I read through her manifesto last night. She's one of the worst cases of misandry disguised as "feminism" I have ever seen.

    Until she withdraws her stance on prison sentencing, I will never, ever vote for her. Equality means equality on everything, you have to take the rough with the smooth. Her opinions on crime make me sick. If a man does it it's because men are "prone" to it. If a woman does it, it's someone else's fault, or "she had no choice".


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    #33
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Reminds me a bit of Barak Obama in terms of intellect and fluency , who I've always felt wouldn't get elected to the Dail because people wouldn't connect with him.

    :confused:


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    #34
    uberwolf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,580 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    I think it is fair to say failed. She has obviously impressed some people within the Labour party, and they keep wheeling her out into elections when I feel that another candidate would not have been given as many opportunities.

    I admire the woman, despite my strongly disagreeing with some of her positions. She at least instigates debate, but seems to my casual observation to have a very narrow focus, and that focus doesn't seem to connect with a broad enough constituency to achieve office. She has a use as a public commentator however.


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    #35
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    She's been parachuted into more places then the french foreign legion and still never elected. A classic labour nanny state merchant.


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    #36
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    feelingstressed wrote: »
    Needs to pick a constituency and stick to it.
    People don't like parachute candidates and she doesn't live in both Dublin Central and Dún Laoghaire.

    This, too.


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    #37
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    A few I as I see it. She hasn't done much for her own constitency. Most politicians become councillors get a support base and push on from there. She's running in an area against far lefty Richard boyd-barret who while being a nut job by accounts has done a lot for the local area and people. Her views are too left I think

    Examples?


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    #38
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Baron_Kunkel wrote: »
    Why does the Labour Party persist with the repeated failed strategy of putting Ivana Bacik forward as a credible political candidate? She has little or no history of achievement in business or public life outside of her academic prowess which...
    Yes, obviously she should have been going to more funerals and opening more Londis' for you to take her seriously as a politician.


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    #39
    Nolanger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭Nolanger


    Unwritten rule of Irish politics: no THIN ugly Irish women need apply!


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    #40
    Baron_Kunkel
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Baron_Kunkel


    uberwolf wrote: »
    I think it is fair to say failed. She has obviously impressed some people within the Labour party, and they keep wheeling her out into elections when I feel that another candidate would not have been given as many opportunities.

    I admire the woman, despite my strongly disagreeing with some of her positions. She at least instigates debate, but seems to my casual observation to have a very narrow focus, and that focus doesn't seem to connect with a broad enough constituency to achieve office. She has a use as a public commentator however.

    Agree entirely.


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    #41
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Examples?


    Pro abortion, not fully pro drugs but far more lax then most, female quotas(not sure if that's left though) and when I saw her on Primetime she seemed more left on economic issues for the purposes of social protection.


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    #42
    Baron_Kunkel
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Baron_Kunkel


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    Yes, obviously she should have been going to more funerals and opening more Londis' for you to take her seriously as a politician.

    I do take her seriously.....thats why I started the thread so that we could have open discussion, not just shoot down opinions with naff oneliners. If you read subsequent posts you'd realise that i addressed the parish pump issue earlier.


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    #43
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    If there had been a quota would she have gotten in ?

    Amazing how she pushes an unwanted agenda that would suit her and make up for her shortcomings.


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    #44
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Pro abortion, not fully pro drugs but far more lax then most, female quotas(not sure if that's left though)

    All of which are liberal issues, not left-wing issues. Being in favour of abortion, for instance, can easily be considered a right-wing stance.

    She's a liberal ideologue, not a left-wing ideologue. Sometimes both can cross, but her intention is to focus on individual rights above social and community protections. I have seen no evidence of her being a "left-wing" ideologue.


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    #45
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    It was the highlight of the election for me, I said 'please God don't let her get elected'. She won't mind as she is an atheist.
    I am just glad the electorate in DL decided they should show Ivana what it is like to be given the chance to live and dream about the Dáil only for her hopes to be aborted by the electorate. She won't take any offense she wants abortion legalised.
    She also wants no schools associated with a religious body, doesn't matter if they are well run, the best in the country, they shouldn't be allowed according to our Ivana, Ivana would have had all Irish people ignorant and uneducated when the British ruled here when they banned education to catholics under the penal laws, it was the church in their pastoral role that helped provide education to Catholics. What would our Ivana have done? Protested they weren't secular and have no one educated?

    Ivana may be an intellectual but not when it comes to Irish society, she has not shown she is electable and she does't know how to get elected, if I was her I would have kept some of those views quiet but the genie is out and there are other people they would rather elect, even if one finds them surprising like RBB.


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    #46
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    Yes, obviously she should have been going to more funerals and opening more Londis' for you to take her seriously as a politician.

    The fact remains that when you elect somebody to the national legislature in Ireland, in the overwhelming majority of cases they are elected for their work on local issues, not their legislative initiative or skill.

    This is wrong, and Fine Gael has promised to radically reform the electoral system, abolishing PR-STV system in the process. I, for one, will watch the development of this promise (and the abolition of the Seanad and reduction in the numbers of Dáil seats promises) very, very, very closely.


    I intend to establish a thread here on just how many of Fine Gael's promises are being fulfilled. I'm completely in favour of accountable government. I hope all the Fine Gael voters will be just as keen on such a thread.


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    #47
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    I've actually warmed to Bacik in recent times, and believe she was the brains behind Labour's constitutional convention proposal, she talks a good talk about how the country needs a constitution reflective of 21st Century Ireland, and not the 1930s throwback currently in situ.

    However i think if she can't get elected this time out in DL with the gale blowing in her favour, then she's never going to get a Dail seat. As alluded to by others, you need to be a full time representative in Irish constituencies and groom a support base, or at least have a prominent relative or other senior party member bigging you up in order to secure enough FPVs. Bacik needs to cut the Trinity apron-strings and go full time in DL if she really want's to win a seat. As a well paid academic with a young family, i can't see it happening. But on the plus side for her she's almost certainly to get a Seanad nomination.


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    #48
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Dionysus wrote: »
    The fact remains that when you elect somebody to the national legislature in Ireland, in the overwhelming majority of cases they are elected for their work on local issues, not their legislative initiative or skill.

    This is wrong, and Fine Gael has promised to radically reform the electoral system, abolishing PR-STV system in the process. I, for one, will watch the development of this promise (and the abolition of the Seanad and reduction in the numbers of Dáil seats promises) very, very, very closely.


    I intend to establish a thread here on just how many of Fine Gael's promises are being fulfilled. I'm completely in favour of accountable government. I hope all the Fine Gael voters will be just as keen on such a thread.

    What about Labour if they are in government with them?


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    #49
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I read through her manifesto last night. She's one of the worst cases of misandry disguised as "feminism" I have ever seen.

    Until she withdraws her stance on prison sentencing, I will never, ever vote for her. Equality means equality on everything, you have to take the rough with the smooth. Her opinions on crime make me sick. If a man does it it's because men are "prone" to it. If a woman does it, it's someone else's fault, or "she had no choice".

    to the likes of bacik , OFFICIAL equality only extends to PC liberal sacred cow issues , female on male violence is not a liberal sacred cow issue


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    #50
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    Dionysus wrote: »
    All of which are liberal issues, not left-wing issues. Being in favour of abortion, for instance, can easily be considered a right-wing stance.

    She's a liberal ideologue, not a left-wing ideologue. Sometimes both can cross, but her intention is to focus on individual rights above social and community protections. I have seen no evidence of her being a "left-wing" ideologue.

    bacik is a left liberal , in that shes liberal on social issues and left wing on economic issues

    despite the fact that the public for the most part dont like the woman , i suspect the labour party just cant help themselves when it comes to bacik , like many lefties , they believe society needs to be reformed by goverment and who better to do it than right thinking ivana


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    #51
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    invinciblePRSTV wrote: »
    I've actually warmed to Bacik in recent times, and believe she was the brains behind Labour's constitutional convention proposal, she talks a good talk about how the country needs a constitution reflective of 21st Century Ireland, and not the 1930s throwback currently in situ.

    However i think if she can't get elected this time out in DL with the gale blowing in her favour, then she's never going to get a Dail seat. As alluded to by others, you need to be a full time representative in Irish constituencies and groom a support base, or at least have a prominent relative or other senior party member bigging you up in order to secure enough FPVs. Bacik needs to cut the Trinity apron-strings and go full time in DL if she really want's to win a seat. As a well paid academic with a young family, i can't see it happening. But on the plus side for her she's almost certainly to get a Seanad nomination.

    I wouldn't call it the brains behind Labour's constitutional convention proposal, I posted on this forum in the Labour - abortion thread that Labour wanted a new constitution so they could remove things like the equal right to life of the mother and unborn.
    It was later said on the radio on the Marian Finucane show that this is one reason why some want a new constitution - makes sense if Ivana was behind it, people will see through it for what it is worth and if that is all Ivana can offer us then no surprise she didn't get elected.


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    #52
    Skid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,873 ✭✭✭Skid


    Baron_Kunkel wrote: »
    She ran in 2002 and didn't get a seat. she decided not to run in 2007 and went down the road of the seanad job by way of University votes and she also failed in the last European Election.

    For what it's worth she didn't stand in the 2002 General Election

    http://electionsireland.org/candidate.cfm?ID=4423


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    #53
    takun
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭takun


    Looks like I'm well outnumbered on this thread, but I am really quite sad and disappointed that she missed out.

    I don't agree with her on every issue, but I do on a lot. I've always admired her for having the courage of her convictions and see her as an honest, straightforward and strong person who would have been a great asset to the new Dail.

    That said, I can't see her ever being elected when she was not this time, although it was more due to poor vote management than anything else. She is very divisive and a lot of the time you're better of being bland and non-committal in Ireland, especially when it comes to social issues.

    But would people please stop describing her as pro-abortion - NOBODY is pro-abortion, she is pro-choice.


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    #54
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Min wrote: »
    It was the (.......)like RBB.

    Ms Bacik has a tendency to rub people the wrong way, by all accounts. Thats why she didn't get elected - nothing to do with a 'rejection' of her stance on abortion or anything else. If you think the absence of an individual from the dail is going to make a whit of a difference in regard to labour policy, you're sadly mistaken.

    You do realise that Boyd Barret is pro-choice?


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    #55
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ms Bacik has a tendency to rub people the wrong way, by all accounts. Thats why she didn't get elected - nothing to do with a 'rejection' of her stance on abortion or anything else. If you think the absence of an individual from the dail is going to make a whit of a difference in regard to labour policy, you're sadly mistaken.

    You do realise that Boyd Barret is pro-choice?

    Oh yeah, he is a communist too.


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    #56
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Min wrote: »
    Oh yeah, he is a communist too.

    There's a point to that remark, other than throwing in a red herring?

    You implied that her stance on abortion had something to do with her defeat. As the man who finished ahead of her is pro-choice, thats hardly the case.


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    #57
    The Orb
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭The Orb


    Bacik, as already stated, is an ideologue. Her politics still haven't moved beyond the student union. She reminds me of Millie Tant from Viz magazine.


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    #58
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    I agree with OP. IB has almost all the credentials that would make me vote for her - female, youngish, articulate, radical with a bit of pragmatism........
    But I can't vote for her.............she just seems to have coasted along into politics

    First off I am not a labour supporter.

    I am going to have to pull you up on the comment in bold. She hardly coasted into politics. Seah Haughey, son of Charlie Haughey, grandson of Sean Lemass, arguably coasted into politics. Mary Hanafin, Daughter of Former Senator Des Hanafin, whose father was a Fianna Fail councillor, arguably coasted into politics. I seriously doubt it was easy for Ivana Bacik, daughter of a Czech immigrant, who came to Ireland in the 1940's to get into politics.

    As for whether she is a failed politician, it depends how you define a successful one. She has only been in national politics for 6 years, so in many terms she is just starting out. I wouldn't be throwing in the towel just yet. Perhaps if she were an FG councillor and despite the FG landslide she did not get in, then you could maybe say she was a failure, but there were plenty of other labour councillors who did not get in.

    As i said I am not a Labour supporter, I just dont like one person being singled out and being called a failure. Especially considering the number of FF politicians who were elected when we had a multi-billion euro surplus, and when they left office we were in recession with a massive deficit. I cant help wondering if the reason she has been singled out is because she has a distinctive name. However, I hope thats not the reason.


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    #59
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Nodin wrote: »
    There's a point to that remark, other than throwing in a red herring?

    You implied that her stance on abortion had something to do with her defeat. As the man who finished ahead of her is pro-choice, thats hardly the case.

    Communists support the legalisation of abortion, it even encourages it in some cases.


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    #60
    jamas
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭jamas


    Bacik reminds me of our two presidents - Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese - both Reid Professors of Law at TCD, but also both very unsuccessful in terms of Dail elections. Mary R, also a campaigner on human rights and equality issues when they were very unpopular. Maybe Ivana will end up in the Park in 20 years time?


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    #61
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    She could hardly be called a failed political entity. She won election to the Seanad in '07 and came very close to a Dáil seat this time around. Some better vote management would certainly have get her across the line.

    Whatever people think about her politics, most people will agree that she's both intelligent and articulate.
    Maybe this thread should be retitled "Ivana Bacik: I disagree with her policies"


This discussion has been closed.
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